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Lam's Squad Vision
Since 1888 (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 13:07
In trying to see where we need to strengthen for next season I thought the following exercise would be useful,
Pats stated aim is to have 4 deep in every position being 1 current international (I'm calling this tier 1&2 international), one experienced Prem player, one Prem player to be (younger version) and academy.
I'm not expecting everyone to agree on positional decisions such as is Jack Lam a 6 or 7 but might be useful to track signings when announced.

Loose Head
1.Lay
2.Y.Thomas/Woolmore
3.Cosgrove
4.Rowland(A)

Tight Head
1.Afoa
2.Faletau
3.Thiede/Armstrong
4.English(A)/Dawe(A)

Hooker
1.
2.Thacker/Malton/Lindsay/Fenton-Wells
3.
4.Freeman(A)/Capon(A)

Lock 1
1.Vui
2.Joyce
3.Batley
4.Ehizode(A)

Lock 2
1.
2.Muldowney
3.Latta
4.Hawkins(A)

Blind Flanker
1.Lam
2.Jefferies
3.
4.Dun(A)

Open Flank
1.
2.Heenan
3.D.Thomas
4.Thurston(A)

No.8
1.Lautua
2.Crane
3.Haining
4.

Scrum Half
1.
2.Stirzaker
3.Uren/Cullen/Randall
4.Boyland(A)

Fly Half
1.Madigan
2.
3.Sheedy/Eden
4.

Inside Centre
1.Piatau S/Pisi
2.Hurrell
3.Bedlow(A)
4.Welsh(A)

Outside Centre
1.
2.Tovey/O’Connor
3.
4.Powell(A)

Wings
1.Leiua/Morahan
2.Edwards
3.Pincus
4.Perkins(A)/Chapman(A)/Hargan(A)

Fullback
1.Piatau C
2.Daniels
3.Protheroe
4.Hughes

Out of contract


Known Leavers
R.William - Dragons
J.Willams - Dragons
O.Robinson - Cardiff Blues
B.Searle - Wasps
Crumpton - Quins
Bevington - Dragons
Varndell - Scarlets (Loan)
Tuohy - Released - Stade Francias Short Term Contract
McMillan - Released
Nemsadze - Released - Ospreys Short Term Contract
O’Connell - Ealing Trailfinders
Lemi - ? (Sm10)
Wallace - Ealing, London Scottish or Richmond?
Gompels - Realeased
Linney - Released
Tongahuia - Bedford?
Harris-Wright - Released
Giltrow - Released
Glynn - Released
Cortes - Leicester?
Newey - Released
Palamo - Released




Quite a few gaps so hoping for some quality to come in. Any errors I've made? I'm sure there's lots of comment to be had! Ready, Steady, Go!



Edited 33 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2018 13:30 by Since 1888.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
Albertfromla (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 13:35
No Searle?

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
thorpebayexile (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 13:55
that's a very useful analysis.

If accurate, and it looks a reasonable assessment, the PL will be looking to sign international levels at 1,2,5,7 and 9. Along with good level support at 1,5,7,9,10 and 15.

Makes complete sense. He is constrained. His source of ERP internationals will be difficult, would be surprised to see anything other than maybe a 7 or 9 from there. Will be a very interesting January and February.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
M9sbh (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 14:33
If champions cup qualification so top 6 is our aim shouldn’t we be looking at how many of our established front line players would get in any current top six prem side.
The bolt ons for me:
Cortes
Jefferies
Vui
Lam
Thomas
Luatua
Madigan
Hurrell
Leiua
Morahan
Prothero

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
expectingrain (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 15:29
I would also include Piatau S on that list but exclude Cortes and Lam.
Cortes seems to be permanently injured and no performance by Lam over the last 2-3 years has been remotely top 6 Prem

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
Big Dave (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 16:19
I don't know if Protheroe would walk into a top 6 premiership side. He might be good enough but we all know the step between this league and the next is huge. He might be being flattered by weak championship defences. That is no criticism of the lad, just an observation about where he is currently plying his trade.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
Furriner (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 16:38
I don't think Thomas,Hurrell or Protheroe are 'top 6 bolt-ons'.

I'm in two minds about Cortes. He's a good old fashioned 3, and would hold his own on his day.But I do worry about his fitness/injury record.

We seem to have written Tuohy out of the script, which is a shame. I think he's a good Lock, but Messrs Lam and Co appear not to.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
EverOptimistic (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 17:05
I would definitely try to keep Tusi Pisi at centre for one more season, and hang on to Bevington and/or Tonga'uiha at Loose Head. I also think Fenton Wells has great potential as hooker so would try to keep him too.

Have loved Piatau on the wing

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
RJC (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 17:18
This is the long term vision, we're not going to get international quality players in all positions next season.

Not unless we fill them with players from the Georgian/USA/Japan/Pacific Island national sides.

However I guess we'll see over the next couple of months how busy they have been on the recruitment side.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
Since 1888 (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 17:19
Only gone for players who are here next season in the list as far as I know although Varndell might be a punt. Searle is out of contract I think.
I was surprised at how light we could look at 9 & 10. I would be really worried if Madigan got injured ala Henson last season. I would be looking to get another experienced 10 in.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
JamboBris (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 17:42
Varndell is out of contract this summrr I think.

Would personally want a top drawer 8 as jefferies is playing more at lock and luatua at 6. Lam and Thomas at 7 seems an awful lot stronger than Crane and Haining to me.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
Brizzlonian (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 20:56
Quote:
M9sbh
If champions cup qualification so top 6 is our aim shouldn’t we be looking at how many of our established front line players would get in any current top six prem side.
The bolt ons for me:
Cortes
Jefferies
Vui
Lam
Thomas
Luatua
Madigan
Hurrell
Leiua
Morahan
Prothero


That's very optimistic!

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
thorpebayexile (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 22:11
Quote:
Brizzlonian
Quote:
M9sbh
The bolt ons for me:
Cortes
Jefferies
Vui
Lam
Thomas
Luatua
Madigan
Hurrell
Leiua
Morahan
Prothero


That's very optimistic!
I think being realistic the only players in our starting xv who would be regular starters for top six sides would be:
Cortes
Luatua
Madigan
Leiua

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
inatthebreakdown (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 23:23
+ Piutau, C. surely @thorpebayexile? Also possibly Jefferies and Dan Thomas for me, within a couple of years.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
Field marshall (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 23:27
Luatua
Madigan
Leiua
Morahan

Mind you, who would have had Ben Glynn as a fairly regular starter for Quins or Genge for Tigers or JFR for saints?

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 09:37
Quote:
Since 1888
In trying to see where we need to strengthen for next season I thought the following exercise would be useful,
Pats stated aim is to have 4 deep in every position being 1 current international (I'm calling this tier 1&2 international), one experienced Prem player, one Prem player to be (younger version) and academy.
I'm not expecting everyone to agree on positional decisions such as is Jack Lam a 6 or 7 but might be useful to track signings when announced.

Loose Head
1.
2.O'Connell
3.Cosgrove
4.Dawe/Rowland

Tight Head
1.Cortes
2.Faletau?
3.Giltrow
4.Gendall/English

Hooker
1.
2.Harris-Wright
3.Crumpton
4.Gompells/Linney/Freeman

Lock 1
1.Vui
2.Joyce
3.Batley
4.Ehizode

Lock 2
1.
2.
3.Latta
4.Hawkins

Blind Flanker
1.Lam
2.Jefferies
3.
4.Dunn

Open Flank
1.
2.
3.Thomas
4.Capon/Thurston

No.8
1.Lautua
2.Crane
3.Haining
4.

Scrum Half
1.
2.
3.Uren
4.Cullen

Fly Half
1.Madigan
2.
3.Sheedy
4.

Inside Centre
1.Piatau S
2.Hurrell
3.Bedlow
4.Welsh

Outside Centre
1.Leiua
2.Tovey
3.
4.Newey

Wing 1
1.Varndell
2.Edwards
3.
4.Perkins

Wing 2
1.Morahan
2.Lemi?
3.Hargan
4.Chapman

Fullback
1.Piatau C
2.
3.Protheroe
4.Hughes

Quite a few gaps so hoping for some quality to come in. Any errors I've made? I'm sure there's lots of comment to be had! Ready, Steady, Go!

This is great work, really helps see where the gaps are.

That said, I think it's a stretch considering Tom Varndell to be of current international quality...good Prem player, but never was, or will be, of international standard.

And whilst I personally definitely agree that Ryan Edwards is a solid Prem standard wing, I don't think Pat Lam does, unfortunately!

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
grasmith (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 11:37
I agree with your comments about Varndell. Looks good when their tails are up and running in tries. Not so impressive when they have to graft, tackle back and take high balls. He has clearly got the skills and speed but there must be a question mark over some aspects of his play.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
TimothyQ (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 12:23
Quote:
thorpebayexile
Quote:
Brizzlonian
Quote:
M9sbh
The bolt ons for me:
Cortes
Jefferies
Vui
Lam
Thomas
Luatua
Madigan
Hurrell
Leiua
Morahan
Prothero


That's very optimistic!
I think being realistic the only players in our starting xv who would be regular starters for top six sides would be:
Cortes
Luatua
Madigan
Leiua

Leiua wasn't a regular starter for Wasps, and I don't think Cortes would get into many starting line-ups. I agree with Madigan and Luatua, and I think all the names mentioned would have a role to play in the squad of any premiership sides, but realistically, very few would be regular starters in the top 6.

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
Graham_U (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 13:08
Interesting list of potential squad and the debate on starters in the prem top 6. In reality would anyone other than Steve Luatua be a guaranteed starter in the top 6. Madigan wasn't in the Pro12 or Top14 teams!

When fit and based on his prem performances last season I think Gaston would would get into the majority of Prem match day squads. In a competitive pack he would be far more effective, and his work in the loose is as good as any. The worry is that currently he's the only member of our front row I think would make any prem match squad.

I think Luke Morahan is one of our best (and probably the most underrated) performers this year. He is not as eye catching as many but he is excellent at the basic, with work-rate, defence and distribution is exceptional. Again I could see him making the majority of Prem match day squads, as would Leiua. I would still like to see Luke given the freedom from 15, but he's done a great job on the wing. Unfortunately I think little Dave and Vandall are too far past their best for next season.

If Lam played as well as he did for Samoa I think he would make the list of starters, but IMHO he's rarely been at that level for Bris over the last two seasons. I would think Vui would make most match day squads. Thomas and Jefferies have shown they have the potential to get there but I think there is a lot improvement needed from the rest of the forwards.



Graham

C'mon Bris,

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/file/s100.htm?102,file=399.jpg

Stand out in a crowd, wear the Hoops!

 
Re: Lam's Squad Vision
robtheh (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 13:56
Loose Head
1.
2.Tonga'uiha
3.O'Connell
4.Cosgrove
5.Dawe/Rowland

Tight Head
1.Cortes
2.Faletau?
3.Gendall
4.Giltrow/English

Hooker
1.
2.Harris-Wright
3.Crumpton
4.Gompells/Linney/Freeman

Lock 1
1.Vui
2.Joyce
3.Batley
4.Ehizode

Lock 2
1.Jeffries
2.
3.Latta
4.Hawkins

Blind Flanker
1.Lam
2.
3.
4.Dunn

Open Flank
1.
2.
3.Thomas
4.Capon/Thurston

No.8
1.Luatua
2.Crane
3.Haining
4.

Scrum Half
1.
2.Uren
3.
4.Cullen

Fly Half
1.Madigan
2.
3.Sheedy
4.

Inside Centre
1.Piutau S
2.Hurrell
3.Bedlow
4.Welsh

Outside Centre
1.Leiua
2.
3.Tovey
4.Newey

Wing 1
1.Varndell
2.Edwards
3.
4.Perkins

Wing 2
1.Morahan
2.Lemi?
3.Hargan
4.Chapman

Fullback
1.Piutau C
2.
3.Protheroe
4.Hughes

Changes, as I see them, in bold.
Lam I think is being underrated on here. He put in some really good performances in the Prem (Quins & B*th to name two. I also think that there are some short memories here as well: Varndell did not have a great season last time out in the Championship, but massively raised his game in the Prem. I think we'll see a lot of that next year.

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