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Re: New arrivals
Rich. (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 13:47
Quote:
hooter
I think are situation this year is very different to the last time we were promoted, remember last time we were in a playoff final we didn't even win both legs to get promoted.

But look how close Ealing have run us twice, and imagine how close that might have been if the pressure of the play-offs was also involved - I'm certainly relieved on many levels that we won't have to play them in the playoffs this season.

 
Re: New arrivals
expectingrain (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 13:49
Our recruitment to date does compare well with others I agree. But the difference is they are starting with a firm Premiership squad, we are not.

 
Re: New arrivals
Motherrucker1982 (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 16:36
I agree that we are a bit light in certain areas but have faith that both those we've already confirmed, those we've already got and some of the more credible names floated about as going to sign will hold us in good stead. We all know (better than most) the gulf in class between the Champ and the Prem but we will not be able to sign a first 15 of mega stars from the off as a) we are still viewed as relegation favourites b) aren't playing champions cup (yet) and c) are restricted by th salary cap.
That being said, we just need to be clever with our recruitment - on paper (and according to the pundits) Irish were better prepared than we were last year and yet they look like their going down.
For me the main difference between this time and previous false dawns is that we seem to have a culture developing where the team comes first and those that don't follow this don't last. Secondly, we also have a defined way of playing that all players are buying into. We look like we can score from any phase and, whilst the prem defences will be a sterner test, we also seem to have different means to play against different teams. This was never anything I could have said about AR's tenure. Also, we are less pourous in defence than before and this has to be the biggest overall improvement - when we went up last time, we were allowing teams to walk through us in our promotion season which continued into our brief stay in the prem. I get the concerns but also feel we all have much more to be positive about this time and players like Shaun Malton, Afoa, Muldowney etc will be worth their weight in gold a la Regan, Cromptom, Llewelyn etc
The future is bright (I think?)
C'mon Bris!!!

 
Re: New arrivals
robtheh (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 16:49
Quote:
Motherrucker1982
I agree that we are a bit light in certain areas but have faith that both those we've already confirmed, those we've already got and some of the more credible names floated about as going to sign will hold us in good stead. We all know (better than most) the gulf in class between the Champ and the Prem but we will not be able to sign a first 15 of mega stars from the off as a) we are still viewed as relegation favourites b) aren't playing champions cup (yet) and c) are restricted by th salary cap.
That being said, we just need to be clever with our recruitment - on paper (and according to the pundits) Irish were better prepared than we were last year and yet they look like their going down.
For me the main difference between this time and previous false dawns is that we seem to have a culture developing where the team comes first and those that don't follow this don't last. Secondly, we also have a defined way of playing that all players are buying into. We look like we can score from any phase and, whilst the prem defences will be a sterner test, we also seem to have different means to play against different teams. This was never anything I could have said about AR's tenure. Also, we are less pourous in defence than before and this has to be the biggest overall improvement - when we went up last time, we were allowing teams to walk through us in our promotion season which continued into our brief stay in the prem. I get the concerns but also feel we all have much more to be positive about this time and players like Shaun Malton, Afoa, Muldowney etc will be worth their weight in gold a la Regan, Cromptom, Llewelyn etc
The future is bright (I think?)
C'mon Bris!!!

Well said!!

 
Re: New arrivals
gran (IP Logged)
01 March, 2018 17:57
Adding to the many valid observations so far, I like the growing nucleus of new Zealand talent including the Auckland raised Samoans. They seem to be committing themselves well to the club , the city and the aspirations, and for some of us with five or more decades of watching Bristol much of that time in recent years has been a period of unfulfilled potential.
Their presence can only encourage young local talent to develop with the club.
And not least, they are well up to prem standards.

 
Re: New arrivals
BigO (IP Logged)
02 March, 2018 16:28
No sign of these 7 new arrivals then.

Wondering if tomorrow will be Snowy Signed up Saturday?

At least they'd have a captive audience, with most being confined to barracks.

 
Re: New arrivals
expectingrain (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 08:23
Does anybody want to reconsider their views that with the addition of a few low key signings we will be fine in the Prem?

 
Re: New arrivals
Furriner (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 08:36
Quote:
expectingrain
Does anybody want to reconsider their views that with the addition of a few low key signings we will be fine in the Prem?

No, wed be heading for a fall (again). Im not against signing a few of the Champ players who stand out in this league because some of them will come good. But itd be a foolhardy strategy to rely on it. We definitely need a front 5 with Prem experience and top expertise

 
Re: New arrivals
AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 08:46
Yesterday wasn't about the quality of players, it was about attitude.

I don't think attitude a deep-rooted issue with this squad, and I believe it was just a case of too many players having an off day (which lets face it, if we are honest, we ALL have in our jobs sometimes).

As I saw it, we lost yesterday because in attack, our decoy runners didn't run hard enough or often enough to prevent the defence from drifting, and in defence, simple mised tackles or lapses in concentration.

It doesn't take 'better quality' to resolve those issues

 
Re: New arrivals
expectingrain (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 08:53
Quote:
AlexInSouthville
Yesterday wasn't about the quality of players, it was about attitude.
I don't think attitude a deep-rooted issue with this squad, and I believe it was just a case of too many players having an off day (which lets face it, if we are honest, we ALL have in our jobs sometimes).

As I saw it, we lost yesterday because in attack, our decoy runners didn't run hard enough or often enough to prevent the defence from drifting, and in defence, simple mised tackles or lapses in concentration.

It doesn't take 'better quality' to resolve those issues

So you think there is nothing wrong with our Front 5 and Scrum Half that a change of attitude and a few tweeks to the systems wont resolve?

 
Re: New arrivals
AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 08:59
Quote:
expectingrain
Quote:
AlexInSouthville
Yesterday wasn't about the quality of players, it was about attitude.
I don't think attitude a deep-rooted issue with this squad, and I believe it was just a case of too many players having an off day (which lets face it, if we are honest, we ALL have in our jobs sometimes).

As I saw it, we lost yesterday because in attack, our decoy runners didn't run hard enough or often enough to prevent the defence from drifting, and in defence, simple mised tackles or lapses in concentration.

It doesn't take 'better quality' to resolve those issues

So you think there is nothing wrong with our Front 5 and Scrum Half that a change of attitude and a few tweeks to the systems wont resolve?

Clearly there are issues with the front 5, which is why I didn't mention it above.

But to my point, yes, in my opinion, our systems will work, when implemented properly

 
Re: New arrivals
Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 09:16
However, it is clear that if we play the relatively light and mobile back row that ought to facilitate the type of game plan Lam wants then we need an absolutely solid front five. The problemm is that in the Premiership you can actually get away with a technically less proficient front three than you can in the Championship. Paradoxically I think that our best current pack struggle more in this league than they would in the Premiership. I point once again to Perenise as an example. Or I could use Franks as an example for Lirish who looked very sub par last season and appears fine now.

On the other hand I continue to be concerned that Pat Lam's coaching credentials seem to be largely based on a single season of over-performance with Connacht. Not that I buy into the contention that you can only stay in the Premiership by employing a grinding risk-averse style, the try scoring stats in the Premiership suggest otherwise. But we do need an agressive defence that stops the opposition and becomes an attacking weapon for us. And that does need the foundation of a solid set-piece. I suppose it is a question of gettin the balance right.

 
Re: New arrivals
Graham_U (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 12:09
Yesterday's starting back row was hardly light weight Gray, Luatua, Haining and Lam probably about our heaviest. But that did illustrate one of the least well spoke about issues with our style of play is that the ball carrier gets easily isolated hence we give away far too much ball and many penalties. IMHO this is why Hurrell is down the road at the moment rather than playing for us despite his success last year.

I certainly expressed the sames concerns about Pat's coaching credential when we signed him. There is no doubt he has introduced a better culture about the club, but the same was said of Robbo, Hilly, and Middleton in their early winning days. However yesterday we saw many of the same issues as we saw against Hartpury in the first game of the season, and have been there through out! Scrum, line-out, ball carrier lack of support and pens/turnover, missed tackles, maul defence.

The game plan is very high risk and when a team put us under pressure we struggle, and less of those risk work in our favour. In the prem this will be every match, and I'm far from convince its the game plan to be successful in the prem. In general I don't think we are anywhere near as good as a team as the individual players we have, That is an issue that lies firmly with Pat. I don't really see the massive improvements in the team or most of the players, that I would have expected from such a high value coach with such huge resources at his disposal. I would even say some of our players (new and old) have stagnated or gone backwards this season. Many of the closer game we won were because of our brilliant/expensive individual players doing something special, not because of the team system, and in the prem we won't have that advantage to fall back on.



Graham

C'mon Bris,

http://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/file/s100.htm?102,file=399.jpg

Stand out in a crowd, wear the Hoops!

 
Re: New arrivals
Cidered Abroad (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 12:34
Quote:
Graham_U
Yesterday's starting back row was hardly light weight Gray, Luatua, Haining and Lam probably about our heaviest. But that did illustrate one of the least well spoke about issues with our style of play is that the ball carrier gets easily isolated hence we give away far too much ball and many penalties. IMHO this is why Hurrell is down the road at the moment rather than playing for us despite his success last year.
I certainly expressed the sames concerns about Pat's coaching credential when we signed him. There is no doubt he has introduced a better culture about the club, but the same was said of Robbo, Hilly, and Middleton in their early winning days. However yesterday we saw many of the same issues as we saw against Hartpury in the first game of the season, and have been there through out! Scrum, line-out, ball carrier lack of support and pens/turnover, missed tackles, maul defence.

The game plan is very high risk and when a team put us under pressure we struggle, and less of those risk work in our favour. In the prem this will be every match, and I'm far from convince its the game plan to be successful in the prem. In general I don't think we are anywhere near as good as a team as the individual players we have, That is an issue that lies firmly with Pat. I don't really see the massive improvements in the team or most of the players, that I would have expected from such a high value coach with such huge resources at his disposal. I would even say some of our players (new and old) have stagnated or gone backwards this season. Many of the closer game we won were because of our brilliant/expensive individual players doing something special, not because of the team system, and in the prem we won't have that advantage to fall back on.

Spot on with your assessments.

 
Re: New arrivals
Ernie Ball (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 16:57
The problem with our forwards I put solely at Mark Bakewell's door. He must have said to PL that what we currently have would be sufficient to get us comfortably through this season. Obviously he was wrong and perhaps should have insisted on some additional recruitment when our shortcomings became first apparent - i.e. after the first few matches.

Anyway, hopefully this wake up call will get us the 15 points from 5 matches required to secure promotion (this would draw us level with Ealing, but we have a vastly superior points for/against difference)

 
Re: New arrivals
happyH (IP Logged)
07 March, 2018 21:23
What about Copeland from Munster?
No 8 /back row/second row
Hes leaving but no word of where he is going

CMON BRISSS

 
Re: New arrivals
Sit_Down (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 14:10
Quote:
thorpebayexile
If you look at the, very useful, other thread you can see how the squad with confirmed signings is shaping up. Clearly, it's not the same as the current team.
PL will be looking at the effectiveness of the units he is creating.

His new front row of afoa/thacker/Thomas have performed at mid upper level premiership before.

Muldowney and vui/Joyce would also hold their own as a unit. As would the new flanker, Thomas and lautua in the back row.

With C Puitua and this year's backs I would think that we are just maybe a wing or a centre off being a very well balanced side.

If you look at the other thread and add in the rumoured signings from Ealing then compare the possible first team to the team we had in the summer of the last venture to the top table.

I remember at that time talking to ex Bristol player friends over a few beers and we couldn't work out whether AR was deluded and believed his team was good enough or whether he hadn't been given the funds to recruit.

If you compare the possible team already signed to that last team then we look stronger in pretty nearly every position.

Great Post

 
Re: New arrivals
inatthebreakdown (IP Logged)
08 March, 2018 17:01
Quote:
Sit_Down
Quote:
thorpebayexile
If you look at the, very useful, other thread you can see how the squad with confirmed signings is shaping up. Clearly, it's not the same as the current team.
PL will be looking at the effectiveness of the units he is creating.

His new front row of afoa/thacker/Thomas have performed at mid upper level premiership before.

Muldowney and vui/Joyce would also hold their own as a unit. As would the new flanker, Thomas and lautua in the back row.

With C Puitua and this year's backs I would think that we are just maybe a wing or a centre off being a very well balanced side.

If you look at the other thread and add in the rumoured signings from Ealing then compare the possible first team to the team we had in the summer of the last venture to the top table.

I remember at that time talking to ex Bristol player friends over a few beers and we couldn't work out whether AR was deluded and believed his team was good enough or whether he hadn't been given the funds to recruit.

If you compare the possible team already signed to that last team then we look stronger in pretty nearly every position.

Great Post


Agreed! +1

 
Re: New arrivals
AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
09 March, 2018 08:26
Quote:
expectingrain
Quote:
T J
Im not obsessed with us signing internationals, what I am obsessed with is signing players who improve on what we already have. Im also obsessed with us not making the same mess of life in the Prem that we did under AR, where arrogance and stupidity made certain parties think the squad that took us up could survive in the Prem, and when the chickens came home to roost we were stuck with@#$%&like the American centre whose name escapes me.
To survive in the Prem we need a number of seasoned dogs who know what it is needed to compete at that level, both in the coaching set up and the playing squad. Afoa falls into that category, but we have very few others at present who are.

Couldn't agree more with this. I still feel the hurt from 2 years ago and I don't want to risk repeating it. I know Thomas, Protheroe, Jefferies etc and a host of overs stand a good chance of thriving in the Prem, but they are not proven. Same with player like Afoa, are they over the hill? Maybe Maybe not. The fact is we just don't know and are taking a risk. I'd rather have a bit more certainty that's all.

Another thing on the 'proven Prem player' thing....it doesn't mean they will be a fit for every Premiership club's systems/tactics.

Dan Lydiate and Dan Cole are 'proven' internationals, and British Lions no less - but i don't think they would be a valuable addition to a squad that will be playing the game we have seen from Lam so far.

This is where i believe Robinson's recruitment went wrong...signing players with the most experience/profile, even if it meant trying shoehorn Pisi into 10 in a kicking team.

 
Re: New arrivals
Portisteve (IP Logged)
09 March, 2018 09:19
Pisi would have played 12 if Gav was available more at 10

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