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Re: Bad
Pathfinder (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 18:39
We need 16 points from 5 games to ensure promotion. Our run-in and Ealing's are remarkably similar. We have Rotherham, Nottingham and Hartpury away; they have the same three at home. We have Leeds and Doncaster at home; they have them both away then finish the season away at Pirates. Ealing also have the little "distraction" of the B&I Cup. Don't forget Nottingham beat Ealing.

With the greatest respect to Rotherham, that should be an away 5-pointer for us. Thereafter, after today's dog's breakfast, who knows where the other eleven will come from?

 
Re: Bad
robtheh (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 19:23
Our defence has been a problem & our forwards have been an issue for this season.
However, weíve made strides in our line defence and our scramble defence.
Our system has looked, altogether, poor.
Forwards-wise, weíre not going to know until Pat has his man in there: Bakewell & Thomas are not that man.

 
Re: Bad
Field marshall (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 19:34
The concerning thing is that our weaknesses today aren't new. We have had a bit of a leaky defence for years and the scrum has been shaky for a long while. How hard can it be to get pack containing the class of ours in the championship to win a few scrums or get parity in the tight? We need to be much wilier too.
I hate to be a doom mongerer, but the quality and performance of our team including coaching is only relevant when considered in the context of the premiership and at the moment we're a long way off. Wuss would marmalise us at present and even Charles won't bridge that considerable gap. There will not be any soft teams in the AP next year, possibly except us. If we don't improve and improve a LOT in a reasonably short period it's yo-yo time. Again.

 
Re: Bad
Singapore Sam (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 20:58
Flew 7,500 miles and went through 4ft snow for that @#$%&! The referee was @#$%& hopeless but you can only play what's in front of you. The backs were useless as well as the forwards. When I look at the tactics and even the basics of the formation, structure of the team in attack and defence we will win the Championship but will get crucified in the Premiership, and even if we get a lot of "head turning" talent unless the coaching approach changes we will put utterly and totally to the sword. Very depressing as I don't think Lam, on this showing, can institute what's needed.

 
Re: Bad
w4rriorz1980 (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 21:40
Hi.Wuss fan here.Judging by our performance against Tiggers today you won't fear playing us next season!
I follow your forum as i like Bristol,it's people and Brizzle fans but don't necessarily comment but just want to say how difficult it is playing Jersey home and away.
Also you're well aware that Van Breda is coming to us.How well did he do today? I know he helped himself to 18 points in total but just wondering how he was in general.
Anyway can't wait to visit Ashton Gate next season,be genuinely good to see you back.
P.s Is Varndell with you next season? Hate seeing him playing us! (Sm136)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2018 21:48 by w4rriorz1980.

 
Re: Bad
eddy621 (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 21:59
Gents, that was totally inept today wasn't it. It was like a bunch of guys that met up 5 minutes before in the carpark. These are not bad players, the central point is the coaching. I put a post up last month, here it is:

"I saw Pats interview and he really has a vision as to what he wants to achieve in developing a ĎBristol Rugbyí culture. If players donít fit that profile they wonít be here. I like what heís trying to achieve very much and Iím not here to talk bad of him. We now (in comparison to the previous management) seem to have a plan and some direction. The style of play he wants to achieve seems to be similar to what he did at Connacht in the PRO12/14.

For me that style of play is fine if youíre in a league where there is no relegation, if you finish bottom you can regroup and try again next year. The Prem is a much more attritional league. If we are promoted at the end of the season we are likely to be (unless something miraculous happens) in the bottom third of that league if not the bottom 2 as we adjust to the higher standard. Down at the bottom of the league teams are not as adventurous and it can become a bit of a dogfight in the forwards. I know we have forwards coming but my concern is about where the coaches have come from. There is very little Prem coaching experience. If you believe the rumours Mark Bakewell is off and that leaves (as far as Iím aware) only Jonathon Thomas with Prem experience.
I think we need to find 1 or 2 top class coaches with Prem experience because it is a very different league to the PRO12/14.

Again, Iím not talking bad of Pat but I think we are missing a trick here Ė your thoughts?"

For me that still stands. Why move a former back (JT) to coach the forwards and a former forward (Pat) to coach the forwards. Our problem is in the coaching and the style of play pat wants, that may be ok in the PRO14 but not in this or the prem league.
In the interview, pat talked about guys who are backs in a forwards body, never mind that i want a forward in a forwards body!! You cannot win a game if you don't have control up front.

While i prefer the team not to lose, if they do, do it by being beaten by a better team, not what happened today that was utter rubbish. Money needs to be spent looking for top class coaches ideally with premiership experience

 
Re: Bad
foinavon (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 22:04
Don't think there was that much wrong with our defence today apart from our underpowered forwards and inability to stop rolling maul from lineouts close to the line. Basically we simply gifted Jersey 3 tries through incompetent play on our own ball.

Jersey had a plan to attack our shipping of the ball along the back line - one player to tackle the ball carrier and the second player to immediately attack the next player in the line and it worked

I'd like to have seen us have a few more phases of direct running to suck some defenders in before shipping the ball wide - we seem to have got into the mind frame that we can ship the ball to the wings from first phase - especially problematic when we're doing it from our own 22.

I'd say it was a particularly bad day at the office when more or less everything went wrong (including appalling line out display in the last 20 mins). Or maybe the time that we finally got caught out after some lucky escapes (e.g. home matches against Hartbury and Doncaster).

In fact we've put in quite a few poor performances like this home - I wonder whether the team has the feeling that they've got to put in fancy attacking plays in front of the home crowd.

 
Re: Bad
Paulie (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 22:06
Not sure if you mistyped Jonathan Thomas was a 6 and a pretty good one at that. Definitely not a back.

 
Re: Bad
Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 22:12
Quote:
eddy621
For me that style of play is fine if youíre in a league where there is no relegation, if you finish bottom you can regroup and try again next year. The Prem is a much more attritional league. If we are promoted at the end of the season we are likely to be (unless something miraculous happens) in the bottom third of that league if not the bottom 2 as we adjust to the higher standard. Down at the bottom of the league teams are not as adventurous and it can become a bit of a dogfight in the forwards. I know we have forwards coming but my concern is about where the coaches have come from. There is very little Prem coaching experience. If you believe the rumours Mark Bakewell is off and that leaves (as far as Iím aware) only Jonathon Thomas with Prem experience.
I think we need to find 1 or 2 top class coaches with Prem experience because it is a very different league to the PRO12/14.

Again, Iím not talking bad of Pat but I think we are missing a trick here Ė your thoughts?"

For me that still stands. Why move a former back (JT) to coach the forwards and a former forward (Pat) to coach the forwards. Our problem is in the coaching and the style of play pat wants, that may be ok in the PRO14 but not in this or the prem league.
In the interview, pat talked about guys who are backs in a forwards body, never mind that i want a forward in a forwards body!! You cannot win a game if you don't have control up front.

While i prefer the team not to lose, if they do, do it by being beaten by a better team, not what happened today that was utter rubbish. Money needs to be spent looking for top class coaches ideally with premiership experience

Bakewell left to Tigers 3 weeks ago.

 
Re: Bad
Since 1888 (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 22:32
He was quoting his own post from a month ago AW, hope bakes is doing more for you then he did for us! Iím praying he was our problem by the way. Otherwise we are in trouble.

 
Re: Bad
Singapore Sam (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 22:39
What is missing is the A,B,C's even at the end when Bristol should have retained possession and ground out yards down the field. Instead we did speculative kick out to the wing, beaten by the bounce and game over. Very disappointing to say the least!

 
Re: Bad
Ayerzawannabe (IP Logged)
04 March, 2018 23:15
Quote:
Since 1888
He was quoting his own post from a month ago AW, hope bakes is doing more for you then he did for us! Iím praying he was our problem by the way. Otherwise we are in trouble.

Ah my bad, sorry.

Re Bakes everyone seems to be liking him our forwards have done a complete 180 it seems since he arrived and are actually performing well which has made a nice change from the rest of this season. Whether it last or not is another thing entirely.

 
Re: Bad
Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 06:39
Have to disagree about the kick at the end. With the winger completely unmarked and in acres of space that was definitely the right option. It's just that the execution was a little off. A bit more welly and it was straight into the arms of Morahan, even as it was if the ball had bounced the other way he'd still have got it. And he'd have been in for a totally undeserved win.

 
Re: Bad
bs11 (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 06:47
Quote:
Since 1888
Fair play to Jersey, they had a very solid line out and scrum but we gifted them 2 or 3 tries. I donít think they had to do too much to be honest. We looked really bad, no rose tinted specs here. We will improve and get better with better personnel but the juryís out on our forward coaching and the aimless chucking it around in our 22 involving forwards as pivots.
Totally agree with this if you watch Madigan takes the ball and then passed it to Latta which wouldn't be so bad if he got his head down and drove into the opposition to commit a few defenders but as since 1888 says he acts as a pivot ships it on and the defenders just drift across the field.Modern tactics puzzle me at times.

 
Re: Bad
Rich. (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 07:19
London Irish and Worcester (bottom 2 in Prem) are/try to be two of the more adventurous teams in the Prem from what I've seen.

It has seemed for a while/all season that we would certainly not stay up next year with current squad and there are a number of problems BUT I don't think it's a coincidence that we beat Ealing away in our last game and effectively ensured promotion with that win. I have a feeling we'd have won comfortably yesterday if we have been pipped by Ealing. Mentally just not there yesterday and even at half time the players probably sub-consciously thought "we've been here before at half time and our fitness and skill when gaps appear has told on the second half and so we will be fine" - and big shame though it is, must teams in our position could have done the same. Doesn't make it easier for those of us who turned up to see it mind and, as said, our current squad would not make it next year IMO and I'm sure most people's.

 
Re: Bad
thorpebayexile (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 07:57
I think there were three problems

1 mentally we look like the hunger has gone. As if they are all thinking about next season already

2 uren had a mare

3 our front five, other than Cortes, just aren't good enough against big gnarly packs.

 
Re: Bad
AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 08:52
Quote:
bs11
Quote:
Since 1888
Fair play to Jersey, they had a very solid line out and scrum but we gifted them 2 or 3 tries. I donít think they had to do too much to be honest. We looked really bad, no rose tinted specs here. We will improve and get better with better personnel but the juryís out on our forward coaching and the aimless chucking it around in our 22 involving forwards as pivots.
Totally agree with this if you watch Madigan takes the ball and then passed it to Latta which wouldn't be so bad if he got his head down and drove into the opposition to commit a few defenders but as since 1888 says he acts as a pivot ships it on and the defenders just drift across the field.Modern tactics puzzle me at times.

The idea with this is that there are three credible options that the defenders have to cover.

1. Latta smashing it up
2. Latta with a 'one out' pop to the prop steaming up on his shoulder
3. Latta passing behind the prop to the next receiver

The problem was both Latta and his outside prop were standing absolutely still, and 5 metres behind gain line, when Latta got the ball.

This meant options 1 and 2 had no momentum, so 1 on 1 tackles were sufficient, and they were not sucking in enough defenders. The knock on effect was that defenders who would otherwise be sucked in were able to fork the drift which meant no outside space for option 3.

The only way we made space later in the game was sheer fatigue from Jersey D opening up gaps

 
Re: Bad
Meerkats1970 (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 08:52
Outplayed and fair play to Jersey.

No game management in the last 20 mins, looked a bit like Scot v Eng.

Predictable, predictable, predictable.

Slightly disappointed but they have not looked like a team that should be unbeaten. Jersey looked well fed and up for it but nothing we should not have dealt with.

Feel a bit like there are players that don't want to be there as they wont be there next season, also slightly concerned about the numbers of English qualified in the starting line up.

Things don't match with the vision for me but we are only one season in. I dont think being Connacht will do the biscuit next season and if we dont get the pack right then it will be a long season

 
Re: Bad
BigO (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 09:23
First up, very well done to Jersey. They deployed every trick in the book and got away with it 90% of the time. They were everything we weren't - hungry, up for a fight, and tactically spot on.

Reffing is difficult, but some of the officiating was just poor. They seemed to be making it up as they went along, and got some big calls wrong.

But this loss has been coming for a while. We've ridden our luck a good few times and have been pushed way too close by teams many thought we'd put 50 points on, including me. Hopefully this will give the players the kick up the butt they needed, and it'll give PL the insights he needs to make some difficult decision - especially around the effectiveness of our forwards.

The first 10 minutes was OK, but after Luatua went off (is he carrying a long term knee injury?) we lost our heads. The lack of leadership was worrying. I don't like singling players out, but I'm really sorry - Uren is way, way off the required standard to get anywhere near being a prem standard 9. Maybe in 3 or 4 years.

Tactically, as others have said, we're all at sea. The idea of front 5 forwards shipping the ball through the hands the width of the field and being pushed backwards time and time again suggests that either our players don't have the skills and ability to implement the tactics, or the tactics are just wrong. Maybe it's a bit of both.

A lot of this is depressingly familiar stuff.

 
Re: Bad
bris4life (IP Logged)
05 March, 2018 09:35
Just picking up on something Meerkats touched on in his last post, particularly "players that don't want to be there as they wont be there next season":

I too was wondering whether it is around this time of the season when players will know that they are sorted for next season (either with us or elsewhere), thus they subconsciously relax and are just a few % off the pace?

Whereas those that now know they don't have a future with us will be demotivated a few % and likewise those that don't know their future yet may also be more worried about that, so are also a few % below par.

I know they are all well-paid professionals, but its also human nature at play possibly.

I'm not looking for excuses as there really aren't any, but maybe those few % below par across the entire team/squad yesterday made the difference in a game we could and should have won, if it weren't for our own mistakes, bad game management and inability to out-dog a spirited and organised Jersey.

Its still in our hands, but we do make it difficult for ourselves. It will mean the focus must be 100% for the remainder, or we could find ourselves in trouble of our own doing.

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