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Now this isn't meant to by any means divide us so bear with me!
Ok - we lost and deservedly so. Jersey wanted this and by god did we let them take it (the highlights don't do us justice as to how inept we were!!)
Yes we are not by any stretch the finished article. Yes our front 5 has been woeful at times this season and yes we still appear to have some frailties throughout the squad in terms of depth and quality.
BUT....
Do we really think that the club are naive enough to let us @#$%& this up again like we did last Year? We obviously have a long way to go and it's not going to be all plain sailing but I do believe we are building things the right way. Pat et al are not the messiahs (nor very naughty boys
) but they need time to suss out what they've got - Pat clearly has a way he wants to play and as yet, we clearly cannot perform this. I think we'll be relatively surprised by some of the signings he's made (Muldowney and Malton will not be pushovers - they come from good stock and will help to sure up our front 5) and some of the others to come will make us competitive. We will continue to lose games over the next 18 months (probably more than we will win) but I think that this will be a reasonable time for us to review what Pat has done to the club and not before.
I know I'll get called rose-tinted or too optimistic but I've seen some absolute dross peddled out in our famous colours (and some red) and also far too much hyperbole and rhetoric by coaches - Pat appears to be saying what we're thinking and for this I think we give him a chance.
Yes I was absolutely peeved at yesterday's shambolic display but there were 2 teams out there and only one turned up. It was not good enough and there needs to be some harsh words delivered. But let's judge next year on next year and just get this promotion done and dusted.
Onwards!
C'mon Bris!!!!
Ok - we lost and deservedly so. Jersey wanted this and by god did we let them take it (the highlights don't do us justice as to how inept we were!!)
Yes we are not by any stretch the finished article. Yes our front 5 has been woeful at times this season and yes we still appear to have some frailties throughout the squad in terms of depth and quality.
BUT....
Do we really think that the club are naive enough to let us @#$%& this up again like we did last Year? We obviously have a long way to go and it's not going to be all plain sailing but I do believe we are building things the right way. Pat et al are not the messiahs (nor very naughty boys
) but they need time to suss out what they've got - Pat clearly has a way he wants to play and as yet, we clearly cannot perform this. I think we'll be relatively surprised by some of the signings he's made (Muldowney and Malton will not be pushovers - they come from good stock and will help to sure up our front 5) and some of the others to come will make us competitive. We will continue to lose games over the next 18 months (probably more than we will win) but I think that this will be a reasonable time for us to review what Pat has done to the club and not before.
I know I'll get called rose-tinted or too optimistic but I've seen some absolute dross peddled out in our famous colours (and some red) and also far too much hyperbole and rhetoric by coaches - Pat appears to be saying what we're thinking and for this I think we give him a chance.
Yes I was absolutely peeved at yesterday's shambolic display but there were 2 teams out there and only one turned up. It was not good enough and there needs to be some harsh words delivered. But let's judge next year on next year and just get this promotion done and dusted.
Onwards!
C'mon Bris!!!!
Thirded.
Whilst the performance exposed certain aspects of our Forward play (that really are already known about and recruitment is in progress for), it also highlighted that we have a pretty awesome set of Backs who very nearly completed an impossible task in the last seven or eight minutes.
Whilst the performance exposed certain aspects of our Forward play (that really are already known about and recruitment is in progress for), it also highlighted that we have a pretty awesome set of Backs who very nearly completed an impossible task in the last seven or eight minutes.
I agree.
Yesterday I think the team were trying to experiment with using the inside runner, which broke down a number of times, handing over possession. I think this partially lead to our downfall.
Yesterday I think the team were trying to experiment with using the inside runner, which broke down a number of times, handing over possession. I think this partially lead to our downfall.
Yip.
I think Pat's systems will be viable in the premiership also, it's the execution of said systems that will be the true test.
I think Pat's systems will be viable in the premiership also, it's the execution of said systems that will be the true test.
The Ealing away game calmed my fears about ‘the system’ as we played a much more direct abraisive style in the wet which is more suited to the prem. We need to be able to react and play the situation, and I was glad to see the plan b
Quote:Bristol-Supporter
I agree.
Yesterday I think the team were trying to experiment with using the inside runner, which broke down a number of times, handing over possession. I think this partially lead to our downfall.
Yes - I spotted that too.
Did someone (Pat himself?) last week say we were using this part of the season as a long pre-season for next year?
We might expect to see some systems-in-development not all of which will work.
We might want to use this part of the season to ensure we get promoted. Just saying.
Sunday was the third time in four seasons that Jersey have ended the unbeaten runs of sides previously relegated from the Premiership who would then go on to gain promotion. In March last year they beat London Irish 15-11 at home, while in March 2015 they were 23-21 winners at Worcester.
Quote:Gray_Lensman
We might want to use this part of the season to ensure we get promoted. Just saying.
Word.
(as the youngsters say for some unfathomable reason)
“Well said”. According to the Urban Dictionary.
As mentioned above, part of the reason for mistakes is trying things that we would probably not do in the Prem.
Also, this season we are every team's 'cup final', which won't be the case next year.
And on a similar vein, fans need to remember that this is the player's job, and like any of us in the stands, they will have days in their jobs when they don't get into gear, and can't seem to raise a gallop - especially when the league is all but sewn up.
I honestly believe if the Prem season started next weekend, there would be a noticeable step-up in performance from the same players, playing the same system.
Also, this season we are every team's 'cup final', which won't be the case next year.
And on a similar vein, fans need to remember that this is the player's job, and like any of us in the stands, they will have days in their jobs when they don't get into gear, and can't seem to raise a gallop - especially when the league is all but sewn up.
I honestly believe if the Prem season started next weekend, there would be a noticeable step-up in performance from the same players, playing the same system.
I've said all season that the only point in all this season is as preparation for survival in Prem next season. Something I would suggest we are behind targets on as this is the weakest Champ we've ever been in. Promotion with our resources and players without the risk of the play-offs will be no achievement, not even a min requirement for this season.
Pat has now had 80% of a season with this team and there are still major problems from the first game that have not been addressed. That is not good enough, with a host of new players how are we going to solve this in pre-season for the tougher challenge at the start of next season. This is the job is here for, and he must be good enough to meet it.
Hopefully there is something magic in Pat's plan that will turn this round over the pre-season, that isn't just sign another raft of expensive players. My worry is that as with Robbo, who is going to be strong enough to audit Pat and hold him to account at the end of the season. Throughout this season there is a "In Pat we trust" mantra in the same way as there was a "Hilly know best" when things were going wrong. Pat's main coaching achievement was to build an under funded club to be competitive in a league with no relegation that took a number of years, its a totally different challenge at Bris under SL.
The one thing his game plan needs to have any chance of working in the Prem is a stable forward platform to give us front foot ball as he had at Connacht. The backs magic will not get us out of jail in the Prem like it has in the Champ so many times. There lots of short term views on her blaming the players as not good enough which ignores that we have plenty of front 5 players that have done it at this level, Prem or international level so why are the coaches not getting them to perform? Or in some cases even using them e,g, JackO'C started most of our games when we were last in the Champ and did well in all aspects yet hardly got a game this season. We had one of the best forwards coaches in the business already making a different at the Cheaters so why have we been weak in the forwards!
Graham
C'mon Bris,
Stand out in a crowd, wear the Hoops!
Pat has now had 80% of a season with this team and there are still major problems from the first game that have not been addressed. That is not good enough, with a host of new players how are we going to solve this in pre-season for the tougher challenge at the start of next season. This is the job is here for, and he must be good enough to meet it.
Hopefully there is something magic in Pat's plan that will turn this round over the pre-season, that isn't just sign another raft of expensive players. My worry is that as with Robbo, who is going to be strong enough to audit Pat and hold him to account at the end of the season. Throughout this season there is a "In Pat we trust" mantra in the same way as there was a "Hilly know best" when things were going wrong. Pat's main coaching achievement was to build an under funded club to be competitive in a league with no relegation that took a number of years, its a totally different challenge at Bris under SL.
The one thing his game plan needs to have any chance of working in the Prem is a stable forward platform to give us front foot ball as he had at Connacht. The backs magic will not get us out of jail in the Prem like it has in the Champ so many times. There lots of short term views on her blaming the players as not good enough which ignores that we have plenty of front 5 players that have done it at this level, Prem or international level so why are the coaches not getting them to perform? Or in some cases even using them e,g, JackO'C started most of our games when we were last in the Champ and did well in all aspects yet hardly got a game this season. We had one of the best forwards coaches in the business already making a different at the Cheaters so why have we been weak in the forwards!
Graham
C'mon Bris,
Stand out in a crowd, wear the Hoops!
Graham
Absolutely spot on. I used to play centre, but i know a game is won and lost in the forwards. You can have the best backs in the world but if you can't get the ball you can't do anything with it. Front row stood in midfield acting as a pivot, any body that has played knows you should take the ball when going forwards, that's basic stuff kids get taught. We need some rough dogs for our forwards a la Peter o Mahoney and Dylan Hartley, some uncompromising no nonsense players. Pat talks about backs in a forwards body, i want forwards in a forwards body to win the ball, control the breakdown and give us front foot ball. Also better forwards coaches with premiership experience because i think that is where pat will be caught out.
Absolutely spot on. I used to play centre, but i know a game is won and lost in the forwards. You can have the best backs in the world but if you can't get the ball you can't do anything with it. Front row stood in midfield acting as a pivot, any body that has played knows you should take the ball when going forwards, that's basic stuff kids get taught. We need some rough dogs for our forwards a la Peter o Mahoney and Dylan Hartley, some uncompromising no nonsense players. Pat talks about backs in a forwards body, i want forwards in a forwards body to win the ball, control the breakdown and give us front foot ball. Also better forwards coaches with premiership experience because i think that is where pat will be caught out.
But the Pat game plan also means we need forwards with fitness, enough speed and ball-playing skills, who can link with the backs (nearly if not fully) in the way the Scarlets ones do. You can't just do it with good backs these days (almost) however much ball you get - there is too little space and well-organised defences. Look at the Bath back-line for instance - the reason Bath are not doing it is (IMO) mainly because they don't have enough forwards who can link with their backs in the way I mention. Their backs are one of the best sets of backs there are but that is not enough.
There are not many forwards in the Rob Evans, Aaron Shingler, category unfortunately but I'm sure Pat's focus will certainly be about getting forwards who can play the way I mention BUT who are also good enough at the traditional forward duties. He'll be hopign John Afoa can still consistently be like that for a start.
There are not many forwards in the Rob Evans, Aaron Shingler, category unfortunately but I'm sure Pat's focus will certainly be about getting forwards who can play the way I mention BUT who are also good enough at the traditional forward duties. He'll be hopign John Afoa can still consistently be like that for a start.
Joyce seems to be quite physical at times, doesn't seem to have that "edge" though- probably too nice. We don't have any players of that ilk in our forwards really, we should look into that. Either front row Marler/Sinkler/Genge type or big, abrasive backrow who's not afraid to put it about... or both. Guess we could say Lay could be one of those, but I'm not convinced by his scrummaging as of yet.
Seems an age (it is really) since the likes of Gareth Llewellyn were sparking out Barfers at Ashton Gate and never taking a backwards step.
Seems an age (it is really) since the likes of Gareth Llewellyn were sparking out Barfers at Ashton Gate and never taking a backwards step.
Muldowney will add a certain level of aggression to the pack. Thacker and Afoa certainly can play too if we're talking about forwards that can pass etc. I've not seen any of Lay at Edinburgh if anyone has seen him?
Exactly Jambo - Thacker will fit in just right.
As for putting it about - you clearly won't want players who will be intimidated by the likes of Marler but at top level rugby these days you will not get away with violence and will be no help to your team if you do act violently. Ellis Genge is great and will be a regular England player because he is a good scrummager, is fit and gets round the park, is pretty fast, knows how and when to pass, is strong, plays as if no care for own safety and is a very good carrier.
As for putting it about - you clearly won't want players who will be intimidated by the likes of Marler but at top level rugby these days you will not get away with violence and will be no help to your team if you do act violently. Ellis Genge is great and will be a regular England player because he is a good scrummager, is fit and gets round the park, is pretty fast, knows how and when to pass, is strong, plays as if no care for own safety and is a very good carrier.
Graham
Your comments are spot on. The squad has not been able to carry out Lam's plan consistently or appropriately. I have cynically christened it LPPP - Lam's Pointless Passing Policy.
New signings wont help much unless they are stellar players [unlikely]. Lam sounds more like Robinson with each interview. He talks about working harder etc. No! They have to work smarter and adapt the plan to the ability of the squad. So no LPPP inside your own 22 or no LPPP when the line is static and nobody is able to run onto the ball. That requires judgement and leadership on the field - two qualities that are not apparent in sufficient quantity.
Why the rose tinted supporters cannot see that the squad is not progressing I do not understand. The other idea that in the Premiership current tactics/game plan are more likely to work is just bullsxxt.
if you disagree read Graham's posting above again and provide specific reasons why he is wrong.
Your comments are spot on. The squad has not been able to carry out Lam's plan consistently or appropriately. I have cynically christened it LPPP - Lam's Pointless Passing Policy.
New signings wont help much unless they are stellar players [unlikely]. Lam sounds more like Robinson with each interview. He talks about working harder etc. No! They have to work smarter and adapt the plan to the ability of the squad. So no LPPP inside your own 22 or no LPPP when the line is static and nobody is able to run onto the ball. That requires judgement and leadership on the field - two qualities that are not apparent in sufficient quantity.
Why the rose tinted supporters cannot see that the squad is not progressing I do not understand. The other idea that in the Premiership current tactics/game plan are more likely to work is just bullsxxt.
if you disagree read Graham's posting above again and provide specific reasons why he is wrong.
Jonkarit - you say 'Why the rose tinted supporters cannot see that the squad is not progressing I do not understand' - but (with one exception) I'm not sure I've seen a post recently that says the current squad is progressing and will be ok in the Prem.
You also ask those who disagree with Graham's points on this thread to give specific reasons why he is wrong, and yet since his post no-one has indicated he is wrong as far as I can tell
You also ask those who disagree with Graham's points on this thread to give specific reasons why he is wrong, and yet since his post no-one has indicated he is wrong as far as I can tell
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