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barbarian style rugby.
sbu (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 21:22
This was a dreadful performance by bristol. Pat Lam must look into himself to allow this team to throw the ball around in such a cavalier attitude. Tonight once again we were out played and out coached.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Slaphead (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 21:53
It's one game, we need to maintain some perspective here. Who expected us to win away at Gloucester? Not me. Pat Lam is an excellent coach and we have the squad to keep us in the Premiership. Next week it's Harlequins, we will see a better performance and result, for sure.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
robtheh (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 21:56
Quote:
Slaphead
It's one game, we need to maintain some perspective here. Who expected us to win away at Gloucester? Not me. Pat Lam is an excellent coach and we have the squad to keep us in the Premiership. Next week it's Harlequins, we will see a better performance and result, for sure.
Agree, albeit tonight’s has been the poorest performance thus far in my view.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Bristol Ian (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 21:58
I think it's a bit too soon to say the coaches have got it wrong - that's 3 games; 2 away. Like it or not, any premiership team is going to struggle to win away (except Saracens/Exeter). But, in two away first halves, we've competed, frustrated teams and quietened supporters. We will win a couple of away games - we need to worry more about our home games - that's where we need wins.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
CABris (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 22:14
The main thing missing tonight was game management. That was the big difference between the Bath game as well as the first 50 minutes of the Sarries game and tonight. In the first game and a half we kicked when necessary whilst still attacking from deep but it was all much more measured.

Tonight's play was very loose and running literally everything put far too much pressure on our defence. Our defence is very good but it needs to be playing higher up the field. It doesn't matter how good your defence is, if you are always defending 10m from your goal line you will concede. We also need to be more patient in defence, trust the inside guys and not rush up to cut the outside threat so aggresively.

I'm hoping that tonight's style was testing the limits of the league and we found in no uncertain terms that we wont get away with playing like that. Sure if we played like that we would pick up wins against the 'no hopers' like Sale and Worcester but we wont beat any team of any quality.

The first three difficult games are out of the way now and we've come away with 4 points and two encouraging performances. I also think we now have a good idea of how we can and should play. The next three games are Quins, Saints and Worcester in which we should really come away with 2 wins from those 3 games.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
bs11 (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 22:16
The thing I find frustrating at the moment is the predictability of how we are playing the lack of playing any field position strikes me as being an order coming from the top man himself.I'm hoping that the next 2 games at home will be approached with a more rounded game plan.
If the whole season was played out like this I think Pat would have to go down as rugby's version of Arsene Wenger for his total dedication to his style of play.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
French Hoops (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 22:21
there's no doubt Pat Lam is a top coach; and he is a man with a plan. So therefore, you can only conclude that there was a reason behind that game plan tonight. so OK at HT we were up; but it still looked like a seriously risky strategy to be trying to play so much rugby from inside our own 22 against a top Prem side.

everyone was saying it on BT Sports, and they were right: you HAVE to be more pragmatic. You have to give yourself to put those super attacking moves into action in the oppo's 22, and our brilliant defence is never going to succeed repeatedly when they are trying to do their utmost 10m from their own line.

Very, very disappointing from a game management and discipline perspective tonight.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Bristol Ian (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 22:32
Pragmatic is boring - although I get your point-of-view. However, why does a team have to be pragmatic?! For the first half, our 'suicidal' rugby resulted in us leading - and keeping the crowd quiet - away from home.

There are so many ways of playing the game of rugby - the All Blacks went through a stage of keeping the ball at all costs, they also went through a stage of letting the other side have the ball for long periods. England have gone through stages of playing purely for territory, Exter do their thing, Saracens do theirs.

Some things we do work, others don't - but it's been three games... Relax, a tiny bit??

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
bs11 (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 22:40
Quote:
Bristol Ian
Pragmatic is boring - although I get your point-of-view. However, why does a team have to be pragmatic?! For the first half, our 'suicidal' rugby resulted in us leading - and keeping the crowd quiet - away from home.
There are so many ways of playing the game of rugby - the All Blacks went through a stage of keeping the ball at all costs, they also went through a stage of letting the other side have the ball for long periods. England have gone through stages of playing purely for territory, Exter do their thing, Saracens do theirs.

Some things we do work, others don't - but it's been three games... Relax, a tiny bit??
I agree that it's to early to hit the panic button but we currently do lack variaty in our game and we are predictable we just need to vary things a bit more

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
NearAshtonGate (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 22:41
Quote:
Bristol Ian
Some things we do work, others don't - but it's been three games... Relax, a tiny bit??


Agree. We had one sublime backline move that was pulled back for a marginal forward pass that would have been a cracking try. And there was a Luatua offload that was again marginally forward where Morahan won the foot race against Cips to 'score'. If we had executed both passes correctly, the score would have been a lot closer. Don't be afraid to fail - keep on trying.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
inatthebreakdown (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 22:48
Quote:
NearAshtonGate
Quote:
Bristol Ian
Some things we do work, others don't - but it's been three games... Relax, a tiny bit??


Agree. We had one sublime backline move that was pulled back for a marginal forward pass that would have been a cracking try. And there was a Luatua offload that was again marginally forward where Morahan won the foot race against Cips to 'score'. If we had executed both passes correctly, the score would have been a lot closer. Don't be afraid to fail - keep on trying.

+1
We've taken four points from three games against decent established sides. Our more realistic battles lay ahead over the next few weeks.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
WorcesterSauce (IP Logged)
14 September, 2018 23:05
Quote:
CABris
.
I'm hoping that tonight's style was testing the limits of the league and we found in no uncertain terms that we wont get away with playing like that. Sure if we played like that we would pick up wins against the 'no hopers' like Sale and Worcester but we wont beat any team of any quality.

This is fantastic. You wouldn't have beaten some
Championship teams playing like that tonight, let alone any premiership ones.

Oh, and It's one thing to call Worcester "no hopers" but to call Sale it too.... bizarre.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Cunning Stunts (IP Logged)
15 September, 2018 00:32
The second half was a disaster.
No amount of "in Pat we trust" can disguise the fact that we blew this game with an awful gameplay- I felt sorry for the players. There is a reason that no other side in any league in the world plays with such careless abandon in their own 22- it's mental. It puts pressure on your team and the consequences just aren't worth it.
Yes Gloucester are a better side than us and we were up at half time but we played into their hands by throwing it about away from home with careless abandon and it was horrendous to watch from the shed!

Pat Lam, you've got a lot of good ideas but the gameplay tonight was dire and disrespectful. Do NOT play it in your own 22 unless it is clearly on, it is both predictable and foolish.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Wickerman (IP Logged)
15 September, 2018 07:12
[quote Bristol Ian]Pragmatic is boring - although I get your point-of-view. However, why does a team have to be pragmatic?! For the first half, our 'suicidal' rugby resulted in us leading - and keeping the crowd quiet - away from home.

The halftime score was hugely flattering to us we scored from our only attacks.
Gloucester knocked on so much good possession you knew that couldn’t continue.
I can think of that debacle at the back of our scrum under the posts and the Tmo unable to give what looked a likely grounding as two scores they should have had -and should have caused us to learn our lesson.

Early days,but after Bath I think we all dared to believe this could be a very good season and not just survival.I think survival and strengthening is more likely the reality.
If we can beat either Quins or Northampton at home then mid table may be possible which would be great.Ifnot then it will be sweaty palms against sale and Worcester.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Chet Ripley (IP Logged)
15 September, 2018 08:57
We, the supporters, make me smile. Did we get it right last night? No. Did we give Glos a fright in the first half? Yes. The amount of possession we had negated them getting any momentum. Second half a neck roll was missed on Afoa leading up to their first try, had that been spotted then who knows how that half would have gone. Probably the same way, maybe had we punted to the corner and applied pressure Glos could have crumbled. We’ll never know.. my point is that it’s down to small margins.

I too feel we played from too deep however our coaches are meticulous in their planning and I am sure they’ve got a plan, not just game by game, but for the season. Trying things out against teams on games where realistically as the promoted side you are unlikely to win seems to me to be a good test of systems, defence, attack and strategy. When it then comes to those games you can win or indeed when we get these teams at home surely we will be better prepared and know their strengths and weaknesses?

I may be wrong but as I sit here reflecting on last night I am sure that Pat and the team, who are far more knowledgable on rugby and our plans for this season, will be better placed to put us in a position to win future games.

Makes me feel better thinking this anyway. Onwards and upwards!

We’ve still a 100% home record!

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
NickBeard (IP Logged)
15 September, 2018 09:27
A good way to measure progress is to compare results with the 16/17 season. We beat Bath narrowly at home then and lost to both Gloucester and Saracens away after causing them early problems then too. So the same.

As others have said, the test is going to be the home games, particularly the more winnable ones against Saints, Quins, Sale, Newcastle, Leicester, Worcester. We need to win 4 of them and pick up 2 wins away. That would ensure survival

If we win 2 of Quins, Saints and Worcester we will be nicely set.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
NickBeard (IP Logged)
15 September, 2018 09:27
A good way to measure progress is to compare results with the 16/17 season. We beat Bath narrowly at home then and lost to both Gloucester and Saracens away after causing them early problems then too. So the same.

As others have said, the test is going to be the home games, particularly the more winnable ones against Saints, Quins, Sale, Newcastle, Leicester, Worcester. We need to win 4 of them and pick up 2 wins away. That would ensure survival

If we win 2 of Quins, Saints and Worcester we will be nicely set.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Jimeno (IP Logged)
15 September, 2018 10:30
Quote:
CABris
The main thing missing tonight was game management. That was the big difference between the Bath game as well as the first 50 minutes of the Sarries game and tonight. In the first game and a half we kicked when necessary whilst still attacking from deep but it was all much more measured.
Tonight's play was very loose and running literally everything put far too much pressure on our defence. Our defence is very good but it needs to be playing higher up the field. It doesn't matter how good your defence is, if you are always defending 10m from your goal line you will concede. We also need to be more patient in defence, trust the inside guys and not rush up to cut the outside threat so aggresively.

I'm hoping that tonight's style was testing the limits of the league and we found in no uncertain terms that we wont get away with playing like that. Sure if we played like that we would pick up wins against the 'no hopers' like Sale and Worcester but we wont beat any team of any quality.

The first three difficult games are out of the way now and we've come away with 4 points and two encouraging performances. I also think we now have a good idea of how we can and should play. The next three games are Quins, Saints and Worcester in which we should really come away with 2 wins from those 3 games.

Anyone remember the home match two seasons ago against those 'no-hopers' Sale?

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Field marshall (IP Logged)
15 September, 2018 10:54
The no hopers sale? The ones with Solomona, Yarde, Ashton, De klerk, The Curry brothers, beaumont, MacGinty, O Conner, Leota, that Sale? Even Jamie Phillips would get into our team. Make no mistake pretty much every team (with the exception of wuss) is packed with quality which on paper makes ours look distinctly average. It's about more than that obviously and we need to operate as more than the sum of our parts. That's how we'll survive. If we continue to fall away in the second half and can't react to changes in the game/opposition we stand no chance.

 
Re: barbarian style rugby.
Rinkadink (IP Logged)
15 September, 2018 11:46
Quote:
Bristol Ian
Pragmatic is boring - although I get your point-of-view. However, why does a team have to be pragmatic?! For the first half, our 'suicidal' rugby resulted in us leading - and keeping the crowd quiet - away from home.
There are so many ways of playing the game of rugby - the All Blacks went through a stage of keeping the ball at all costs, they also went through a stage of letting the other side have the ball for long periods. England have gone through stages of playing purely for territory, Exter do their thing, Saracens do theirs.

Some things we do work, others don't - but it's been three games... Relax, a tiny bit??

100% this.

The plan works, we just have to be better at doing it. Which will come with experience. Connacht winning the Pro12, our Barf home game, Sarries away (until the card) and Glos first half are proof.

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