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Spencer v Smith Reds
Bristol Fashion (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 07:02
Its interesting the uproar that was created by the Will Spencer red card. For me it was a far more clear cut red that George Smith's and yet it has created so much debate. Some will say that the Wasps v Leicester game was far closer than ours and so it was more of a decisive factor, but we were 18-18 when Smith got carded.

I guess some teams generate more discussion than others and actually the quieter we can go about our business the better for us.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 07:50
I agree about it being clear cut.

Most of the Spencer mitigation has been 'but he is tall, and Taylor was ducking, which is why he caught him directly in the head'....seemingly forgetting the fact that nothing except the '...caught him directly in the head' bit matters.


I am also disappointed to see the Spencer backlash, especially the cringe-inducing 'games gone soft' phrase.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
tobo_ (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 08:36
By the letter of the law, it was a red card - I have no problem with him being red-carded for it as it was a shoulder to the head at the end of the day.

I'd expect him to be out for 2 weeks at most, due to the "Taylor's legs were bent at impact" and "He's 6 foot 7 tall" arguments.

The law is there for the player's safety, but I do think it was a "soft" red card compared to those of yesteryear - still a red card by today's laws.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Rich. (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 10:13
I've watched it a number of times (as they repeat the ad nauseam!!) and to me Taylor's height above the ground was only millimetres lower after the pass than before it (his legs were bent before). in addition Spencer went in with a no arms shoulder charge. It was not a legal tackle even if it had been lower. So what we have here is an illegal shoulder charge to the head and I can't see how anyone could justify it not being a red card - even if it had been done with year ago before the current 'guidance'.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Bristol Fashion (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 10:38
I do think, however, that we need a halfway house between yellow and red. There is a bit of luck involved as I am not sure any player really goes out to deliberately shoulder charge someone in the head. In which case you can conclude that if there is some luck involved (around timing, unexpected player movement etc..) then a red (which changes the entire game) is maybe slightly harsh.

I like some peoples suggestion of having an orange card that takes you off for 20mins.

yellow - usual
orange - dangerous but accidental
red - dangerous and pre-meditated

something like that.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
KJS (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 11:03
In Gaelic sports they use a Black card to send off a player for repeated minor infractions that allows the team to replace that individual from the subs bench..... the individual is punished as per a red on the day but the team only suffers the loss of a substitution and the use of a favoured first choice player. Something like this could be used to give the Ref a halfway option where they deem an element of luck rather than premeditation is involved.
Punish the individuals rather than the whole team or the match.

A black card for 10 mins in the sin bin then replaced by a sub for repeat minor or accidental more serious offences.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Furnessman (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 11:41
nowadays you just cant clothes line tackle opponents, like in yesteryear , look at footie you cannot slide tackle anymore, times have changed but the rugby players are physically bigger and stronger so understand the changes, the days of roly poly forwards and office softies in the backs are long gone. I fully understand the RED and struggle with them letting George off cheaply.I just get a feeling this is going to be a season long topic?

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Rich. (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 11:49
It's impossible to judge intent normally. Spencer went in and shoulder-charged Taylor's head. Did he intend to? I doubt it but we will never know and he had the ability to go lower and use his arms but he didn't. The new guidelines make sense and players need to adapt. Spencer was always aiming his shoulder (at best) at Taylor's shoulder/neck and so he has to take the consequences. Sometimes it ruins the game which is a shame but on the occasion the momentum switched to Tigers after that so not sure it in any way changed the result and it certainly did not stop it being a great spectacle.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Peter_B (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 11:52
Wasnít there a white card for a while? Canít remember what it was issued for.



Peter

C'mon you Bristol Boys!

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
JamboBris (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 12:14
Can't see anything other than a 6 week ban for him. Absolutely no way he could be given anything other than a red given the directives for referees at present.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Steve34 (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 12:28
For what it's worth, does the game need to change the referee's and TMO mind set? With all the tech and camera angles, officials seem to be looking for a reason to send the player off instead of keeping them on pitch, even if slo-mo replays (which always make things look worse than real time) and angles are inconclusive.

I'd like a time limit placed on the review, and if after say 3 minutes the TMO can't find anything conclusive, deal with what is clear i.e. penalty only, penalty and sin bin etc., put the incident on report and let the citing officer sort it out after the match. It's worked well in Rugby League for years.

It limits game time delays and keeps teams up to their full compliment. OK some teams will benefit from this approach on game day but it should balance out across a season, and those players who are guilty of anything dangerous or reckless get banned retrospectively.

The White Card was used in Super Rugby for a season or two 7 or 8 years ago as an experiment - highlighting foul play if officials couldn't identify the offending player and the incident was referred to the citing officer fro retrospective action. The wider use of the TMO probably made this exercise redundant.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
AlexInSouthville (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 12:39
I have no doubt the majority of these headshots are not intentional, but they are definitely avoidable.

Players tackling at chest height is a purely tactical choice, where players opt (or are instructed to) try and prevent the offload.

Tackle at stomach level or lower, you wont be red carded - simple.

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Furriner (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 17:33
I thought Spencerís was a clear-out rather than a tackle? They always make me cringe because I can imagine serious injury being a hairs-breadth away, especially with todayís massive and hugely fit forwards. For me the answer is to eliminate that feature altogether, bringing back an older version of entering a ruck; ie bound to a teammate(s).

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Rich. (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 17:48
Quote:
Furriner
I thought Spencerís was a clear-out rather than a tackle? They always make me cringe because I can imagine serious injury being a hairs-breadth away, especially with todayís massive and hugely fit forwards. For me the answer is to eliminate that feature altogether, bringing back an older version of entering a ruck; ie bound to a teammate(s).

No it was a tackle in open play in open field

 
Re: Spencer v Smith Reds
Colonel1960 (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 23:00
4 week ban for Spencer

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