rugbyunion
Latest News:
Untitled Document
 

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
Worcester Match Observations
08 October, 2018 19:14
Firstly, I'll confirm I'm a long time reader of this forum, bristol rugby passionate and not a troll! Don't normally post, but my shock at the weekends performance has led me to - cathartic I hope!

Like many, I'll start by saying what a dreadful outing that was. Shocking. I've witnessed some awful moments at Sixways, but that performance was way off the scale and was truly painful to watch, not least because of it being a "bottom 6 rival". Fair play to Worcs, but my observations are about Bristol...what the hell went wrong?

I was a little surprised to see the team coach pull up at 3 minutes to 2 o'clock - is this usual preparation? (if so, fair do's but away coach is normally parked up behind south stand at the gate wen i arrive around half one i think)

Individual and collective performances were equally poor, but a few things that I left to reflect on:

Has early pre-season allowed us to peak early and now we are knackered, is the high speed 7's game plan too much for the oldies by the end of the block of pre games and it caught up with us or, have teams worked us out? Either scenario worries me since it'll only get more attritional with time in this league and at the moment we don;t have a plan B. After watching players struggling to play plan A at champ level often last year, is this an insistence on a rigid system rather than players adapting in the moment with heads up rugby?

Talking of plan A, my biggest concern was the incredibly high risk nature of throwing the ball around with gay abandon miles behind the gain line before the season started. My issue other than general execution, is incredibly easy to read as we have no variation. No effective driving mauls, forwards running hard and good lines 5 m from the ruck base. Just in / out check it down the line. What happened to being able to adapt to offer different questions in attack and thus keep powder dry for when you do go wide where there is more space because its not always expected?

My biggest worry of pre-season was seeing plan A last year and then watching forward recruitment to presumably fit this mould (i.e. mobile ball players). Half of the season is played in mud, wind and rain. Not having a chunky pack option when required to stabilise forward play in winter conditions is a concern. Any second row combo we put out (admittedly not seen Muldowny) is lightweight at this level - which, given we are playing a flanker at 8 and a very light (albeit lively) hooker compounds things.

Squad always looked like a good first 15 with questionable depth depending on how youngsters and championship recruits stepped up. At the minute, it looks to me like prop depth is yet to be proved, we have one pre lock in Vui right now and our choices at 8 are a flanker, an unproven at this level youngster and Jordan Crane. Whilst we have some young talent, they need more support - hoping for a ball carrying athletic lump from the southern hemisphere in the second row and at 8 before the weather turns to bolster pack options.

Once our first choice full backs return the wide backs are fine. Centres were ineffective on the weekend ball carrying.Both are tidy players but when you are having to make hard yards because the forwards aren't / can't / it's not part of plan A, it is way easier to nullify them as an opposition surely?

Only other things I wanted to mention were:

Half back recruitment worried me over the summer in terms of experience and depth. Losing Searle was a shame but fair do's Sheedy has done alright. Madigan was not at the races on the weekend but would like to see more game management and height on restarts a la bigger the other week.

Scrum half recruitment and "ready right now" depth looks disappointing - Uren has done ok but surely the plan was to nurture him as the season went on...not to be our starting 9!

Defense - what the hell? Is this because Muldoon is transitioning in after Thomas? Rookie coaches didn't work last time round....brave move by Lam and i hope it works!

Well - still love Bris. That's off the chest. No more "learnings" please...sort the defence, by a prem quality second row to partner Vui and a mobile smasher at 8 and think again about the 9 recruitment for the season. Give Mads his blue boots back as they seem more lucky, fingers crossed the champ props will make strides in the euro time and Charles comes back firing and we can all put the miserable memory of last weekend to bed.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Ernie Ball (IP Logged)
08 October, 2018 20:35
Excellent post exactly echoing my thoughts on recruitment.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
pacific islander (IP Logged)
09 October, 2018 07:32
+1 IMO we were very slow to counter their defensive line speed, they were almost on most breakdown offside our 9 could have possibly managed that better to our advantage.
Wuss defo done their homework to their credit, we could/should have adjusted to that quick as they were on to us from that moment ball was pick up at breakdown in their 5m. Could have sucured ruck with more numbers and used the pick and go to drag in some of their numbers.
'D' line is a big issue disjointed seemed like a lot of No communication between players on pitch IMO. Maybe having an expericed defence coach workung alongiside developing coach could be one answer? Guess there are a few bits to work on, Still think we can only get better com on Bears!

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
chuckynut (IP Logged)
09 October, 2018 12:00
Great post and observations

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
JMills (IP Logged)
09 October, 2018 14:07
Very good post.

Pat Lam must have been hoping for more from Stirzaker and expected him to be the first choice 9.

The Prop situation is very concerning. The Jersey Jake's were brought in due to their scrummaging ability but have struggled a couple of times this season, even after Worcester's starting prop had to return to the pitch following the red card.

Piers O'Connor may make an impact at Centre but I am really hoping for a couple of Southern Hemisphere signings.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
pacific islander (IP Logged)
09 October, 2018 14:29
Quote:
JMills
Very good post.
Pat Lam must have been hoping for more from Stirzaker and expected him to be the first choice 9.

The Prop situation is very concerning. The Jersey Jake's were brought in due to their scrummaging ability but have struggled a couple of times this season, even after Worcester's starting prop had to return to the pitch following the red card.

Piers O'Connor may make an impact at Centre but I am really hoping for a couple of Southern Hemisphere signings.
+1 Joshua tuisova would be great please winking smiley fast Fijian feet ?

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Morley Knibbs (IP Logged)
13 October, 2018 21:05
Interesting that Worcester with 15 changes have just stuffed Stade Francais, second in French league, in Paris. Appreciate Challenge cup not always taken seriously and dOesn't excuse our performance there, but does suggest they're a rising force rather than relegation battlers.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Redfieldman (IP Logged)
13 October, 2018 21:44
Last Sunday came as a massive shock to me - perhaps because the performances against Bath and Saracens had me feeling positive despite myself.
I had been a bit cynical about the psychology coming out of the camp (handshakes, learnings, Together we rise etc), but if we were going to win, I was quite happy to change my mind.
The nature of the Worcester defeat was what I found so desperately sad and so difficult to take. I don’t mind losing a game when we have lost a genuine contest, but to capitulate like that?
I managed to drag myself out of this Slough of Despond and went down to the Zebre game today. The boys in the team did a lot to reclaim our good name (in the first half anyway before the officials ruined the rest of the game as a spectacle IMO). However, I don’t know if I can cope with watching our sometimes reckless and always risky way of playing. We don’t seem to quite have the skill set (yet) to carry it off with enough efficiency. Ok against Zebre but the Chiefs? And more importantly Sale and Newcastle?
I hope this has just been a blip. I hope things will start to make sense when some of our injured players come back. I just find “hoping “ absolutely exhausting- I want to do some “expecting “ instead.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Bris Bob (IP Logged)
13 October, 2018 22:59
The Worcester team I witnessed last week looked a long way from Relegation material.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
thorpebayexile (IP Logged)
14 October, 2018 07:39
The problem is Bris Bob that all the teams look like they are far from relegation material. At least for some of the time.

My own reflection is that we didn't recruit well enough in the second row area. Front row recruitment was excellent.

To me rugby is a simple game. Both Saracens and Exeter follow a simple approach but do it well. Wear down the opposition over sixty minutes with forward dominance then let rip out wide and in the counter attack. Both sides are able to win games with very small possession stats.

I'm not saying that we should do the same but we will struggle to stay up just following the same game plan. If it we me I would be looking to bring in at least one more lock and a top quality inside centre. I'd be looking to allow Madigan to manage the game in a more traditional way by making ground with his great kicking game. I'd be looking to win the right to go wide.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
EverOptimistic (IP Logged)
14 October, 2018 08:33
Quote:
Redfieldman
I hope this has just been a blip. I hope things will start to make sense when some of our injured players come back. I just find “hoping “ absolutely exhausting- I want to do some “expecting “ instead.


Exactly my sentiments. I started this season 'expecting' to avoid relegation and now I'm back to optimistically 'hoping'.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Bris Bob (IP Logged)
14 October, 2018 10:00
I agree with with a large part of your post Thorpe B ,add Cheifs & Sarries excellent aggressive defence a bit like Worcester employed against us ,an area where we still seem vulnerable.I do think Vui missing hasn't help our cause but be it second or back row I feel were missing a or a couple of good forward ball carriers (Ward Smith )esc which would help achieve what your alluding to.Maybe Haining should be given a bit more of a chance.I think 9 is an area for improvement also.I think all the evidence so far points to probably the most competitive Premiership yet, but I certainly agree with your point on adapting our game plan or with my previous post lets say some clubs might be looking more likely than others for relegation.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Rich. (IP Logged)
15 October, 2018 15:24
Quote:
Bris Bob
The Worcester team I witnessed last week looked a long way from Relegation material.

They beat Stade Francais in Paris ts weekend as well! 38 - 27
The game before that they thrashed us as we know ..........
The game before that they were about 25 points up against Tigers at Welford Road (and won of course). At the time I suspect most of us maybe thought Tigers were off and then pulled their socks up and nearly won it at the end. But it seems more likely now that Worcester eased off or (more likely) tried to defend their lead and nearly got caught out in so doing.
As soon as Tigers caught up Worcester pulled themselves back together and won it at the death!

So we must have been bad against them but maybe not as bad as it might seem .........

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
tobo_ (IP Logged)
15 October, 2018 15:43
We were still bad - really really bad.

But we can take nothing away from Worcester, they're showing themselves to be a quality outfit and a lot of people (including myself) have underestimated them.

It's going to be a long season for us, saints, quins, falcons, sale, worcester and bath - it's gonna be a dogfight.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Big Dave (IP Logged)
15 October, 2018 17:18
Have we underestimated Worcester, or have we overestimated ourselves?

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
15 October, 2018 17:31

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Big Dave (IP Logged)
15 October, 2018 17:39
We also thought Newcastle were catchable in 2016. The lesson is that very, very few teams decline in the prem at all, let alone to the extent that the promoted team can catch them. In fact they progress. As it happens, when we manage to stay up our progress is likely to be much faster than both Newcastle and Worcester, I would imagine/hope, but it matters not one jot unless you can catch at least one team in the league and stay up. At the moment, I'm with the bookies on the likely end of season outcome, but there's a long while to go.

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Southstand(again) (IP Logged)
15 October, 2018 17:40

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
Peter_B (IP Logged)
15 October, 2018 17:41
With Leicester they got themselves so far behind they couldn’t afford one more score from Worcester.

Gloucester I still feel had to produce their A game to beat us and if we had scored another try they may have struggled to win.

W v us apart from two unnecessary interceptions it could just be that everything came off for them. It happens. We have had a lot of injuries and we can probably afford them least.



Peter

C'mon you Bristol Boys!

 
Re: Worcester Match Observations
T J (IP Logged)
15 October, 2018 18:03
Quote:
tobo_
We were still bad - really really bad.

This.

Let’s not kid ourselves, that performance was diabolical, was as bad as anything we saw under AR, and unless there is a sharp upturn in our performances we will be relegated, regardless of how good or bad other teams are.


Sale will hit their straps with Faf de Klerk back. Under Dean Richards Newcastle will pick up in the 2nd half of the season. What will we do?

Goto Page: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?