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Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
04 January, 2012 15:56
A pedestrian footbridge which lifts/swings is part of the current short/medium term design Rugbydon. Posters on the Scarlet turkey site seem to think footpaths are being made towards it, so that part might actually come to fruition by the time we move in. Originally a tram extension and swing bridge was also envisaged, but I've heard no details of funding. A lot more cost involved than a footbridge of course and it would take years to implement.

I can't see private coaches working either: there are too many supporters involved and there's only one junction and a single half mile spur road in. But I am expecting extra scheduled bus services to be laid on. I attended the Etihad last night and the dedicated extra 216 buses from Piccadilly Gardens worked well. £1 a head for the mile and a half.

I fear the powers that be will just schedule matches to be at times when they can just let supporters sort their own travel arrangements. I expect we will mostly have to get used to allowing an extra half hour to walk to the ground. It's what many thousand city fans seem to do from the city centre, anyway.
Pretty soon any Salford Reds supporters with car park passes will be giving lifts and cars and buses will fill up, but most will be obliged to walk: mere pragmatism.

Whether access will be ok for the 2-5000 more attendees for SS matches is anyone's guess. We won't be the only ones watching with interest. I reckon that is also one of the reasons why discussions are pretty drawn out.
BK wants to see how it works for Reds.

I expect to be walking back along the canal just as i did last night eventually. But to, say, the Makro car park rather than a Piccadilly station.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
P A B (IP Logged)
04 January, 2012 21:01
Just looked again at google map of the area & whats really annoying is that the distance from the car parks of JJB soccerdome/chill factor over a fictional footbridge to the ground would be just under 1km which would be an easy 15 min stroll. The comparable distance from the Grand central CP I use when going to EP is apx 700m. So a simple footbridge could solve loads of problems for minimal cost. Its totally baffling how this proposal where ALL traffic is forced to use the A57 ever got passed. Even the Reebok which also only has one near motorway junction is served by other A roads so traffic can approach from different directions. Think we will all be monitoring how Salfords first few games get on. However its not a true comparison as probably 95% of Salford support comes from N of the ship canal wheras 95% of ours comes from S of the canal.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
bryanh (IP Logged)
04 January, 2012 21:22
I have read this with interest over the last few weeks and for me I hope we dont move, I quite like my 5 min walk from the car park into the ground and my 20 min drive to stockport.

When we moved from Heywood Road it took me 18 months to go to a game a EP, and I seem to like the old ground as you are very close to the action

I have been to Halliwell Jones, to watch a game of RL and I was not impressed with the atmosphere but that is just me.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
J Moon (IP Logged)
04 January, 2012 22:15
The more I think of it, the more I hope we really don't move into this ground.

I'm not bothered about the transport links, facilities or whatever. It's just purely for the ground. I'm a man who has visited something like 37 Football grounds and 10 Rugby grounds. I like to go to new ones when I can.

I would hate for Sale to spend years playing in a bland, Lego Land like ground with no character at all. It is a nice ground for what it is and it's great for Salford to be moving into something like that, don't get me wrong. But Edgeley Park is better. I might not have been in it but it just looks as horrible as Shrewsbury Town, Warrington Wolves, Colchester United, Chesterfield, the list goes on.

No thank you.

The paranoia of people thinking we're going to try to take over on their forum makes me laugh, but it is understandable. We've had years to look at getting our own ground, Kennedy has mentioned we need 15k on a regular basis or whatever to achieve this. So we knew we were never gonna get one of our own. But it would be annoying as a Salford fan when they're due to open the season next month if we leave it until late to announce it. If from day one it was a joint venture then it would appear fine, but it's not a wonder people think of Sale Sharks as a club who are trying to bully other teams. Maybe it's just bad PR or nothing has actually been decided, but if the decisions have been made and they just don't want to announce them yet then I think it's a bit unfair.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 22:20 by J Moon.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
04 January, 2012 22:44
You can actually find out what it's like this Saturday for about £13.20, J Moon. They have a friendly vs Centurians.

I also thought this was noteworthy
Quote:
Salford Reds website.
Incredibly the Reds are also announcing that there is only one price band for the entire stadium! In what we believe is a first for top level sport in the UK supporters can choose to stand or sit in any area where there is availability for the same price! That means a centre seat in the fabulous new West Stand will cost just £70 for an adult member for the entire season! If you prefer to stand it is the same low price for every game in the entire 2012 season!....
Premier and Premier+ membership is available for a low weekly cost and paid via Direct Debit meaning a family of four could buy four passes for the entire season and only pay £140 up front – something we hope will be a very welcome benefit in the run up to the expensive Christmas season.

For the more casual (or perhaps international) fans there is the new Reds Membership tier for just £1 per week – this level isn’t eligible for the match passes, but can get a free Discount Entry card which vastly reduces the cost of admission on a match by match basis.

Each level of membership comes with incredible added value that makes it an even better deal, and all of the benefits are detailed in the brochure that is linked on this page and will be dropping into supporters’ mailboxes over the next week or so.

The new Premier+ membership is the most exciting and provides the most bang for your buck including a chance to sample the superb hospitality in the new stadium with a free upgrade – perfect for a special occasion throughout the season, be it a birthday or an anniversary, or just for a quick FREE nosey at how ‘the other half’ live. Premier level members can also benefit from this through a 50% discount.

Changes in the way juniors watch the Reds also come into effect with Reds Membership now free of charge to Under 12s who can pay just £10 for a Match Pass for the season!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2012 22:48 by H's D.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
04 January, 2012 23:28
I agree PAB.

The Reebok is a new(ish) ground that was actually thought about when built. In addition to road access from various directions including the motorway, there is a train station, bus service and plenty of parking. Even so it took us 1hr to get out of the ground after the Sale Sharks game last year! A ground share with Bolton FC would probably make more sense!

Regarding the idea of a footbridge over the Ship Canal, I think this should be located 'south' of the Trafford Centre/Chill Factor. This would avoid the need to negotiate J9 or 10 into towards the Trafford Centre, (a regular bottleneck),for the majority of supporters. It would need to have significant parking, coach parking / turning and good access. I haven't researched it but the use of existing carparking (unused Friday nights) if possible would be ideal.

The lack of Access and Parking at Barton seems to be the 'Elephant in the Room' for Sale Sharks. Now they have gone public on the desire to move to Barton, why don't they address this fundemental issue with the supporters so we can all be stakeholders in the decision. I and many other supporters of many decades desperately want to continue to support Sale Sharks but cant if we cant get there!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 07:44
The proposed footbridge/swingbridge was immediately North of the Barton bridge, right in it's shadow. Imbetween it and the soccer dome. It was included as part of the WGis.

Whether it is still going to be built may be in doubt, but the Western Gateway Infrastructure scheme (WGis) and Port Salford were both included in the last set of government approvals in the autumn.
South of the bridge a recycling plant prevents any access.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2012 08:36 by H's Dad...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 10:07
Thanks H'sD,

Yes, I was aware that the bridge is planned to the north of Barton Bridge. I recall that the proposed bridge is intended to carry the extended tramline also buses. As you say, this is someway off, indeed if it ever happens. I would estimate a minimum of 5 years; I imagine that Sale Sharks need to deliver 10.000 spectators per game the first year with expectations of expansion in the future.

My bridge idea is for a light footbridge, but it would need to lift or swing. I take the point about the recycling plant but the bridge could be a bit further down the canal to the south of Barton Bridge; but I haven't researched if it's feasible.

Barton is a great idea I can't see how Sale can commit to a tenancy until adequate access is guaranteed!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 15:20
When the original WGis was in doubt because of it's over-reliance on roads, the Peel planners proposed a road/pedestrian and tram bridge. When the tram extension failed to get sanctioned, they then proposed a lifting footbridge!
All possible options appear to have been looked at, but it remains to be seen which, if any, will eventually be adopted.


I think most SS supporters will be walking a distance of a couple of miles to Barton come September for at least the first 2 or 3 seasons. I reckon the on-site car park will mostly be used by the old, incapacitated and infirm.

I've assessed that its pretty much what 10,000 city fans (1 in 4) appear to do for their home matches, so perhaps we are exaggerating the difficulties and inconvenience.
We are just not used to it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2012 15:25 by H's Dad...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 15:34
Quote:
H's Dad
I reckon the on-site car park will mostly be used by the old, incapacitated and infirm.

Whilst I note the word 'mostly' aren't the corpulents likely to be shoving aside the plebs?



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 16:17
Of course the car park will be used by the corporates. There may be a few left but they will go nowhere near to covering the
older,
The infirm
Those who don't have the time to add the extra hour or so to their day out
the very young,
those (mainly children I guess) who have played rugby that day/ played another sport and are due to play rugby the next/
been at work/ school all day if Friday.
Aren't really that keen on going but are prepared to be dragged along if it's easy to get there.

(I have brought people myself who fit into all those categories. Not all the same person of course.I am sure there are other groups that could be added)

It may well be that 1/4 of a football teams support can easily walk a mile or two there and back

I am sure that 1/4 of Sale supporters could do the same. But we are not talking about a quarter, we appear to be talking about the vast majority.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2012 17:10 by Frodo Shark.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Thinking Donkey (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 17:11
Frankly, based on my back of an envelope calculations, I don't see have Barton can ever stack up on a capacity of 12,000 even if you assumed 90% capacity for pretty much all competitive games.

Plus, as EP has a capacity of 10,600 why run all the risk for an extra 1,400 seats. Much better to wait and let the traffic sort itself out (or not), establish regular capacity gates at EP and then look at it again.

One 9,000 gate against Newcastle doesn't mean we are on our way to the 15,000 regular gate need to become the Northern powerhouse of rugby union. That said I doubt funding will be readily available for possible expansion at Barton to 20,000 - so if the master plan starts to take off we would rapidly be in a new ground that is too small.

This does not make financial sense at the moment. How about Barton only being a lever to get some action from SMBC?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
SIGGAH (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 17:53
thinking D

Barton is not an all seater stadium. the total capacity is 12000, with 7000 seats of which approximately 800 are to be given over to corporate clients/hospitality. behind each end is terracing for 2500 each end.

I personally think that a reduction in the actual seats available is a negative and the club should consider a survey of suporters asking if they would still attend/ buy st etc if it was standing only.

On the above figures the last home game pulled in just over 9000, if the game had been played at barton 2000+ would have been standing.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 17:56
Quote:
SIGGAH
thinking D
On the above figures the last home game pulled in just over 9000, if the game had been played at barton 2000+ would have been standing.

After possibly having walked a mile or two to get there and have the same to look forward to on the way back!!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 18:02
All good points gentlemen, but is anyone listening?
Therein lies the rub.
Perhaps twittering it would be a better idea?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 18:09
However, we still don't know if the move is on. There might be an announcement in 4 to 6 weeks, but then again there might not be.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 18:20
Quote:
H's Dad..
All good points gentlemen, but is anyone listening?
Therein lies the rub.
Perhaps twittering it would be a better idea?

I know you know this because it is just an expansion of something you put on the other thread, but here goes anyway.

There is no point us twittering it, because no one at the club would read our twitterings anyway. That is why we need someone from the club on here and why Swanny and the rest twittering means that it's one sided.

I understand why Swanny left here as he did take a huge amount of unfair abuse from certain individuals. But it does mean now that whilst the club is apparently giving out loads of information,we can safely be ignored more than before.

Does anyone know whether the supporters committees ever met again?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
MikeGC (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 18:24
Quote:
Frodo
Does anyone know whether the supporters committees ever met again?

Was there even an initial meeting ?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 18:34
Yes Mike. There were a number of meetings, minutes posted on official website and discussed on this board.

It seems a long time now since I heard about one taking place, but a re-birth was promised on here



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2012 18:55 by Frodo Shark.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 18:47
H's Dad, I have no problem at all walking a couple of miles to Barton; I too have done it loads of times from Piccadilly to Sports City either to the Etihad Stadium or the Velodrome.

But at Barton, where do you walk from? Presumably Eccles Tram Stop; I don't think I'll get away with walking over Barton Bridge.

If Rugby Union was a Summer sport I would cycle and use the Barton swing bridge. Maybe some of the Salford Reds supporters will cycle. Another option would be to walk along the north side of the canal from Barton swing bridge. Obviously the B&Q carpark will be in use but I wonder if there is anywhere to park near there?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 19:23
I was thinking north side of the canal to the swing bridge and parking at Makro.
Without a footbridge it seems the only option unless pedestrians flood the road to the motorway. The pavements are pretty narrow in parts.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
P A B (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 19:40
Its apx 2 mi from B&Q car park - assuming B&Q dont mind a few thousand sports fans clogging up the cp. Most likely is that all nearby cp's eg Makro/B&Q will start having 2hr parking limits to prevent sports fans using them.
The fact that 5K seats are standing is going to make the pricing of seats (should we move) very tricky, no one who currently sits in the cheadle end is going to stand UNLESS the price is seriously reduced. So the club would have to up the prices of the seated area to compensate. Its probably only those in the open Railway end who would be swapping sitting in the open to standing under cover where the price could stay the same.
An interesting snipet was in todays MEN article about Salford reds, this weeks friendly at Barton has a restricted 5K attendance limit. Looks like they are very concerned with sorting out the logistics of supporters getting in & out !!!!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 21:42
P A B: A maximum of 5K attendance to the RL Barton Friendly? How are they going to police that? I would have thought a lot of spectators will turn up on spec, particularly to a Stadium that can hold far more than are likely to come.

Just speculation, but is the Stadium forced to apply a maximum of 5k until the supporting traffic plan (ie: infrastructure - bridge!) is in place. This is not uncommon in planning consents!

If this is the case, it's of no use to Sale Sharks until the maximum numbers are allowed!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 22:58
As far as I know each stadium operates with a reduced number on "opening night". Certain safety features have, I believe, to be tested before a licence is issued.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
scrum30 (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 23:15
without having a go at salford reds,but when did they last get over 5000 for a home game???

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Olyy (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 23:19
Got over 10,000 for their last home game winking smiley


Though that may or may not have been because it was the last game at The Willows tongue sticking out smiley

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Toothless Shark (IP Logged)
05 January, 2012 23:42
Reading the scarlet turkey website it would appear that the parking available at the stadium has to be booked in advance through ticketmaster and there is currently no concept of a parking season ticket.

I am all for staying at EP

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
WiganSaler (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 07:33
Move to Barton got seal of approval from old boy "Dewi" The Rugby Club last night. He reckons we need to make this move if the club wants to fulfil its ambitions, Greenwood agreed. Suspect parking will sort itself out. There does seem to be lots of on street parking either side of the Mway in and around the underpass less than a mile from the ground. But without trawling through all the posts I suspect this has already been discussed and discounted. I for one am more than prepared to follow the club because being naive I can't believe the council, Salford Reds, Peel Holdings, are all idiots and haven't addresses the parking situation, but I could of course be very wrong. In terms of getting there and getting back home not a problem that I can see from Wigan, Jn 21 M6 for me and down the A57.



--------------------------------------------------
Wigan "Home for the Bewildered"

Fully paid up member of the LSSSSC.
"Long Suffering Sale Sharks Supporters Club"

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 08:19
Olyy. Yes it was . I selected 5 home games at random last year, deliberately ignoring that one as I knew they had had some celebrations and that the crowd would be affected. The average for those five was 3,800. It was a random sample and may not have been sufficient to give a proper picture, but I suspect that's not too far from the truth.

Wigan. I heard Dewi Morris say that too. I wonder whether he has thought about transport issues. Doubt it. I was actually thinking of asking him. Presumably there is some way of contacting him through Sky.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 08:35
I wouldn't rely on roadside parking; plans for local match-day parking bans have been drawn up by Salford Council. Their use up and beyond the motorway has been promised to local residents at a recent public meeting in order to allay their concerns.
I'm also not sure whether any of those supervising bodies are aware of the large area that Sharks supporters come from, or their current travel arrangements. I don't think such things come under planning rules. That's for prospective tenants to look into.
I think the stadium has approval on the basis of the proposed WGis being delivered prior to any further development taking place. I think they accept it may well be a little congested in the interrim but are relying on a lot of Salford supporters walking along the Liverpool Road (A57) or using the 67 bus service that runs along it. That isn't likely to work for most SS supporters BUT they may well find the X50 express service to the Trafford centre from Piccadilly Gardens and/or the 100 bus service (from the Trafford Bus station to Barton) very useful. Both are every 15 minutes or so. I expect both will have extra buses at relevant times on matchdays



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 12:14 by H's Dad...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 14:52
H's Dad, In my experience Planners are very interested in any disruption to local residents and a 'sustainable' travel plan must demonstrate that the access can work adequately. It seems something has gone wrong in the case of Barton Stadium. Forgive my cynicism, but Salford CC may be a lot more concerned if they hadn't funded the Stadium.

On route down the M60 today I diverted over the Barton swing bridge to do a little research. It seems quite possible to access the area south of Barton swing bridge by car avoiding the motorway, park up and then walk across the bridge and along the canal to the Stadium.

There are two caveats however:
1 There is no parking! There is plenty of kerbside parking on the wide approach roads and parking in several businesses, eg: B&Q. I suppose the local office parking would suddenly become available (at a price) as with many football clubs.
2 The footpath running from the end of Langland Drive to the Stadium along the canal has a sign saying 'Private Property, Manchester Ship Canal Co'. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem though, since Peel are part of the development.

My anticipated approach would therefore be:
*North along the Chester Road from Alty,
*Turn onto Park Rd at Stretford,
*Turn left at Barton Bridge Road,
*Park just before the swing bridge,
*Walk (approx 2m) to the ground.
*PS: There's a half decent looking Pub near the bridge to celebrate Sale's win.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 15:18
You miss my point rugdydon: planners are only concerned with Salford Reds use of the stadium. IMHO they haven't looked much beyond that.

The stadiums green travel plan was submitted to Salford Council on the 4th Jan, but judging by it's manifestation on the Salford Stadium website it is pretty rudimentary and barely more than a flyer. Geared solely for travel from Salford and environs.

The equivalent travel plan for the Trafford Centre is far more well thought out and developed. Catering for travel from all over greater Manchester.

IMHO a well placed footbridge between the two would address most concerns



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 15:23 by H's Dad...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 16:50
H's Dad,

Thanks for pointing that out; so presumably the Planning Consent is geared to the named user! It's not common and apparently difficult to support legally. My office had such a consent a while ago and when we sold it the new owner had to get his own consent, although a planning consultant told us it could be successfully appealed.

Would I therefore be right to assume that Sale Sharks (or the Stadium owner, Salford CC?) would need to apply for consent for Sales Shark's use. The point here being that a new travel plan would be required and under present circumstances unlikely to be granted! A further important point is that such an application would take a long time, delaying any contract for Sale Sharks lease, plans to move Sale Sharks operation to Barton and plans to sell season tickets to the ground.

I would like to see Sale Sharks critical path plan for the move. Looks like it could be delayed till 2013/14 season.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 17:06
No not at all, it's just that the Green Travel Plan appears to just focus on the current proposed use by Salford Reds.
It doesn't appear to consider other prospective users.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 17:10
The permission is not aimed at a named user - as you say, Rugbydon, that is rare - and the condition is not geared that way either. If anything it is geared towards the impact on the M60. Which can be taken many ways.

My opinion is that flyer is not a GTP in any way shape or form and nor does it comply with Condition 12, which is quite specific about what is required. (And 'a footbridge' is not the answer to the question!)

I won't say much more on that.

Where have you seen the thing about Jan 4th, H's Dad? I presume you're not referring to the flyer for the reasons above, but I didn't see anything on the Salford CC site earlier in the week.

In respect of Sale needing permission, my quick reading of the conditions is that they wouldn't, partly because it's not a 'personal permission'. See also condition 27 which I can't copy and paste. (Basically starts off with 'Any events for the stadium or pitch other than sporting events (such as open air concerts) shall be notified in writing to the Local Planning Authority no less than 8 weeks in advance etc., etc., planning waffle, planning waffle...')



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 17:35
In the public access weekly submissions part of the council's website "Request for confirmation of compliance of conditions 12, 23, 43, 46, 47, 48, 52, 53 and 55 attached to planning permission 11/60383/HYBEIA "
It merely records it has been applied for on Jan 4th , but no details are given.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 18:10
Now the club have acknowledged they are considering Barton this the time for the SSSC to swing into action. I don’t know if the SSSC has had any dialogue with the club over Barton but it is key to do so and raise the supporters concerns as a recognised supporters body.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 18:35
H's d. That's showing as unavailable now.

Very strange

Edited to Add

The link that Mozzer posted to Condition 27 just above is broken too!!

First game tomorrow! Completion being questioned.

Maybe just because I have watched a couple of X-Files but,

Conspiracy anyone?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 21:19 by Frodo Shark.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 18:54
HsD,

Like FrodoShark, I couldn't open the Salford Planning link either.

It's worth commenting that a full Planning Consent with all conditions discharged for this Stadium (which is shortly to be used by Salford Reds) will be deemed to satisfy all access requirements for 12,000 supporters to a sporting event no matter where they come from.

Ha! (Sm123)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 19:09
Presumably since the stadium has been designed with a retrofit up to 24,000, the access must be adequate for that?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 23:29
No conspiracy, someone has just submitted a totally different application which has broken the link.
Try this one

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Toothless Shark (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 23:32
That link doesn't seem to work either

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 23:46
Grumpy - NO!
If you follow this thread or look at the relevant planning docs, you will realize no other development is permitted until the Western gateway infrastructure scheme (WGis or WGes)is fully implemented.
That involves construction of the road shown here:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTy_ObEvO2h66Ud-pV9AV2NnEwXggvTZsxfbgR9RJ5yhYGAgH9GlNFsxi8VlA
or
http://www.google.co.uk/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://i49.tinypic.com/3150i6f.jpg&sa=X&ei=_YYHT8yXD8ag8QOizvCbAQ&ved=0CAsQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNGWIU6mqXe4x4pyXBN1Dbtz17ckyA

Clearly defined planning pre-conditions before the retail centre, Port Salford or stadium enlargement can take place as proposed here.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
06 January, 2012 23:56
It still works for me toothless.
By all means access it yourself, type "public access planning Salford Council" into google
You'll get the right page on the top link, if you then click view weekly/monthly applications and then click search (week beginning 2nd Jan is the default)........
Third application down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 23:57 by H's D.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 00:03
Quote:
Salford public access site
Planning » Application Summary
Help with this page (opens in a new window)
12/61288/DISCON | Request for confirmation of compliance of conditions 12, 23, 43, 46, 47, 48, 52, 53 and 55 attached to planning permission 11/60383/HYBEIA | Land Between The Manchester Ship Canal Liverpool Road Eccles

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Summary Further Information Contacts Important Dates
Reference: 12/61288/DISCON
Alternative Reference:
Application Received: 04 Jan 2012
Address: Land Between The Manchester Ship Canal Liverpool Road Eccles
Proposal: Request for confirmation of compliance of conditions 12, 23, 43, 46, 47, 48, 52, 53 and 55 attached to planning permission 11/60383/HYBEIA
Status: Pending Consideration
Appeal Status:
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Re: Blue seats At Barton
Davenport Sharky (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 06:42
I think this move is potentially financial suicide. Friday night rugby already repeatedly the most popular time for established fans, would be impossible with long walks or public transport options. Like many having finished work barely have time to get to EP and it 5 mins in the car. Dreaming of attracting news fans while not prioritising your regular custom is folly.
I have mentioned this a number of times but the last few thousand seats available in a ground of EP or Bartons size are poor seats often poor value for money. Try sitting low down in the corner at EP and what a poor experience that is for the occasional fan after a long walk to the ground. IB and BK need to put themselves in fans shoes for this. There is considerable resentment on here from people who are largely Sharks mad so goodness knows the affect on more ordinary fans.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 09:05
It would be interesting to know what market research has been done amongst existing supporters. I get the feeling the club are relying on access improving with the W.G.e.s. and are expecting lower or similar attendances to now for the first couple of seasons. Reassurances about local travel arrangements, W.G.e.s. timetable, timing of matches etc are long overdue if talks are well advanced.
One hears concerns being voiced by most supporters if Barton and travel are mentioned
As far as I am concerned a decision to move there has already been made. One doesn't enter into detailed discussions for six months unless one is determined to sort a deal that works for all parties.

Lots of hurdles are apparent re developments at SS....a lot not even mentioned in public currently...
I gather Carrington is/was booked as an Olympics training facility for this summer: surely a pretty lucrative booking?
How will that impinge on the proposed building works?
Will they start before the end of the Olympics?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2012 09:21 by H's Dad...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Flyingshark (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 09:43
Quote:
Davenport Sharky
I think this move is potentially financial suicide. Friday night rugby already repeatedly the most popular time for established fans.

But what you have to realise though Davenport, is that there is simply not enough of those "established fans"

And never has been. You allude to the difficulties you experience with only a 5 minute drive.

We have NEVER reached the required numbers even in our glory season with marquee names and success on the pitch.

Something MUST change... I'm only surprised they haven't tried a match time change in isolation before a ground move AND a time change.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
pitprop (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 11:02
quote=Davenport Sharky]Friday night rugby already repeatedly the most popular time for established fans.[/quote]

Not so DS. I think we can claim to be established supporters (since '95). We attend almost every Friday night game, but are delighted when they are switched to a Saturday or Sunday daytime slot, and given the choice would prefer to transition to a daytime slot for all games.

And to me the most striking statement in the "Port Salford Interactive Brochure" (linked by H'sD) is "The highway works will start on completion of the stadium". Don't think its been specifically highlighted before - if so apologies. And the sooner the better.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 11:21
Funding for the WGes was finally approved in November.

One should however be pretty sceptical about road-building starting immediately. As Tigger pointed out in Mid November they were given 10 years to commence works as a lot of consultation and technical stuff has to be sorted before works . It may not start for a few years yet!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2012 12:00 by H's Dad...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 12:31
Top marks to Hsd & Dad for their research and links; far exceeding my paltry IT skills.

I've printed what I believe are relevant parts of the glossy brochure.

It's all pretty clear really:
#The WGIs will need to be in place for subsequent development, ie: retail, Haulage Depot, Stadium expansion to 20k!
#The WGIs will be commenced on completion of the Stadium in it's present form.
#By deduction the WGIs will not be needed for the Stadium in it's present form!
#Planning consent (& funding approval?) is in place for the WGIs.
#So far as use is concerned it states that the Stadium will be used for the Rugby League Super season (Salford Reds) and Community use.

One remaining grey area for me: I realise the Stadium consent is not named for the user(s) but the brochure does specifically state it's use! ie: Rugby League Super Season and Community Use, whatever that is? As these columns have pointed out, Sale Sharks have different access problems to Salford Reds! Also, I understand 'Community Use' includes 'Concerts'. Access from across the NW to a sell out concert could test the patience of local residents.

Looks as if I'll need to invest in a new pair of walking boots.

Western Gateway Infrastructure Scheme
The highway works in connection to Salford Gateway are known as the Western Gateway Infrastructure Scheme (WGIS). The works are highlighted on the aerial photograph on the back page and include improvements to the M60 motorway between Junctions 10 and 11 and a new road link between the A57 and the Trafford Centre.
The new road will be achieved with a new lift bridge over the Manchester Ship Canal and provisions will be made to allow for the future expansion of the public transport system.
The WGIs highway works are required as part of the Port Salford Development to reduce traffic on local roads and relieve peak time congestions on the M60 Barton Bridge.

The stadium will be the home of Salford Reds and a superb new community sports facility
available for everyone to enjoy.
The new Stadium will be open for the start of the 2012 Rugby Super League Season and available for community use from early 2012. It will be a rugby ‘centre of excellence’ for Salford Reds, their academy and the wider community.

Planning
Planning permission has been granted for a multimodal freight interchange comprising 154,500 sq.m. (1,663,024 sq.ft.) of rail served distribution warehousing, rail link and sidings, intermodal and ancillary facilities including a canal quay. Also consented is a new canal crossing and highway improvements as part of the Western Gateway Infrastructure Scheme, 21,367 sq.m. (229,992 sq.ft.) of non-food bulk retail development and a 20,000 seat sports stadium

Phasing
The site’s planning permission requires the supporting highway works (WGIS) to be completed prior
to the occupation of the warehousing. The highway works will start on completion of the Stadium,
allowing for construction of the first phase of Port Salford.
The retail scheme will also be constructed to coincide with the completion of the highway works.
Salford City Stadium will be completed by the end of 2011.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 14:07
"Improvements to the M60 motorway between junctions 10 and 11..." may be somewhat debatable: after works are completed you will no longer be able to exit the M60 at junction 11, the Barton turn, from the south, nor will you be able to join the M60 and head south. All such traffic will be obliged to use Junction 10, the main Trafford Centre turn, crossing the canal via the new bridge.
That could well be problematic near Xmas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2012 14:09 by H's D.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
P A B (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 23:09
By pure coincidence I was on the M60 going clockwise past Barton at 1:40 today (20 mins b4 ko). There was a queue on the J11 exit slip almost back to the motorway & that was with a 5K limit. The queue was longer on the anticlockwise side to J11 - but thats to be expected given Salfords catchment area. So imagine a 9K crowd for us where 95% are coming from the south & the queue is going to go back right to J9/10. There is going to be no chance of any stadium enlargement before that new road gets built & it still does not address the problem of where to park....
BTW Salford got smashed by Leigh - their fans are not v happy, saw one comment about paying £5 parking & it being easier to go to Huddersfield !!!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Olyy (IP Logged)
07 January, 2012 23:21
I shall be sampling the delights of Barton in the summer (June 1st I think?) - going to watch the Catalans match there
Hopefully the travel gubbins has been sorted by then (more than mid-season in the SL, so presumably will be)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 10:09
Scarlet supporters reactions to a 12-36 loss to a struggling team in the league below!
Not unlike that on here when times are bad...(Sm14)

Worthy noting that only 2818 attended this friendly, nevertheless significant queuing occurred to get off motorway.
However little moaning about traffic delays or queues on their site so far.

Some glitches at ticket office which have already been apologized for.
Floodlight teething problems.
Lack of roofs on toilets in the south stand meant that the rear of this stand had to be closed as they had a grandstand view! Poor design or unfinished?

Teething problems we will thankfully avoid.

Great views from West Stand.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2012 10:32 by H's D.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Timpers (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 10:34
Just a thought, but if 95% of the support is coming from the south, resulting in a huge queue of traffic, just go past the junction, turn round, and approach from the north. Better still don't, as that's the direction I'll be coming from. Such a ruse works at Old Trafford metro for those heading towards Altrincham.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Barend (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 11:14
Is the 95% an official statistic?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 11:37
I would be surprised it it were 95%, but it would seem considerably more come from 'the south', if only of Greater Manchester. I'm to the west, and there must be others to the east. There is, for many of us, the possibility of coming in from the north or the south of the ship canal. Perhaps, even, I'll get a boat and come along it. Timpers' advice could come in handy for many of us westerners.

Of course most opposition supporters will be coming from the south. There ain't too much north of us in Premiership terms.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 12:02
From the stadium's website:

Something Extra Special

All of our guests have the option to travel to our venue in pure luxury. A private helicopter charter service is available for both corporate and private clients of the stadium

Problem solved!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Toothless Shark (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 15:28
Given the poor support and the allegedly dire performance if I was BK I'd wait a season. Who knows how cheap the rent might be once it becomes apparent that Salford won't have their franchise renewed.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Whaley Shark (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 18:29
Quote:
Grumpy Old Shark
From the stadium's website:
Something Extra Special

All of our guests have the option to travel to our venue in pure luxury. A private helicopter charter service is available for both corporate and private clients of the stadium....

....then it lands in the Trafford Centre car park and you can wait for the shuttle bus along with the peasantry

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 18:58
I'm not sure travelling by helicopter ever qualifies as "pure luxury", wherever it lands.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 20:29
Presumably it would land at Barton Aerodrome! (Sm132)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
wildgeese61 (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 21:46
After having been to the recent Salford v Leigh match at the new stadium all I can say is, if Sale do move there then be prepared for a lot of travel delays, I and other supporters had to get off the bus in Eccles and walk to the ground due to the roads being gridlocked at the roundabout off the M60, not only supporters but shoppers for the trafford centre all in the same place at the same time, it was horrendous

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
P A B (IP Logged)
08 January, 2012 22:27
thks wildgeese, unfortunately this just confirms our worst fears & there were less than 3K at the match. Dread to think what will happen if Salford start getting 8K+...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 08:02
Another Salford poster on scarlet turkey using the 67 bus along Liverpool Road indicated 20 minute plus delay from the Unicorn pub onwards to negotiate the Barton motorway roundabout.

It appears walking may well end up being the quickest method for the last mile or so.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 08:27
In view of the probable/inevitable problems with the roads until/if the metro-link is completed, perhaps aquatic transport may be a solution?

I'm fairly sure that a shuttle runs on match days from the Mark Addy to Old Trafford to avoid the traffic ~ maybe something similar could work?

Are there any canal side pubs with parking to the west?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 08:50
Not for a couple of thousand cars!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 09:22
Grumpy, There used to be a rowing boat ferry from Partington to the north side of the canal years ago; I used it a few times on walks and once with a bike! I don't think it runs now!

I'm sure it would be easy enough to contrive temporary water crossings; apart from ferrys, how about a temporary 'bailey bridge, or to use another military solution, some floating pontoons. These could be stored for use on match days so as not to disrupt water traffic. Also I would have thought that a pedestrian crossing at Barton Locks would be possible. I bet there's a few entrepeneurs who would be delighted to set these up.

I would have thought Peel/Manchester Ship Canal would cooperate since the Barton Stadium and Salford Gateway is their 'baby'!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
iBozz (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 09:52
Quote:
There used to be a rowing boat ferry from Partington to the north side of the canal years ago

Perhaps Sale Sharks should recommence the service with Captain Swanny in command - they could call their majestic vessel the SS SS!

I'll launch it by smashing a bottle of Diet Coke over the bows.



I'll get my coat ...



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

http://smileygenerator.us/smileytags/links/smiley_tag.0103287001410624489.gif

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 12:58
I like that idea iBozz!

What about some imput from Salford City Council and Peel Holdings in these columns (or elsewhere) about access issues.

The most important stakeholders in a successful Stadium are the spectators. The numerous comments in these columns are not made with malice, but with genuine puzzlement as to what the hecks going on; a Stadium without adequate access; Why?

Is this a giant cock-up?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 13:26
Are you sure we just haven't got unrealistic expectations Rugbydon.
In one sense is it not also a case of " we don't know what we've got till it's gone"?
EP has been pretty good in respect of travelling times for those living to the south of Manchester. I can get to the ground in about half an hour by train and foot.

However is it unrealisic to expect it to take much less than an hour to get to any large sporting event where 8000 plus attend?

It took around that for me to get to the Etihad last week.
Was that much more than the average for car drivers?

Clearly the planners at Salford were adamant that an enlarged stadium needs the W.G.i/e.s. to be functioning before any further building associated with this area takes place.
Salford Reds have arranged two park and ride schemes and have encouraged both their use and walking.
Is the underlying problem not just minor: an understandable lack of adequate take-up at this early stage?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2012 16:23 by H's Dad...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 15:07
I hope you're right H's Dad,

I've spent my professional life around 'Planning and Development' and there doesn't seem to be much doubt to me that 'sustainable transport issues' on Barton Stadium have slipped under the radar somewhere.

Supporters are keen and resourceful; I have no doubt that everyone will find ways of getting to Sale Games eventually just as they do to many older Stadia in the country which were built without adequate access, parking and transport. But it's obvious it won't be without a lot of queues, @#$%&-off residents and delays.

The whole point of a new Stadium is to get these issues right. They have done so at the Etihad and the Reebok for example. Admittedly the tram access at the Etihad is a little slow coming but it's a short walk from parking, and the tram and train in Manchester Centre.

I'm quite concerned about it and find the lack of comment from Sale Sharks and the Stadium Developer significant; I suspect they are hoping the issue will resolve itself and just go away.

I don't think it will.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
P A B (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 19:05
I accept that at present this is all conjecture, like the stories pre EP about going to Maine Rd or Gigg Ln none of which turned out to be true. BUT I dont accept we should be worse off travel wise if we move, this is a new stadium not one built 100yrs ago. Supposedly new stadiums are easy to get to even with 10000 others doing the same. It seems to me we could be moving to a far worse location - access/parking wise with 3.5K fewer seats. For what ? A few extra corporate boxes and 1.5K extra capacity. If you scan the Salford Reds board you will find plenty of adverse comments about the view from the standing areas. sounds little better than the Jim Birtles - apart from there being no pillars in the way. Apparently the terrace incline is not great and one only has 22 steps. The true test will be when Salford have played a few Super League fixtures. I hope BK is sending some undercover spies in to report back on the 'fans' experience !!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Toothless Shark (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 19:16
Quote:
Rugbydon
I hope you're right H's Dad,
I've spent my professional life around 'Planning and Development' and there doesn't seem to be much doubt to me that 'sustainable transport issues' on Barton Stadium have slipped under the radar somewhere.

Supporters are keen and resourceful; I have no doubt that everyone will find ways of getting to Sale Games eventually just as they do to many older Stadia in the country which were built without adequate access, parking and transport. But it's obvious it won't be without a lot of queues, @#$%&-off residents and delays.

The whole point of a new Stadium is to get these issues right. They have done so at the Etihad and the Reebok for example. Admittedly the tram access at the Etihad is a little slow coming but it's a short walk from parking, and the tram and train in Manchester Centre.

I'm quite concerned about it and find the lack of comment from Sale Sharks and the Stadium Developer significant; I suspect they are hoping the issue will resolve itself and just go away.

I don't think it will.

A little slow? It was supposed to be in place for the Commonwealth Games. That makes it ten years late by my reckoning.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 19:22
Fair comment 'Toothless' : Fast Forward to the "Salford Gateway Brochure" :

Phasing
The site’s planning permission requires the supporting highway works (WGIS) to be completed prior
to the occupation of the warehousing. The highway works will start on completion of the Stadium,
allowing for construction of the first phase of Port Salford.
The retail scheme will also be constructed to coincide with the completion of the highway works.
Salford City Stadium will be completed by the end of 2011.


If you believe that, you believe in Fairies!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
09 January, 2012 22:26
I believe if fairies then...it sounds like a potential Catch 22........
Note

"The highway works will start on completion of the Stadium"
and
"..also consented is a .....20,000 seat sports stadium"

i.e. it's currently around 8,500 seats and 3,500 standing: INCOMPLETE.Stage 1 Phase 1...... with two more phases (15000 then 20,000) to complete the stadium.

The application was "for the erection of a 20,000 capacity community stadium with associated integrated facilities including offices, players facilities, hospitality, concessions and community, executive and media rooms to be constructed in 3 phases..."

There is no schedule for stadium enlargement to it's maximum capacity. It specifically indicates it will depend on demand!

There are support documents in the stadium consent indicating that Part-WGIS works cannot be completed before 2014 at the earliest. Specifically because of the constraints of a new road bridge over the MSC.
Retail development adjacent to the stadium is not anticipated to start before 2018.

I can see Yosarian loving it!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
10 January, 2012 09:54
Quote:
H's Dad
In one sense is it not also a case of " we don't know what we've got till it's gone"?

Only if you've not been listening. winking smiley



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
10 January, 2012 10:12
Have you seen that the original RCD 2006 planning permission for the site imposed the opening of an emergency evacuation route that would also be used by Buses, cyclists and pedestrians on matchdays using the sewage works access road off Peel Green Road, Mozzer.
I reckon that back route in, under the motorway bridge would have addressed quite a few concerns re congestion surrounding the A57 and the junction 11 roundabout. I think it would have been used by the park and ride schemes from both the Willows and the Trafford centre. The use of those schemes is still a critical feature of the consent.
Subsequently it has been removed, resulting in more reliance on the single spur road in. I doubt Park and Ride will work any more!
The current emergency evacuation route along Langland Drive and onto Peel Green Road is only to be used by emergency vehicles. BIG mistake in my opinion

I can now see how such a lax consent has come to be approved but it's taken a lot of digging.(Sm8)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
10 January, 2012 10:24
It's sounding more and more as though it's a good job job a decision hasn't yet been made by Sale (if indeed it hasn't) as there is still time to say "no" to Barton.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Toothless Shark (IP Logged)
10 January, 2012 12:29
It strikes me that the catalyst for the infrastructure improvements is going to be the need for the purposes of Port Salford. The stadium is what it is and I can't see any way it will be expanded in the next decade.

It seems unlikely that Salford Reds will be able to fill the stadium in the near future. In the event that we could fill it I would expect the rent to go up and consequently the price of our tickets.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
10 January, 2012 18:03
H's Dad, I'm interested to see your comment about the RCD 2006 planning consent which included a route along the canal track off Langland Drive.

I walked down part of this track last Friday. At the moment it has a sign saying "Private. MSCC", and has big gates (open at the moment); In an earlier post I suggested it as a pedestrian/cycle route to the Stadium from Barton Swing Bridge.Supporters can park somewhere (to be determined) near B&Q! This could still happen and I would think MSCC/Peel would cooperate.

This is the sort of issue which could be discussed with SS and the Stadium Owners if they cared to engage with their supporters.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
10 January, 2012 19:06
Not quite Rugbydon.
The 2003-6 RCD consent involved using an access road via the sewage works, the junction being directly onto Peel Green Road where it bends.
The recent 2011 consent uses Langland drive adjacent to the canal as the emergency vehicle access route. There is a public footpath along much of that that route so pedestrian access ought to be possible, but it is not proposed to be an offical access route for the public.

Page 6 of this document has a clearish map showing the original route's course. That was going to be used by buses.
The road indicated will however not be built as it would be too costly and would interfere with proposed embankment changes under the WGis -i.e. the emergency access could not be maintained during WGis construction works.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
iBozz (IP Logged)
11 January, 2012 09:36
Quote:
This is the sort of issue which could be discussed with SS ... if they cared to engage with their supporters.

Are we not nowback in the Pig Flying territory, here, Rugbydon?

The now defunct dodo-like (and oft promised yet ever failing to be reborn Supporters'/SS discussion group) Focus Group would have been ideal place to start such a dialogue (long ago) before discussions with the wider supporter base.

But it is now far far too late if a decision is to be made within a few weeks.



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

http://smileygenerator.us/smileytags/links/smiley_tag.0103287001410624489.gif

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
11 January, 2012 13:32
iBozz, well, we all know what was said. The decision may or not be made in (what is now) the next two to four weeks and it may or may not be announced on the same time scale. I suspect that we shall hear the full saga on BBC NW shortly, once those chickens cease to have a leg to stand on.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Million Monkeys (IP Logged)
24 January, 2012 20:56
For those interested in such things, I just passed the stadium on the way home (where it would appear Salford are playing a friendly tonight). Unsurprisingly, all the side streets between the stadium and the motorway were coned off with “residents parking only” signs. However there was a sign opposite the road to the Aerodrome offering match day parking, it was dark but I think it said £5.Not sure how much they'd want to use for parking but a large space in theory at least.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Thinking Donkey (IP Logged)
24 January, 2012 21:17
A mate of mine went to a Salford friendly - said it was carnage with a gate of about 3,000 - he couldn't imaging what it would be like with 12,000

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
24 January, 2012 23:19
I looked at the below website giving a motorway camera views around 7.00pm tonight;
J11 on the M60 looked bad.

Well it's hardly a surprise 'Thinking Donkey':
1 There's no public transport,
2 Not enough parking &
3 Congested Access!

It's all been said before ad naseum; I hope to God SS are listening!

www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/manchester/trafficcameras/

(Sm19)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
MikeGC (IP Logged)
24 January, 2012 23:20
IIRC Salford played a friendly v Wigan this evening

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Olyy (IP Logged)
24 January, 2012 23:52
Apparently attendance was 8k+, so will be interesting to hear what the transport/traffic etc. was like

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
24 January, 2012 23:52
Mike - short term memory problems? (Sm6)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
J Moon (IP Logged)
25 January, 2012 02:40
Heard very negative reviews from Wigan fans from last nights game. Most described it as a shed apart from the main stand. Apparently the car park is just a load of mud and not done properly. No atmosphere and in the middle of nowhere were also mentioned. The more I read about this ground, the more I think it would be a massive disaster. If this is the future for the club then it won't be a very good one. Let's not jump at the first new ground that comes our way if it means a soulless pit with lots of errors. By the sounds of it, The Willows would have been better. Is it still there? Even if it's half demolished it sounds better than what they have now.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Olyy (IP Logged)
25 January, 2012 10:27
I've heard the exact opposite - most really likely it, and some part-time-salford fans who had vowed not to go to the new stadium have been won over by it.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Printerland Annie (IP Logged)
25 January, 2012 11:12
You pays your money and you takes your choice.

(Sm125)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
25 January, 2012 14:35
Alternatively, you takes your choice and don't pay your money.

In other news, we've just handed any negotiating initiative we might have had to your owners

As if being slightly pleased last night at hauling ourselves back to draw from two goals down for the second game running only to end up even more precariously positioned in the league than we started the day wasn't enough.



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
25 January, 2012 20:49
The main stand is considered to be be very good, the others, pretty basic with obvious design flaws. Car parks not finished, traffic poorly stewarded.

Reports on the reds forum tend to confirm the access to and from the stadium leaves a lot to be desired even spreading onto the official Salford stadium facebook page.
Quote:
It was a great experience, hope you get the traffic issues sorted out though, we were still there nearly an hour after the game finished!!!
Several reports of an extra 20-30 minutes queuing in and out.
Those that parked in Eccles and walked pretty happy though: it's apparently far faster to walk beyond the single access road!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
25 January, 2012 23:16
I'd be interested to learn of anyone's experience of going by public transport;
it's how I will go next season if do-able!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
26 January, 2012 15:06
Won't that entirely depend on Kick-off time and day, Rugbydon?
To central manchester, then tram to Eccles then walk seems to be the most favoured route unless you live in the locale, Rugbydon. Although you can get a bus a bit further to the Unicorn on Barton Road to save three quarters of a mile or so.
This being particularly useful in the planning of alternative options involving the 100 bus..

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Thinking Donkey (IP Logged)
26 January, 2012 16:02
..............all of which leads me to believe that this is not as straightforward as we are dreading /imagining.

In my experience, commercial property deals are comparatively straightforward thrashed out by experienced lawyers who do this day in day out.

If this is straightforward then there is no reason why it should not have been sorted months ago given how long the stadium has been planned / under construction and the limitations of EP known.

As it's taking so long, then four things spring to mind:

1 Ian Blackhurst and Brian Kenned are savvy businessmen who will realise that a stadium is no good if you can't get there. So delay is all about ensuring transport links are sorted before they commit.
2 In addition to 1 above there is seemingly little point moving to a stadium whose capacity is close to that of EP, so part of this could be about ensuring all the agreements etc for the future expansion of Barton are in place before commitment
3 This is all part of a negotiating tactic to get some action from SMBC
4 There is a further option (say Reebok or something else) which is not on the general radar yet

.....but all the above could be wrong, nothing to do with sport, and this is all about releasing the value of building land in Stockport

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
26 January, 2012 17:19
Thanks H's Dad,
I'm assuming a dark, cold, wet Friday night!
But hoping for sanity to prevail and a Saturday afternoon k/o!

I live in Altrincham.
I've looked at the Tram, Stretford Tram stop Bus to the TC, and then the 100 bus. I estimate 1hr 15mins each way including walks and waits.
The Eccles Tram stop option then walk is slightly longer.

Neither very good, and I probably won't do it. An SS dedicated direct bus from say Stretford Tram stop would be OK I think. However the bus options will inevitably suffer motorway delays on match night!

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