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Re: Blue seats At Barton
Chinook (IP Logged)
14 February, 2012 18:30
Interesting article in Daily Telegraph today


Blues Go Back To Cardiff Arms Park

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
MikeGC (IP Logged)
14 February, 2012 20:11
how odd, I'd heard they were knocking a stand down at the Arms Park to accommodate extending a stand at the Millennium Stadium.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
14 February, 2012 23:06
Fascinating!
I went to the Wales v Australia game in December.
Empty seats all round!
As a Cardiff and International supporter at UWIST in the 1960s I understand the Arms Park arguement!
Sale Sharks !!!! BARTON !!! Be warned !!! (Sm113)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 00:14
Rugbydon, I wonder if I ever met you - I was in Cardiff for the last four years of the 60s.

It was the Welsh CAT in those days, wasn't it?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
C3Q (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 00:22
Having had the good fortune to have recently been to both of Cardiff's stadia to watch rugby, I can easily understand the enthusiasm for the return to The Arms Park.

As someone who lives in Sale, but also has the good fortune to effectively be a "local" to EP (my daughter lives in Shaw Heath), and thus has no requirement for non pitch related "match day experiences" (we arrive 5 to 15 mins before KO and leave on the final whistle), the season tickets we hold in the CE, fulfill all our requirements. Barton would give us, as spectators and supporters, nothing more than we get from EP, rather less in effect - potentially longer journey times, more expensive parking, and a less elevated perspective of the game.

I understand there are a significant number of us who want, or need refreshment in, or close to the ground, but a move to a different stadium does not guarantee better availability, quality or value for money for such.

We won't find a better playing surface in the rest of the Premiership.

For the average local(ish) fan, there can't be any (many) benefits of moving away from EP (can there?).

One has to assume, that there must be significant additional revenue or reduced exposure to costs, or maybe both, in moving away from EP (regardless of where to), and that this is the driving force behind the investigations into a new home. It certainly does not appear to be based on supporter demand.

I wonder just how much, or how little impact, the home venue has on the longer term viability of a professional rugby club. Hard to judge I know, as most of the established, successful clubs (Cheeters, Saints, Glaws, Barf), remain in their spiritual homes. Exeter don't seem to be doing too bad...but I don't really understand if their ground transition was anything like ours would be if we moved to Barton or elsewhere.

I do believe that if the product is of good quality and reliable, people will buy it, and tolerate a certain amount of inconvenience (old stadium or inconvenient location) to do so.

I rather like the history and quirkiness of grounds like EP, Heywood Road, Franklin Gardens, The Wreck etc and would prefer them, warts and all, to the likes of the Mad Jetski, Reebook, Cardiff City etc.

It can't be long before the club have to give some sort of commitment to season ticket printing etc., so they need to get a lick on if we are not going to be based at EP next year.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 00:51
CQ3, excellent post.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 09:48
C3Q. I agree excellent post.

A couple of points. Reduced costs for SS may be possible. Reduced total costs for BK would appear very unlikely if he is going to retain EP and allow Stockport County to play there at current rents.

I see that Leicester already have STs available for next season.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Thinking Donkey (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 10:05
Well said C3Q

Although we hear plenty about the "price being right" the silence from the club on the impact on supporters is deafening.

Personally, I fear a move to Barton will be a disaster in terms of attendances and particularly if we don't make the H Cup - no-one I have spoken too (and which seems to be echoed by others on the message board) has said anything other than ".... I won't bother to renew my season ticket and will cherry pick games instead..."

Interesting interview with Nigel Wray before the Sarries game on ESPN at the weekend - talking about their move to their own ground - saying how essential in terms of overall development of the club it was to have their own home and not be anyone's tenant !

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 10:18
C3Q; one of the main attractions of Barton to SS is the Corporate Hospitality facilities. I've heard Paul Hogan say this. Apparently this brings significant income to SS even if they don't turn up! EP Hospitality facilities are very poor. EP is also very shabby and projects a poor image. But of course that can be largely rectified with investment, but it would be very difficult to do anything about the Hospitality.

I think SS see Barton as a new start for their huge ambitions, also as a way of BK extracating himself from EP. I know most of us share Sale Sharks aspirations but there's one rather large problem with Barton; how are supporters going to get there?, given that there is very poor public transport, insufficient carparking and poor access via a busy M60 and inadequate access road!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 11:00
I think this remains part of the way out for BK, and not just of EP. You're going to go and groundshare at a ground your owner doesn't even own. His (and your) control over that is therefore much less than it is at EP. Of course, to improve EP would require investment, but if there was a long-term goal that investment could be justified. The fact that it appears that's not happening raises some interesting questions.



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
scrum30 (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 11:30
didnt know crocodile dundee knew anything about rugby union rugbydon??[:wor kid:]

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 14:34
No he probably doesn't 'Scrum30' but I think he know's quite a lot about money. I've heard this Hospitality comment from a number of sources now; I've no idea what the figures are. Does anyone know?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 14:39
DaveAitch, I missed you; I left in 1964! Yes it was the Welsh CAT; I was at The Welsh School of Architecture in Cathay's Park.
A good period for Rugby in Wales!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 14:44
Sorry 'Scrum30', late night! It was Mick Hogan, Paul's his brother!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 14:48
Don, thanks. I was lucky enough to see the first internationals (home games at least) of Barry John, Gareth Edwards, Phil Bennett, John Taylor, and all sorts of players named Williams, Jones or Davies as well as the last caps of such as Alun Pask and Dai Watkins. A super era to play and watch rugby in the Cardiff area.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Peregrine (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 14:55
Have we run a Poll to see how many posters want to move to Barton and if so does anyone know what the result was, if not is it possible to get one set up?

I have been reading the posts on this thread and most posters don't seem to be that keen on moving to Barton or am I reading through rose tinted glasses?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
15 February, 2012 15:10
It is obvious that the business aim is to increase the gate revenue inc. hospitality and to reduce cost spending on the non-playing side.

The club can't increase the non-hospitality income with any certainty without investment in the playing staff. Almost certainly you have to win the Prem & have HEC rugby reguarly before the non-corporate crowds will grow to above 8k or 9k average.

We know from the days of NdV that the first plan on taking EP over was to provide extensive hospitality boxes on the Vernon as a double decker but the foundations proved to be extremely problematic and expensive to rectify before any expansion could be accomplished. Imho the only chance to have recouped any of the huge spend would have been during the 2006 season. Note that there wasn't enough spend on the playing side to carry on with PSA and the winning side.

If the club can attract roughly the same numbers of non-hospitality "bums on seats" at Barton then they will almost certainly gain total match-day revenue as the corporate clients which imho will be the easiest to attract to Barton.

The problem at EP in attracting the corporates is not so much the state of the stadium in general but the hassle of going to one place to wine & dine, trooping out into what is mostly a cold seat in the main stan, and then trooping back again to meet the players. It's nothing like as slick as having a/c boxes with top av devices, silver service, etc.

Fwiw the winding up order by David Farms putting SCFC into administration not onlt put paid to County but to BK's desire to throw any more money away on the non-playing side.

To cut a long post short CS/SS may prefer to lose a thousand ordinary fans but gain a thousand corporate clients in the medium term in order to buy success on the pitch.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Thinking Donkey (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 15:28
I really cannot get my head round the economics of the move but this is where I got to.

Barton apparently cost £16m so the investors will be looking for at least 10% per annum return i.e. £1.6m

Split between two clubs, the annual bill will be about £800,000 each. This is expenditure not currently being incurred. If there is a commitment to Stockport County and EP then this will increase as two grounds will then need maintaining so say this rises to over £1m each season.

If EP is sold, presumably for development then the fallout will be huge, it would take an age to get through planning and then appeal etc etc and what's its £££ development value, any way ? - not a fortune I suspect.

Either way its's a huge amount of profit on additional corporate activity that is needed to fund the increased costs. Say you make 50% gross profit on corporate you would need £2 million or thereabouts additional corporate activity each season just to cover additional costs before you take a step forward.

Over about 16 guaranteed home matches, in the current economic climate, in a ground which is not substantially bigger than EP that needs several £million further investment in the future to get to 20,000 spectators, who can't get there anyway.......wow.........Not a business plan my bank manager would buy into !

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
15 February, 2012 15:47
Essentially that's the difference between being an owner/occupier - albeit on a mortgage - and a tenant of a landlord.

CS don't have to worry about how Peel profit on their investment. All they need do is negotiate a rental contract which is financially suitable for the facilities provided. If the landlord improves the facilities then he may wish to re-negotiate going forward.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
snaderson (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 16:19
Quote:
Peregrine
Have we run a Poll to see how many posters want to move to Barton and if so does anyone know what the result was, if not is it possible to get one set up?

Anyone can set up a poll. There's a "new poll" link next to the "new topic" one in the message board main page.

The club ran a survey about when we'd like to play but not, I don't believe, about where. I don't recall seeing the results of the survey either.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
15 February, 2012 16:36
As a NW based business I imagine CS have a good idea of the corporate deals sellable in the catchment area.

The problem for CS is Barton's facilities should be at EP with its excellent transport links.

With the Pendolino offering a 2 hr service to Stockport you could even market corporate deals to City clients!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 16:37
Yes I suppose anyone can set up a Poll. A Poll in these columns would be interesting but couldn't be said to be representative! Much better for SS to set one up! Failing that maybe we should do a Poll on this site anyway. If, as I suspect, it raised significant concerns about 'getting to Barton' maybe SS would be obliged to take note and explain their strange silence. (Sm163)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
scb (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 17:13
Give over EP is a dump, you can't stand up, the view is restricted with all those pillars, the catering is poor, the toilet facilities are less than average, there are no family or children facilities, never mind the vehicles that run the risk of vandalism. Then consider the locals???, very unfriendly bunch they tell me!!!

Barton makes eminent good sense, a modern, chic stadium, straddled by a couple of sewage works and a motorway, no problems from the locals at Barton, and the parking? the parking, in the words of the late great Peter Cook, the parking is magnificent!!

The majority have wanted out of EP for years now, the moment is imminent and you start complaining!!

We couldn't have done more to assist you in relocating and you're having 2nd thoughts, their gratitudesad smiley - hold fast and stay firm good people - you're going to love it

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Gordon1974 (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 17:32
gonna miss places like the olde vic if we do go

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 17:50
I know this has been investigated before but I looked briefly at a hypothetical possibility of physically replacing the Shortel Stand with a new larger stand containing modern Hospitality Facilities. It would also increase the quantity of seating (Assuming the land behind would be available, costs would be affordable and SMBC would cooperate).

Surprise surprise, it won't fit, but it almost does. It might be possible to provide a slightly modified stand which would do the job. Look at how the Millenium Stadium has been shoehorned into it's tight site at Cardiff.

Masses of caveats of course; these include:
Money,
Availability of the land,
Planning consent,
Reorganising the Printerland and MBNA stands to get the Stadium to work,
Upgrading the rest of the Stadium to justify the investment.

It could be done in the Summer (not this one). There is of course the Politics, BK & SS's aspirations, SMBC's views and SCFC to consider.

Looking at the problems at Barton and lack of other opportunities on the horizon, it might still be the best option.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
15 February, 2012 18:10
If by the Shoretel you mean the south stand then CS/BK owns the land behind. The problem is the foundations. There's no way even , with unlimited funds, you could demolish the Shoretel, sort the foundations, and construct a new double decker with hospitality boxes within one season let alone a summer break.

There are 2 probs with the Railway End , or whatever it's called, the foundations are even worse with more railway clinker and ash and various land holdings or ransom strips behind.

My dad always said the sleepers he stood on forming the Railway End's terracing were the same ones the Rocket ran on at Rainhill.

However the hint has been dropped so many times that the financial aspect of staying at EP precludes buying the players required to gain top 4 Prem and HEC games with a whiff of success - which we don't have now. We'd struggle against anyone bar the English & Italians. So it's attractive to neither walk-ups nor corporates.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/02/2012 18:12 by Mrs Trellis of North Wales.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
MikeGC (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 18:19
Rugbydon, IIRC the land behind the Shortel Stand would be unavailable to Cheshire Sports.
Can't recall the details but the owners of the bowling green, etc. behind the stand seem to have said (to paraphrase) "over my dead body" when approached.
Of course if we were "in" this theoretical deal with the Council then compulsory purchase would be available.

whoops, sorry, I meant the Railway End / BMI Stand



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/02/2012 18:21 by MikeGC.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Whaley Shark (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 18:35
Quote:
Peregrine
Have we run a Poll to see how many posters want to move to Barton and if so does anyone know what the result was, if not is it possible to get one set up?

It ain't scientific, but your wish is my command

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
15 February, 2012 20:26
You can only build Hospitality Stands successfully on the 'touch / long side'. It does look (I confess at a cursory view), as if there may be enough room on the Shortel Stand area for such a facility. Cost and phasing are certainly issues (and could well kill it) but are there other less quantifiable, more important factors which mean it's 'dead in the water'?
Renting Barton will be expensive; you could borrow a lot of money with that rent!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
leeds_shark (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 08:18
Interesting comment on the Yellowboard from a fans forum last night...

Link to Yellow Board

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Whaley Shark (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 08:49
Quote:
Thinking Donkey
I really cannot get my head round the economics of the move but this is where I got to.
Barton apparently cost £16m so the investors will be looking for at least 10% per annum return i.e. £1.6m

Split between two clubs, the annual bill will be about £800,000 each.

The number I have heard for us to use Barton is very much higher than £ 800000 per year, high enough that I just can't see how the economics would work.

There may be more than one poker game going on- with Barton to reduce the cost substantially, and with SMBC to try and get the chance to improve EP?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 09:17
Of course whilst you technically don't own anything anyway, you are linked to EP by your owner. EP, whether you think so or not, is an asset which is useful to have. Owners, as we have discussed endlessly on here, are transient.

Let us assume that all remains fine whilst BK is here (which may be a rash assumption, but that's not relevant here). When BK goes, as he will, whether that is in the next 12 months or 12 years, you will be left as tenants in a ground and have no assets to speak of. You are then reliant on the munificence of whoever comes in and you have no fall-back position. As I have said before, you do not have to look very far to see where that can leave you.



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
16 February, 2012 09:47
I understood the cost of Barton to be around £26m! paid for by Salford Council. Peel Holdings put in the land. Salford have called it a 'Community Stadium' and hope to acquire income from Concerts as well as Rugby. (I'll be interested to see how 12,000 punters get there). The cost of the WGIs will add an significant extra; presumably Stadium tenants will pay some of that if/when it's in place.

There's an Article about the North West in the Times today. There is mention of 'Salford Gateway' (which of course is where the Stadium is) and Peel's aspirations to increase use of the Canal again!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Printerland Annie (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 10:01
A friend of mine was entertained in hospitality at EP last night. Apparently Dimes spoke to the assembled throng and informed them that an announcement about Barton will be made in the next two weeks after 'one or two loose ends have been ironed out'.

He also said that the signing of Cipriani is a done deal and a formal announcment will be made on Tuesday.

Might have been nice to tell the fans this before the corporates but hey.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 10:22
Well Annie, why am I beginning to think that the 'Corporates' are more important than us mere supporters?

(Sm110)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 10:32
The announcement regarding Barton simply means that 'Sale will go to Barton', otherwise why announce anything?

In view of the mass of posts regarding concerns over access it's time for Sale Sharks to come clean as to whether they are interested in supporters attending their games at Barton or whether it's simply for the bloody 'Corporates' and their reserved parking bays!!

Sale Sharks complete indifference to their Supporters lead me to the inevitable conclusion. I do hope SS do well in the future though because then I can watch them on the telebox!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
woodley shark (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 11:16
Spoke to a colleague at work who happens to be a Salford Reds fan and he told me that the new stadium is a "nightmare" with regards to parking. 40 minutes to get out and the car park is a BOG.
To fuel Rugbydons theory, they stop the ordinary fans and let the VIPs out first !
He has been a season ticket holder for many years and now will just cherrypick games, as the experience has put him off attending every home game.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 12:19
How does making it virtually impossible for children to get there tie in with improving rugby in the north?

I am less concerned about the "Cipriani" announcement.

From my experience of being an occasional cricket and rugby corporate and my dads as a very regular cricket corporate,half of those who were listening will have forgotten by the end of the game, and another quarter by the time they get home.

Most of the rest will forget soon afterwards and very few will care. Tell supporters and if something does go wrong, as we have seen before there will be "uproar".

Did I say the corporates don't care? Make it difficult for them to get there and they will soon stop coming. Unless of course the games are played during the working day, then they can get some time off work.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
MikeGC (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 12:27
Quote:
scb
there are no family or children facilities

IMHuO this is only an issue in soccer grounds where families and children are segregated for safety reasons. There is no special requirement for family / children facilities at RU or RL stadia

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
the snapper (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 12:45
Woodley,

I also spoke to a friend who went to the first Salford home game, the parking was fine getting in but it took forever to get out. The reason being that you can only turn left out of the gound onto a dual carriageway towards Irlam and then do a u-turn or go into Makro and come straight out again.
So it seems that the Salford supporters are not too keen on their new ground.
I suppose we could "try" it for a year while redeveloping the facilities at EP.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 18:33
Actually Woodley, I'm not primarily concerned about carparking because I will (and can only) come by Public Transport! Problem is: .... there is no Public Transport!

I've bored everybody to death many times on this site but in a nutshell:

Say 8000 supporters attend, (well below the 10k BK wants).
The 600 space carpark will reserve say 300 bays for supporters; thats 1000 suporters (average 3 per car)
Say a further 2000 manage to park nearby (there are restrictions)
That leaves 5000 to come by Public Transport or other means; that's 140 'full' Coaches/Buses ....... 'right' (Sm105)

Certain amount of supposition but it illustrates the point. Please feel free to challenge these figures, (particularly if you are employed by Sale Sharks) and convince me I'm way out; I hope I am.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 19:11
Interestingly Salford Red fans indicate the safety certificate is currently only for 9000.
IF we moved, we would actually be going to a smaller capacity stadium!
They appear to currently close the East stand to make crowd management easier and reduce staffing levels, reduce costs etc.

Presumably the lower capacity is because of perceived access concerns in the event of an emergency.

I suggest more supporters keep an eye on the scarlet turkey board. Lots of useful info on similar concerns to ours.

Apparently they usually get poorer attendances on Friday evenings at Reds.

Please note
40 minutes is an underestimate of the average time to get out after the whistle. Their crowds are smaller than our current ones (5,185 v. Hull on Friday night, compared to our 7,829 vs Wasps)
Many of their supporters report it takes an hour to get back on the motorway: those extra 2,500 will surely make a further slight difference.
VIP's are allowed out first apparently! Everyone has to turn left and then do a U turn!

Better Corporate facilities need to be booked and paid for before they make any difference. Not easy in a recession. One must also remember that the stadium owners will take a (?large) cut of any profit from corporate guests. The profit margin is imho, bound to be considerably lower at Barton.
Presumably those currently employed in Hospitality at EP will still be required for SC and other events?
How does that make economic sense?

I remain confused.(Sm100)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
25 February, 2012 19:21
I can only see it makes sense if BK intends to dispose of both EP and the team.

He may believe (or know) that it can only be done separately.


Alternatively, even the most successful businessmen make mistakes sometimes, regardless of how much time they spend making them.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 10:29
Can't find the link but there's an interesting piece in today's MEN by Neil Barker on Salford Reds at Barton. I'll quote:

"Salford Reds dramatic win over Hull FC was clouded by a disappointing attendance of 4,629 that will be a further concern for club bosses.
"Despite marketing Incentives, promotional schemes and even transport provisions, Reds are still struggling to bolster their fan base following their move to the new stadium at Barton.............
"The most concerning thing for Salford-who had been hoping for crowds close to 8,000 at Barton-is that around 1,000 of the fans on Friday were from Hull FC."


I can't believe Salford Reds have suddenly lost a big chunk of their fan base. Stating the obvious, clearly something is wrong with move. It all sounds depressingly predictable. Anybody guess the reason? Answers on a postcard to Swanny! (Sm122)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 12:30
Here is the article.

Interestingly Salford Reds offical attendence was as I indicated 5,186.
Presumably this was tickets sold.
Unless some error has been made this would tend to indicate that 557 people had tickets but didn't attend.
Is 10% a bit high or is it what we tend to get?
Quote:
Neil Barker
And with match day stewarding at the new stadium often in excess of £16,000 per game,Salford know they need to attract more fans.
- and that with the East stand closed!
Anyone know what stewarding costs at EP are?

Read more at: [menmedia.co.uk]

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
scrum30 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 12:41
cant see it being anywhere near £16000!! no idea how salford could be charged that?? I worked a few salford games a couple of seasons ago and knowing the wages i was getting and a rough memory of the number of staff that figure just doesnt add up????

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Olyy (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 13:23
Could that be match day cost, rather than stewarding alone?
So all food and drink, electricity, water, etc.etc.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 13:33
New venue: more stewarding required?

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 21:14
It's been pointed out that the average attendance for the Reds last season was around 5k. I've just counted them and the average is 4,426. I excluded one very high (29k) and one very low(896) since they were not typical.

The article in today's MEN by Neil Barker was therefore misleading! The Red's 'disappointment' was presumably in relation to their expected numbers of £8k rather than previous figures.

Yesterday's attendance of around 4,629 was on a par with last seasons' average of 4,426. (Sm132)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 22:10
As pointed out above, number of tickets sold is often 5-10% less than the actual attendance figure.
Both figures are important for different reasons.

I think the article was perfectly clear Rugbydon.
Why did you think it misleading?
Bolstering usually means "adding to " or " supporting" in my book.
They moved with the intention of increasing supporter numbers. So far moving hasn't helped significantly, which is disappointing/worrying. However it's worth pointing out that both the Castleford and Hull games enjoyed slightly larger attendances than the Willows achieved last year: mostly down to larger away support (having a look at the new Stadium?).

I am interested that their seems to be an unvoiced but subtle suggestion that the cost base of staging a game is higher than at the HawthornsWillows.
I fear the same may be true of comparisons with E.P.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 28/02/2012 18:02 by H's D.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
27 February, 2012 22:27
Ok H'sD, I won't argue the point. To be honest I'm not overly bothered about the Reds attendance statistics.

Neither am I exercised about the costs. It's bound to cost more to go to Barton than to stay at EP in it's present decrepit state. The crucial point is the 'Value'! To stay at Barton will require a large investment to raise the stadium to Barton standards. I wouldn't have a clue how to calculate the value of Barton or the costs of EP; I'm sure SS are working hard on the figures.

What I am extremely concerned about; ..... yes, you've guessed is access! There I do have a clue;... it doesn't work. SS need to address it and frankly, I don't see how it can be made to work! We may all be sleepwalking into a Disaster!!

We're now close to the 'rubber stamp'; let's see what transpires!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
J Moon (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 02:46
I haven't read a positive thing about this stadium. Somebody said it right up there - the club only care about the corporate hospitality.

I'm getting tired of logging into my computer every day, going on my clubs official website and reading "only 20 spaces left in hospitality" for whatever game it is this week. I realise they make money this way and clubs couldn't function without these things. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, most people who go on our website will not be looking for that. If you want to entertain a client at Sale then chances are you'd have someone to do it for you or you'd have a way of sorting it. I can't see many corporates thinking "I know, I'll log onto Sale Sharks website and have a look if they have any space for me". Maybe some do, I don't know. I just hate having to scroll over to the fourth latest segment sometimes to get news about what's happening on the pitch.

If the club really do care about our support and really do mean it when they say they like our noise at games and want more fans in, they have a funny way of showing it. Let's say we do move to Salford soon and it's all been decided behind closed doors. If they do care about the support - they would have told us. I'm not talking just about the people that already attend. But they'd have made it known to increase the fanbase, as that's what they apparently care so much about.

I have no idea how much money the club makes from that side of things. For all I know they could need only 4000 attendances, combined with the hospitality to break even. It does sound like that's all they care about, interviews have had mentions of Salford having great space for guests.

The more Super League I've watched, the more of peoples reviews and pictures I've seen, the worst that ground has got. It is a horrible little thing with no character whatsoever. It looks like a kid has put it together in 5 minutes with no thought. The terracing is apparently uneven and has some parts with difficulty to see. On a terrace? With no supporting pillars? The main stand too apparently has some obstructed views because of press boxes or something along the lines.

If any Salford fans are reading please don't take offence. I never went but The Willows looked a proper Rugby ground. I understand the times and the need to move. But they moved because they wanted a Super League license. It seems the ground has taken the 10,000 capacity or whatever the rule is and been thrown together very quickly to hold just that and lots of things have been left out.

Transport is still very much an issue, there's a safety certificate which would leave it at nearly 2,000 below Edgeley Park's capacity as has been mentioned. Gone are the days of only moving because we wanted 15,000 on a regular basis. We're either setting our sights lower or moving to suit the suits. For me it's the latter.

Not everybody cares about what a ground looks like as long as what's on the pitch is good, fair enough. But I've heard Steve Diamond saying it's a state of the art stadium. As a local lad to the area he has seen a few state of the art grounds built in his time and there are plenty in the North West. This is not one of them.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's Dad.. (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 08:36
Quite. Good post J Moon.

At least EP has character and is set in a location which begins to look ever more attractive as a Barton move looms ever closer.

The long-standing rumours that the S.S. franchise is being "packaged" as a stand-alone unencumbered simple business is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Rugbydon, personally I doubt SS are working hard on any meaningful figures....IMHO HUGE assumptions are being made, not only w.r.t. supporters but also w.r.t. corporates.
Historical farces about budgeting based on full capacities might well be back in vogue. Putin rules!

I wouldn't agree that a modern stadium necessarily costs more to run than an old decrepit one. Good design should be geared towards lowering the net cost per game played even if at half capacity. All possible revenue streams should be looked at, especially if the stadium is in a bit of a desert wrt pre and post match ordinary supporter facilities.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/02/2012 08:54 by H's Dad...

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 09:58
Yes, I'm with H's D on your post, J Moon.

In terms of attendance at last Friday's game there were just over 7,000 sold tickets about two hours before kick off. so there were about 12% of that 'attendance', it would seem, who paid at the gate. I don't know what, if any, significance that has (other than, if you go back to the 1960s football 90% would have paid at the gate).

I went to the Willows once about twenty years ago, but that was in the evening to watch a 'show'. Very good it was too.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
stevene (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 10:00
went to watch rugby many times at the willows many moons ago. even with better attendances than they got over the past few seasons the atmosphere and ground was dire IMO. One small terrace on one side of the pitch and all the away fans didn't go in there and congregated in the stand behind the posts a la football. only ground I disliked more was Wilderspool, Warringtons old ground.

As for moving there the club undoubtedly see a corporate revenue upside and they have, correctly, in my opinion put a lot more effort (some of it more targetted than others) into developing corporate links this year. It does get too much sometimes but the club has offered some great schemes (such as the newcastle game) which enabled fans to benefit as well. Football clubs have learned that its no good having 1 or 2 tiers of hopsitality just for the high rollers/ big companies. If you go in hospitality at city or united they have 4+ tiers of hospitality. The bottom end (esp at City) is very good but is affordable for the fans and the club generate more revenue than just a ticket sale whilst the fan enjoys more facilities, possibly a meal, betting facilities etc. I don't know if this is what is what the club is going to try and expand but seems sensible financially in the current climate and offers fans who baulk at high level hospitality a chance to have more than just a ticket to the game.

Biggest issue for me is transport links and when the games are going to be played. The other issues just seem minor issues, after the view and facilities at EP are not likely to be better overall are they?

The club needs to come up with some clever options (maybe discounted travel from various station or meeting points in stockport, sale, manchester etc) and reasonable overflow parking options near the stadium. when the game is played will be crucial as well.

I just think people are getting a bit too upset over minor issues. would I like us to stay at EP and play on Friday's, personally yes. However will I follow Sale if they move ground and play on a saturday or sunday, yes I probably will espicially if it makes financial sense and will enable to club to move forward.

final thought, since Dimes took over the one thing I have noted is that the interaction which Mick Hogan did (albeit to a limited degree) with the fans has all but disappeared. there has been a lot of press but not a lot of interaction, the PR/ liaison from the top has become somewhat more dictatorial in style. something for the relevant bods at the club to consider.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 12:32
Good post Stevene, couldn't disagree with any of it.

There's another report in today's MEN with concerns over empty seats at Barton. As already posted, the numbers are the same as last year. Presumably the Reds are banking on an increase in attendance to pay for the stadium costs and their new players. Like SS, they have ambitions.

This, presumably is also the position of Sale Sharks. BK wants 10k supporters and the club has stated they want to build a 'Brand' in the north; that will cost them money.

They have many issues to consider in the move, I hope transport and access is one of them.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
stevene (IP Logged)
28 February, 2012 17:18
yes problem is Salford have been the perrenial basement dwellers/ yo-yo club pre no relegation in rugby league since the 1970's. john wilkinson has been ambitious (or so he says) since he took over the club in the 80's and has failed to deliver. Part of the problem (if you believe those with a bit of knowledge) seems to reside with the person himself and those he surrounds himself with. My understanding is that Wilkinson and BK aren't exactly bosom buddies and my belief is that the only reason why we are likely to get the deal done is that Salford reds have little or no say in the matter (Wilkinson has said as much in the press not so long ago).

whilst we have had a couple of bad seasons we also have a better overall fan base to access as demonstrated in av attendances at the willows/ EP. Its also worth noting the despite the average attendances the significant difference in ticket prices between the two clubs. The most expensive ticket for a salford game is £22 which is cheaper than a bronze/ printerland ticket at EP (our most expensive being £37).

if I was reading the two respective business cases for expanding their supporter and revenue base I know which one I would favour tbh. thats not with sale tinted glasses on either.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 10:52
Quote:
MikeGC
IMHuO this is only an issue in soccer grounds where families and children are segregated for safety reasons. There is no special requirement for family / children facilities at RU or RL stadia

They're not segregated for safety reasons, Mike. Where they are designated (and they're not in every ground) they are basically designated as an area where those who wish to take children and make sure they with with other children. And at County it's not even that, really.

Children/families sit in all parts of EP with no bother whatsoever. I sit in my own seat for every game and on the two occasions I've taken my daughter (then 4) she sat with me in amongst everyone else. The same is and has been true of all my friends who bring/have brought their children along. I sit in the Pop Side, but you'll probably find that the Cheadle End has hundreds of children in it on a County matchday.

What County do have is a block or two in the Pop Side (Brown and/or Red) where they put those coming on free/discounted tickets from the schools, football courses, etc. This serves several purposes in terms of the ground (filling an otherwise empty area, making sure groups can sit together, making it easier for 'newbies' to get in and find their way around, etc.) but it is not for safety reasons.



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 14:55
Quote:
Mozzer
I sit in the Pop Side...

Well I'm quite happy to use the name Pop Side, but I think some on here know it here as the Shoretel.

My understanding, as well as the above, for family enclosure was to help keep children away from some of the more choice language of the main areas and to give them a better chance of a decent view of the game than they might get elsewhere.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 14:58
An article in today's MEN (by Luke Patten) argues the case for Sunday afternoon rugby, rather than Friday night, to increase attendance at the Red's games at Barton.

Poor article with no factual information. It contained a mildly interesting comment however, quote:

'International Rugby Union matches were played last weekend. Don't ask me to draw comparisons with Rugby League-there aren't any. Rugby League is vastly superior'

That's the sort of stupid comment that's promotes animosity between codes and between clubs sharing grounds. I would hope that Sale Shark's relationship with Salford Reds at Barton can be amicable and fruitful.

(Sm108)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 15:05
Have you ever sat in a Family Stand, Dave? I learnt a few words last time I sat near one winking smiley

And our 'kids' are still referred to reverentially for the grief they gave a particular Burnley player on their first return to EP after they cheated us at Wembley, which caused him to have such a poor game that he was subbed at half-time. Not sure if the 'Family Stand' is allowed to be called the '12th Man', but they did their job that day. smiling smiley

(Thank you for directing people to the right place, BTW. I've never got any idea what the transient, cash-induced names are at any given time and I've no intention of learning them.)



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 15:56
Mozzer, sorry, just to correct an earlier statement: another reason why family stands came about was so children could learn new swear words - and so they could also teach adults a few. (Sm1)

I can understand why,if a company is sponsoring a stand, it should want its name on that stand. I have never understood why the new name, in this case, could not have been "Shoretel Pop Side", using the same logic as early Christianity used when it latched onto existing Pagan dates for Christmas and Easter.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
iBozz (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 18:46
Quote:
DaveAitch
Well I'm quite happy to use the name Pop Side, but I think some on here know it here as the Shoretel.

Don't you mean The Vernon stand? eye rolling smiley

Quote:
Mozzer
I've never got any idea what the transient, cash-induced names are at any given time and I've no intention of learning them.

Me neither, Mozzer. i find it all rather sad - stands should be named after their location (as the Cheadle End, Railway End, or whatever) or notable former club grandees (as The Birtles at Heywood Road, for example).

Time for a Leonard Curtis stand at EP? grinning smiley



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

http://smileygenerator.us/smileytags/links/smiley_tag.0103287001410624489.gif

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
maccshark (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 22:17
Not sure if it has been mentioned already but heard at work that Peel Group, owners of Barton, are to close one of the runways and use for car parking. A footbridge to be built across A57 to stadium. long awaited tarmac runway to be created to appease flyers.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
29 February, 2012 23:21
Is this a 'wind-up' maccshark?

I once took off on the bumpy grass runway at Barton (as a passenger) to fly to Leicester; it was terrifying! but a new carpark and a footbridge sounds wonderful!!!!

Masses of questions:

Where did you hear this?
Where will the footbridge go from (and to)?
When will it be installed?
Will there be a bus to the footbridge and where from?

I'll shut up now. I've just checked; it's the 1st of March tomorrow not the 1st April! I live in hope.

(Sm126)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
J Moon (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 02:15
I've got a free ticket to go on Friday night against London Broncos. Thinking about going if I can find a way of getting there. That last sentence shouldn't really have to be said about a modern stadium. I'm hoping my friend has got the same e-mail and my bribe of some food at The Trafford Centre will make him drive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2012 02:19 by J Moon.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Gordon1974 (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 08:05
more concerning for me though is that in an article last week in the MEN it mention that the stadium were negiotating with MUFC for their reserves to play at Barton as well.

It true thats going to mean 3 teams using a the pitch. Furthermore what is to stop the owners subletting it to almost any activity to get their money back, the effects on the pitch won't be pretty.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
sharkboard sa (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 08:53
The longer this drags on beyond the six week prediction for a decision then the more the rumour mill turns. Two things strike me about this we are now in March and at some point quite quickly someone needs to start talking around season tickets. The other matter is what day do we play l for one doubt we would like to go head to head with MUFC and given thier status with TV predictions on match days are impossible with the exception of Friday nights when l cannot remember a match being played.

What is needed is a decsion and yes l understand how important this is and the need for care to be taken with the deal but please remember the fans,leave them drifting and some may just float away.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
H's D (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 09:49
We could have another four weeks to wait;
The published Premiership entry criteria for this season would tend to indicate that they need to have signed an agreement by the edn of this month.

Quote:
Premiership Entry Criteria 2011-12 -ground moves.
Each Club must have signed, by no later than 31 March 2011, a
legally binding agreement to occupy the Principal Home Ground
(and if applicable the Standby Ground) for the season


I've heard it's still all just about the money, so i can imagine it will come down to the wire....(Sm100)

Incidentally the safety certificate for the ground is set at a max capacity of 12,062 but initially it is normal procedure in the case of any new stadium for it to be lowered to 75% of this figure whilst the management get used to running the stadium for a couple of months.
Hence the rumours circulating of a 9,000 limit.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
SandDancerShark (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 11:25
Is it to summarise this monumental thread that we all would love the idea of a new stadium, and the improvement in the facilities that it would bring but. Is Barton the right place for that Stadia? We the Joe and Joanna supporter are not in the formula that decides Barton or EP, it is a decision built on the figures being black and not red over the auditors signature!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 13:54
SDS. Decent summary. However, some see the likelihood of a black (accounting) figure being short lived, once the initial excitement has gone and the M60 exit roads get clogged.

Rather than the auditors signature, it could be the signature of a purchaser that is being sought.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
MikeGC (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 17:54
it can't be long before season ticket renewal letters start fluttering onto hall carpets - surely the club can't wait much longer before starting to accrue some of that important dosh.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
P A B (IP Logged)
01 March, 2012 21:28
If we wind the clock back 9 yrs, we didnt find out we were moving to EP until quite late in the previous season. There had been much speculation about Maine Rd, but EP somehow was under the radar & came as a bit of a pleasant surprise as the feelings about Maine Rd were pretty similar to how we feel about Barton - albeit for a lot of different reasons. The difference in 2003 was that we had to move from HR as it was just way to small. Wheras now most supporters cant see a compelling reason as to why we have to go.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
03 March, 2012 18:05
Mike GC, I can't see supporters renewing their Season Tickets in the usual numbers until and if Sale Sharks can reassure supporters as to how they are going to get to Barton. (And home again)

If I'm right, it may be only then that Sale wake up and face up to with the Access issue.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
05 March, 2012 17:32
I spoke to Sale Ticket Office today to enquire when the Season Ticket renewal forms would be sent out!

The reply was: 'Not yet since they're still calculating the prices'!!!!

No prizes for guessing what that means! (Sm163)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
05 March, 2012 22:47
Forgive my paranoia but why would SS be 'calculating the prices' if we were staying at EP?

(Sm124)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Whaley Shark (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 06:27
Because all costs will change, with inflation if nothing else, and they will have to make some judgements about the likely size of the crowd next year, what the budgets will be next year, and the size of the planned financial loss.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 09:10
The main things that determine the likely size of the crowd are 1) the quality of the rugby on show 2) whether Sale look likely to win anything 3) the cost. People will pay more, and will inconvenience themselves more, to watch good winning rugby. However, the rugby has to come first.

Increases for inflation are inevitable but should only be set at a level that is reasonable. Too big an increase will result in less people renewing, especially if there is a move to Barton. I fear that those in the BMI Healthcare, Railway End or whatever it is will be big losers whatever is done.

Anything but a reasonable increase in ticket prices, particularly if there is a move to Barton and if Barton is as bad as is being said, will result in attendance dropping considerably....unless the rugby is outstanding. Perhaps this, Barton, is the sticking point.

I did think there might have been a bit more information forthcoming on the "move". If the move is announced along with an increase in ticket price it will be a PR disaster of the top order.

Whaley, I do think there is more to it than just mundane economics. If it were just that then prices should already have been announced.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Thinking Donkey (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 09:31
I find myself returning to the same point over and over again, namely, that an established organisation (SS) agreeing a lease with the owner for an existing stadium facility should not take anything like the time it is taking.

Therefore conspiracy theory dictates there is something more to this:

1 Negotiations around additional facilities - bigger ground, or under soil heating for eg. which may include the local authority re planning etc and hence be complicated / time consuming.

2 Something around access / parking which again may involve the local authority, Dept of Transport and again be taking an age.

3 Something else entirely, eg trying to strike a deal with SMBC to develop EP and being quite happy to have Barton as a side show whilst this is going on.

BK & Co are heavy weight businessmen and it will not have escaped them that Barton is currently not big enough for the "Northern Revolution", when even a modest HC game would probably need to be played elsewhere and which no-one can get to anyway.

It cannot be in their interests to unsettle their hard-core support in the way they are doing so either the PR machine is utterly incompetent or they can afford to wait knowing that the announcement when it comes will please most and it will be love and kisses and everything forgiven.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
scb (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 11:43
County fans think you are staying at EP, which is a bummer for me, and no offence to yourselves intended btw

If you do stay then ask your executive to make a 'real' go of it this time, we have all seen how both clubs can share the pitch which has held up really well for the past couple of seasons, lets hope they redress the sense of imbalance most of us have long felt exists between the clubs

Oh and staying at EP doesn't mean you can start slagging the ground off again!
Although I have not yet given up a long held belief that you will go

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
SB14 (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 11:49
I have hoped, and said, all along that Barton was maybe a red herring so that when they announce we are staying at EP we will all be soooo grateful and think we have got a good deal.

I hope we stay then even when I move to the East coast in a few months I will commute and watch the games. My son (who is returning to Manchester after a four year absence), and eight of his friends, are all intending to buy season tickets for next season - cheap ones in the whatever-it-is-called-uncovered stand. Move to Barton and none of us will be able/willing to go.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
iBozz (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 12:49
Thinking Donkey: 3a/4 - the matter of rent, cost sharing or whatever, might be a point at which negotiations have stopped, slowed down, been abandoned is also another possibility.

scb: I have heard/read/dreamed/imagined/made up/Mozzered somewhere that SMBC want to centralise "sporty" type things, such as swimming baths, on one central point within the Borough and thus close down all similar smaller facilities on one central site and that EP and the surrounding area could be the favoured location.

If that's the case, then maybe another factor contributing to the seeming delay over where we play next term could be negotiations with SMBC, SCFC and others about redeveloping the whole area.

Such a scheme would, I guess, require both SCFC and SS to relocate for a season whilst such a major build were carried out, but it would make sense all round in my view. Less costs for SMBC, new facilities for SCFC and SS, a central location easily reached by road, rail and bus - and by air with direct buses from Ringway to The Royal Oak, etc. etc.

There is plenty of land round there (not of prime building quality, I admit, but not beyond the wit of man to resolve) and the perennial matter of the sitting blockages (The Maternity Ward, etc) could if absolutely necessary be overcome by compulsory purchase.

I have noticed that Dimes' views on Barton appear to have cooled a tad recently, based on the few scraps I have read or heard, so that makes an imminent move less likely. if I'm wrong and have misinterpreted things then I apologise in advance and am happy to be corrected.

I can see why no price announcement has yet been made, and it isn't anything to do with Barton (although that would affect the fixed and variable cost base). WE aren't sure whether there will be a resurgence over the next few games, resulting in Honours and HC fixtures next term, or whether we shall continue to badly misfire for the rest of this term and plummet like a stone down the table. WE also have a new finance man and, if I were him, I'd be looking at zero based budgeting this time round and that takes time.

The lack of any PR, even if only to say something along the lines of "we never comment on rumour or contract negotiations) would be better then the seeming information desert we are in right now.

Swanny's continuing absence from this board (apart from the odd response) seems to me to be backfiring. I can understand why he got hacked off with the personal attacks and they were wholly unacceptable, but the ones who should have left (by force if necessary) should have been them and not Swanny.

Disagreements with each other are one thing, and make up the fun of any discussion, but descent into personalities is quite another.



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

http://smileygenerator.us/smileytags/links/smiley_tag.0103287001410624489.gif

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 16:37
iBozz, an interesting post. I wish/hope it's true. I would have no problem with a temporary move to Barton, provided it's only one season if a new facility is built at EP!
(However I still think the right place for Sale Sharks is 'Sports City').

If you are right then we would remain at EP for next season since a lot of work things need to happen before any construction work can begin at EP. Also Stockport County will need to find a temporary base too!

I still have my sinking feeling that we'll be at Barton next season.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 16:59
You could develop EP without closing it down. The Cheadle End was built and we carried on playing there. The Pop Side was seated and we carried on playing there. You just do it a side at a time. Which given that neither club has much/any money seems to me to be only sensible (and why it will probably never happen).

iBozz - are far as centralising things is concerned, that's news to me, although that in itself doesn't mean it's not true! However, the pool at Grand Central is supposed to be staying where it is (which is public knowledge) but the surrounding area is due for re-development - and not as a sports ground (ditto). So make of that what you will. Also 'centralising' suggests something central. Which none of the other locations often talked about in relation to a new ground actually are. Somthing inter alia repeatedly pointed out by those annoying County fans who insist that it is a fool's errand to accept the word of people who have a vested interest in us moving and no interest in us as club yet who insist "new ground = bright future".



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
J Moon (IP Logged)
06 March, 2012 17:56
I don't really agree with the ticket prices having to rise. The first 2 clubs I've seen announce season ticket details are Exeter Chiefs and Bury FC, both have price freezes. We did freeze last year didn't we? Perhaps some will go up but there will be a new deal in The Popular Side where match tickets went down to £18 at the sides during the season.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Peregrine (IP Logged)
10 March, 2012 22:04
I feel that as there has been no word from anyone regards we stay or if we go I can only assume that negotiations have hit a brick wall and the chances of Sale playing at Barton next season are getting smaller and smaller,

I for one are happy with that.(Sm128)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
SB14 (IP Logged)
10 March, 2012 22:15
I jolly well hope so.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
10 March, 2012 22:29
It would be nice to think so Peregrine, but I've seen nothing to suggest that's the case!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
11 March, 2012 01:39
Perhaps no news is bad news.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
scrum30 (IP Logged)
11 March, 2012 01:45
got a sinking feeling that sale will still be going to barton,friday nights are going to be boring next season!!(Sm40)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
11 March, 2012 12:39
Sale Sharks are always way too optimistic on timing of announcements, however the Barton announcement seems unduely protracted!

We were led to believe it was solely about money! Now I'm pretty sure that Salford are desperate to sign up Sale Sharks, so I can't believe they wouldn't reach an accommodation by now. Can it be that something else is exercising the Sharks' Board?

As others have speculated, it could be a re-visit to the viability of an EP refurb/new Stadium! My bet/'hope' is that it's a serious look as to whether Barton will work for the Sharks given it's appalling access! The subject has been done to death in these columns but I still can't believe it's not being looked at by SS! If so, there can only be one conclusion.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Frodo Shark (IP Logged)
11 March, 2012 13:21
I've already decided what to spend the money on I will save by not buying a Season Ticket, the travel costs, match programme, food etc.

If we stay at EP now I will have to "unspend" it pretty quick

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Thinking Donkey (IP Logged)
12 March, 2012 20:09
I've posted a number of times (most recently about a week ago) my thoughts that if its just about money then it would have been sorted weeks ago. The fact that we are being told its about money makes me suspect that its a red herring its about something else; EP, capacity access etc.

The longer this goes on, the more convinced I am that we will be at EP next season.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
SB14 (IP Logged)
12 March, 2012 20:15
Well I, for one, hope we are at EP next season and if I win the lottery I'll pay for the improvements!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
scrum30 (IP Logged)
12 March, 2012 20:56
frodo, i think you can spend your money without worrying!!! you will not be the only one!!!!(Sm145)

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
12 March, 2012 20:57
I don't think that Man Utd would ever agree to a 3 way share of Barton so I can only think that the more we hear of the Utd reserves moving to Barton the less we are likely to see Sale move there (in the short term)... unless the Utd reserves interest is a red herring to force Kennedy's hand.

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Mozzer (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 08:56
Utd's reserves played at Bury in a 3 way share, with Bury and Swinton RLFC.

I suspect Peel are much more involved than anyone is crediting here. And they are no push-overs. Both sides may want it, but then both sides may be prepared to play hard right up the final whistle. The result could go either way.



A rush and a push and the land that we stand on is ours
It has been before
So it shall be again
And people who are uglier than you and I
They take what they need, and just leave

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
Rugbydon (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 09:09
[/i]
Quote:
Sold over 70,000 tickets for the Wembley game with Quins. Pretty good going and could see a record crowd for a club game if they can shift a few more in the next few weeks.
It must be so frustrating being a Sarries hardcore fan or somebody who works for the club. Their home attendances are shocking, a few over 6k against Northampton the other week for the champions of England. Their away crowds are probably the smallest I've ever seen at Edgeley Park, one year I didn't see a single fan. Yet they can get over 10x their usual gate by moving a game to a posh stadium.

Fair play to the marketing team.

This puzzles me; OK they are two top teams by why so much difference between their own Stadium and a top Venue! I suppose the Reebok experiment last season demonstrated it to a degree. Also I suppose supporters like going to top venues; but I'd watch the All Blacks play in a Carpark! We know that Barton won't have this effect if Salford Reds experience is a guide.

How can this phenomenon assist Sharks? Perhaps Sale should stay at a revamped EP and play a selection of games at top Football Venues, eg: Reebok, Etihad, OT, etc! That would enhance profile and income!

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
13 March, 2012 09:34
As mentioned earlier in the thread it would have been very wise to have arranged a game at Barton this season and analysed the resulting attendance .

 
Re: Blue seats At Barton
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
13 March, 2012 10:53
Quote:
Mozzer
Both sides may want it, but then both sides may be prepared to play hard right up the final whistle. The result could go either way.

AH, but will the ref call it even if the ball does cross the line?

(O/T, I had better put O/T here, Clint Hill has forged a decent career for himself since his early days at Tranmere fifteen years ago.)

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