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Wayne Barnes
GOS (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:14
Appallingly inconsistent as usual but what a finish....

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:21
Interesting I thought him very fair and balanced.
I thought he handled an almost impossible situation at the end impeccably.
Although that french doctor may have trouble with his conscience....

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:23
Quote:
H's Dad...
Interesting I thought him very fair and balanced.
I thought he handled an almost impossible situation at the end impeccably.
Although that french doctor may have trouble with his conscience....

He won't be able to look his mum and Dad in the eye....

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Barend (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:25
I don't think the ending was his fault necessarily, and the Welsh faffed around more than the French did too.

However, his binning of the French winger for the knock on in the tackle whilst refusing to even look at at least two occasions of Welsh players in the same scenario, was a major example of iffiness on his part.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:25
The technical support staff on the touchline weren't very much help either...but if Barnes saw the other two incidents clearly he had no need to review them. The first one was drawn to his attention by his assistant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/03/2017 19:28 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
jamestaylorreturns (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:38
bizarre
surprised no pen try in that final part

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 19:42
Quote:
H's Dad...
The technical support staff on the touchline weren't very much help either...but if Barnes saw the other two incidents clearly he had no need to review them. The first one was drawn to his attention by his assistant.
They returned to being "touch judges" again, any of them aren't doing their job as "assistant referees"

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
emerging shark (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 21:13
Several things for me came out of today's matches: (1)When the clock is in the red at half time or at the end of a match all a defending team has to do is throw the ball in quint and it ends... Rory Best did just that at the end of the first half, does not seem right...
(2) When the clock is in the red again, the sin bin clock keeps running, again does not seem right.
(3) Straight put in to the scrums have gone forever....

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
18 March, 2017 21:18
Quote:
jamestaylorreturns
bizarre
surprised no pen try in that final part

I had the distinct impression that he gave that final try as much out of exasperation at the Welsh as because he clearly saw it grounded. So a penalty try by another means.



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Somewhere in the South Stand

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
18 March, 2017 21:25
Quote:
emerging shark
(2) When the clock is in the red again, the sin bin clock keeps running, again does not seem right.

That's because he didn't stop the match clock, which would be reasonable if no-one was in the bin. After all, it's in the red so going or stopped makes no difference. But when there's a bin in place, not stopping the clock means that a team can minimise its effect by wasting time.



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Somewhere in the South Stand

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
18 March, 2017 22:07
Quote:
Cap'n Major Bloodnok
Quote:
emerging shark
(2) When the clock is in the red again, the sin bin clock keeps running, again does not seem right.

That's because he didn't stop the match clock, which would be reasonable if no-one was in the bin. After all, it's in the red so going or stopped makes no difference. But when there's a bin in place, not stopping the clock means that a team can minimise its effect by wasting time.

Barnes made sure the clock was stopped before the full time elapsed but after that he failed to do so despite it being very relevant with a man in the bin

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
MikeGC (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 12:23
I couldn't hear the commentary particularly well (blame iBozz) so this might have been dealt with.
Can't understand why there was no sanction for
Davies late/off the ball tackle
Webb shoulder charge on the French hooker
Halfpenny deliberately knocking on and into touch

'Twas the right result in the end, though

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
emerging shark (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 12:46
Barnes made sure the clock was stopped before the full time elapsed but after that he failed to do so despite it being very relevant with a man in the bin
Exactly my point Irish, clock never stops when it's in the red because it does not usually serve any purpose, except in this situation.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
ale shark (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 12:57
I dare say Barnes didn't want to get sucked into uncontested scrums but he should have just yellow carded Wales for every penalty after the 80th min. That Samson Lee got back in the pitch was a disgrace.

Wales wasted about 8 minutes with their bench confusion and the alleged bite and referral.

France still cheated with slimani though! A draw might have been justice for that.

Are Wales going to be 9th in the world tomorrow? I'm guessing Ireland will have climbed back up to 4th

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
MikeGC (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 13:01
It's only cheating if you get caught

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
19 March, 2017 13:05
Lots of welsh castigating Barnes on Twitter but Dimes (well parody Dimes) has sprung to his defence.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
the snapper (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 13:15
Barnes was totally incompetent, after 80 minutes he completely lost control of who was on and who was off the pitch. Unfortunately he was inconsistent with his current interpretation of the laws. After yesterday I don't think he is likely to get many more international games to referee!

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
ale shark (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 14:00
Also, how/why was he allowed to ref back to back Wales game? Doesn't seem right to me. Is the ref pool that shallow?

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
ashtonshark (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 14:36
Wales repeated infringements were the principle cause of the 20 mins of overtime. There should have been more sin binnings and possibly a penalty try in that period

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 14:44
He was about to bin Biggar if France hadn't scored the winning try when they did.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Tigger (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 16:12
Time out please.....another ref bashing thread.

Only caught the last 15 minutes but Wayne handled the extra time extremely well....he could have blown for full time handing the victory to Wales....but he could have awarded a penalty try handing the victory to France. Instead he let the game play to a natural conclusion....asking the right questions.....

Again refs get criticised for making bad decisions....Wayne used everything at his disposal to make sure the game played to the end without the ref deciding the outcome.



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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one pretty and preserved piece BUT to slide across the line broadside, thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting

GERONIMO!!!

RIP Marco Simoncelli 20/01/87 - 23/10/2011

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
19 March, 2017 17:08
Statement issued by SNRL:-

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7S-UYyXUAEn1Q6.jpg



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Re: Wayne Barnes
emerging shark (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 17:22
..he could have blown for full time handing the victory to Wales....
How on earth could he have done that? During overtime any penalty results in play on and any scrum has to be completed...

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 20:09
Spot on Tigger.
Barnes was between a rock and a hard place, with both sides attempting to either cheat or put the blame on him for losing. He ensured the two teams determined the result.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
jaytom (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 20:22
IMO, Barnes did a good job in a bad situation, but in the end he was too patient with Wales. Knowing that they couldn't go for the posts, they just kept defending illegally. He should have said that the next illegal defence would be a penalty try to force them to defend legally.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
19 March, 2017 20:32
I think the welsh would have then re-offended and then blamed Barnes for the loss of the match. They knew he could only award a penalty try if a try would almost certainly have been scored had the offence not been committed. i.e. the scrum going backwards over the line or a foul in the act of scoring.
IMHO it never quite got to that.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
19 March, 2017 21:28
I did hear him at one point explain to the acting French captain that the Welsh scrum wasn't going backwards enough for him to award the penalty try.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/101/101_0_1475852289.jpghttp://www.sportnetwork.net/mainadmin/img/1011155763860.jpg
Somewhere in the South Stand

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 02:36
Remember when we did it against Bath? Hit the deck as soon as the ball came in, before we started going backwards, not possible to award a penalty try. There could (should in the case of our Bath game), be many yellow cards.

I'm not a big fan of Barnes' demeanour, just a personal thing, but he is undoubtedly one of the most accurate and consistent refs around. He handled the ludicrous situation at the end of the game as well any other could have. On first viewing of the scoring of the try, I thought he had decided, "I've had enough of this I'm just giving the try, F*&k 'em". On second viewing he clearly gets input from the TJ as to the grounding, replays showed the decision to be correct anyway.

I expect serious consequences if any wrongdoing can be proven wrt the allegedly dodgy HIA.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Flumpty (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 08:43
Quote:
PoyntonShark

I expect serious consequences if any wrongdoing can be proven wrt the allegedly dodgy HIA.

If/when the powers that be can prove that the French management team colluded with Doc Feelggod to manipulate the HIA/non HIA, the fit truly will hit the shan.

But I'm wondering what sanctions the authorities could impose.

Game stops at the point when the (un)injured prop was removed against the Laws of the game ?

Which would give the game to the Sheep Chasers.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 09:33
IMHO it's far more likely that the laws/guidance regarding the reintroduction of props will be modified to make it more difficult to swap them at such critical times.i.e. the "process" will be modified. Perhaps by the appointment of truly independant doctors for the tournament matches.
It's also a bit of a farce that a yellow-carded player is permitted to come back on in order to allow contested scrums to take place (albeit that another player was obliged to take his place in the bin).
I somehow doubt the authorities will directly sanction France as it would be tantamount to questioning the motives of a doctor's clinical judgement.

I actually think Flatman/Goode got it right when they indicated Barnes got the process spot-on and it has probably enhanced, his already outstanding, reputation.

Thankfully such 4 point differentials at the end of a crucial match are rare, as that ending exposed how far sides/coaches are prepared to go to register a win. So perhaps nothing much really needs to be done....

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
emerging shark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 09:49
The other problem seemed to be the lack of communication with the 4th official (French). It seemed that his English was poor.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
MartWhit (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 10:09
I'm totally supportive of Mr Barnes handling in this game.

Like others, I noted that he was keen that the players determined the outcome and not the ref, and so was very 'patient' regarding a potential penalty try.

If the doctors says the French prop needed and HIA then he has to trust that, even though the doctors apparent ignorance of the question being posed was somewhat dubious.

The bite was handled as it needed to be.

I though the Welsh were every bit as devious as the French in the closing stages, and Barnes handled it evenly.

The situation was a farce, but brought about by the two teams and not the referee IMO.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 10:28
Quote:
H's Dad...
It's also a bit of a farce that a yellow-carded player is permitted to come back on in order to allow contested scrums to take place (albeit that another player was obliged to take his place in the bin).
That didn't happen though right? Samson Lee got carded then Tom Francis comes on and Halfpenny goes off so they remain with 14 players

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
20 March, 2017 10:29
Lee came back when the ten minutes had elapsed.



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Re: Wayne Barnes
Flumpty (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 10:44
Quote:
MartWhit
I'm totally supportive of Mr Barnes handling in this game.

If the doctors says the French prop needed and HIA then he has to trust that, even though the doctors apparent ignorance of the question being posed was somewhat dubious.
.

Absolutely spot on.

If the French management team had manipulated/collude with Doc Feelgood to "force" a change of prop, thats a seperate issue for the oragnaisers to look at.

It did seem more than a touch "off" to see the prob that was removed for a HIA to be wandering up the tunnel on his own !

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
clutch (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 12:31
I'm not sure why this has become a Wayne Barnes dig thread! Some laughable comments on here, with the snapper winning first prize. I'm pretty sure that the experts, who judge the refereeing, will continue to keep Barnes on. I don't agree with his interpretations at times, but that is more down to how they are instructed. He communicates well, and I thought he held himself together well, in ludicrous circumstances. The reality is, the French hooker deliberately popped the scrum to gain a penalty. I would have loved it if he'd pinged them, but that never really happens.

More so at international level, but the breakdown is a bit of a shambles, which most be down to the way they are instructed. Better than Garces, though who ignored anything that Ireland did (they played the ref better).

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
20 March, 2017 12:38
Why didn't Owens do the Dublin game?



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Re: Wayne Barnes
Conwy Shark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 12:48
MartWhit.....the Welsh being every bit as devious !!!...as if.

I watched in the FanZone after the RGC game at Colwyn Bay, as you can imagine Wayne Barnes took some "stick".

In my opinion Mr Barnes had a good game, he was presented with several no win situations at the end of the game and did all that he could. I don't think ANY referee could have handled any better than he did.

By the way, France deserved it, any team that outscores the other in tries should be the winner.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Flumpty (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 13:09
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Why didn't Owens do the Dublin game?

Because he was at Murrayfield for the Scotland / Italy game

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
emerging shark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 13:29
There seems to be a trend for these sorts of matches to bring in/on French and s. hemisphere refs...

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
the snapper (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 13:34
I do not understand how Wayne Barnes did not once stop the clock during the added time, either it is a law that you cannot stop the clock after 80 minutes have elapsed or he lost track of what was occurring. That is why I think he lost it, in my opinion of course. He didn't seem to know who was on the field or who was being replaced.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
safc_shark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 13:44
Quote:
the snapper
I do not understand how Wayne Barnes did not once stop the clock during the added time, either it is a law that you cannot stop the clock after 80 minutes have elapsed or he lost track of what was occurring. That is why I think he lost it, in my opinion of course. He didn't seem to know who was on the field or who was being replaced.

Snapper fully agree, but that was because the guy on the touchline who deals with it all didn't have a clue and couldn't keep WB updated in any meaningful way. To have the ref stop the game and walk to the touchline to have to ask what was happening looked more like an amateur game than an International

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
ale shark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 14:07
Yeah, if the clock had been stopped it wouldn't have been such an issue. A big deal is being made of the 100 minutes but it would have been about 7-8 min had the clock stopped which would have been the same thing but less worthy of all the hoohaa.

Whatever the current rule the clock must be stopped after 80mins to ensure any consistency and fairness in the sin-bin times/length. France were cheated by the fact that Wales were only down to 14 men for about 5 minutes of actual playing time.

The right team won on the day and credit to Barnes for not denying them the right to do it, however farcical. The French doctor and coaches will be sanctioned if it is felt that they did anything wrong.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
20 March, 2017 16:54
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Why didn't Owens do the Dublin game?

Because he was at Murrayfield for the Scotland / Italy game

Surely the Ireland v England game was the "top" game?



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
emerging shark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 17:10
Wot I said higher up the thread ale shark. 'Exactly my point Irish, clock never stops when it's in the red because it does not usually serve any purpose, except in this situation.' The clock never stops during overtime in any match.....law needs to change.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
20 March, 2017 17:15
Fyi WB is doing Clermont v Toulon



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Re: Wayne Barnes
ageinghoody (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 17:16
WB was told by a doctor that a HIA was required.

Surely a referee should never be put in the position of overriding a doctor's decision. And yes, that would still apply if the ref was a doctor himself.

I'm not sure what can be done about it though; even the provision of a neutral doctor wouldn't really help. There'd still be a team doctor with a duty of care to the players, and if (s)he said an assessment was required, it would be a brave, or irresponsible, neutral who'd refuse it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/03/2017 17:17 by ageinghoody.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 17:56
It is not the referee's job to question the doctor.

We have to trust the doctor to be honest in these cases. They risk a lot if they are going to making incorrect assessments to favour their team, and we have to be able to trust their integrity.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 18:15
Quote:
Amazingly, a teacher.
The other problem seemed to be the lack of communication with the 4th official (French). It seemed that his English was poor.

Commenting on a French home game, held in Paris! No wonder they call us arrogant....and we have such poor uptake of foreign languages.
Clearly if Mr Barnes has difficulty with understanding the language in France he should improve his french comprehension and vocabulary!(Sm6)

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
Flumpty (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 18:17
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Why didn't Owens do the Dublin game?

Because he was at Murrayfield for the Scotland / Italy game

Surely the Ireland v England game was the "top" game?

He'll go where he's sent !

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
20 March, 2017 18:51
Barnes did ask the fourth official in French whether the player was injured.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 22:49
I agree Barnes has a reasonable degree of french: I've stood in a centre circle with him on Barn Elms Field whilst he expressed sympathy with London French after the Parc des Princes bombings. He spoke in both languages saying the same thing quite well, immediately prior to a minute's silence.
Perhaps he should have employed it when initially making enquiries of the fourth officials and those recording the nature of each substitution during the game.
That's perhaps my point: it's not only ES who is Anglo-centric!

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
hilly07 (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 22:58
English is the international language of rugby on the field. They deal in English first and if required switch if possible.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
MikeGC (IP Logged)
20 March, 2017 23:16
Wales on-line game referee supports Wayne (broadly)

[www.walesonline.co.uk]

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
emerging shark (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 07:35
HsD , I simply pointed out a fact that may or may not have had an impact... I did not make a judgement on it! read it again and don't try to read between the lines....(Sm100)

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
MikeGC (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 08:47
Another balanced view of his performance

[rugbyballs.org]

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
clutch (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 13:02
Did Sonya really ask Wynn Jones if France cheated!!

That was a funny article. The only thing I disagree with on the walesonline article is that Barnes got all the scrum pens wrong. In my opinion France popped up a la Bruno, and Moore called it that way as well, so it must be right.

The biggest farce was the lack of English skills of the 4th official, who looked bemused, when asked a few simple questions. All a bit of a shambles, and didn't show the game up in a great light, but none of it was Barnes' fault.

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 14:53
ES Je ne comprends pas! Repete-toi, en francais, s'il tu plait!

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
emerging shark (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 19:23
C'est merde..so you know me well enough to use s'il tu plait...

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
21 March, 2017 22:09
Biensur! Nous tous habitons dans la famille de Club Rugby Sale! (Sm85)

 
Re: Wayne Barnes
22 March, 2017 07:50
Quote:
emerging shark
C'est merde..so you know me well enough to use s'il tu plait...

Only in the biblical sense ............



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