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England tour squad announced
20 April, 2017 09:31
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Re: England tour squad announced
20 April, 2017 09:32
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Re: England tour squad announced
20 April, 2017 09:33
Both Curries, Sam James & Denny Solomona - no Beaumont



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2017 09:33 by Mrs Trellis of North Wales.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
ChesterShark (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 09:34
Fantastic news for those 4. Surprised no Haley??

 
Re: England tour squad announced
20 April, 2017 09:39
Not really. It's not as surprising as the omission of Launchbury from the Lions. Given M. Cul-de-sac is going to Argentina. Mallinder more useful as utility back who kicks goals.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/04/2017 09:40 by Mrs Trellis of North Wales.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
jaytom (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 09:43
Bit of a surprise from a Sale POV. Good news for those going, but I thought Haley and Beaumont would have been included ahead of them.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
20 April, 2017 09:44
Wade, Robson, Armand, Roko, Wilson also missing.



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Re: England tour squad announced
20 April, 2017 09:54
No TT?



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Re: England tour squad announced
ale shark (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 09:55
Quote:
jaytom
Bit of a surprise from a Sale POV. Good news for those going, but I thought Haley and Beaumont would have been included ahead of them.

Yeah, they're obviously a long way down the pecking order now. Cant believe Mike Brown is touring but there's a lot of uncapped players in there.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
yukon (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 10:00
Excellent news and well deserved.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Bradwall Boy (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 10:06
Looks like the Curry boys have skipped the U20's. Clearly they are well thought off in higher circles.

Well done to the lads.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 10:22
Highly delighted the Curry twins have been fast tracked. I am in awe of their performance considering their age.

Damn shame for Haley - I do wonder if his number of unforced errors for the middle part of the season has counted against him though I thought his very recent form has improved.

Beaumont - that's a blow for him - involved in the 6N squad, again I thought his very recent form has been good.

Perhaps for both of them it will be a positive that they need to concentrate on the basics again and aren't the finished article.

I don't recognize some of the names so struggling for the scrum half backup and full-back backups?

Real shame TT isn't involved - he performs week in week out and has been ultra consistent for multiple seasons.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Olyy (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 10:33
Delighted for the lads, especially the Curry boys - what a season they've had!
Am I right in thinking Brown is the only fullback? There's plenty there who've had experience (Loz and Mallinder etc.) but Haley can feel really hard done by.
Not too surprised at Josh's omission with EJ saying he views him as a lock.
Tommy Taylor and Dan Robson not going is pretty crazy.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
jaytom (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 10:34
Quote:
ale shark
Quote:
jaytom
Bit of a surprise from a Sale POV. Good news for those going, but I thought Haley and Beaumont would have been included ahead of them.

Yeah, they're obviously a long way down the pecking order now. Cant believe Mike Brown is touring but there's a lot of uncapped players in there.

Haley I can understand, to some degree, as Brown is still with England and I guess with 16 players going to the Lions EJ wants some experienced leaders still in the squad - an injury in the back 3 could well see him called up still. With the Curry's getting in in the back row (with only Billy V missing) ahead of Beaumont, I can only assume that this is because EJ sees him as a second row and wants to see him make that transition here first.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
20 April, 2017 10:47
Maybe it's a cunning plan , as cunning as a fox what used to be Professor of Cunning at Oxford University but has moved on and is now working for the U.N. at the High Commission of International Cunning Planning, to frustrate the Argies' man-marking system.

Escucha muchachos:- Miguél - you take Beniamíno - or is it Tomáso? Manuél you take Tomáso - or is it Beniamíno ? ¡ O mierda!



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Re: England tour squad announced
james46 (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 10:56
It's blooding the youngesters who will get battered by the Argies.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
MartWhit (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 11:06
I guess englands streak is broken and they no longer need to hold ranking points for WC seeding, so Eddie can afford to gamble. But my, he's rolled a whole handful of dice with this squad.

I'm disappointed for Haley & Josh, as I am for TT and Robson. Its difficult to see inconsistency in selection where you were next in line 2 months ago but now several notches further away. For our 2 their form hasnt been otherworldly, but not so bad either.

You'd really think selection had been earned by those wasps boys, including Wade. RObson, along with Wiggy, are the 2 most complete scrum halves in the country at present.

The potential in the youngsters selected is evident, but again, this isnt saxons rugby, its test caps, which I still feel should be earned. It seems early for a few of them when the likes of Wade, Wray, Harrison (teimana), Waller, Catt, Armand, Roko, Burrell, arent going.

There'll be a few brickbats thrown if England dont win, since few will consider it our 'best' avaialble side.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
stevene (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 11:19
I am guessing a off season without being injured and then a full pre season will do Haley and Josh better than going on a summer tour. Haley has struggled for form for most of the season and Josh, if he is moving to second row full time, will need to have an off season programme geared to achieving that.


I think a number of those selections (including the Curry twins) is about getting them into squad and seeing them in training rather than them actually playing. I can see Sam getting game time off the bench in one of the tests. Looks like Solomona will get his first cap for sure looking at the squad.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
BasilBullneck (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 11:23
I am surprised Harry Williams has been preferred over Ross Harrison - Ross has performed consistently and admirably this season, a huge step up from last season, where frankly at times he was a liability in the tight. Williams is not a regular starter, and Exeter are not known for having a dominant front row. Shame for Ross, but a blessing for us because he can have a good rest over the off season.

It is also a shame for Addison, but whether his current injury has taken him out of the reckoning, I don't know.

While the squad is clearly experimental, it would seem to indicate that Cipriani's and Wade's time has come and gone. I am disappointed because they are both real entertainers, although the reports of Cipriani's performance against Leinster (I missed the game) indicated that he choked, and that can't have helped his cause.

It should be a stiff challenge against the Argies. However, it will be interesting to see what the Sale boys learn from Jones. Congratulations to those selected.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Bradwall Boy (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 11:51
Delighted for Sam. Bet Dad's over the moon.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Olyy (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 12:09
Quote:
BasilBullneck
I am surprised Harry Williams has been preferred over Ross Harrison
Williams plays tighthead

 
Re: England tour squad announced
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 12:25
Surprised at Beaumont's exclusion, less so Hayley, don't think he has recaptured his best form yet other than in rare glimpses. I like Stevene's theory on Josh using the off season to bulk up, rather than touring. Don't get TT's exclusion at all, particularly at the expense of Cowan Dickie, who was excellent against us recently, but I have never seen international quality about him.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016

 
Re: England tour squad announced
clutch (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 13:00
Maybe he think Taylor will always be too small for international rugby.

Not sure Cipriani bottled it. I hate that phrase. He just had a bad game, it happens.

If I was Wade I would go to France!

Jones is a big believer in finding potentially world class players (that sounds really obvious) so I think he's used this as a chance to find them, rather than picking more experienced people (at prem level) who he believes aren't capable to getting to that level (Taylor/Wade perhaps)

As far as I'm concerned Ben Curry is there on merit. Jones was there at Gloucester, and frankly he had to take him after that. I realise that it was a slightly meaningless end of season game, but that was one of the most complete performances by a 7. It was too good to ignore.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
NorthernShark (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 13:14
Wouldn't be surprised if Taylor's exclusion is down to Warren and co. asking for him to be placed on standby in case the Lions have to draft in another hooker.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
clutch (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 13:20
I doubt that. Cowan Dickie has always been ahead of him to be fair. IF that was the case, why are Launchbury, Haskell etc in the squad.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
MikeGC (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 17:22
Quote:
NorthernShark
Wouldn't be surprised if Taylor's exclusion is down to Warren and co. asking for him to be placed on standby in case the Lions have to draft in another hooker.

I'm sure that they would prefer him to be "in camp" with England than trying to stay fit at home

 
Re: England tour squad announced
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 17:38
Quote:
MikeGC
Quote:
NorthernShark
Wouldn't be surprised if Taylor's exclusion is down to Warren and co. asking for him to be placed on standby in case the Lions have to draft in another hooker.

I'm sure that they would prefer him to be "in camp" with England than trying to stay fit at home
My thought too. Not only would he be fit but match hardened as well. I find his exclusion more surprising than that of Haley or Beaumont. Might there be some other reason, for e.g. needing close season surgery, for Taylor missing out?

Solomona's selection was not a great surprise: James likewise. The Currys deserve their run in the sun but I wonder if either expected to be selected. It's wonderful for all four of them.

Looking at the list it's either around 50 caps or 5 or less (with a significant number with none).

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 17:56
Dimes will look on it as vindication that TT really should have stayed at Sale.
Since he moved to Wasps his England aspirations have become far more tenuous...

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 21:59
Quote:
H's Dad...
Dimes will look on it as vindication that TT really should have stayed at Sale.
Since he moved to Wasps his England aspirations have become far more tenuous...

Really? In that he was given a 6N winners medal which he has no interest in because he doesn't feel he deserved it? And that he has had regular contact with EJ? His omission will sting.

I'm agreeing with clutch here. With the likes of Isikewe included, plus the Curry twins and others, EJ is looking at potential young bucks who could force their way into the reckoning for the 2019 World Cup. So why not get them in the setup now? If he hasn't picked Wade or Cipriani before, he was never going to take them this summer. Much better to test out the likes of Denny.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 22:00
Quote:
H's Dad...
Dimes will look on it as vindication that TT really should have stayed at Sale.
Since he moved to Wasps his England aspirations have become far more tenuous...
Perhaps he will, but he would be wrong.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 07:43
I have just been looking at the updated page of the RFU England squad and I see Tommy Taylor is included.England squad

 
Re: England tour squad announced
thekeg (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 11:08
Although it also has a few lads who are on the lions tour

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 14:24
TT has always been in the England squad since he attained the honour when he was at Sale. He obtained his first and only cap late last season.
Since then there has been no tangible sign of progression.
No further caps and he has not been selected to go to Argentina, whereas he did go to South Africa with the Saxons a couple of summers ago - apparently he is not injured, nor is he scheduled for surgery AFAIK.
I would say Dimes will feel vindicated, without any doubt at all.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 15:29
Quote:
H's Dad...
TT has always been in the England squad since he attained the honour when he was at Sale. He obtained his first and only cap late last season.
Since then there has been no tangible sign of progression.
No further caps and he has not been selected to go to Argentina, whereas he did go to South Africa with the Saxons a couple of summers ago - apparently he is not injured, nor is he scheduled for surgery AFAIK.
I would say Dimes will feel vindicated, without any doubt at all.

Not sure how Dimes can feel vindicated tbh

If, as you seem to be suggesting, TT hasn't furthered his England prospects at Wasps, given that he has been first choice hooker there all season, how might he have furthered them had he stayed with us? I was as gutted as anyone when he went but I don't see how he would be further up the England pecking order had he stayed, given the opportunity he has had at Wasps his season.

Had he stayed with us and not been selected, he would now be wondering 'what if'. The fact that he has chosen to leave, had every opportunity this season at Club level and in the national squad, and still not been selected must make him question his own ability and application rather than his decision to leave, I would have thought. Having said that, I think he is extremely unfortunate to miss selection but we don't know what, if any, other factors may be at play and what EJ's reasons are.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 17:49
progress, not prospects.
TT lost his way for a while at Wasps and is only know standing out consistently. Look at the number of tries and MOMs at Sale in his last season with us and compare with his first at Wasps.

Had he not had to do all that adjusting to a new club and had continued to perform he would almost certainly be joining the Curry brothers in Argentina.

His prospects however are certainly arguably far better as he will have had 2 seasons playing in the European Cup by the end of next season. If Wasps overcome Munster and he plays a large part he will once again perhaps start to progress, but so far he's stood still.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
thekeg (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 17:57
I wasn't aware he had lost his way at all, there's been positive talk all year about his performances at wasps and has played well every time I've seen him

 
Re: England tour squad announced
21 April, 2017 17:57
?

Sorries are playing munster. Fwiw Wasps should have had a home qf and were denied this by ref. error.



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Re: England tour squad announced
Bradwall Boy (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 18:00
Quote:
H's Dad...
progress, not prospects.
TT lost his way for a while at Wasps and is only know standing out consistently. Look at the number of tries and MOMs at Sale in his last season with us and compare with his first at Wasps.

Had he not had to do all that adjusting to a new club and had continued to perform he would almost certainly be joining the Curry brothers in Argentina.

His prospects however are certainly arguably far better as he will have had 2 seasons playing in the European Cup by the end of next season. If Wasps overcome Munster and he plays a large part he will once again perhaps start to progress, but so far he's stood still.

Not hard to stand out in a poor side. As it is he is first choice at the team sitting comfortably at the top of the Premiership. His international time will come.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Halanisupporter (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 18:28
Really pleased with the chosen England squad. Glad that josh Beaumont hasn't been chosen. Just isn't consistent enough in my opinion. So pleased for the ones that have been. They thoroughly deserve it

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 18:30
Quote:
Not hard to stand out in a poor side
Perhaps. but not if you're constantly having to cover for other's errors.
It's also harder to score tries in a poor side i.e. it's easier to score in a side that is playing well and winning more frequently. He was also first choice at Sale.
I actually think it's easier to be a good competent player if everyone around you is doing their job well. You can then just concentrate on your own.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 21/04/2017 18:37 by H's Dad....

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 19:43
Quote:
H's Dad...
Quote:
Not hard to stand out in a poor side
Perhaps. but not if you're constantly having to cover for other's errors.
It's also harder to score tries in a poor side i.e. it's easier to score in a side that is playing well and winning more frequently. He was also first choice at Sale.
I actually think it's easier to be a good competent player if everyone around you is doing their job well. You can then just concentrate on your own.

TT has been first choice at Wasps all season just as he was at Sale. As Keg said, I don't think there is any evidence that he lost his way at Wasps. You only have to read their forum to see how highly he is rated by their fans. He also invariably plays 80 mins for them.

Can't be bothered to look at the stats but he has certainly scored a few tries for Wasps this season. Whether or not he has scored more or less than he did for Sale is largely irrelevant as I suspect that most of the tries he has scored throughout his career has been as the ball carrier in a maul. Hardly a reflection on his overall ability.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
21 April, 2017 21:43
TT wasn't standing out in a poor side because weren't poor! We finished top 6 and only went out of Europe once Montpellier brought their big guns to the knock out stages.

I'm sure EJ has his reasons but I don't believe that TT, Josh and Mike have suddenly disappeared out of the reckoning. We'll see what next season brings.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Buzzboy (IP Logged)
22 April, 2017 15:07
Thank goodness for all the balanced views about TT. ....he has been absolutely dynamic since we snuffled him from you. Very good shout for player of the season H's Dad what have you been watching?!
Well done on your selections for England. Yes we are at wasps are gutted fog Launchbury, and staggered that Eddie is not taking more of our players to Argentina.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
thekeg (IP Logged)
22 April, 2017 16:21
Quote:
Buzzboy
Thank goodness for all the balanced views about TT. ....he has been absolutely dynamic since we snuffled him from you. Very good shout for player of the season H's Dad what have you been watching?!
Well done on your selections for England. Yes we are at wasps are gutted fog Launchbury, and staggered that Eddie is not taking more of our players to Argentina.

Glad it's not just me....

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 12:16
That's my point wrt TT, Buzzboy, he was also absolutely dynamic playing for Sale, and got into the England squad and gained his first cap as a result.
Yet there's scant evidence of any further progress towards another England Cap even after the year he's had. I personally thought he took a while to adjust at Wasps, not showing his very best form initially, but granted he always plays well. He won the same supporter/club accolades here at Sale! So it's plus ca change!

So why isn't he going to Argentina? He will no doubt be grossly disappointed and will consider it a setback, unless of course there is some other factor that we don't know about.
Anyone know of any? Size perhaps, but for whatever reason Eddie doesn't seem to rate him as highly as other contenders!
His prospects are indeed fantastic, playing at his best against the best players in Europe (as well as starting regularly in the Prem.), but where is there any evidence of actual progress towards (further) England caps (which was his stated rationale for leaving)?
I sincerely hope Eddie has explained it all to him, but as with many players his age he is no doubt impatient for more international experience.

Sam James, who I saw yesterday is absolutely delighted to be going to Argentina and will no doubt get more international gametime (albeit not hopefully at fullback for virtually a whole match)! The Curries will no doubt also feel honoured..
I expected TT to be on the plane: the fact that he isn't may well make Dimes feel vindicated in his comments when TT left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/04/2017 12:20 by H's Dad....

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 12:41
So are you maintaining that TTs England ambitions would have been better served by staying with us?

 
Re: England tour squad announced
23 April, 2017 13:10
No - merely that just moving to Wasps hasn't necessarily improved his prospects. I too am surprised he's not going to Argentina and he himself is reported to be totally confused.

I think we'll see TT, Beaumont & Haley, v the Baabaas. Possibly Addison, Jennings, Cam, Ross perhaps even Paolo also in the frame.



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Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 13:10
No, but Dimes certainly did! That was the comment I made that attracted your derision.
He indicated at the time that a change in clubs could be disruptive in that respect.
That TT's interests would be best served by staying. He even raised the bidding above Wasps financial offer.

I would however always avoid publishing comments that might be interpreted by our young stars as encouraging them to desert ship. As you might put it: that would seem a bit crass and stupid.
Such decisions by players are always a balance between disruption, leaving teamamtes etc and greater european rugby exposure.

If memory serves TT had verbally committed to moving to Wasps before his England Squad call-up in January (but he hadn't yet signed on the dotted line) . We discussed on here whether he would have still have wanted to move if the England squad had been announced in say, late November, rather than January.
I tend to think he would have stayed. Particularly if he had a crystal ball wrt Argentina and no further caps this season.
Do you think the opposite?
He is, after all the main reason we now try and get 5 year contracts signed by rising stars, even down to 18 year olds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/04/2017 13:25 by H's Dad....

 
Re: England tour squad announced
thekeg (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 14:25
It's a pretty confusing squad, not simply because of the number of young relatively unproven players but because jones is suggesting it's the strongest squad he could take when in reality it clearly isnt. Must be trying to provide a bit of motivation to those fringe players who have been excluded and at the same time get a good look at the youngsters

Doubt TT regrets the move, whether his England chances have improved is open to debate but he's playing in a table topping team and has been in the knock out stages of the champions cup, rather than in a team struggling to get out of the bottom 3.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 14:47
Jones was only appointed England manager in November 2015. Was the selection of the England squad 2 months later including TT for the first time as much the choice of Lancaster as Jones?
It might explain a lot.

I also think TT will have had no regrets but that's a somewhat different aspect , and manifestly there is scant of evidence of progress in opportunities for him to play more internationals so far. The irony being there is for several Sale players, bottom 3 or not..

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 15:51
What you fail to explain though is how his international career might have progressed further had he stayed with us? He has started virtually every game at Wasps, arguably plays every week with many 'better' players and has played in a team that has been more competitive at the top level in Europe.

If EJ hasnt been sufficiently impressed by his performances given the above, what makes you think he would have fared better playing for us?

The only argument really is if he hadn't had the opportunities at Wasps to play week in week out. Then he would undoubtedly have been better off staying with us. Better to be a regular starter with us than a bit part player with Wasps.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 19:12
He might have been on the plane to Argentina and might have had a couple more caps.
Moving clubs is undeniably a big disruption. How well would he have played for Sale that Autumn? Perhaps better than at Wasps, who knows? It often takes longer to find your very best form in a new team.
It's also perfectly feasible Eddie Jones thought he had quite enough on his plate with the move to Wasps and didn't really seriously consider him for the bench in the Autumn internationals for England.
Had he benched in one of those who knows what would have subsequently happened.

No evidence either way of course, but there's no evidence his England career has progressed any further at all at Wasps..... yet!
All he can perhaps cling-to is the baa-baas match and the fact that he hasn't been dropped from the England squad.


However there is clear evidence that despite playing for Sale he made the England squad, all based on his Sale form. In the press TT has indicated that he made a mental decision to leave before his England call-up came as he hoped moving to Wasps would facilitate that.

Ironically 4 more young new players have made the England touring squad from Sale than from Wasps.
Eddie Jones has stated that he has taken the strongest possible touring squad he could with a view to the future....or as the Telegraph put it....

Quote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/04/20/denny-solomona-sam-underhill-named-england-squad-june-tour-argentina/
Where opportunity has opened for some, it has closed for others and players previously on the fringes of England selection, such as Dan Robson, Tommy Taylor, Josh Beaumont, Teimana Harrison, Semesa Rokoduguni and Christian Wade, have been left behind.

or the Guardian
Quote:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2017/apr/20/eddie-jones-england-tour-argentina-tom-curry
That will be scant consolation for, among others, Christian Wade, Tommy Taylor, Dan Robson, Mike Haley, Josh Beaumont, Don Armand, Marland Yarde, Semesa Rokoduguni, Teimana Harrison, Danny Cipriani and Mike Williams, all of whom would have regarded the Tests in San Juan (10 June) and Santa Fe (17 June) as a perfect opportunity to push their international credentials. Jones, though, is adamant no one should assume anything, his senior players included. “If they’re not keen to tour they won’t play for England again, it’s as simple as that,” he said.
“There is no reason why other players can’t come back into it but they’ve got to be desperate to improve.
My bold.
I think both Josh B and Mike Haley would admit that they haven't consistently quite reproduced the form this season that got them into the England squad, so their exclusion is perhaps fair enough.
We obviously disagree on how much TT's Wasps move has affected him, but it certainly has in Eddie Jones' assessment, if you believe what he says....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/04/2017 19:34 by H's Dad....

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Glossopshark (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 19:27
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
No - merely that just moving to Wasps hasn't necessarily improved his prospects. I too am surprised he's not going to Argentina and he himself is reported to be totally confused.
I think we'll see TT, Beaumont & Haley, v the Baabaas. Possibly Addison, Jennings, Cam, Ross perhaps even Paolo also in the frame.

All of those are a possibility except Paolo as I cannot see someone playing regularly at level 5 being considered

 
Re: England tour squad announced
ale shark (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 19:40
I've never seen enough from LCD to suggest he's international class or better than TT. Eddie Jones has seen more of TT in his squads to date, perhaps he just wants to give LCD a shot before deciding who his second 2 is once Hartley is phased out. TT will be back in the training squad in the autumn, I'm sure of that.

Having said that, is there a 3rd hooker in the squad? I can’t believe there isn’t, what if one goes down in the warm up or wakes up ill? We wouldn’t be able to field a 23

If Josh is being given 3 months off to bulk up and cement his long-term position in the 2nd row then that’s fair enough. At the moment, sadly for Josh, there’s better options in both rows.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 19:43
Or will Eddie avoid possible criticism of his touring selection by ignoring most of the above? He could just use it as a pre-tour test for starting in Argentina.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 20:31
Quote:
thekeg
Although it also has a few lads who are on the lions tour
The RFU page 'England senior squad' includes all those on the Lions tour. Teimana Harrison is also included, as is Taylor. I'm not sure that there are any others (not on Lions or England tour) though I haven't fully checked.

What is clear is that neither Haley nor Beaumont are on that squad page. Perhaps if they have moved to another club they still would be. Who knows? It's a pretty daft argument in all honesty.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 21:07
Perhaps EJ has wielded a big stick against Wasps players after they underperformed against Leinster? Some of the pundits have referenced that match as having harmed chances.

I know that TT has had regular input from EJ, so confusion might be understandable if he thought he was going to Argentina. Knowing how TT performed for us, he'll be fired up next season to win his place back - or perhaps even sooner, maybe we'll see the spurned Wasps contingent firing on all cylinders in the playoffs to prove a point.

 
Re: England tour squad announced
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
23 April, 2017 22:56
It's incredible if that's the standard expected. One poor game by your club team and you lose your place on tour. A dip in form following injury and you lose your England squad place. If that is indeed correct wrt TT (tour) and Haley & Beaumont (England squad)

However I can't see any player needing more incentive than the Premiership title to play his very best in the play-offs....

 
Re: England tour squad announced
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
24 April, 2017 12:12
Interestingly Jones was complimented by Strettle (today's Telegraph) for contacting him prior to this year's Six Nations. Apparently he, Jones, said that Strettle's performances warranted a phone call but the interpretation he, Jones, put on the 'international ruling' was that a player had to be head and shoulders above the others. Strettle said that the previous regime, and the one he played under, never bothered to contact him whereas Jones had, in spite of not needing to.


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