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Pro 12/ Pro 14
franknfurter (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 01:27
So the PRO 12 is moving to PRO 14 with two conferences of seven teams. "QUOTE The new Pro14 league will kick-off in the first week of September and will comprise two conferences of seven teams. Each conference will have one Scottish side, one South African side, one Italian side and two each from Wales and Ireland.UNQUOTE"

Call me cynical but what are chances of Leinster/Munster/Ospreys and Scarlets being in the same conference?

NIL

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
MikeGC (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 05:04
and do the South African teams get into the European Cup if they win the league ?

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 07:15
Quote:
franknfurter
So the PRO 12 is moving to PRO 14 with two conferences of seven teams. "QUOTE The new Pro14 league will kick-off in the first week of September and will comprise two conferences of seven teams. Each conference will have one Scottish side, one South African side, one Italian side and two each from Wales and Ireland.UNQUOTE"
Call me cynical but what are chances of Leinster/Munster/Ospreys and Scarlets being in the same conference?

NIL

they'll still have to play each other once i imagine, when teams from opposite conferences play.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Oldham Shark II (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 10:40
And what happens to all the Scottish/Welsh/Irish derbies? I bet Edinburgh will miss the 20k + crowd they would have had over Christmas. If I was a supporter of any team in that league I would be very pi55ed off!! Why not have one league of 14? The frogs seem to manage it ok.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 10:52
Quote:
Oldham Shark II
And what happens to all the Scottish/Welsh/Irish derbies? I bet Edinburgh will miss the 20k + crowd they would have had over Christmas. If I was a supporter of any team in that league I would be very pi55ed off!! Why not have one league of 14? The frogs seem to manage it OK.
they're still going to happen, they'll end up having a 21 game season i reckon

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Yareet (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 13:30
Details all being ironed out [www.punditarena.com]

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
saleawaywithme (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 14:42
From the BBC but not finalised:
"The new Pro14 league will kick-off in the first week of September and will comprise two conferences of seven teams. Each conference will have one Scottish side, one South African side, one Italian side and two each from Wales and Ireland.

The current preference is for two conferences of seven teams playing each other home and away. Within this format, the teams would also play one game against all the sides from the other conference, which would deliver 19 fixtures.

Additionally, each club would also play home and away derby fixtures as well, providing a total of 21 league games. However, other formats are also being discussed.

The winners of each conference will qualify automatically for the semi-finals, while the teams placed in second and third in each conference will be drawn together in play-offs for the remaining two semi-final places."

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Monty9 (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 15:07
I don't think our league structure is perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I am sure I am not the only one who is relived we are not involved in this....!?

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
MartWhit (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 15:39
Mike GC point is very relevant.

Do the SA sides get the same access to the European Cup and/or Challenge cup?

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Yareet (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 16:21
Quote:
Monty9
I don't think our league structure is perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I am sure I am not the only one who is relived we are not involved in this....!?

It seems like a slightly simpler version of the NFL

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 17:17
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
Monty9
I don't think our league structure is perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I am sure I am not the only one who is relived we are not involved in this....!?

It seems like a slightly simpler version of the NFL
it's still a far less contrived schedule than super rugby was past year or 2. Golden lions have gone all season without playing a kiwi team yet.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Monty9 (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 17:20
Agreed. But over Super Rugby I would still rather have a national league such as ours. I know it's needs must in many cases but actually makes me appreciate our league structure, that was all my point was

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
MikeGC (IP Logged)
19 July, 2017 20:28
Quote:
MartWhit
Mike GC point is very relevant.
Do the SA sides get the same access to the European Cup and/or Challenge cup?

Apparently, even if they win the league title they cannot enter the European competition

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Hobb5y (IP Logged)
20 July, 2017 07:31
As the bbc article said, for the Pro 12 this is a not a case that people hope it will work, it has to work for the Pro 12/14 to be able to grow. 50% increase in TV money is a huge deal. Interesting times

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
HaleShark (IP Logged)
20 July, 2017 20:36
[/quote]Apparently, even if they win the league title they cannot enter the European competition[/quote]

IMHO this hasn't been thought through well enough and appears to be a rushed decision to get the S.A. into the Pro league format. Seems to be a bit of a mockery that if the winning side is S.A. they won't be in the European Cup competition, how odd.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
franknfurter (IP Logged)
20 July, 2017 21:18
When BREXIT is finalised, will the Welsh, Scottish & NI sides play in European cups?

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
20 July, 2017 21:24
Quote:
franknfurter
When BREXIT is finalised, will the Welsh, Scottish & NI sides play in European cups?


And will that be the end of the 6N?

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
20 July, 2017 21:40
Daft questions. 5N existed years before EU/EC/EEC. I travelled all over Europe for years before UK joined the Customs Union.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Headington Shark (IP Logged)
21 July, 2017 07:10
Quote:
franknfurter
Call me cynical but what are chances of Leinster/Munster/Ospreys and Scarlets being in the same conference?
NIL

5.5% (recurring of course) chance I think.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
iBozz (IP Logged)
21 July, 2017 07:46
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Daft questions. 5N existed years before EU/EC/EEC. I travelled all over Europe for years before UK joined the Customs Union.

I suspect that fnf and GOS had their tongues firmly in cheek, Mrs T.



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
22 July, 2017 20:25
After Brexit Mrs Trellis will need a visa, if EU citizens need a visa to visit the UK.

There is even a chance she will need a visa specific to the country she arrives in and a separate one for each country she visits.
Parochialism has downsides.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/07/2017 20:33 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
22 July, 2017 20:36
I've had at least four tourist visas this year. Each took about 5 mins to complete inflight and cost nothing. Of course the UK allows EU criminals to enter without any visa or record check.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
franknfurter (IP Logged)
24 July, 2017 01:18
(Sm100)

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
25 July, 2017 21:47
..or criminals to leave Mrs T. The same as Wales/Scotland/Ireland do with England. All parties enjoy freedom of movement. Historically enough of ours have moved to Spain to hide from the met.
Currently we are still in the EU: one shouldn't assume it will the same simple process wrt visas post-brexit. The article suggests it certainly won't be, as quid pro quo will apply. If the UK requires a fee and a palaver involving vetting of applicants to get one for the the UK then it seems likely the each individual country within the EU will reciprocate....that is what the article suggests....

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
alas (IP Logged)
26 July, 2017 20:06
Difficult to decide which is the biggest dog's dinner. The PRO 14 regular season or Brexit?

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
26 July, 2017 20:22
EU criminals commit many crimes here in the UK. UK criminals flee to Spain and commit crimes not in Spain but back here in the UK.

Visas aren't a problem and never have been. If EU countries who rely on tourism attempt to enforce visas on British tourists then they will lose out financially. That's why Turkey is desparate to remove mutually imposed visas.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
28 July, 2017 20:47
visas aren't a problem BECAUSE we are still in the EU. Time will tell if that changes: If we impose visas on europeans it is 100% certain they will impose visas on us. No visas is a product of open borders and free trade (in labour).
IN THE UK WE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE OF WORKING AGE (WHO ARE WILLING TO WORK) IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THE PENSIONS AND SERVICES FOR THE EXCESSIVELY LARGE SECTOR OF PEOPLE OF PENSIONABLE AGE.
ITS A HUGE DEMOGRAPHIC PROBLEM ONLY PREVENTED FROM WORSENING BY NET IMMIGRATION OF WORKERS AND AN EVER INCREASING RETIREMENT AGE.
Apologies for the bold but people keep forgetting.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Yareet (IP Logged)
01 August, 2017 10:03
Quote:
franknfurter
So the PRO 12 is moving to PRO 14 with two conferences of seven teams. "QUOTE The new Pro14 league will kick-off in the first week of September and will comprise two conferences of seven teams. Each conference will have one Scottish side, one South African side, one Italian side and two each from Wales and Ireland.UNQUOTE"
Call me cynical but what are chances of Leinster/Munster/Ospreys and Scarlets being in the same conference?

NIL

Well two in each

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGIbMVRXkAAgKfY.jpg

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
emerging shark (IP Logged)
01 August, 2017 17:45
'IN THE UK WE SIMPLY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE OF WORKING AGE (WHO ARE WILLING TO WORK) IN ORDER TO PAY FOR THE PENSIONS AND SERVICES FOR THE EXCESSIVELY LARGE SECTOR OF PEOPLE OF PENSIONABLE AGE.'
You may well be right but where do you get the figures from to back that up, and should you not have added 'willing to work for a low wage'?

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
01 August, 2017 19:33
I suggest you look up 'post war Baby Boomers' and use the stats from the office of national statistics on demographics, ES.
From the highs of the fifties and sixties the birth has fallen markedly in most western societies. This has resulted in an an aging population: the average age of people in the UK exceeded 41 for the first time a couple of years ago: this despite immigration tending to lower it. (with immigrants averaging 26 years of age), and despite emigrants averaging 42 years of age.
What do you call a low wage ES?
Interestingly EU migrants are more highly educated than the average for the UK population.
Although those from Eastern European countries tend to have a similar percentage of graduates on average. Many of those workers don't consider wages low in the UK comparatively. They tend to fill those jobs which are less popular, even though far fewer are of low educational attainment.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2017 19:45 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
franknfurter (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 04:08
The new conferences are based on last season's championship (table?) standings, which were, I think, Munster, Leinster, Scarlets, Ospreys, Ulster, Glasgow, Blues, Connacht, Edinburgh, Benetton Treviso, Dragons, Zebre.

So, I thought that maybe they went 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12. But that doesn't compute.

So why are Munster, Leinster, Scarlets and Ospreys not in same conference? Or Treviso and Zebre? And why are the two saffa clubs kept apart?

They also say conferences will change based on standings? So potentially we should end up with a conference of 'good teams' and a conference of 'not so good teams'.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Tribesman (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 07:10
They've divided each conference geographically so each gets 2 Irish, 2 Welsh and 1 each from Scotland, Italy and South Africa.

Teams were then ranked according to their standings against the other teams from their Union and placed accordingly. So Conference A got Ireland 1 and Ireland 4, whilst Conference B got Ireland 2 and Ireland 3. This was balanced against Wales 1 and Wales 4 going into Conference B and Wales 2 and Wales 3 into Conference A.

Conference A then took Scotland 1, Italy 2 and South Africa 1.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
ale shark (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 07:34
It's about striking a balance, if it gets lopsided then it loses all integrity. It looks about right to me.

The Super 15/18/??? is an unfathomable mess, other than watching individual matches in a standalone context it's hard to be bothered with it all.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
hilly07 (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 11:06
This should explain everything



 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 12:22
Does anyone know who are the additional derbies with for the non Irish or Welsh teams?

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 12:36
I suppose to be derbies then the Scots, Italians and South Africans would have to play each other twice. If you can call the South African game a derby, they are only slightly closer together than Edinburgh and Munster - just over 400 miles apart.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 12:37
Presumably

Edinburgh v Glasgow + Glasgow v Edinburgh

Zebre v Benetton + Benetton v Zebre

Kings v Cheetahs + Cheetahs v Kings

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 12:43
Quote:
shaftesbury shark
Does anyone know who are the additional derbies with for the non Irish or Welsh teams?

They play each other 3 times

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
thekeg (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 13:43
There's an article on the BBC website which answers all these questions.....[m.bbc.co.uk]

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 16:21
Thanks for the link, yes, as far as I can see they will play each other 3 times. Guess the home advantage is random? Seems a bit strange but probably there is no better way to do it.

Could mean that if one of those pairs is significantly better than the other there could be some easy points on offer each season, giving a slight advantage to the Irish and Welsh teams.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
02 August, 2017 16:27
This is the first step to SA in the 6N replacing Italy probably, or perhaps one of the "celtic" fridge countries. 7N too much time taken out of the season.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2017 16:28 by Mrs Trellis of North Wales.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Headington Shark (IP Logged)
02 August, 2017 17:28
Problem with 7N is one country has a bye week each round. Not very fair, and not as exciting. One of the reasons Italy was brought in in the first place iirc.

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
02 August, 2017 17:39
Italy were brought in (too late) because they'd beaten all the 5N sides except England. Their case was overwhelming.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Headington Shark (IP Logged)
03 August, 2017 07:18
My error, that's why Italy was chosen as the sixth, but again iirc they were looking for a sixth in the first place to balance the comp (also who doesn't like a bit more money?).

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
03 August, 2017 07:39
They may well look at adding Georgia and having two leagues of four.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
Yareet (IP Logged)
03 August, 2017 11:15
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
This is the first step to SA in the 6N replacing Italy probably, or perhaps one of the "celtic" fridge countries. 7N too much time taken out of the season.

Isn't Wales the only one? I know Eifion played in France but I don't think he's been in the other Celtic nations

 
Re: Pro 12/ Pro 14
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
03 August, 2017 21:29


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