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New scrum laws
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
07 September, 2017 02:32
Did anyone spot any evidence of the new scrum laws coming into effect over the weekend? I only paid attention to our game really, there was hooking for the ball, but not even a hint of putting the ball in straight. Scrum half stepped to his side of the scrum and still threw it in to his second rows feet, JP never batted an eyelid.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016

 
Re: New scrum laws
emerging shark (IP Logged)
07 September, 2017 14:48
In my opinion they are only interested in getting the ball in and out of the scrum as quickly as possible now...

 
Re: New scrum laws
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
07 September, 2017 17:49
Well I saw the ball being put in straight at scrum time. Normally straight to the second rows but occasionally straight to the back row. Strangely the officials missed it.

 
Re: New scrum laws
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
07 September, 2017 17:52
That was my impression too emerging, just a way to restart the game, not a proper competition for the ball. The Australians finally got what they wanted.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2017 17:53 by PoyntonShark.

 
Re: New scrum laws
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
07 September, 2017 23:31
JP Doyle was thenref so hardly likely to get involved given his views that competition for the ball is dangerous.

 
Re: New scrum laws
Flumpty (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 07:40
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Did anyone spot any evidence of the new scrum laws coming into effect over the weekend?

the most obvious ones that I spotted from behind the posts was Nathan Hughes reaching in to the scrum and retrieving the ball from the 2nd row, allowing Dan Robson to break away earlier, dragging a flanker with him.

From TV coverage, hookers were hooking, rather than scrums being an 8 man shove fest.

Referees are no longer notifying the SH when he's happy that the scrum is set to his satisfaction.

At the Ricoh scrums SEEMED to be competed for,completed quicker, had fewer collapses and the game cracked on.
Not to dissimilar to when TT was hooking at Sale and we seemed to get the ball away at one hell of a rate.

 
Re: New scrum laws
thekeg (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 08:12
Given this change in emphasis, does it justify/explain why we don't appear to have gone out and spent big money on props?

 
Re: New scrum laws
MartWhit (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 08:51
I like the new scrum laws. I think well see weaker scrummaging teams able to hook and pick up and play on. And we'll see a lot less playing for penalties.

I dont think the contest is gone, but it is correctly skewed to the putting in side. Of course that depends on whether the refs hold 9's to the straight put in going forward. I do fear they will not, even though that wold be one of the easiest aspects of the game for them to judge.

 
Re: New scrum laws
Flumpty (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 09:50
Quote:
MartWhit
Of course that depends on whether the refs hold 9's to the straight put in going forward. I do fear they will not, even though that wold be one of the easiest aspects of the game for them to judge.

It is very easy to referee, but you need the intent to do it.

On one of the first games that I refereed, my assessor spent quite a bit of time afterwards going through my performance.
In particular, he wanted to know why I was blowing up for "not straight" at nearly every lineout, for both teams. "Easy" says I, "because nearly every throw, from both teams, wasn't straight" and then what happened ? asked the assessor "the other team had choice of scrum or lineout" & what did they do each time asked the assessor ? "sometimes chose a lineout, sometimes chose a scrum" says I, "and if they chose a lineout, was it always a good lineout, or sometimes did you blow them up for not straight" ?

At this stage, the penny finally dropped for me.

No player, coach or spectator wants to see the laws of the game slavishly followed.

I did what I thought was correct (& by the laws, it was correct), but all I was doing was creating a borefest for anyone that was involved or was watching the game.

p.s. foot up before the ball is put into the scrum by the SH is another one that is very easy to "police" as well

 
Re: New scrum laws
MartWhit (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 10:56
think theres a bit of difference between scrum and lineout wrt not straight.

In the scrum theres no excuses, If its not straight its the 9 either chearing of being rubbish

In the lineout, sometimes a hooker will err to his side deliberately, and that is where you should continue to blow up But a degree of tolerance, at the ref's discretion is available for other circumstances. If the throw is skewed to the opponent I'd overlook it, if the wind takes the ball marginally off straight, thats ok, sometimes if the throw is crooked but the opponent wasnt challenging and the ball would have been won anyway to blow up would be pointless.

I had a similar game once where I was skipper and we had a young female ref. She was very clued up on the laws, but a stickler for them on a very windy day. After a number of lineouts failed to complete, myself and the other skipper had a word and we all 3 agreed to be tolerant to wind affected throw ins, and from that point on both teams enjoyed an excellent game refereed with ample common sense.

 
Re: New scrum laws
Crutch (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 10:58
Surely you were right to do so though Flumpty with the result being that the players need to start doing the right thing in order for the game to progress!

It's not for the ref to ignore things in order to make the game flow, Clutch likes that argument but I've always hated it. Why have laws if they can be ignored, and in most cases the infraction is to stop the opposition competing for the ball (lots around the ruck as well as the set piece that refs also ignore).

 
Re: New scrum laws
Flumpty (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 11:01
Quote:
MartWhit

I had a similar game once where I was skipper and we had a young female ref. She was very clued up on the laws, but a stickler for them on a very windy day. After a number of lineouts failed to complete, myself and the other skipper had a word and we all 3 agreed to be tolerant to wind affected throw ins, and from that point on both teams enjoyed an excellent game refereed with ample common sense.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - a quiet word in my ear during the game would have worked wonders for my refereeing performance that day !
I think that the assessor could/should have suggested the same to me at h-t, but was possibly/probably letting it go, to see if I'd pick up on my own mistake/interpretation.

 
Re: New scrum laws
thekeg (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 13:02
Quote:
Crutch
Surely you were right to do so though Flumpty with the result being that the players need to start doing the right thing in order for the game to progress!
It's not for the ref to ignore things in order to make the game flow, Clutch likes that argument but I've always hated it. Why have laws if they can be ignored, and in most cases the infraction is to stop the opposition competing for the ball (lots around the ruck as well as the set piece that refs also ignore).

It's not so much ignore, more a question of where the line is drawn/how it is interpreted as it often isn't black and white in reality. Scrum feeding is a bit different as that has been completely ignored for years

 
Re: New scrum laws
clutch (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 14:34
The second most important responsibility for a ref in my opinion is to let the game flow. He or she needs to do that as fairly and as consistent as possible. There are penalties at every breakdown so the ref has to ignore. Re not straights. Lineouts need to be consistent and reasonable. Technically lineouts are seldom "straight". Scrums I don't care anymore. I'm so bored with watching re sets that I just want the ball out. Shame, cause a competitive scrum is great to watch. Hopefully we are on the way to rectifying it.

 
Re: New scrum laws
MikeGC (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 15:01
In the "good old days" two consecutive not straights earned a free kick against your team
Has that law passed into oblivion ?

 
Re: New scrum laws
clutch (IP Logged)
08 September, 2017 17:31
It's one not straight in theory.


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