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Rugby paper
StrettonShark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 07:31
Good spread on centre mark jennings in rugby paper rightfully being praised after his performance, good to see northern teams / players getting some recognition !

 
Re: Rugby paper
Long Eaton Shark (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 09:10
Any transfer rumours this week?

NZ herald suggesting we were interested in SBW.

 
Re: Rugby paper
MartWhit (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 12:16
all the money in the world wont bring a player like him here. There isnt enough credibility to what we're trying to achieve yet.

 
Re: Rugby paper
Yareet (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 07:12
Quote:
MartWhit
all the money in the world wont bring a player like him here. There isnt enough credibility to what we're trying to achieve yet.

Piutau to Bristol.

 
Re: Rugby paper
MartWhit (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 07:37
I'd argue, still more credibility there.

Pat Lam as new high profile coach, clear investment, and a stadium that largely fills with fans regardless of division or league position. They averaged more than 13k lats year, and >6k in their previous year in the championship. We'd kill for that kind of support.

 
Re: Rugby paper
MartWhit (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 07:39
But your point on Piutau is probably fair. He seems to be content to earn a good wage regardless of whether he's playing for trophies or not. I dont think SBW would put himself in that category. I think he'd want to play for a contender.

 
Re: Rugby paper
thekeg (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 10:22
Carl Hayman was apparently the best paid player in the premiership when at Newcastle so it is possible to get them....

 
Re: Rugby paper
Yareet (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 10:54
Quote:
MartWhit
But your point on Piutau is probably fair. He seems to be content to earn a good wage regardless of whether he's playing for trophies or not. I dont think SBW would put himself in that category. I think he'd want to play for a contender.

SBW has typically played for contenders but has also now won pretty much everything that he can across Union, League and boxing (bar a Lions tour (Sm100)). At some point, I'd imagine he'll move somewhere for the cash. He turned 32 last month so won't have many more contracts left in him.

 
Re: Rugby paper
MartWhit (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 11:19
I think he'd commit fully to boxing if he ran out of rugby options at the top level.

 
Re: Rugby paper
Yareet (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 11:27
Quote:
MartWhit
I think he'd commit fully to boxing if he ran out of rugby options at the top level.

We might be the top level by 2019!

I'd think 34 was late to be making the switch but... then there's Rio

 
Re: Rugby paper
25 September, 2017 15:52
How about SBW v Rio Ferdinand at the AJB?



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Rugby paper
lizard118 (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 23:32
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
MartWhit
I think he'd commit fully to boxing if he ran out of rugby options at the top level.

We might be the top level by 2019!

I'd think 34 was late to be making the switch but... then there's Rio
This is the problem with some folk. You can't just become top level in a short time just because you can afford a few good players.
And don't get me wrong, it's nice that Bristol can afford these players, but you have to establish yourself in the AP first, before you can call yourself top level.

Exeter have done it gradually, consolidating and developing season after season, and Newcastle are now doing it. Bristol will have to go through the same process before talk of top level.

The step between championship and premiership is huge, as Bristol found out, and Irish are finding out now.Any relegated AP club can look good in the championship, but it doesn't mean anything when you go up. And you just can't buy your way to the top as Bath have also found out. Bath are even struggling to raise a United team to fulfil A team fixtures, which, even with their injuries, and all clubs have them, is an embarrassment to the club. Not a club built on solid foundations if you ask me, with all the money they are supposed to have.

The most successful clubs in the AP over the last few years have also had strong academies with players seamlessly moving from senior academy to first team.

 
Re: Rugby paper
lizard118 (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 23:34
Wrong post!

 
Re: Rugby paper
big ted (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 05:52
found this on the SBW front

[www.sportsbusinessdaily.com]

 
Re: Rugby paper
MartWhit (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 08:34
lizard is correct. Other clubs have their problems too. Sale is hardly alone.

The big spending clubs are all losing substantial sums. Sarries may lose several players when contracts are renewed. Wasps have challenging financial repayments to make and no meaningful academy to call on, Bath are reliant on a generous benefactor and have infrastructure issues of their own. Tigers are finding themselves financially limited despite healthy attendances. Worcs have not found their core philosophy and continue to struggle for playing identity. Only Exeter would be held up as a case study in sustainable progression.

I fancy Sarries will make good in the end. They have very little core support. But in contrast with ourselves, they've showered investment around to club to build a team and an infrastructure that any player or fan can be proud of. SO now, the difficult part of buildign a core base of fans probably feels quite attainable to them. Its a 180 deg opposite to our approach

Sale's problem is one of generating momentum with a business model which demands balanced accounts which limits investment to generate to success and future funds.

I like the fact we are trying to do something sustainable. I dont like the fact that our vision is so limited by it. No-one seems able or willing to outline an investment case for doing something more ambitious. Our squad of players and Jets is frankly too small to be fit for purpose. Our marketing effort remain amateurish by the standards set elsewhere. Our income stream in handicapped by lack of ownership of the stadium and the fact the stadium is hamstrung by its location. Even Sale FC is ahead of sharks in many of these respects.

We are locked in a cycle of paying peanuts and getting monkeys. We also like to retry thing which didnt work the first time, and hope for a different outcome the next. We waste a lot of money this way.

 
Re: Rugby paper
buelligansmate (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 08:45
We are locked in a cycle of paying peanuts and getting monkeys. We also like to retry thing which didnt work the first time, and hope for a different outcome the next. We waste a lot of money this way.

Martwhit do you really believe that we have paid peanuts and got the following monkeys - Strauss, O' Conner, Ross, deKlerk?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/09/2017 08:46 by buelligansmate.

 
Re: Rugby paper
26 September, 2017 08:58
I think too many monkeys are being paid macadamia nuts. Is Ross an improvement on Neild at 6? Is Strauss better at 8 than Beaumont? Imho by recruiting 2 back rows and no locks we are wasting Beaumont and Neild. So much for investing in youth. Is Cliff more effective than Stringer?

When you watch AP games you see so many ex Sale Sharks players playing well for other clubs but rarely vice-versa.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Rugby paper
MartWhit (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 09:01
to be clear, I was talking primarily off the field, not on it.

 
Re: Rugby paper
ale shark (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 09:02
Come on now MartW, the bridge is going to be operational in the next few weeks. Things are looking up.

 
Re: Rugby paper
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 09:02
Off field, our recruitment seems to be done on a shoe string. If we are recruiting sports professionals to assist the club, we should be highlighting it in PR's. If we are not investing off field, why not?

Who was the guy who stayed a season, made some progress and then left? He spoke well at a fans q&a (remember those?) and mixed with fans pre match to understand the problems

 
Re: Rugby paper
26 September, 2017 09:08
McKie. Good bloke - ironically one of his worst ideas remains in place ie no discount for booking tickets before the match day.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Rugby paper
45jumper (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 10:03
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
I think too many monkeys are being paid macadamia nuts. Is Ross an improvement on Neild at 6? Is Strauss better at 8 than Beaumont? Imho by recruiting 2 back rows and no locks we are wasting Beaumont and Neild. So much for investing in youth. Is Cliff more effective than Stringer?
When you watch AP games you see so many ex Sale Sharks players playing well for other clubs but rarely vice-versa.

Ross is definitely better than Neild at 6, and Strauss is better than Beaumont at 8, especially considering current form.
Neild is a workhorse but not big enough to be an effective blindside. Beaumont fails to impose himself on games whereas Strauss is an established international with considerable captaincy experience. Signing them was a no-brainer!
I take your Cliff/Stringer point, but Stringer won't go on forever and Cliff is both EQP and an academy product, giving us academy credits in the cap. He's also likely to be content backing FDK up whilst starting some lesser fixtures. Again the logic is pretty evident.

My main concern about the squad are about players like Beaumont and Haley who seem to have stalled in their progress. Beaumont is really struggling at the moment (what on earth was he doing for Williams' try at the weekend?) and Haley seems to have taken his eye off the ball recently.
Our lack of proven props is another real problem. Harrison is doing a manful job but only having one senior loosehead is seriously negligent, and our tighthead situation is equally concerning. Taurus has promise but is prone to mistakes, Aulika looks unfit and his discipline is appalling whilst John needs to time to get up to speed in the scrum. All of us saw these problems before the season, why didn't Dimes?

Having said that I think we are in decent shape going forward, just need to find a way to stay in the game when good opposition starts to exert pressure. We seem to crumble far, far too easily and our defence is too easily disorganised. Killing off games when we're on top (such as against LI) needs to be a more regular thing as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/09/2017 10:05 by 45jumper.

 
Re: Rugby paper
iBozz (IP Logged)
26 September, 2017 12:11
Quote:
lizard118
You can't just become top level in a short time just because you can afford a few good players ... Exeter have done it gradually, consolidating and developing season after season ...

I paraphrase in both cases, but when London Welsh had their little spot of bother, their Chairman blamed it on the fact that they had had only had a few months to prepare for the Premiership. The Exeter Chairman expressed some surprise at this assertion and said that they had had ten years to prepare!



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