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Team for Sarries....
Tigger (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 12:13
Not on offy yet only Twitter...

[twitter.com]



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Re: Team for Sarries....
Tigger (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 12:20
No Addison and J Ross is captain



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Re: Team for Sarries....
clutch (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 12:22
As expected. No O Connor yet. No point in risking him

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Tigger (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 12:23
Harrison
Webber
Tarus
Evans
Beaumont
Ross
T Curry
Strauss
AJ
Faf
Charnley
Jennings
James
Solomona
Haley



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/09/2017 12:23 by Tigger.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
HaleShark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 12:30
The team selection is predictable (not a criticism smiling smiley ) Am I right in thinking that's last weeks starting XV with the exception of Haley and Jones? Looks like we're going for it, and why not.

I reckon O'Conner will play against Gloucester.

Do we have the replacements yet?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/09/2017 12:31 by HaleShark.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Tigger (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 12:38
Neild
Flynn
Aulika
Ostrikov
B Curry
TJ
Cliff
McGuigan



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Re: Team for Sarries....
Devil\'s Advocate (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 13:07
That Sorries team looks far from it. I count at least seven Lions...

Glad I'm in the opposite stand (North) to the other Sharks fans, too. It will make me very easy to spot when we score our bonus-point securing fourth to complete the inevitable rout. Ahem...

15 Alex Goode
14 Sean Maitland
13 Marcelo Bosch
12 Duncan Taylor
11 Liam Williams
10 Owen Farrell
9 Ben Spencer
8 Billy Vunipola
7 Jackson Wray
6 Michael Rhodes
5 George Kruis
4 Maro Itoje
3 Juan Figallo
2 Jamie George
1 Mako Vunipola

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Crutch (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 13:18
Looks like they're full strength to me, although they have so many good players it can be hard to tell!

Agree there's no point risking O'Connor for this one, I think he'll be involved next week.

No surprises in team selection, with Will missing it's easier to slot the rest in. Thought we might see more rotation of the back row given strength in that area, but I guess we're utilising that to some extent through 2 on the bench each week.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
22 September, 2017 22:29
Wiggy & Brad Barritt missing as is Schalk Burger

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:04
According to twitter, late change.
AJ out, Fad to 10, Cliff starts
Oh and 7-0 down after 4mins

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
thekeg (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:09
14-0

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:12
Honestly, this frustrates the hell out of me. We must have had some kind of plan to keep the ball and mike sure Sarries didn't get a flyer. We were either too dumb or too poor to implement it.

Compare and contrast with both Tigers and Falcons, who both came out of the blocks fast and are ahead after 15 mins.

I'd be manic depressive if it wasnt such a predictable outcome that I had a bet on it. Quids in but unhappy.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
HaleShark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:17
Quote:
MartWhit
Honestly, this frustrates the hell out of me. We must have had some kind of plan to keep the ball and mike sure Sarries didn't get a flyer. We were either too dumb or too poor to implement it.
Compare and contrast with both Tigers and Falcons, who both came out of the blocks fast and are ahead after 15 mins.

I'd be manic depressive if it wasnt such a predictable outcome that I had a bet on it. Quids in but unhappy.

I think you're not considering the quality of the opposition.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:22
only in the same way as Falcons arent considering the quality of their opposition at Bath, currently 19-0 UP away from home.

Good as Sarries are, they give you posession readily. Its not rocket science, or beyond the capability of this group to play a few minutes of error free posession rugby. But they havent, and now they're having to chase a 14 point deficit. That IS where Sarries are ruthlessly good.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:43
Genuinely, we are a talented team.

But if you consistently play the key periods badly, consistently make poor calls to drive lineouts not kick penalties, and always put yourself behind before you get into the game, you arent going to be very successful.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
HaleShark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 15:58
You can't expect to beat Sarries without a recognised fly-half. Add to that they are a team that would give most International sides a decent game.

Newcastle are shrewd, typically like Dean Richards. After beating Sale he enjoyed saying they had 'done their homework' on Sale. I think they are a bit underrated and adapt to their opposition better than we do.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:24
think James to 10 probably should have been the starting call today, bring Leota or Denny into the centres. Too big a loss to lose Faf from 9.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
ageinghoody (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:49
Quote:
MartWhit
...
I'd be manic depressive if it wasnt such a predictable outcome that I had a bet on it. Quids in but unhappy.

Surprised you got odds that put you quids in Mart!

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 16:53
bet on Ben Spencer try minutes. Nice.

spread was 23-26 points. Which seemed fair to me.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Olyy (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 17:52
10 situation is a bit of a worry.
We released a few last season, including the senior academy 10, leaving us with AJ (with his long-standing hamstring issues) and JOC who arrived injured with an undetermined return date (have heard 1-2 weeks since pre season!).
If Faf is seen as 3rd choice 10, which I think is definitely a viable option as he's played there in SA, then it leaves us short at 9 as we released our reserve 9s last season.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
iBozz (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 18:12
I'm assuming, as it is now 6:20pm, that any extra time is over and that there is a final score?

I can't find it on this thread (what a surprise) so I'll post it here" 41 - 13 (with us on the thin end).



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Barend (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 19:43
It's not the losses to Wasps and Saracens that worry me, it's the amount of points conceded in two away games that does.

Fair enough 'top 4 teams win their home games' yes, but they also don't ship an average of around 45 points every bloody away game.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
23 September, 2017 19:44
iBozz: But you could have found it at the top of the message list, where I always put the full-time score as soon as I get the opportunity.



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Somewhere in the South Stand



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/09/2017 19:45 by Cap'n Major Bloodnok.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
iBozz (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 19:52
Quote:
Cap'n Major Bloodnok
iBozz: But you could have found it at the top of the message list, where I always put the full-time score as soon as I get the opportunity.

Fair point, Major, wrist duly slapped!

But it always amazes me, going back over the years, why the final score is rarely posted on the former Commentaries thread.

Indeed, I originally started posting the now defunct commentary links because people had clearly found a working link (back in the day when Auntie, in particular, made them very very difficult, if not impossible, to find) yet wouldn't post what it was. The Number of increasingly frustrated "where are you listening and what is your link" style posts was high.

But yes, you are right, I should have looked there - but my point remains that final scores should be posted on the match discussion thread at No Side.



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
dandan2 (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 19:58
Only followed on Twitter, so veiws may be a bit one eyed but the frustrating thing is we could have been in this at half time if 5 m linouts had led to something other than knock ons or penalties against, also Strauss taken off at 43 mins, playing badly or injured?

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 20:27
Strauss was ineffective. TJ made his usual impact. Sarries clearly the better side, but we gifted them points at the start, and a few more later on. Tough break losing AJ, but we posed very little attacking threat until the last 20, when Faf went off and we brought James into 10. We could have had a try bonus, Charnley lost the ball in the tackle on the try line after cutting a great line to carve Sarries up. Tried too hard to place the ball over the line when tackled, had he just held onto the ball he would probably have scored anyway. McGuigan took two tries superbly, the second after a beautifully weighted chip from Ben Curry. The first looked to me to have a clear forward pass in the build up, but ref was well placed and was happy with it. We also butchered a chance after a Ben Curry break this time, fed Cliff who just had to put the ball in Charnley's hands 5m out, but threw a horrible pass a yard in front of him and into touch.

Looked like a typical game that we weren't targeting, which translates to, lost before we set foot on the pitch. Some bright moments but largely forgettable. Hayley was poor,one fine tackle on a rampaging Itoje apart. Aulika and Weber look more up to speed, we had the better of the later scrums.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
HaleShark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 20:54
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Tough break losing AJ, but we posed very little attacking threat until the last 20, when Faf went off and we brought James into 10.

Surprised James wasn't moved into the fly-half role leaving Faf where he's best at 9, would have been an interesting partnership and one that might be together next week if O'Connor isn't fit and assuming A.J. is still out injured.

I don't think the outcome would have been any different though, Sarries have just too much quality and depth of squad.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Barend (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 21:41
Guardian write-up suggests that AJ pulled out due to illness so not necessarily injured and/or out for a bit.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
clutch (IP Logged)
23 September, 2017 21:48
Score line was exactly as I expected. Draw a line under the sand and move on. Was half watching the game. Did we concede any rolling maul tries? Lineout looked like an issue but it sounds like we created some chances at least. Let's save putting them away for when it really matters next week!

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Long Eaton Shark (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 09:55
Positives for me yesterday were:

Curry twins are getting better every game.
Jono Ross led the team well.
TJ Ioane's impact off the bench. Frantic player.
Set piece did better than anticipated.
McGuigan scored 2 very good tries.
James looked more composed at 10 than AJ?

Negatives:

Still undecided what Will Cliff brings to the team.
Need to get our asset Solomona more involved.
Our kicks off are VERY uncompetitive.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 13:42
ANy insight into hwo Nields's lineout throwing held up when he came on?

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 15:51
I don't specifically remember him throwing in, but he must have done. Line-out was OK all game, Itoje and Kruis nicked a few, but they do that to just about everyone.
I thought Cliff had a decent game, we know he's not a world beater, but he was always in position and his pass is crisp and usually accurate. His box kicking was OK, only negative is that he has no running game (not one that I've seen anyway).

Not sure that James looked any more composed than AJ, lack of composure is not one of AJ's issues. He certainly looked more composed and effective than Faf, but that shouldn't really be a surprise.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Rich E (IP Logged)
24 September, 2017 15:54
From what I could see our line out just about held up under great pressure on the jumpers by the Saracens boys. Nield's throwing appeared targeted towards the front of the line rather than Webber's which was more rounded. The scrum platform was the positive though yesterday.

I think we missed AJ more than many will acknowledge. Our game management lacked at both 9 and 10. I assume with Addison's absence it was felt less disruptive to move Faf to 10, rather than Sam James.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
clutch (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 12:51
Managed to watch the game fully. Few observations. All in all not a bad performance against a top side regardless of who they are missing. I think it was a mistake to start Faf at 10. First of all James can play there and from his 30 mins structurally we were at our best of the season. Charnleys break came as a direct result of that. I think he has to start there and we can bring Leota in at 13. Secondly Faf is our best player so play him in his best position.
Both Curry played well. Beaumont is just not imposing himself on games. Charnley looks like a Union winger now. He's starting to hit rucks when we are potentially isolated which is good to see. I'd be tempted to play Maginty at 15 if he can do it. Tarus made a lot of errors and got battered in the loose. Cliff looked good when James was at 10 which is good to see. He wasn't great before but unfair to judge on that.
I think we didn't get the rub of the green. Ref was good but there was a clear forward pass in the build up to the first try and a really harsh call against Haley, which went in favour of Itoje when he did the same. Minor issues but you need that stuff to go for you to stand a chance.
Finally Itoje is an amazing player.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 13:15
good summary Clutch.

James to me looks much the more comfortable 10 vs Faf, at least for the game we are capable of playing. And the loss of Faf's energy and speed at 9 was immeasurable regardless of Cliff's efficiency.

On form alone (which Dimes now says he is finally able to pick on), places need to be found for McGuigan and TJ. If that means Charnley, Haley or Strauss miss out then so be it for now. However, if you pick TJ for Strauss, I'd propose Ostrikov over Beaumont as the better lock combination.

Aside form having little plan to make sure the game stayed tight early and avoid putting Sarries in their position of greatest comfort, the frustration once again was of straightforward chances bombed which might have got one or even 2 bonus points from this game. I simply cant explain why this team can make some of the harder skills look easy (very few people break down Sarries defence) yet routinely mess up straightforward passing and contact skills.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
clutch (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 13:33
The pass from Cliff to Charnley was embarrassing. Let's hope we save all this for the games we wouldn't win anyway!! If we are picking on form I'd pick Ostrikov anyway. The obvious Caviat being Beaumont is learning a new position (at this level) and needs time on the pitch to improve.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 13:36
Errors in the basics have been an issue for us for a couple of seasons at least. I suppose this may be where your coaching argument arises, but you could easily argue that these skills are so basic that they should be mastered long before they become professional players. It's clearly not a matter of not being able to do them, I'm convinced it's a top two inches issue. We don't appear to think as clearly as meany sides and our focus/composure/confidence is regularly absent, resulting in the basic errors I find it extremely frustrating, without those errors we would have been close to matching Sarries (though I felt they had another gear or two to call on if required), if we get anywhere near close to matching Sarries we would beat most others.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 14:10
my thought son it being a coaching issue is that the players can clearly pass, catch, tackle and hold on to a ball.

What they cant do is do it under Premiership game pressure and speed. Which must mean that we arent replicating that in practice sufficiently to be embedded skills that the players can trust and fall back on.

As a case study, look at exeter yesterday. They weren't very spectacular, they didn't do too much that was extravagant, but they had 100% confidence in being able to retain ball in contact and take the ball at pace on the gainline. They were ruthlessly error free. We have a long way to go to match them.

Reports are that Anglesea is coaching the forwards nowadays. He needs to find a way very quickly for our guys to legally slow ball down. The regularity of giving penalties away as soon as the oppo ups the ante is nearing 100% at the moment.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
clutch (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 16:04
Very true. Wasps and Sarries got ludicrously quick ball. It's almost impossible to deal with. I don't buy the coaching issue with such basics. We were fine 2 seasons ago with Cips at 10 once the team got used to Deacons way of coaching. I think it comes from confidence which comes from spending so much time under the cosh that every chance needs to be converted. Sarries know they will have plenty of chances so you naturally are more relaxed. Plus they have had settled 9,10 12 for a while which makes a huge difference.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 17:08
Confess that I havent seen the Sarries game but I felt that we gave away significantly fewer penalties against Newcastle & Irish than was typical last season. Not sure if the stats support this or not?

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
MartWhit (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 18:32
Pretty much every time sarries scored, the ref had his arm out for an advantage in any case. The score was coming even if sarries hadn't managed it first time.

 
Re: Team for Sarries....
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
25 September, 2017 18:49
Not so sure we were fine with Cips, I have nothing to back it up, but I feel that basic errors was still our chief problem, perhaps not so much a contributor to butchered tries.
The commentary I had highlighted how many penalties Sarries were giving away. Although Martwhit is right, at least 3 of Sarries tries were scored under a penalty advantage, we do seem to be much more disciplined than last year. We certainly don't give away anything like so many plain stupid penalties, I'm struggling to remember one this season, last season there were several a game.



There is far too much talk about good ball and bad ball. In my opinion, good ball is when you have possession and bad ball is when the opposition have it." - R.I.P. Dickie Jeeps 25/11/1931 - 08/10/2016


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