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Fao Dave Swanton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 13:45
Quote:
SwannyMediaMan
I will ask about the real ale options next week.

Dave following your post which you chose to put up on here last week, an extract from which I quote above, and reading that there are to be no changes to the real ale arrangements for tonight's game can you please confirm that you did indeed ask about the options and with whom you had these conversations? Can you also confirm what changes if any you asked for and what was the response you got?

Thanks.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
husseym0 (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 14:20
I'm not sure that he answers to you

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
ale shark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 14:24
Swanny answers to no one

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
MartWhit (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 14:26
perhaps the appropriate response is: Not directly answerable to Bullshark, but....

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 14:36
Quote:
husseym0
I'm not sure that he answers to you

No need for that, a perfectly acceptable question from BullShark that many others will be interested in the response on an open forum.

My guess is you are someone from within the club??

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
29 September, 2017 14:56
Quote:
husseym0
I'm not sure that he answers to you

Just to remind you that Bull Shark is a long time customer of the business and one that Steve Diamond is anxious to retain.



https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8657/27965002623_47115a2ac7_t.jpg

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 15:09
I'll be at the ground early tonight. I'll see if I can find the catering manager and ask if any new requests were made for the game this week.
If i find anyone to speak to, is it worth suggesting a fans meeting before the next match to come up with suggestions?

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 15:32
Quote:
M5 Shark
I'll be at the ground early tonight. I'll see if I can find the catering manager and ask if any new requests were made for the game this week.
If i find anyone to speak to, is it worth suggesting a fans meeting before the next match to come up with suggestions?

I suggested similar M5, but it fell on deaf ears. There's such a lost connection with fans and club management and it's been going on for years, certainly since E.P. days. It strikes me that the club have a 1980's approach to fans & clubs interaction. Too much focus on the corporate £'s and not enough on the average punter IMHO.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 15:34
Afternoon I brought the subject up at the debrief and it was decided to keep the real ale bars as they were for his game. The subject of fans migrating around the ground was discussed and is being looked into.
For things like this, post on here by all means but if you email me too It makes things a bit easier for me to track.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/09/2017 15:39 by SwannyMediaMan.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 15:50
Thanks for confirming that it is the catering company refusing to accomodate the club's request to enhance the spectator experience. Can you let us know who took that decision so that those of us who disagree can know to whom we should address our complaints?

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 16:18
Pleased you have responded Swanny but considering you noted you would look into the situation by posting a message on this board it's took a separate thread to get an answer. This it what I mean about a mis-connection with fans.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 16:37
Communicate with me, as always I will pass on the emails to the stadium.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 17:54
With all due respect Dave you have informed us that the stadium haven't taken any notice of you on this. Time therefore for fans to address the relevant parties directly. Enough is enough really. 5 years of awful service and requests to pass comments on to you haven't worked at all. It is probably time for supporters to mobilise and organise a boycott of catering facilities at the stadium. If we starve their profit they may be more inclined to listen.
Anyway, should you not wish to pass on a direct contact I'll find it out myself.
I will be asking why they chose to ignore your requests at the debrief meeting.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Dukky (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 18:29
Is there a debrief after every home match? If so, may I suggest Mr Swanton stops attending. It must be so demoralising being totally ignored for 5 years. And if anyone should know that feeling, it's us Sale fans! Right kids?

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 22:13
Quote:
Bull Shark
With all due respect Dave you have informed us that the stadium haven't taken any notice of you on this. Time therefore for fans to address the relevant parties directly. Enough is enough really. 5 years of awful service and requests to pass comments on to you haven't worked at all. It is probably time for supporters to mobilise and organise a boycott of catering facilities at the stadium. If we starve their profit they may be more inclined to listen.
Anyway, should you not wish to pass on a direct contact I'll find it out myself.
I will be asking why they chose to ignore your requests at the debrief meeting.


Agree entirely.

This is just another example of the poor relationship between, club, stadium management and fans. There's just no communication and as BullShark rightly points out we're 5 years on now and it's just pathetic. There should have always been a working party between the three entities to enhance the match-day experience and to be fair the club it would appear have not tried to embrace such an initiative either.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 22:50
Ah well thats where you appear to be wrong. We had a working party from 2012 to 2014 then stadium meetings. The numbers dwindled and in the end only Graeme Bowers and I attended.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
29 September, 2017 23:02
Quote:
SwannyMediaMan
Ah well thats where you appear to be wrong. We had a working party from 2012 to 2014 then stadium meetings. The numbers dwindled and in the end only Graeme Bowers and I attended.

Is there any chance of seeing if there is interest in starting the meetings again?

From memory, the last meetings were during the week in the middle of the day. Hardly ideal for a large cross-section of the SS target market.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 07:14
Quote:
SwannyMediaMan
Ah well thats where you appear to be wrong. We had a working party from 2012 to 2014 then stadium meetings. The numbers dwindled and in the end only Graeme Bowers and I attended.

What absolute rubbish Dave. There were a handful of meetings which despite being held in the middle of the working day were well attended. Then they stopped with no reason ever given.

As these meetings were minuted Dave I'm sure you can provide further details of exactly how many meetings there were and numbers. Otherwise I will on Monday when I get the chance to look back through my records.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 07:18
Quote:
SwannyMediaMan
Ah well thats where you appear to be wrong. We had a working party from 2012 to 2014 then stadium meetings. The numbers dwindled and in the end only Graeme Bowers and I attended.

But that was 3 years ago Swanny and things still haven't improved. I would imagine numbers dwindled because they weren't getting anywhere. You have to keep on pushing with these things even if attending numbers slip. Don't make it easy for the stadium management, clearly they're not bothered about the average fan. As BullShark points out they'd sit up and take notice if there was a boycott of the refreshments.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 07:33
Moving back on to the real ale, I made my way to the East Stand at half time yesterday to see what I was missing out on. To my surprise they were serving the real ale from bottles. When I got to the front of the queue I asked why and the nice lady told me that this was because they had sold the keg before the match had even started!
So the sparsely populated East Stand polished off the barrel prior to ko. I think that shows that the ale sells. What then are the motives for not having it elsewhere?

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 07:47
Quote:
Bull Shark
What then are the motives for not having it elsewhere?

Some hospitality businesses sell their soul to the devil by availing themselves of 'brewery write-off' or other tying loans which effectively force them into a position of having to sell mostly mass market brews.

I don't know if this is the case for the ajb but it wouldn't surprise me.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 08:14
Yes stadiums tend to be tied in to brewery deals but these days most can supply real ale through their network. The fact they can have one real ale concession in the ground shows they have that avenue + there was real ale in other stands last season.

I was involved last year in a stadium brewery tender and all offered real ale options.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 09:07
Over to you Bull Shark you seem to have far more disposable time than I have. The stadium meetings were great in that the lockdown on car parks was put in place and indeed still exists as one of the initiatives.
The meetings evolved into 'Friends of the Stadium Meetings' on Monday evenings and these included caterers, stadium management, council, residents and fans of Sharks and Reds and in the end only Graeme Bowers and I attended from Sharks. Indeed at one meeting we got the caterers to do pie testing at a fans evening to judge feedback. The meetings were well publicised.If you would like me to set up a meeting with the caterers to pass on your undoubted knowledge of catering and real ale please let me know and I will set it up. In fact I will also attend as I am always looking to improve and learn. You have my email and phone number, let me know and I will set up the meeting, be good to see you.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Timperley Shark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 10:34
Re the various meetings / groups I must agree with Bull Shark. The focus group at Edgeley Park died after a couple of meetings, the stadium group I think lasted no more the 2 meetings (Agree the car park lock down did come out of it) and the Past Players Association was one event only, although many were discussed.

Never knew the AJB group developed into the "Friends of the Stadium"

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 10:35
It was publicised on the web and social media

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 10:54
Ok, ok, is there any chance of resurrecting a fans/stadium/SS meeting? Raise some issues as a group, chat them through, see if there are any solutions and maybe even meet regularly?

Preference would be an weekday evening, maybe in the city centre somewhere. Could the Innside accommodate us for a couple of hours?

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
graemeb (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 11:40
A rare post from me! I can confirm the working party meetings evolved into "Friends of the Stadium" meetings and in the end only Swanny and I attended from Sale Sharks. The forum eventually died a death even though it was a useful way of exchanging information. For the record, when the Supporters Club was set up in 2004 one of the objectives was to represent the views of supporters (not just members) and provide input and feedback to the club on fan issues. When was the last time the Supporters Club met with club management to discuss issues such as catering, car parking, match day experience etc. Surely such a meeting could be a starting point without re-inventing the wheel.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Tigger (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 12:05
Quote:
Timperley Shark
Re the various meetings / groups I must agree with Bull Shark. The focus group at Edgeley Park died after a couple of meetings, the stadium group I think lasted no more the 2 meetings (Agree the car park lock down did come out of it) and the Past Players Association was one event only, although many were discussed.
Never knew the AJB group developed into the "Friends of the Stadium"

Afternoon TS....i went to at least 4 possibly 5 meetings at EP...and also missed some due to work commitments...due to the time of the meetings at AN Bell I couldn't attend.

I remember the SSSC under Ann and then Graeme being very involved sorting out supporter issues at EP....from us getting kicked out of the Saphire suite to having no facilities at all, stewarding issues and the food and drink problem...i am sure the Guinness bar and pre pouring pints came from that as did the wandering guys with beer rucksacks.

The difference at EP was that we owned the stadium therefore it was easy...its going to a bit more challenging to get the stadium to listen....



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/09/2017 12:06 by Tigger.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Timperley Shark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 13:24
Agree Tigger the EP group was certainly the most productive. Ann and Graeme certainly did a fine job in sorting issues.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 19:23
Quote:
SwannyMediaMan
It was publicised on the web and social media

Well I must say that's news to me. I recall going to the first couple of meetings but I was never invited to any further meetings nor was I ever aware it had developed into a 'friends of the stadium' group. Perhaps the people of the group were personally selected by yourself Swanny and maybe I didn't fit the required profile. I would imagine this is the first time many people have ever heard of this'friends of the stadium' group, I find this news quite bizarre but not overly surprising to be honest.

Graemeb, good to hear your views. I agree with your comment, the SSSC perhaps need to be more vocal in sorting out issues. Back in the E.P. days when we both served on the SSSC we had a wonderful committee member in Anne who met head-on with a lot of issues and was never frightened to take the club to task. I don't know too much about the SSSC these days but I would say they don't seem to be challenging the club on issues like we did from the SSSC's conception in 2004.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 20:35
Is that an accusation that I cherry picked picked people? If so you are wrong. The Friends Group was set up by the stadium and we like Reds invited fans to attend. The stadium invited local resident groups. The Gym management also attended

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
30 September, 2017 20:51
Quote:
M5 Shark
Ok, ok, is there any chance of resurrecting a fans/stadium/SS meeting? Raise some issues as a group, chat them through, see if there are any solutions and maybe even meet regularly?
Preference would be an weekday evening, maybe in the city centre somewhere. Could the Innside accommodate us for a couple of hours?


Swanny - Can you help facilitate a fans/stadium/club meeting?

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
ale shark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 06:20
O/T but Swanny, can you ask the stadium management to fix the lights in the car park, particularly right in front of the ground/ticket office where more than half are out.

It's looks cheap and if you're going to play matches in the dark then they should at least make the effort to ensure pedestrian areas are lit where there is a lighting provision.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 06:34
We brought up the issue of lighting after the Irish game. They have a cherry picker booked for Tuesday this week to fix them. As tenants we are reliant on the landlord doing jobs like this. We have volunteers going round pre game building a snagging list and we pass those on. We are grateful to fans like yourself for bringing things like this to our attention.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 08:47 by SwannyMediaMan.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
ale shark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 06:37
Cheers Swanny. Thanks for the response

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 06:41
No problem.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 07:20
Quote:
M5 Shark
Quote:
M5 Shark
Ok, ok, is there any chance of resurrecting a fans/stadium/SS meeting? Raise some issues as a group, chat them through, see if there are any solutions and maybe even meet regularly?
Preference would be an weekday evening, maybe in the city centre somewhere. Could the Innside accommodate us for a couple of hours?


Swanny - Can you help facilitate a fans/stadium/club meeting?

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
emerging shark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 07:43
. As tennants we are reliant on the landlord doing jobs like this.
I think this just about sums up most of the problems we have...
Is tennants not a lager (Sm63)

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 07:48
Landlords have a legal obligation to fix things. Lack of lighting would interest HSE

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 08:48
Apologies on typo, eyes not working properly whilst answering the post at 730am on a Sunday morning

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
iBozz (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 09:10
Quote:
M5 Shark
Landlords have a legal obligation to fix things. Lack of lighting would interest HSE

I suspect, although I am happy to be told how wrong I am (I'm used to it), that provided that the landlord is aware of the problem and taking appropriate steps to correct it then HSE would be satisfied.

I didn't notice that myself (still too upset at the coffee van under the south stand having no power again this week before the kick off) but if they had also taken reasonable steps to ensure that the lighting at least met minimum safety requirements whilst awaiting repair then again they would be satisfied.

At least real coffee was available later when the stadium power supply to the van was restored. (Sm15)



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Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 11:43
Quote:
SwannyMediaMan
Over to you Bull Shark you seem to have far more disposable time than I have. The stadium meetings were great in that the lockdown on car parks was put in place and indeed still exists as one of the initiatives.
The meetings evolved into 'Friends of the Stadium Meetings' on Monday evenings and these included caterers, stadium management, council, residents and fans of Sharks and Reds and in the end only Graeme Bowers and I attended from Sharks. Indeed at one meeting we got the caterers to do pie testing at a fans evening to judge feedback. The meetings were well publicised.If you would like me to set up a meeting with the caterers to pass on your undoubted knowledge of catering and real ale please let me know and I will set it up. In fact I will also attend as I am always looking to improve and learn. You have my email and phone number, let me know and I will set up the meeting, be good to see you.

Disposable time and undoubted knowledge.... thanks for the subtle digs Dave but then again we both know that you've always considered attack to be the best form of defence. No I don't have a huge amount of disposable time but I did always try and create some to help the club. We both know I don't have undoubted knowledge of catering and real ale but I do know that for 6 seasons we've been stuck in a monotonous ground hog day on this. My season ticket this year came with a promise that the new owners would enhance the supporter experience and yet the real ale concession in the West stand which I and many others enjoyed has been withdrawn with no explanation given. We do notice that the club has no problem getting a player's coffee concession into the stadium so clearly they do have leverage when they choose to exercise it.

Hale and Timperley recollection of the stadium meetings are the same as mine. An enthusiastic group of volunteers met to discuss issues. The SSSC were invited personally by you and Sandra and I attended. After the 1st meeting minutes were circulated and agreed. You contacted each of us about the second meeting and most if not all of us attended. There were further minutes issued and then nothing. You had all our direct contacts both email and mobile. Certainly in my case you contacted me regularly by phone and email for all manner of things. Yet neither Hale, Timperley of myself were given any information of this new group? Why when you knew us all personally would you not think to give us notice that the stadium meetings had ended and a new group had been organised? Are we led to believe that it slipped your mind you had a group of committed supporters at your disposal or was this someone else's initiative that you had to pay lip service to with little interest? The coverage could hardly have been extensive as we didn't see it despite being avid followers of Sale's social media. But of course as we hadn't been told the stadium meetings had ended we wouldn't have been looking out for this would we?

Graeme always happy to see you post on this forum. Funny though that you should feel the need to make a rare post to confirm that the group existed. The wording is a little strange. I take it Dave's been in touch?

Dave you had a working model of supporters meeting with the stadium that for whatever reason you discontinued. You are the paid employee not me and your responsibilities include supporter liaison. So I'd suggest you go ahead and arrange a new working group. The emphasis as a paid employee is on you to get the ball rolling and I'll do my best to participate. You have my number and my email so I look forward to receiving the details



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 11:44 by Bull Shark.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 11:47
Quote:
SwannyMediaMan
Is that an accusation that I cherry picked picked people? If so you are wrong. The Friends Group was set up by the stadium and we like Reds invited fans to attend. The stadium invited local resident groups. The Gym management also attended

Make of it what you want but expect comments like this when someone who volunteered his time to sit on a fans/club/stadium meeting and then finds out years later another initiative was formed but those attending the first meeting were excluded/kept in the dark. Quite often I just don't understand where you or the club are coming from or going to. I feel that you and the club bring a lot of this negativity upon yourself. There is a lot of disconnection between fans and club, it could be so much better... We all want you and the club to achieve much more.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
01 October, 2017 11:49
If you hold meetings in normal working hours in your own workplace then you shouldn't really expect people working elsewhere to attend. That's why the SSSC for instance hold meetings in the evenings in a convenient location.



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Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 12:05
We published the meetings and open invitations. There were no exclusions. Always good to meet people and talk face to face. All our staff are friendly and approachable. In fact, fancy a brew at the next home game and a chat HaleShark. Let me know be good to see you again.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 12:39
See the open invitation thread. I won’t rise to the bait you want me to take and look forward to you letting me know what dates and times suit you to come to Carrington.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2017 12:47 by SwannyMediaMan.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
Bull Shark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 13:06
Dave I can only speak for myself but there is no bait other than maybe a need to give you a push so that just maybe we can put an end to the same issues cropping up season after season. Whether you agree or not there is a perceived detachment between the supporters and the club and declining attendances don't tell a lie. The club is powerless in certain instants but it has been guilty of taking us for granted.
Incidentally I liked the kids activities before the last game, something we haven't had other than for special occasions for 5 seasons. Let's hope that can be continued and also communicated to supporters in advance of matches so parents are aware there will now be something for their kids to do. The music in the marquee has worked well for the last 2 games. The challenge now is to plan for winter and the grass area around it becoming muddy quagmire. 2 relatively easy but welcome initiatives we need to tweak with the winter approaching but continue long term.
I've replied to your invitation thread. Subject to the date being one i can make I would be delighted to attend.

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 13:09
Thank you

 
Re: Fao Dave Swanton
HaleShark (IP Logged)
01 October, 2017 13:52
Quote:
SwannyMediaMan
See the open invitation thread. I won’t rise to the bait you want me to take and look forward to you letting me know what dates and times suit you to come to Carrington.

No one is trying to bait you Swanny, we're way beyond that. People are at the end of their tether about certain issues and the frustration is obvious in the content of these messages.


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