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Warburton Bridge
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 12:01
The Warburton Bridge will be Toll-Free this Friday between 4:30pm and 7:30pm courtesy of the Sale Sharks.
The hope is that this will alleviate rush-hour congestion by the barriers being continuously lifted, meaning that the Friday night commute home will be swifter and travel will be smoother to the AJ Bell Stadium for Sale Sharks’ match against Toulouse in the European Challenge Cup.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 13:14
Great initiative!

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
HaleShark (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 13:30
Nice thought. The toll bridge isn't much but a kind consideration non the less.

Shame I can't take advantage, I'm working sad smiley

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 15:54
Well done, Swanny and whoever.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
emerging shark (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 15:57
Good initiative, surprised not thought of before. If we assume that 200 cars use it each way, it will cost the club £50!

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Crutch (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 16:03
Yes, it's the time saving rather than the cost saving that's the important factor - good move by the club.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 17:41
Quote:
emerging shark
Good initiative, surprised not thought of before. If we assume that 200 cars use it each way, it will cost the club £50!

Presumably the club have agreed to finance every car crossing the bridge between 4.30 and 7.30pm, rather than just those that may be going to the game. I would have thought that there would be more than 200 cars each way during that 3 hour window, particularly with it being Friday night rush hour? Even so, it is so cheap that even if the figure was 1000 cars each way, it is hardly going to bankrupt us!

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 17:49
Quote:
Chris1850
Quote:
emerging shark
Good initiative, surprised not thought of before. If we assume that 200 cars use it each way, it will cost the club £50!

Presumably the club have agreed to finance every car crossing the bridge between 4.30 and 7.30pm, rather than just those that may be going to the game. I would have thought that there would be more than 200 cars each way during that 3 hour window, particularly with it being Friday night rush hour? Even so, it is so cheap that even if the figure was 1000 cars each way, it is hardly going to bankrupt us!

I think that the point is to reduce the traffic buildup, which can be considerable, rather than to subsidise the fans journey, so many he cost is irrelevant....

A great initiative, thank-you

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
LJK (IP Logged)
11 October, 2017 18:01
Thanks Swanny... to be fair the bridge hasn't been an issue of late possibly due the lower crowds coming to the game, but anything that speeds up the journey helps. The real issues occur at short notice when there are problems on the M6

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
SwannyMediaMan (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 09:49
Thanks go to the owners for organising this for you.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
14 October, 2017 16:55
And it was free on the way home too Swanny! (Sm128)

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Timpers (IP Logged)
14 October, 2017 19:10
A good idea, and thanks to SS.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
HaleShark (IP Logged)
15 October, 2017 11:26
Quote:
rolynhome2Chester-again!
And it was free on the way home too Swanny! (Sm128)

It's always free on the way home. I think they stop taking tolls by 9/10 pm.

Great initiative though. Certainly worth making it a regular thing or at least until the road infrastructure is sorted near the stadium.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Tigger (IP Logged)
16 October, 2017 12:20
Quote:
HaleShark
Quote:
rolynhome2Chester-again!
And it was free on the way home too Swanny! (Sm128)

It's always free on the way home. I think they stop taking tolls by 9/10 pm.

Great initiative though. Certainly worth making it a regular thing or at least until the road infrastructure is sorted near the stadium.

I thought there was a honesty box for when the toll booth was not manned...??


PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE POST IS ME POSTING AS A POSTER NOT A MODERATOR AND IT SHOULD NOT BE INFERRED THAT I AM TRYING TO IN ANY WAY MODERATE THIS THREAD WITH MY PERSONAL COMMENT.



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Please try to keep discussions generally polite. ADMIN will ban without warning anyone who makes a post that falls into any of the following categories: potentially legally actionable; foul or abusive; deliberately or persistently disruptive; spam. No sockpuppets. Please do not feed the trolls.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
HaleShark (IP Logged)
16 October, 2017 15:42
Quote:
Tigger
Quote:
HaleShark
Quote:
rolynhome2Chester-again!
And it was free on the way home too Swanny! (Sm128)

It's always free on the way home. I think they stop taking tolls by 9/10 pm.

Great initiative though. Certainly worth making it a regular thing or at least until the road infrastructure is sorted near the stadium.

I thought there was a honesty box for when the toll booth was not manned...??


PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE POST IS ME POSTING AS A POSTER NOT A MODERATOR AND IT SHOULD NOT BE INFERRED THAT I AM TRYING TO IN ANY WAY MODERATE THIS THREAD WITH MY PERSONAL COMMENT.

I wouldn't have thought so. I'll slow down and take a look next time I traverse the bridge late at night.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
mattw7787 (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 14:30
Just thought I'd pass on a titbit re: Stadium access... the lifting bridge over the Ship Canal and the associated works (known as part-WGIS) are now all but complete. However, the delightful part-owners of our stadium are now in a legal wrangle with Salford & Trafford councils.

The long and short of it is that Peel are demanding that Salford/Trafford adopt the bridge and take full responsibility for operating, managing, maintaining and insuring it. The Councils are resisting this on the basis that they've had no role in the design, procurement or construction of the bridge and operating lifting bridges isn't thier job. Peel are now refusing to open the bridge etc, unless and until the Councils acquiesce to thier demands, even tho the bridge was paid for mostly by us as tax-payers (£19m grant + £11m loan at preferential rates). If the Councils don't adopt the bridge, Peel say it will become a toll bridge (like Worthington only significantly more expensive), which would be utter carnage on match days.

If you're inclined to do so, you may wish to express your opinions on these tactics to Peel/Intu's management (for all the good it'll do)...

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
ale shark (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 15:35
Cheers Matt, post of the year! You couldn't make it up.

It would have been obvious to everyone in the design and approval process from the outset whether or not it would be adoptable. The commuted sum from the developer required for the adoption of a mechanically operated bridge would be stratospheric, particularly one that’s prone to falling down.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 16:18
What's one more white elephant in the general scheme of things?

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
emerging shark (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 16:40
(Sm22)
(Sm18)

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
HaleShark (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 17:24
Words fail me.......... almost. Yes, you really couldn't make it up could you. It's just laughable, FFS.........

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
25 October, 2017 22:52
It's ok, a precedent has already been set. The club owners will no doubt be paying all toll fees for SS supporters![:wor kid:]

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Mickthemove (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 12:01
I think Simon has sorted Warby bridge again this week, hopefully so as it made a big difference last time, (Sm128) no doubt someone can confirm

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 13:52
It has indeed been confirmed on social media, Mick.

Pretty bold move of Peel and the council to fall out over this when they know that we are considering alternative sites and the swing bridge potentially eases one of the major recurrent gripes over the stadium.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 15:20
It's complete incompetence on both Peel and the Council's sides that this wasn't ALL sorted out at the planning consent stage. To build it without such agreement is UNBELIEVABLY IDIOTIC.(Sm102)

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
ale shark (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 15:25
All parties would have known exactly what the status of the bridge would be post-construction, pretty much form day 1 of the design process. I think it's pretty clear which party is try to pull a fast one.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 16:48
It has to be Peel. With the bridge having failed once already I expect the cost of insuring it against future failure and consequential damage and delay to businesses etc is prohibitive.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
emerging shark (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 18:01
Do you know how much it cost and what percentage of public money went into it?

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
mattw7787 (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 19:21
Quote:
emerging shark
Do you know how much it cost and what percentage of public money went into it?

My understanding is that the total project cost is c£50m. Of that, £19m was covered by government/EU grants, and a further £11m in low interest loan by Salford Council (which they’ve since permitted a deferment of repayments against), leaving c£20m from Peel’s own coffers.

If you wanted to, you could compare that contribution against the value generated by the 3,000 dwellings and 800,000 sq.ft of office space at their Trafford waters scheme; and the several million sq.ft of logistics sheds at Port Salford. You’d find it to be a tiny proportion. Yet still they think they should decide who gets to use the bridge, when and for how long they can cause chaos on that part of the M60.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
ulsterlad (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 22:14
Quote:
mattw7787
Quote:
emerging shark
Do you know how much it cost and what percentage of public money went into it?

My understanding is that the total project cost is c£50m. Of that, £19m was covered by government/EU grants, and a further £11m in low interest loan by Salford Council (which they’ve since permitted a deferment of repayments against), leaving c£20m from Peel’s own coffers.

If you wanted to, you could compare that contribution against the value generated by the 3,000 dwellings and 800,000 sq.ft of office space at their Trafford waters scheme; and the several million sq.ft of logistics sheds at Port Salford. You’d find it to be a tiny proportion. Yet still they think they should decide who gets to use the bridge, when and for how long they can cause chaos on that part of the M60.

My understanding is your figures are correct.

However Peel has successfully built 2 warehouses on the A57 outside the original planning consent, which specifies that the new bridge and a rail link was completed before any further development.

They applied for an exception for the first warehouse based on it would only be completed 1 month before the bridge opened (April 2016). The second warehouse they claimed was outside Port Salford planning consent .

The original planning requited a rail! Link which both Peel and Salford Council appear to have forgotten about.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
mattw7787 (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 23:03
Indeed. Peel seem to think they should be able to put more and more (and more) traffic on to that bit of the motorway (which they screwed up with the Trafford centre in the first place), without having to do anything to address the chaos their developments have and continue to cause.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
ale shark (IP Logged)
26 October, 2017 23:29
Would be nice to see some facts/statements about this from the councils. Perhaps the MEN should run with a real piece of investigative journalism for once.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
ulsterlad (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 00:10
Quote:
ale shark
Would be nice to see some facts/statements about this from the councils. Perhaps the MEN should run with a real piece of investigative journalism for once.

I nominate you Sir for the most humourous post of the season! The MEN and journalism is funny enough, but to suggest investigative journalism.......

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 13:31
Quote:
ulsterlad
Quote:
ale shark
Would be nice to see some facts/statements about this from the councils. Perhaps the MEN should run with a real piece of investigative journalism for once.

I nominate you Sir for the most humourous post of the season! The MEN and journalism is funny enough, but to suggest investigative journalism.......

To be fair they could investigate what journalism is. After that who knows what might be possible?

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Tigger (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 14:04
Two points here...


One...we can not infer in any way that Salford council are just a division of Peel Holdings. That would be not true and a slur on both the council and Peel Holdings. (cant find the straight face smiley).



Quote:
mattw7787
Indeed. Peel seem to think they should be able to put more and more (and more) traffic on to that bit of the motorway (which they screwed up with the Trafford centre in the first place), without having to do anything to address the chaos their developments have and continue to cause.

You could actually say that Peel Holdings/Salford Council have actually done enough with the roads around the Trafford Center etc...the problem is that it is the Highways Agency that looks after the motorway and slip roads...now if only we can get these three esteemed bodies together....but I believe the answer is 'ah that would not be my problem'.



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/DEmmerich/gws21.jpg

Please try to keep discussions generally polite. ADMIN will ban without warning anyone who makes a post that falls into any of the following categories: potentially legally actionable; foul or abusive; deliberately or persistently disruptive; spam. No sockpuppets. Please do not feed the trolls.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
mattw7787 (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 14:44
Quote:
Tigger
Two points here...

One...we can not infer in any way that Salford council are just a division of Peel Holdings. That would be not true and a slur on both the council and Peel Holdings. (cant find the straight face smiley).

You could actually say that Peel Holdings/Salford Council have actually done enough with the roads around the Trafford Center etc...the problem is that it is the Highways Agency that looks after the motorway and slip roads...now if only we can get these three esteemed bodies together....but I believe the answer is 'ah that would not be my problem'.

Don't think i inferred that, but I completely disagree on the latter point. It's an established planning principle the development should provide the infrastructure required to make its impacts acceptable. Peel failed to do that when they brought the M60 to a grinding halt with the Trafford Centre, and have since failed to do so with each and every application they have made sebsequently (Barton Sqare, Chill factor*e, Port Salford, driving range, office blocks etc etc). Each of these have made the problem Peel caused much worse than it would otherwise have been.

The partial contribution to towards part-WGIS was delayed many times over through variations to conditions requiring part-WGIS to be in place before certain developments take place. And now they have finally put thier hand in thier pocket, they want to hold us to ransom over its use.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Tigger (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 15:01
Quote:
mattw7787
Quote:
Tigger
Two points here...

One...we can not infer in any way that Salford council are just a division of Peel Holdings. That would be not true and a slur on both the council and Peel Holdings. (cant find the straight face smiley).

You could actually say that Peel Holdings/Salford Council have actually done enough with the roads around the Trafford Center etc...the problem is that it is the Highways Agency that looks after the motorway and slip roads...now if only we can get these three esteemed bodies together....but I believe the answer is 'ah that would not be my problem'.

Don't think i inferred that, but I completely disagree on the latter point. It's an established planning principle the development should provide the infrastructure required to make its impacts acceptable. Peel failed to do that when they brought the M60 to a grinding halt with the Trafford Centre, and have since failed to do so with each and every application they have made sebsequently (Barton Sqare, Chill factor*e, Port Salford, driving range, office blocks etc etc). Each of these have made the problem Peel caused much worse than it would otherwise have been.

The partial contribution to towards part-WGIS was delayed many times over through variations to conditions requiring part-WGIS to be in place before certain developments take place. And now they have finally put thier hand in thier pocket, they want to hold us to ransom over its use.

Sorry wasn't inferring you personally were saying that...

Peel holdings have over the years seem to have done what they want....before the M60 ring road the Manchester ship canal was always a problem...now it is an even worse problem...one that would mean the government spending money to improve through the Highways Agency...not something that is going to happen...and in the meantime peel holdings carry on regardless....



http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a83/DEmmerich/gws21.jpg

Please try to keep discussions generally polite. ADMIN will ban without warning anyone who makes a post that falls into any of the following categories: potentially legally actionable; foul or abusive; deliberately or persistently disruptive; spam. No sockpuppets. Please do not feed the trolls.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
emerging shark (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 15:35
They managed a new Bridge over the Mersey...

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
ale shark (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 15:47
Quote:
emerging shark
They managed a new Bridge over the Mersey...

I assume you’re talking the new Runcorn Bridge. That was a Highways England scheme which probably involved CPOs.

This is, I think, just local authority highways works on what was private land, complicated by council boundaries splitting halfway across the elephant. No council in their right mind would want to adopt the bridge, the running costs and insurance will be huge.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
iBozz (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 23:08
Jack Straw wrote a very interesting article about Peel Holdings and their treatment of planning permission matters at Whitebirk, Blackburn.

It was published on-line at 12:01AM on 25 July 2012 and if you can find a copy (I have one) it is worth looking at. It makes interesting reading and puts the bridge ransom into some perspective.



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
27 October, 2017 23:15
Are you saying you believe what Jack Straw says?

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Signsurfer (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 12:16
Anyone know if the toll is lifted for tonights game?

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
iBozz (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 13:37
Quote:
DaveAitch
Are you saying you believe what Jack Straw says?

Sorry, just seen this!

Absolutely, to the best of my knowledge he wasn't sued so presumably his observations are factually correct.



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 13:43
....other explanations for not suing are perfectly possible!

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
iBozz (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 15:36
Quote:
H's Dad...
....other explanations for not suing are perfectly possible!

True but again, to the best of my knowledge, there was no rebuttal either.



No matter what you say, or how you say it, someone somewhere will deliberately go out of their way to be offended.

In loving memory of Her Ladyship - d: 29/12/2007.

You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone. RiP

Please help medical research by Folding@Home and join Swanny's Irregulars - PM me for details. Please!


South Stand with The New Birtles Faithful.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 15:43
..other explanations for not issuing a rebuttal are also possible!
This might indicate one!(Sm159) this another!(Sm164)
...and of course this might indicate their attitude in ignoring all criticism and soldiering on riding roughshod over any sense of morality....!(Sm138)

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
Signsurfer (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 16:30
So that’s a no then is it?

Or is everyone keeping it their own little secret?

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
C3Q (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 17:26
Quote:
Signsurfer
Anyone know if the toll is lifted for tonights game?

I can't find a Travel Plan anywhere so have no idea I'm afraid.....was thinking of using that route but I heard that it is normally very busy......

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
hilly07 (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 18:34
Just gone through the lifted toll. The area was empty.

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 22:00
A57 from Eccles was considerably less busy, but still crawling from the Asda jumction

 
Re: Warburton Bridge
C3Q (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 22:01
Indeed it was. 25 minutes from Ashton on Mersey to the City Airport and an easy walk to the stadium.


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