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Greedy England et al..?
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 08:35
Samoan Rugby effectively bankrupt
Discuss...

Must admit it would appear that the bigger rugby nations have acted like the leading Premier League sides rather than look to the wider future of the international game in the past.

However could and should they do far more than the details outlined?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2017 08:39 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
emerging shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 09:01
Hughes and Tuilangi are calling on the English players to give a % of their £22,000 match fee to Samoa...

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
ale shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 09:10
Whilst itís a noble gesture the players shouldnít be getting involved or put in a position where they get asked questions about the issue.

Itís an IRB issue in how they spread the funding. If the RFU want to help the Samoan union by covering their costs this week then thatís great but the players shouldnít get involved.

Why should someone like Tom Curry have to dig into his pockets? Where do you draw the line? Doesnít sit comfortably with me.

(edit, Ben corrected to Tom!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2017 09:47 by ale shark.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
emerging shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 09:23
Agreed. I have visions of brown envelopes being passed around the changing rooms after the match...(Sm63)

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
Flumpty (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 09:37
Quote:
ale shark
Itís an IRB issue in how they spread the funding. If the RFU want to help the Samoan union by covering their costs this week then thatís great but the players shouldnít get involved.


From this BBC article, the RFU are already covering the costs of the Samoan Union once they're here and World Rugby pays for their flights to get here.

But I appreciate that there is an absolutely enormous financial gap between the two Unions.

Isn't this the same story that did the rounds 3 years ago, when this famous picture was taken ?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/11/22/2369D91800000578-2845697-image-2_1416700500300.jpg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2017 09:37 by Flumpty.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 09:45
Quote:
Whilst itís a noble gesture the players shouldnít be getting involved or put in a position where they get asked questions about the issue.
Itís an IRB issue in how they spread the funding. If the RFU want to help the Samoan union by covering their costs this week then thatís great but the players shouldnít get involved.

Why should someone like Ben Curry have to dig into his pockets? Where do you draw the line? Doesnít sit comfortably with me.


They should get involved because they want to. I would hope they would only act like this if they were unanimously in favour of doing so.

Frankly it is appalling how the minor rugby nations have been treated (and run by their administrators) over the years and the more anyone can do then it can only be better for the sport as a whole. If the players want to raise the visibility of this then I think this is great and they should be applauded.

There isn't a rugby team anywhere, club or nation, that hasn't / isn't benefiting from players from these countries. If we run them into bankruptcy no-one will be better off.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
HaleShark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 10:18
You can have the best players in the world, with the best facilities and the best stadiums but if the opposing team can't afford to turn up then what you have is actually worthless.

I agree, it's not the the players to organise the sharing of match fees, it's down to the people who run World Rugby to make sure the smaller nations are getting their fair share of the revenues.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 10:19
There's an enormous financial gap between the RFU and the NZRU too, but hopefully we wont be paying them.

I think the gesture made by the RFU, and also by individual players is excellent and shows their empathy for a tough and somewhat unfair situation.

However, the issue is a large and fundamental one, between World Rugby and the Samoa RU. England cant and wont be anything more than a sticking plaster to a large wound. The most productinve long term contribution the RFU could make would be to commit to a regular England fixture in Samoa.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
Flumpty (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 10:37
Previously, hasn't there been "concerns" about senior politicians getting overly involved in the running of the Samoan Rugby Union and claims of corruption (in the system, not by the players)

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
WithingtonShark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 10:53
High time the big nations pay a "South Seas Tax" for each player born in Samoa, Tonga, Fiji etc playing internationals for Eng, Fra, Wales, NZ, Aus etc...

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 11:05
A few years ago, when Mark Evans was CEO, Quins hosted an Autumn international warm-up game against Samoa in which all of the proceeds went to the visitors.

It's a pity the RFU don't have the decency to give a suitable proportion of the enormous profit they will make from this game to the Samoans.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 11:30
I think, as Flumpty suggests, you'd want to know where that proportion was going to go before you considered offering it.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 11:38
Agree with most of the above.

But one thing I do disagree is that this not for the RFU and England to do something about.

We could, if we so choose, commit now to visiting Samoa, and other such teams for away fixtures during our summer tours. I think it is really scandalous that England have never visited Samoa for a match.

Second, we could organise a more equitable arrangement to share revenues from our home games. And yes, I do think that could stretch to all countries, including NZ, not just the "smaller" nations. But perhaps to different extents.

It does not benefit England or rugby if we are left with no countries to play because they are all bankrupt.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 12:29
not australia though surely Shaftesbury? (Sm100)

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 16:06
Quote:
MartWhit
I think, as Flumpty suggests, you'd want to know where that proportion was going to go before you considered offering it.

I don't think Flumpty said that at all but I agree it is a concern.

However if the money was paid to the Samoan RFU and the sum paid was made known to all interested parties (including the IRcool smiley then it is difficult to know what else they could do.

Other than keep all the receipts citing possible corruption concerns as an excuse for their greed of course.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 16:08
I think the current RL World Cup pool games give another insight into why European countries might perhaps be reluctant to tour to the South Pacific islands (with their higher temperatures and humidity.)
It would appear European players are pretty poorly equipped physiologically to be competitive under some climatic conditions!

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 16:23
Surely pool games are good in high temperatures and humidity.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 16:26
Quote:
MW
not australia though surely Shaftesbury? (Sm100)


there is always a line that has to be drawn somewhere :-)

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
Flumpty (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 16:26
Quote:
SimonG19
Quote:
MartWhit
I think, as Flumpty suggests, you'd want to know where that proportion was going to go before you considered offering it.

I don't think Flumpty said that at all but I agree it is a concern.


With regards the sticky at the top of the page, I was (hopefully) very careful in what I wrote !

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 18:29
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
SimonG19
Quote:
MartWhit
I think, as Flumpty suggests, you'd want to know where that proportion was going to go before you considered offering it.

I don't think Flumpty said that at all but I agree it is a concern.


With regards the sticky at the top of the page, I was (hopefully) very careful in what I wrote !

Indeed. I think you merely asked a question which is why I said what I did.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 19:09
Quote:
DaveAitch
Surely pool games are good in high temperatures and humidity.

Ideally billiards would be played in a well ventilated crucible.

On topic the stadium facilities that the Islanders have would probably make Edgeley park look like a 5 star stadium. Samoa probably has one of the better venues. The fact that they're not guaranteed world cup qualification at the minute could cause major issues too.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 19:21
I congratulated the All Blacks for playing there, until I found out what their travel bill was. Samoa were apparently £200,000 out of pocket on the game (but the IRU, or whoever, did step in to pay it). I find it strange that rugby has this wish to spread the game, but only if, it seems, that can be done without costing anything.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
thekeg (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 19:46
There's an interview on the rugby dungepn podcast which discusses a lot of these issues, I think his name is Dan Leo and he is the person responsible for (amongst other things) helping south sea islanders settle in the UK when they come over. He talked about the unions over there and from memory he was pretty scathing about the Samoan union in particular. If that is true then this situation may be far more complex than it appears and simply throwing money at the issue may just delay issues rather than resolve them.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 20:09
Dan Leo is a Samoan ex Wasp and London Irish second row/back row. Pretty handy.

Now quite a mouthpiece for player interests and welfare.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 20:51
Quote:
MartWhit
Dan Leo is a Samoan ex Wasp and London Irish second row/back row. Pretty handy.

And currently playing No 8 for Bishop's Stortford in National One!

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 21:08
wow.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 22:00
There are undoubtedly wider issues between world Rugby and the Samoan union, but given the previous RFU CEO was blunt about his lack of interest in helping grow the game vis-ŗ-vis Georgia in the Six Nations, I'm not sure that organisation has much interest in helping Samoan rugby.

 
Re: Greedy England et al..?
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
10 November, 2017 01:55
Quote:
Pappje Shark
There are undoubtedly wider issues between world Rugby and the Samoan union, but given the previous RFU CEO was blunt about his lack of interest in helping grow the game vis-ŗ-vis Georgia in the Six Nations, I'm not sure that organisation has much interest in helping Samoan rugby.
Yes, I had initially forgotten that stance had been taken about Georgia, but with your prompt I recall someone high up in the 6N organisation making similar noises. The trouble is that we all like our annual game against the other home nations.


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