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England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
BasilBullneck (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 12:56
Interesting selection for Saturday:

England XV: Mike Brown; Anthony Watson, Jonathan Joseph, Henry Slade, Elliot Daly; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Mako Vunipola, Dylan Hartley (capt), Dan Cole, Courtney Lawes, George Kruis, Chris Robshaw, Sam Underhill, Nathan Hughes

Replacements: Jamie George, Ellis Genge, Harry Williams, Joe Launchbury, Tom Curry, Danny Care, Alex Lozowski, Semesa Rokoduguni.

From a Sale point of view I am disappointed for Tom. Torygraph compared Underhill and Tom, saying the former is more is the destructive mold of a McCaw, whereas Tom is more creative and taller with more of an all round game.

I am disappointed that EJ hasn't tried to experiment a bit more. I appreciate he has rested two leaders in Farrell and Itoje, but I would have liked to have seen the bench front row as starters rather than impact players/finishers. Genge did start against Argentina in the summer and a bit more experience would have done him no harm.I am pleased to see Slade given a run at inside centre. He appears to be on fire at the moment. I would have liked to see Watson at full back and May on the wing as starters.

Even though such changes would make the team much greener and would have a lot of caps on the bench, there is still plenty of experience, and Youngs could have captained or Kruis. There would be pace aplenty in the backs as well.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
Flumpty (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 13:23
Basil, sorry to be a pedant, but England are playing Argentina this weekend, not Samoa.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
clutch (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 13:38
I'd pick Underhill. Both are young players so a case of picking the player Jones prefers.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
ale shark (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 13:43
Wish he would try a 9 other than Youngs or Care

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
thekeg (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 13:55
Think we need to see the three game selection plan before we judge. Suspect the Samoa selection may be more experimental.

Jones seems to really like a destructive tackler at 7, so can see why he likes underhill

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 13:59
IMO I think Jones got it about right here.

As a tactical choice, to have the solidity of underhill to be supplanted by the pace and skills of Curry at 50 mins seems the better way around to me.

Have either of the 2 front row prop tyro's earned the start yet. Propably not and best to keep them hingry on the bench. They'll both get plenty of gametime.

Of course, none of the above applies to Mike Brown, who is simply irreplaceable.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
Yareet (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 14:02
By the end of the game, the game plan would seem to be to have a XV of

Genge
George
Williams
Launchbury
Lawes/Kruis
Curry
Underhill
Robshaw (see the supposed video of Eng v Wal forwards)
Care
Lozowski
Daly
Slade
Joseph
Roko
Watson

That feels more like a team for the future. Although I'd like to see Simmonds at 8 at some point in the AIs.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 14:03
tragically just hearing on twitter that Curry is having scans on his wrist and has been replaced on the bench by Simmons.

Lets hope this is a case of old injury being not quite healed than a reoccurrence and a setback.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
Yareet (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 14:13
Quote:
Yareet
Although I'd like to see Simmonds at 8 at some point in the AIs.

Quote:
MartWhit
tragically just hearing on twitter that Curry is having scans on his wrist and has been replaced on the bench by Simmons.
Lets hope this is a case of old injury being not quite healed than a reoccurrence and a setback.

That's not what I meant!

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 14:42
It's hard to argue with the selections Eddie Jones has made since he took charge. When (if) he loses a few on the bounce we might have a case for our own ideas.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
Flumpty (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 15:46
Quote:
MartWhit

Of course, none of the above applies to Mike Brown, who is simply irreplaceable.

I wonder if Mike Brown knows where the bodies are buried eye popping smiley

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
Yareet (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 17:57
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
MartWhit

Of course, none of the above applies to Mike Brown, who is simply irreplaceable.

I wonder if Mike Brown knows where the bodies are buried eye popping smiley

Whatever the criticism of Brown, EJ is clearly happy with him and picking him over other possibilities so he must be doing what EJ wants in some way.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 18:16
You do have to give mike brown credit for being very solid under a high ball. He has also given a couple of scoring passes more recently, one of which in Argentina was sublime. So he also ticks the box for constant improvement that Eddie likes. In terms of individual skill, he is good at beating the first man on the counter attack.

IMO he still has a chronic lack of spatial awareness and how to facilitate anyone whose name isnít m brown to use it. In that respect I think he narrows Englandís attacking game massively.

Is that better or worse than Alex Goode?. Hard to say. Brown is more consistent, but if England never move from being a very good team to a great one, his limitations will be a major factor.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
thekeg (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 18:17
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
MartWhit

Of course, none of the above applies to Mike Brown, who is simply irreplaceable.

I wonder if Mike Brown knows where the bodies are buried eye popping smiley

Whatever the criticism of Brown, EJ is clearly happy with him and picking him over other possibilities so he must be doing what EJ wants in some way.

He seems to value a fairly traditional solid full back who will take the high ball well and make his tackles, he certainly doesn't seem to want a ball player like Goode as he has decided that the 10/12 axis will take on that role. Outside of those two I am not sure there are any obvious options. Maybe Watson, but with injuries on the wing I guess he wants to use him out there.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 18:22
For me Watson needs to learn how to maintain his own balance first. The number of times he loses his footing is incredible. Daly is the great hope imo. Has the ability to play anywhere well.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
thekeg (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 18:24
Quote:
MartWhit
For me Watson needs to learn how to maintain his own balance first. The number of times he loses his footing is incredible. Daly is the great hope imo. Has the ability to play anywhere well.

Agree on both but again with May and Nowell our he perhaps thinks that he needs him on the wing. Be interesting to see who he picks v Samoa

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 19:12
I'm not sure that Daly is actually the best winger (or centre even), but I would have his name on the team sheet before most of the other backs.

 
Re: England vs Samoa - inventive or missed opportunity?
Flumpty (IP Logged)
09 November, 2017 19:13
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
MartWhit

Of course, none of the above applies to Mike Brown, who is simply irreplaceable.

I wonder if Mike Brown knows where the bodies are buried eye popping smiley

Whatever the criticism of Brown, EJ is clearly happy with him and picking him over other possibilities so he must be doing what EJ wants in some way.


.................... or he knows where the bodies are buried (Sm100)


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