rugbyunion
Latest News:

Opinions expressed on this message board are solely those of the individual author. No endorsement of such opinions by the editors, Sportnetwork or Sale Sharks can or should be inferred.


Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 10:56
Breaking news. Alan Dickens to take over as interim DoR.

I'm genuinely mystified to the breakdown in their fortunes, and the substantial change in Jims playing philosophy over his years there. He was a champion of running rugby at Sale, polishing gems like Hodgson, Robinson, Bond, Baxendell, Cueto & Hanley. He started in similar vein at Saints with a breathtaking counterattacking game beased around Foden & Ashton. Ever since the horizons seem to have got narrower and narrower.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Olyy (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 11:11
How long until he's named as DoR, with Dimes switching to somewhere higher up?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2017 11:14 by Olyy.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 11:19
is this what Jim would want to do next?

Is it the right move for Sale? I mean, if you believe Saints have been both narrowing their game and becomig less successful for a few years, how much does that sit on Jim's shoulders?

What specific coaching role could he fill at Sale? Is he an upgrade on Deacon as attack coach? Is he a defence or forwards coach?

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Olyy (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 11:26
No and no,
But I don't think he'll have many choices, sale love hiring an ex player as a coach, and I think dimes probably wants to move to a more hidden role after his latest ban.


I don't think it'd be the right move but it wouldn't surprise me at all

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 11:51
I dont think it would surprise me either Olyy.

I struggle to see his coaching expertise adding much to the current group, but his profile and personality could IMO be an upgrade on Dimes as DoR.

As an outsider to both, Mallinder comes across as a good man. Unfailingly polite, but I dont think anyone would think he was a pushover. I think he's shown he can handle various sorts of player and personality. He's certainly been able to recruit a few good ones, although we dont know how much of that was down to the hard cash on the table from Saints. He's undoubtedly calmer and less rash than Dimes.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Crutch (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 11:55
I'm sure that Sale still means a lot to Jim, would he want to essentially work for Dimes though?

It's certainly an odd one in terms of Saints playing style as I remember a fair few games at EP where they played some lovely stuff in the backs and I remember remarking to him in the stands that at least there was one good team out there to watch (must have been Kingsley Jones era I think).

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:18
Get him back - think him and Dimes would be a good combo - also be good if he bought his lad with him :-) - he's a nice player

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
clutch (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:20
Maybe Dickins isn't a great coach. The DOR is sometimes only as strong as the coaches under him. Jim certainly coached us into playing fabulous rugby at Sale and we were v unlucky not to win the league. However, taking sentiment out of the equation, I'm not sure he'd be the right man to take us forward. I suppose if you are being hypercritical Saints should have won more than the 1 title. A lot of that was down to bad luck and Leinster being outrageous though, we would have won the league I think if Hodgson hadn't have been injured.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:26
Jims issue, if he has one, was in winning the league 3 years ago, and seemingly having the money and infrastructure all in place to build a dynasty, but failing. A big fail relative to expectation levels.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
camshark (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:29
Not for me.
Jim had several good years at Saints, but they are stuck in a time warp, their attack is blunt, their defence woeful and their marque signings questionable in terms of team fit.
A top DoR would have got rid of the coaching deficiencies around him , and not bow to pressure on where and when to play Harry.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
clutch (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:30
Saints were going backwards then though. Reading the Saints board they imply that his loyalty to coaching the issue as much as anything else. Simon G19 appears to be on their board trolling, for some unknown reason.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Olyy (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:41
Quote:
Surbiton Shark
also be good if he bought his lad with him :-) - he's a nice player

Christ I hope not

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
HaleShark (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:48
I've always considered Jim 'one of us' and was delighted to see he did well for himself after he left.. I'd have him back without question, he has a wealth of experience as a D.o.R. And has proven to work well with Dimes. Add to that if he brought his son with him that would be a coup as well.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
thekeg (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 12:50
Quote:
Olyy
Quote:
Surbiton Shark
also be good if he bought his lad with him :-) - he's a nice player

Christ I hope not

You wouldn’t want harry Mallinder at same? He’s got areas to work on but a fantastic prospect

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Flumpty (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 13:00
Quote:
Olyy
Quote:
Surbiton Shark
also be good if he bought his lad with him :-) - he's a nice player

Christ I hope not

Really ? You don't rate him that much ?
I'd be a very happy chappy if Harry Mallinder appeared in a Sale shirt.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Which Tyler (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 13:15
I've heard that Tom Wood has reluctantly offered to take on the role of Head Coach himself.
"We'll cross that bridge if we come to it. If I was asked to do it for the benefit of the team, I'd consider it very carefully and probably front up."

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Olyy (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 13:36
Blimey, I thought it was a joke when I read Wood might step up.

And no, I don't rate mallinder jr. Part of that isn't his fault as he shouldn't be a first choice player atm. Hell probably be a fine player down the line but atm he's far too prone having an absolute nightmare game, and is only starting because of nepotism(/not recruiting in his position because of nepotism).
Rate our young centres and fullbacks far far higher.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
james46 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 13:58
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
Olyy
Quote:
Surbiton Shark
also be good if he bought his lad with him :-) - he's a nice player

Christ I hope not

Really ? You don't rate him that much ?
I'd be a very happy chappy if Harry Mallinder appeared in a Sale shirt.

I don't think he would be first choice FB or 12/13 and he's not great as a 10, so where would he play?

He was told by the England manager to play at FB if he want's to play for England, as he has zero chance at 10, 12, 13.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
clutch (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 14:16
He wouldn't need to be starting every game to be a good addition. I'd have him on the bench instread of Jennings whilst Van Rensberg is here. It depends on what the issue is with his defence. If it is resolvable then id start him ahead of James Jennings and Haley. He has the ability to become a complete player which our 3 don't quite have. As much as I really like them we have to understand that some of our young players may be replaced when we try and push top 4. By new signings or new jets talent.
Speaking of ability to be a complete player. All depends on if Addison is fit.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
jamestaylorreturns (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 14:22
us oldies all love sir jim and recall his sale player and coach days, plus his statesman like manner as DOR at Saints these past 10 yrs
BUT, as has already been mentioned, what would the fit and roles and relationship be with Diamond and existing sale coaching team?

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 14:23
I think Harry wont be part of any deal for Jim, if it happens.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Monty9 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 14:28
He recently signed either a 3 or 5 year contract I am sure

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 15:57
lets assume we're in the market for a DoR.

Would you try to get Jim, ahead of other mooted candidates such as Farrell, Sanderson, Ford, Lancaster, Wilson (Cardiff) or the perennial Jake White?

Given that Cardiff and Worcs are already looking, along with Saint, what are our chances of securing any of the above ahead of those clubs?

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
jamestaylorreturns (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 16:08
for Diamond, if he is Kingmaker, sir jim maybe best - as he is known well by Diamond (for good or bad); the others mentioned above by MartWhit , "could" bring along their own approach/style that doesnt suit Diamond (assuming he remains in key top role at club of course?)e

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Monty9 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 16:11
The career of a DOR is much longer than that of a players career so don't assume they look for the same things as players. Top class players may look to join teams who are already winning titles as they don't have as much time, where as a project to a DOR can be much more appealing. Especially if the elements are in place to achieve said goals, they become the hero and have a much longer time in the job.

So I believe that IF we were looking we could attract almost anyone we wanted into this position, as our current position maybe seen as less important than the elements needed to achieve long term success. Long term been the key to DORs, in my very limited knowledge anyway

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
james46 (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 16:31
Quote:
clutch
He wouldn't need to be starting every game to be a good addition. I'd have him on the bench instread of Jennings whilst Van Rensberg is here. It depends on what the issue is with his defence. If it is resolvable then id start him ahead of James Jennings and Haley. He has the ability to become a complete player which our 3 don't quite have. As much as I really like them we have to understand that some of our young players may be replaced when we try and push top 4. By new signings or new jets talent.
Speaking of ability to be a complete player. All depends on if Addison is fit.

He's nesh and is a Hollywood player, I don't see him fitting in with Diamond at all.

I wouldn't have him over James or Haley, both are better players.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
thekeg (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 16:54
Does anyone have any information on whether diamond and Mallinder are still on good terms. They obviously had a strong working relationship here, which presumably went back to their playing days as I think Mallinder brought diamond back to the club to work with him. They obviously went their own ways but then reuninted for a bit at saints. Don’t know what the current status is.

We’ve discussed the potential for bringing in a DOR and diamond stepping aside, I think most agreed that the main issue might be gelling with diamond as he’s known to be a slightly tricky character. Mallinder might get over that important issue if they are still on good terms....

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Crutch (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 17:29
I'd definitely bring him back but then I guess there'd be a strong correlation between those that feel that way and those that were around when he played and coached at Sale.

The season where we finished 2nd in the league on a shoestring budget whilst playing some of the best attacking rugby you're likely to see should be seen as one of the best achievements by an underdog team in modern English sporting history!

Let's not forget he also had an excellent record with the Saxons and really should have been given a shot at the top job except Martin Johnson was parachuted in with no coaching experience. They then reverted to Saxons with Lancaster but I've not seen anything to suggest he'd be a better choice then Jim.

P.s. With regard to Harry, I think some of the above comments show a Sale youth bias with the obvious flaws of someone like Hayley forgiven as he's one of ours, but highlighted in a player from another team. I'm pretty certain that if he'd come through the Sale set up then most on here would be very happy to have him in the squad and pushing for game time. From what I've seen I'd certainly rate him over Jennings. Seems to me that his game has suffered somewhat from being asked to play so many different positions rather than concentrating on centre.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
thekeg (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 17:34
Have to say I think there’s some unfortunate comments on here. Alleging nepotism, describing a player as nesh.....all a bit unpleasant

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 17:52
Back on point.

You’d think there was a level of trust and openness between them to ensure absolute clarity over the role of each before any appointment is made.

Jim could be one of the few people who could come on that dimes would trust 100%. Probably not the case with redpath and others.

And Jim is strong enough to insist on and get total control over rugby matters.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
clutch (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 18:07
Is it Hayley or Haley? I'm confused.
I want Sanderson to be honest. Mainly cause. I loved him as a player and even more for his honest and occasionally sweary pitch side interviews which I look forward to anytime Sarries play.
Mallinder is quick, strong, good hands, can kick and is only 20 ish. His only obvious weakness is his defence which I suspect can be improved.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
HaleShark (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 19:42
A change is as good as a rest and for both parties, J.M. & Saints, it could work well for both. I think as a coach/D.o.R. it comes a point when a fresh set of eyes on the project is needed, the influence you may have had isn't a strong and everyone in the club can get set in their ways. A New face will shake the bag up a bit for Saints, for J.M. if he were to come here or anywhere else for that matter would perhaps give him some renewed vigor. Maybe he'll take a few months out (i know I would!) to take stock and recharge the batteries. So I hope he comes to us as D.o.R. and Dimes to move upstairs, at least if he did come we'd not run the risk of being docked points for any post-match comments!!

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
clutch (IP Logged)
12 December, 2017 20:45
Am I a sentimental soul at heart. If he came back I'd be happy. I just hope it works. Second time round these things don't traditionally work.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
NorthernMaori (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 08:45
I'd prefer it if he didn't come back. I know that he knows SD well and so could cope with working with him but I feel that if he did return this could potentially displace the current coaching staff and we may end up losing some of the attacking gameplan that we are trying to implement. It may not be the most successful but at least we are scoring tries!

If we were looking for a new DOR I'd be tempted to go for Farrell. Give him the chance to guide a team but with the support of SD. The rugby league background could also potentially help him with our current coaching team, plus defence would improve.

Atm though we should stay as we are and reassess at the end of the season. Maybe give Deacon the responsibility of post-match interviews.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 09:50
Except Dimes wants to move on, and with the threat of a points deduction, probably needs to.

A new man ideally brings forward nous and some defensive acumen though. Not Jim's primary suit.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
13 December, 2017 09:52
I thought it strange that Jim went whilst West stayed. Saints' pack used to bully teams like us whereas now they're easily bullied by good sides.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
clutch (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 12:00
Not been the same since Diamond left. He helped recruit the monster pack!

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
stevene (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 14:49
step backwards for me. great guy and Sale stalwart.

personally would like Deacon to be given a chance or look to get Sanderson in.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 15:02
Sanderson clearly has the particular skillset we have greatest need for, without the leadership track record. Jim vice versa.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
emerging shark (IP Logged)
13 December, 2017 18:43
I am of the opinion that JM and SD still get on, I knew them both well during the old days. I think they went separate ways for their own reasons.
In those days I'm sure JM called the shots and SD fired them...
I wouldn't be surprised to see him back unless we have already struck a deal with someone else!

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
20 December, 2017 16:43
A couple of interesting quotes from a rugby paper article on the circumstances around Jim’s departure. They are primarily from Keith barwell i think, who was one of Jim’s strongest supporters. I paste them not to make any particular point regarding sale, although the points made are salient in almost any top level sporting environment.

Barwell says that the other non-negotiable element was results. “We sell a hell of a lot of season tickets, which we need to do for next season, and the fans are very concerned. It’s no different from any other pro-sport. The fans think you’re not listening, and after eight or nine games without a win you ignore them at your peril.

“Jim pointed out that if we had won the Worcester and Newcastle games we would have been in the top four in the Premiership – but we didn’t win them, and when that didn’t happen the board had to decide, because doing nothing was not an option. You can’t keep telling the fans, sponsors, and players, ‘mañana, mañana’.”


Newman believes there was also a serious communications problem, both internal and external, reflected in losing a talented backs coach like Alex King, as well as in worsening media relations.

“It became very insular. Jim started to come out with stereotypical responses (to media questions), and surrounded himself with yes-men. In top professional sport you need people who challenge you, which was what happened when Wayne Smith was at the club. However, over the last two or three years the door was always shut, so when Alex King challenged the system and wanted to change things, he found he was blocked.”

Barwell agrees that Press relations were an issue, and says he encouraged Mallinder to be more pro-active: “I said to him you have to talk to the Press to get a positive message about the club out there.”

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
20 December, 2017 16:58
iirc Dimes left for Sorries taking quite few players with him like Axe, Fully, Andy K etc. first and then Jim went to the RFU.


In truth Saints have been on the slide since Samu Manoa left - Picamoles provided some much-needed grunt last season.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
20 December, 2017 17:05
This article focused much more on closed minds and weak culture, along with an excessive loyalty to Dorian west.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
thekeg (IP Logged)
20 December, 2017 17:21
Seems very odd to me that the allegedly main “yes man” is still there

Whatever you think of him, one thing Ferguson did well at Man Utd was to regularly change his assistant to keep it fresh

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Olyy (IP Logged)
20 December, 2017 22:33
I've heard West to budgies at the end of the season.
Didn't want to sack the whole coaching staff at once so cut Jim loose and kept the rest on to run it till the summer.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
thekeg (IP Logged)
21 December, 2017 07:36
Quote:
Olyy
I've heard West to budgies at the end of the season.
Didn't want to sack the whole coaching staff at once so cut Jim loose and kept the rest on to run it till the summer.

I’d also heard that so guess it makes sense on those terms, but makes me wonder how much they could improve if he’s still in post

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
james46 (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 16:41
Quote:
thekeg
Have to say I think there’s some unfortunate comments on here. Alleging nepotism, describing a player as nesh.....all a bit unpleasant

Suggest you watch today's Saints V Quins game, Mallander Jr is a nightmare and nesh, he would rather throw the ball away rather then take the tackle.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
Monty9 (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 16:53
He has had an absolutely shocking half, but that does not make him a bad player or whatever point you are trying to make

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
clutch (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 16:55
No. At one point Saints missed 19 out of 41 tackles. Not sure Mallinder can be blamed for all of those.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
thekeg (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 17:01
Quote:
james46
Quote:
thekeg
Have to say I think there’s some unfortunate comments on here. Alleging nepotism, describing a player as nesh.....all a bit unpleasant

Suggest you watch today's Saints V Quins game, Mallander Jr is a nightmare and nesh, he would rather throw the ball away rather then take the tackle.

Thanks for that, I was watching us play, but I think you know my point was about the way you were referring to the player rather than whether you rate him

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 17:03
there's many frustrations to being a sale fan, but watching a spineless bunch capitulate isn't, thankfully, one of them.

Apparently the england captain and another also once touted for that role are playing.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 17:04
not sure whether having lost a DoR they liked, but being forced to continue to work every day with Dorian West and Alan Dickens has anything to do with it, but seems likely.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
clutch (IP Logged)
30 December, 2017 17:08
Maybe the don't won't to work with former Sale players!

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
TrailblazingScot (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 23:56
Leicester got rid of Richard Cockerill mid-season. They haven't done well subsequently and he is re-building his reputation with Edinburgh. I sincerely, hope that Jim Mallinder does the same at a new club. Since leaving Northampton, they haven't made any improvement and it suggests to me that their problems lie elsewhere.

I don't agree with getting rid of committed and passionate Head Coaches mid-season. It is a slippery slope to the nonsense that we get in football and the lynch mob mentality when teams have a bad run of results. Unless there is corruption or gross incompetence, then do this at the end of the season and give the guy a good send off, particularly if he has been in charge for an extended period of time.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
MartWhit (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 10:05
you're probably right that the problem lies below Jim. But Jim insisted on being loyal to those people reportedly, so what is a board of directors to do? They cant go over the head of their DoR.

 
Re: Big Jim sacked by Saints
stevene (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 13:13
Quote:
Monty9
He has had an absolutely shocking half, but that does not make him a bad player or whatever point you are trying to make

'whatever' points possibly being made:

1.His dads just been sacked and therefore possibly understandable he had a 'mare

2.He is a kid/ young man who has been moved all round the backline this season and nobody (possibly not even him) knows what his best position is and his performances are suffering.

3.He is a kid/ young man playing in a team devoid of confidence in a competitive league which he has limited exposure to in his career to date. Hence his performances havent matched expectation.


4.From what I have observed he doesn't commit to contact as much as he should at present and that leads to the types of errors he makes defensively or with all in hand (too lateral)


all of the above might be true and might not but certainly any/ all of the above are understandable and potentially visible in his performances. Re his dad I have total sympathy for any brain scrambling thats caused. However if you are selected for first XV rugby you need to perform and his performances for saints (pre and post his dad's sacking) haven't been great. to be honest from my perspective he needs a break from first team rugby much like Haley has. Haley's performance's since no longer being a shoe in at 15 have improved considerably.


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?