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Euro permutations
Crutch (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 21:56
So our group has the unusual position whereby all 4 teams can still qualify with 2 games remaining.

Current standing:

Cardiff - 13
Lyon - 9
Toulouse - 8
Sale - 7

Looking at the other groups it looks v.unlikely 2nd place will qualify from our group so we must beat Lyon and Toulouse beat Cardiff in Wales to keep in the running.

That of course means that if we're still in it for the final round then Toulouse will be too and I suppose more likely to field a stronger team.

I know it looks like issues if we get injuries at half back but I actually like the team selected given the circumstances. Big chance for Nott and will be great to see Josh B back on the pitch. Will outside RJVR could be devastating and looking forward to seeing Yarde again too.

 
Re: Euro permutations
Crutch (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 22:14
For the final round, in addition to Sale Winning we'd need Lyon to beat Cardiff in France which isn't that unlikely, but if they got a losing bonus or 2 tomorrow it could help by keeping them in the mix.

Here's hoping for a high scoring but close win!

 
Re: Euro permutations
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 23:29
Still in with a shout if we beat Toulouse scoring 4 tries and if two of these happen; brive beat Worcester(without getting carried away), London Irish beat stade francais(also without getting carried away), or if Newcastle beat Bordeaux not letting them earning a bonus.

This is just for finishing as one of the best 3 runners up, while there is still a chance of topping our pool, it's slim.

 
Re: Euro permutations
13 January, 2018 23:52
Toulouse to beat Blues tomorrow (no bonus point for either team). That makes it

Cardiff  P5 W3 D0 L2 13
Toulouse P5 W2 D1 L2 12
Sale     P5 W2 D1 L2 11
Lyon     P5 W2 D0 L3 10


We beat Toulouse next week, Lyon beat Cardiff. Basically, three teams could end up on 15 points and 3 wins. At this point, it's worth noting that Sale are the only team with a positive points difference.

Of course, if Cardiff win tomorrow, they top the league whatever.



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/101/101_0_1475852289.jpghttp://www.sportnetwork.net/mainadmin/img/1011155763860.jpg
Somewhere in the South Stand

 
Re: Euro permutations
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 14:14
in error



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14/01/2018 14:17 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Euro permutations
14 January, 2018 18:15
10-10 HT

 
Re: Euro permutations
Crutch (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 18:26
If it finishes that way we could still be on for the Major's 15 point 3 way tie...

 
Re: Euro permutations
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 18:59
I believe if teams are level it depends on the head-to-head games. If everything is level there then it does go to points for and against.

Anyway Cardiff are winning 15-13, so as it stands we don't have to worry. Cardiff possibly have just scored another try - gone to the TMO. No try.

 
Re: Euro permutations
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 19:08
Cardiff have scored another try - no they haven't. That's the third try of the evening wiped off on review.

 
Re: Euro permutations
ale shark (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 19:42
FT 18-13

We're the worst placed 2nd team so chances are as slim as an away win in Toulouse, mind you, they're out so don't know what sort of team they'll field against us. Looks to me like 2 of the 2nd place teams are uncatchable as well so we’re in a dogfight for the last one.

[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
Re: Euro permutations
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:02
Score 4 tries at toulouse and hope for the best I guess?

 
Re: Euro permutations
Crutch (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:07
I think we're out as the winner of Worcester v Brive will take the final 2nd place slot (unless Brive win without a bonus and we do get a try bonus). Not sure how they separate teams in different pools?

 
Re: Euro permutations
franknfurter (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:35
It's in our own hands.

Try bonus point win see's us progress to KO's

 
Re: Euro permutations
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:37
Quote:
Crutch
I think we're out as the winner of Worcester v Brive will take the final 2nd place slot (unless Brive win without a bonus and we do get a try bonus). Not sure how they separate teams in different pools?
By points difference, so wuss could end up with a worse record than us if they lose to brive and we win with 4 tries
My previous permutation are actually incorrect as I didn't allow for the fact that the Russian teams are hosting matches this weekend.
So we need to win with 4 tries and for 3 of the following to happen, dragons beat bordeaux and bordeaux get no points, Edinburgh beat stade France and London Irish don't get carried away vs krasny yar and brive beat Worcester and neither get try bonus point.
So basically 4 thing need to happen, yay fun!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14/01/2018 20:44 by Irish_Shark.

 
Re: Euro permutations
Monty9 (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:43
I really doubt we will be going all out for this

 
Re: Euro permutations
StalyShark (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:45
There really is no point to the whole cup really. Stade won last year and are still in the competition. If the winners got a Champions cup spot it might mean something.

 
Re: Euro permutations
Crutch (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:51
Not true. Sale have won this competition twice and some of those games have been the most enjoyable in 25 years of watching - the players certainly thought winning it was meaningful. If we did progress (unlikely now admittedly) I'd expect to see strong teams selected for the knockout games.

 
Re: Euro permutations
Yareet (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:54
Quote:
StalyShark
There really is no point to the whole cup really. Stade won last year and are still in the competition. If the winners got a Champions cup spot it might mean something.

Doesn’t it depend who wins the Champions Cup? I seem to remember that if Glaws had beaten Stade, they would’ve been in the Big Cup

 
Re: Euro permutations
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:57
Quote:
StalyShark
There really is no point to the whole cup really. Stade won last year and are still in the competition. If the winners got a Champions cup spot it might mean something.
The epcr have changed it back to how it was, when ecr ran it, so the winners will qualify for champions cup, and not to have a playoff versus 7th place in another league etc.

 
Re: Euro permutations
StalyShark (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 20:58
Quote:
Crutch
Not true. Sale have won this competition twice and some of those games have been the most enjoyable in 25 years of watching - the players certainly thought winning it was meaningful. If we did progress (unlikely now admittedly) I'd expect to see strong teams selected for the knockout games.

There may be point in the actual enjoying the game but in terms of benefits to the club there aren’t many. It isn’t a big money spinner, won’t attract the big names to play for the club and even winning it we all know it’s best the “second tier” clubs, not the best in Europe.

For us this year with our top six plan it’s merely a distraction, means of rotation or a way to try new things.

 
Re: Euro permutations
ale shark (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 00:16
Having a decent run in the Challenge Cup is surely far more enjoyable and beneficial for all than slogging your guts out to scrape 6th then not bother in the Champions Cup the following season because you’ve lost a few league games and your squad isn’t big enough! A process we’ve mastered this decade.

If we’re going for the Champions Cup next season then we also need to ensure we have a squad equipped to compete in it, whatever the league circumstances.

 
Re: Euro permutations
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 16:15
StalyShark, what is the point of professional rugby? Is not's it's overridingly most important function to entertain spectators/viewers?
Aren't Leagues, Cups and local derbys just a means of adding interest and depth to that enjoyment?
Surely if the games are "some of the most enjoyable in 25 years of watching rugby" you a missing out BIG TIME by belittling them and referring to them as a distraction!
Those that take part certainly don't treat them that way.

 
Re: Euro permutations
StalyShark (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 16:26
Quote:
H's Dad...
StalyShark, what is the point of professional rugby? Is not's it's overridingly most important function to entertain spectators/viewers?
Aren't Leagues, Cups and local derbys just a means of adding interest and depth to that enjoyment?
Surely if the games are "some of the most enjoyable in 25 years of watching rugby" you a missing out BIG TIME by belittling them and referring to them as a distraction!
Those that take part certainly don't treat them that way.

Yes, you are right in that we and others must entertain as a team. However, our main effort should be, this year, to get back in the top six and then build the team to have even more meaningful, and thus entertaining games in the Champions’ Cup.

 
Re: Euro permutations
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 17:03
Wahts with the "we"?
With respect neither you nor I are a member of the team: you are merely indicating what should perhaps be the coach's attitude when making decisions about selection: we aren't the coaches, we are supporters! We should support any team he puts out. All players are desperate for as much game time as possible!
No player will stay at a club if he isn't able to progress in terms of game time and exposure to more competitive games. Our 46 strong squad should easily be able to handle the two less-lauded competitions we participate in. Each gives their all in every game (OR AT LEAST THEY SHOULD!) That applies to supporters as well IMHO!
Are you seriously suggesting a very entertaining game in the Champions Cup is somehow better than one in The Challenge Cup?
That's Rhino Pooh! The Parker Pen victory was even better in many respects than the Prem win. Who can forget the contribution of the party from the Brook and The sining at the end....

IMHO As spectators/supporters we should try to add to the entertainment value of every single game we watch not reserve our best efforts for the Premiership or Champions Cup.
Otherwise what message are we giving to our young developing stars of the future?

 
Re: Euro permutations
StalyShark (IP Logged)
15 January, 2018 20:57
Of course the supporters, “we”, would support any team the coaches put out, that is beyond doubt. My point was the we, the club,the supporters, the team should not be looking to play in this Cup, all of us should be gunning towards Champions Cup rugby. Thus, if that is the aim of Sake Sharks and all the other teams the Challenge Cup is the “consolation cup”. Sad as that may seem I think it’s what it should be to us; a chance to blood new players/structures etc. Therefore, leaving our main effort to be the Premiership in order for a Sale to get top six and thus next sesson’s Champions Cup. Of course then we must recruit/promote well enough for us to compete on two or more fronts.

 
Re: Euro permutations
hilly07 (IP Logged)
16 January, 2018 10:37
I was looking forward to a good cup run in Europe this year given our obvious limitations in competing with the big boys but as soon as the draw came out I knew it would be unlikely.

Really don't know how our group came about but it was tough. OK, it's been better to watch than smashing a random Italian or Russan clubs, but I think a few weekends off at the end of the season between important games is viewed as more important.

 
Re: Euro permutations
emerging shark (IP Logged)
16 January, 2018 11:46
HsD, so you have never referred to your club(s) as we? come on....

 
Re: Euro permutations
Monty9 (IP Logged)
16 January, 2018 11:50
Quote:
emerging shark
HsD, so you have never referred to your club(s) as we? come on....

Of course he has, everyone does.

 
Re: Euro permutations
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
16 January, 2018 12:56
Yes, certainly ES, but I've never suggested lesser competitions are a "distraction" and that we should treat them as such. That's both 'we' the club or 'we' the supporters.
They are, imho, the one and only route for our home grown players to come through that final barrier that enables them to compete well in top level competitions and as such they are absolutely crucial and incredibly important.
As are controlled exposures from the bench in the Premiership or a Cup of course.

You'll also seldom find me complaining about "fielding a weakened team", "poor selections" or "weak benches" either. All of which either insult young aspirational players who give 100% or belittles what coaches see in training, injuries etc.
I'm well aware players sometimes get to hear some of the OTT criticism expressed on this board: imho in many cases it's counterproductive, which is why most don't read it directly.

i.e. I try to make myself support longer-term views rather than short-term expediency/expressions of frustration....but I also sometimes fail in that regard....as do we all!

 
Re: Euro permutations
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
16 January, 2018 13:19
Unfortunately the longer term view is that cup wins are all very well but it is maintaining top flight league status that really matters.

Those young players might be aspirational but, in the end, they have to perform to a level. The final belittlement, and the only one that really matters, is being told by the coaching staff they they are not good enough. That is far more significant and far reaching than the odd adverse comment on here.

 
Re: Euro permutations
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
16 January, 2018 13:51
The longer term view is that you need to have far more than 25-28 or so players who can step up and perform at the the top level as a frictionless cog in the team.
Good competitive team performances in all competitions are a pre-requisite for that, as is controlled incremental exposure of younger players. That's why the cups are important for the league. They help develop that improtant winning mentality amongst all players.
You always need a mixture of youth and experience in any team for it to consistently perform.

IF you pick your very strongest 23 on paper every week, (or even perhaps your strongest 23 from 28 or so) your injury rate will increase and your performances will fall off when injury crises bite....match sharpness is a tangible factor.

The last paragraph is certainly true but how many of the posters on here would use the same phrasing they use on here direct to someone's face? e.g. Nice to meet you "idiot with the mike"! "Hi AJ/Sam, you're just not good enough to play 10"! etc etc......
Some undoubtedly, are as blunt as Dimes can be, but is that the best way forward? Is it even sticking to board guidelines?
Sometimes even Dimes get's it wrong, posters on here far, far more regularly: a win/loss often colouring their view!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 16/01/2018 14:13 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Euro permutations
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 10:29
No mention of the chances of qualifying (slim though they are) from the offy in any of their articles, shame.

 
Re: Euro permutations
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
20 January, 2018 16:42
Looks like dragons have done enough to stop bordeaux from getting a bonus point. Whilst we still need to beat toulouse with a try bonus point and by 9 points and for edinburgh to beat stade, we still have a chance to make quarter finals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/01/2018 17:07 by Irish_Shark.


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