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Wasps break the salary cap
23Shark (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 12:54
[www.planetrugby.com]

40k overspend which means they pay half of that as a fine

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
09 February, 2018 13:28
Well, sugar my plums, that's a shock.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Flumpty (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 13:29
the article reads as though they were working right up to the salary cap limit, but caught out on a technicality.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 14:15
Quote:
Premiership Rugby
“This is not a breach of the Regulations and there is no suggestion it was deliberate,” said a Premiership Rugby spokesman. “A number of adjustments were identified by the independent auditors which resulted in the overrun. These have now been addressed.”

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Olyy (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 14:52
Quote:
Flumpty
the article reads as though they were working right up to the salary cap limit, but caught out on a technicality.
Reading the wasps forum they seem to think it's because of Haskell getting injured and him missing an England squad and therefore them not getting the EPS player cap deduction

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 15:17
Regardless, its an expensive business they are running, and without the trophies or even crowds to justify it yet. Not sustainable IMO.

I'd argue others have more complete squads, with more depth, put together much less expensively. Even for those based in London.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 16:34
Quote:
MartWhit
Regardless, its an expensive business they are running, and without the trophies or even crowds to justify it yet. Not sustainable IMO.
I'd argue others have more complete squads, with more depth, put together much less expensively. Even for those based in London.

In your opinion of course as you point out ..... may I ask what experience you have running the business side of a Premiership club, multi use stadium, exhibition hall, hotel or casino ? Or what visibility you have into the running costs of other clubs that makes them more than £40k less expensive? .... just asking as it’s quite a significant statement or argument to make if you have none of the above winking smiley

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
LankyShark (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 17:04
Just wondering.

Would the Wasps auditors who discovered this be the same Wasps auditors as the ones who found the £1.1M cash contribution incorrectly showing as income/ profit reported a couple of months ago? The correction of this put them in breach of the agreement with bondholders.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2018 17:21 by LankyShark.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 17:32
Quote:
LankyShark
Just wondering.
Would the Wasps auditors who discovered this be the same Wasps auditors as the ones who found the £1.1M cash contribution incorrectly showing as income/ profit reported a couple of months ago? The correction of this put them in breach of the agreement with bondholders.


I doubt it because its not Wasps auditors that deal with the salary cap, if you read the press release from premiership rugby they are independent auditors.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 17:44
Quote:
Olyy
Quote:
Flumpty
the article reads as though they were working right up to the salary cap limit, but caught out on a technicality.
Reading the wasps forum they seem to think it's because of Haskell getting injured and him missing an England squad and therefore them not getting the EPS player cap deduction

Counting eggs before they've hatched? Madness!

To think we were well under the cap with no deductions!

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 17:58
Quote:
MartWhit
Regardless, its an expensive business they are running, and without the trophies or even crowds to justify it yet. Not sustainable IMO.
I'd argue others have more complete squads, with more depth, put together much less expensively. Even for those based in London.

I believe the fact that Wasps finished top and 2nd overall last year and are higher in the table than these other clubs you dont reference undermines your entire statement.

Maybe Sale fit this bill? - but to be fair Sale aren't challenging for anything yet.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Crutch (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 18:24
With all the random allowances you can see how a club paying at or around the cap could easily fall foul unintentionally. Perhaps things like international allowance could be included a year in arrears so that the clubs have more certainty?

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 18:41
point is, wasps has demonstrably the highest salary bill in the league, didnt win the trophy, arent the favourites to win it this year, have had issues with their accounting and are being forced to renegotiate with their bondholders over their extensive and not yet stabilised debt levels.

Which bit of that is sustainable?

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 19:03
Quote:
MartWhit
point is, wasps has demonstrably the highest salary bill in the league, didnt win the trophy, arent the favourites to win it this year, have had issues with their accounting and are being forced to renegotiate with their bondholders over their extensive and not yet stabilised debt levels.
Which bit of that is sustainable?

You tell me perhaps expand your opinions .... you seem to know a lot about running a Premiership rugby club and multi use stadium ? ..... maybe explain your opinions if indeed they are based on any knowledge or experience and then we can discuss or are you just throwing headlines in the air that you know nothing about. The reality is the business ticks over pretty well even without Rugby !

For clarity they topped the league which ain’t too bad, they pull in gates that most other clubs can only dream of and not sure what being favourites has to do with anything ?? Were Exeter favourites this time last season ?? ...... The reality is they are a team very capable of winning the title, whether they do remains to be seen but not many teams can realistically say that !

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 20:19
A quick google of 'Wasps financial problems' brings the following headlines:

Wasps overstates profits amid accounting 'irregularities' - The Telegraph

it had failed to keep its ebitda to finance costs ratio at at least 1.5:1.0 for the year, causing it to breach covenants agreed with bondholders. It has also paid out interest payments to those bondholders since, meaning its level of debt was now too high.

Wasps not generating enough cash to repay £35m Ricoh Arena ...

Wasps have confirmed the club might have to refinance its £35m bond scheme after financial experts cast doubt on the club's ability to repay its debt. ... in fact they have negative annual cash flows so the situation is actually getting worse annually.


Wasps will not cut budget despite bond scheme concerns | Daily Mail ...

While there is no suggestion Wasps - whose owner Derek Richardson is widely acknowledged to have saved the club from liquidation – are in serious financial difficulty, director of rugby Dai Young says he has been given assurances he can carrying on spending up to the salary cap over the next three ...

Rude health? I dont need to be a CEO to see that. Which of these facts in the public domain are incorrect business guru?

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 20:32
Quote:
MartWhit
A quick google of 'Wasps financial problems' brings the following headlines:
Wasps overstates profits amid accounting 'irregularities' - The Telegraph

it had failed to keep its ebitda to finance costs ratio at at least 1.5:1.0 for the year, causing it to breach covenants agreed with bondholders. It has also paid out interest payments to those bondholders since, meaning its level of debt was now too high.

Wasps not generating enough cash to repay £35m Ricoh Arena ...

Wasps have confirmed the club might have to refinance its £35m bond scheme after financial experts cast doubt on the club's ability to repay its debt. ... in fact they have negative annual cash flows so the situation is actually getting worse annually.


Wasps will not cut budget despite bond scheme concerns | Daily Mail ...

While there is no suggestion Wasps - whose owner Derek Richardson is widely acknowledged to have saved the club from liquidation – are in serious financial difficulty, director of rugby Dai Young says he has been given assurances he can carrying on spending up to the salary cap over the next three ...

Rude health? I dont need to be a CEO to see that. Which of these facts in the public domain are incorrect business guru?

I’m certainly not in any way a business guru but your initial post seemed to indicate you were but clearly just a ‘googler’ who takes headlines without reading underlying context and now copies and pastes them and with respect most likely doesn’t understand most of what you’ve pasted smiling smiley or maybe you do and perhaps you can explain the first paragraph from the telegraph ?

Daily mail even states “whilst there is no suggestion Wasps are in serious financial difficulty” .... so I guess relying on your basic google research that says it all winking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2018 20:33 by ukms.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
MartWhit (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 21:26
Well, if you're a current bondholder, they are worth less than face value should you wish to sell them. So the market believes there is uncertainty about the ability to repay.

The recent covenant breach (incidentally, the second one) once again put wasps future in the hands of bondholders, who were only willing to relax the convenants in exchange for a tidy additional 0.2% interest payment and additional funds being put into the business by the main shareholder. Without his continued funding they aren't able to stand on their own two feet.

They are in the midst of a high cost, high risk strategy to propel themselves to the top of the game. Should they fail to crack tough nuts like Saracens and Exeter and start to win trophies, I think they will have to cut back playing expenditure. Even Dai Young recognises that as a risk, which is why he's sought assurances on his budget for the coming years.

I don't wish them to come acropper. But I do know that they are sailing close to the wind to get where they want to be. If you have a brand like the New York Yankees, or Man Utd you can spend and raise money fairly readily. Wasps are not in that league and sport is littered with the remains of teams that tried to match them.

Please dont insult my arguments unless you're willing to present something substantial against it.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 22:53
Quote:
MartWhit
Well, if you're a current bondholder, they are worth less than face value should you wish to sell them. So the market believes there is uncertainty about the ability to repay.

Does the value translate to an inability to repay ? .... not necessarily, simply a wobble over the covenant breach ... which is not surprising, it’s risen steadily since.

Quote:
MartWhit
The recent covenant breach (incidentally, the second one) once again put wasps future in the hands of bondholders, who were only willing to relax the convenants in exchange for a tidy additional 0.2% interest payment and additional funds being put into the business by the main shareholder.

Can you point me to where the first breach was reported ? Other than an ‘exclusive’ in the Coventry Observer by a bitter journo ?

Quote:
MartWhit
Without his continued funding they aren't able to stand on their own two feet.
....
with respect not true .... maybe do some homework on the numbers and the bigger picture.

Quote:
MartWhit
They are in the midst of a high cost, high risk strategy to propel themselves to the top of the game.

Hardly trying to propel themselves .... Wasps have been on a steady climb since near bankruptcy, personally I think their rise has been slow but sure, rather than being ‘propelled’

Quote:
MartWhit
should they fail to crack tough nuts like Saracens and Exeter and start to win trophies, I think they will have to cut back playing expenditure. Even Dai Young recognises that as a risk, which is why he's sought assurances on his budget for the coming years.

You may we’ll be right about cutting back at some time in the future, who knows. As for Exeter and Saracens, no team is or remains unbeatable and it’s not just about two teams you need to worry about to finish top of the league, I think they gave a pretty good account of themselves last season, you might say topping the league and finishing 7 points above Sarries was ‘cracking them’ ? I agree though it would be nice to win trophies but I don’t agree business success will depend on it, certainly not in the short term.


Quote:
MartWhit
Please dont insult my arguments unless you're willing to present something substantial against it.

Not my intention for you to feel insulted, just looking for a bit more than some google searches as an argument smiling smiley

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
franknfurter (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 23:36
Creative accounting?

Punishment 'fine' is no deterrant.
IMHO punishment should be 4 point deduction for each offence.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Crutch (IP Logged)
09 February, 2018 23:59
I think that's excessive in the extreme and I'm all in favour of the cap.

A club wouldn't deliberately breach by such a small amount, it's hardly going to make a difference to their squad.

The way the numbers are calculated there's a lot of room for uncertainty in the final figures so if clubs could be docked points for a minor breach then they'd all need to come in well under the cap just in case, which surely negates the point of the cap.

I think we need to be very careful about commenting on how other clubs are run, let's face it, Sale hasn't stood on its own 2 feet since Brian Kennedy came in, and SO clearly wants to move us towards being a team that pays closer to the cap once possible.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Raggs (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 07:54
The uncertainty factor is exactly why the overrun tax was introduced. A small error sees a small fine, over £50k is a pound for every pound, and over £200k is £3 for every £1 over, so it gets very expensive indeed. Over 5% of the base salary cap then leads into further punishments (though I didn't read what that entails). Wasps were about 0.6% over the base cap I believe, due to internationals missing expected games (and therefore Wasps miss out on international player allowance), and an unexpected 20% VAT bill from a player agency that works with a lot of our players, that moved from overseas to UK based.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
yukon (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 08:05
Quote:
ukms
Quote:
LankyShark
Just wondering.
Would the Wasps auditors who discovered this be the same Wasps auditors as the ones who found the £1.1M cash contribution incorrectly showing as income/ profit reported a couple of months ago? The correction of this put them in breach of the agreement with bondholders.


I doubt it because its not Wasps auditors that deal with the salary cap, if you read the press release from premiership rugby they are independent auditors.

Are you justifying Wasps’ flouting of the rules on every AP teams forum?

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 09:10
Quote:
yukon
Quote:
ukms
Quote:
LankyShark
Just wondering.
Would the Wasps auditors who discovered this be the same Wasps auditors as the ones who found the £1.1M cash contribution incorrectly showing as income/ profit reported a couple of months ago? The correction of this put them in breach of the agreement with bondholders.


I doubt it because its not Wasps auditors that deal with the salary cap, if you read the press release from premiership rugby they are independent auditors.

Are you justifying Wasps’ flouting of the rules on every AP teams forum?

Not at all ..... I’m not justifying anything ... simply discussing the team I support when some seem more concerned with Wasps than their own club. Anything wrong with that ? Plenty pop across to the Wasps board when Sale are being discussed and long may that continue !

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 09:16
Hardly flouting. They should have predicted the VAT bill when the agency moved to the UK (assuming they were aware of the move), but the international player allowance can obviously be a movable feast.

Personally if I were Wasps I'd be spitting feathers at being fined for such an indiscretion, when you consider how hard they lobbied to have previous, much larger, more deliberate, indiscretions by others revealed. Only to see those others walk away Scot free. Maybe Wasps should threaten legal action?



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 09:24
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Hardly flouting. They should have predicted the VAT bill when the agency moved to the UK (assuming they were aware of the move), but the international player allowance can obviously be a movable feast.
Personally if I were Wasps I'd be spitting feathers at being fined for such an indiscretion, when you consider how hard they lobbied to have previous, much larger, more deliberate, indiscretions by others revealed. Only to see those others walk away Scot free. Maybe Wasps should threaten legal action?

I think they are probably happy to be transparent and abide by the rules then cough up if required ....... they have enough legal distractions rumbling along associated with the Ricoh smiling smiley

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 09:36
It's not a hanging offence, no matter how much some want to make it one.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Raggs (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 11:38
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Hardly flouting. They should have predicted the VAT bill when the agency moved to the UK (assuming they were aware of the move), but the international player allowance can obviously be a movable feast.
Personally if I were Wasps I'd be spitting feathers at being fined for such an indiscretion, when you consider how hard they lobbied to have previous, much larger, more deliberate, indiscretions by others revealed. Only to see those others walk away Scot free. Maybe Wasps should threaten legal action?

If the move came during the season there may have been no way to predict it.

I'm glad we've just agreed to it for exactly the reasons you've put forward. We fought for clarity and the affair to be fully investigated, to now try and hide from this would have lessened that previous attempt.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
10 February, 2018 23:01
Martwit...im not sure Wasps sustainability is any weaker than Sales..or many other prem teams for that matter.

The benefactor walks and your done. At least Wasps have other business streams so have a slim chance...if Orange walked what chance would Sale have, or Wuss, LI, Glaws etc etc..

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
11 February, 2018 19:10
Are they business streams owned by Wasps? Or parallel streams owned by the same people that own Wasps. That is a genuine question by the way. When the Ricoh news was announced I was worried hat Wasps were being used as a pawn in a move to own the ground. If Wasps own the ground then that fear obviously largely negated.

Whilst I do think that the current Wasps strategy does look like a high risk, you are of course right that very few clubs could survive without their money man.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 06:32
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Are they business streams owned by Wasps? Or parallel streams owned by the same people that own Wasps. That is a genuine question by the way. When the Ricoh news was announced I was worried hat Wasps were being used as a pawn in a move to own the ground. If Wasps own the ground then that fear obviously largely negated.
Whilst I do think that the current Wasps strategy does look like a high risk, you are of course right that very few clubs could survive without their money man.

Over simplifying it all goes into the same pot on the same accounts. Although I don't think anyone is naïve enough to think that it couldn't change but I'd like to think that there is no reason to (at the moment).

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
12 February, 2018 22:43
The stadium etc is all owned by Wasps as far as I can remember: that's the only way the stadium could be used as security for the bondholders I reckon.
The other business streams all help fund Wasps PLC as shown in their accounts. In fact I got the impression it was some very poor decision-making in choosing which concerts/events to run which lead to considerable liability (rather than income) being transferred to Wasps last year. The stadiums cost base was far too high for those events. Measures have apparently been put in place to correct this, but it will take time to bear fruit.

IMHO Wasps are operating on a far higher risk/reward basis which must be inherently more likely to succeed financially than our own. But if it does go wrong it will be spectacular!
However having 3/4 other income streams is a HUGE plus and mitigates against that!
Whereas our business plan will take a long time to come to fruition even if we transfer to a better located stadium. Currently we are really struggling to even retain the income from rugby matchday activities...let alone develope other income streams. We 'sold the household silver' when we moved and became even more of a franchise.
40,000 total Prem. attendees for Sharks this season compared to 125,000 for Wasps also speaks volumes about our relative success....even IF some of those at Wasps are subsidised.
We are even 12,000 behind Falcons, the traditionally most poorly supported club.
What would we do for 3x as many attendees?



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2018 23:04 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
sarricen (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 08:10
The irony of all of this is hilarious. I'm not talking about the salary cap breach, more the wasps fans reaction to it. This is too funny, I'll say no more

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 10:40
H's D, pretty accurate summing up I would think. sarricen, one wonders why you feel it necessary to comment on Wasps supporters on the Sale forum, but as you are not going to say more we shall never find out.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
sarricen (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 12:48
Quote:
DaveAitch
H's D, pretty accurate summing up I would think. sarricen, one wonders why you feel it necessary to comment on Wasps supporters on the Sale forum, but as you are not going to say more we shall never find out.

I'll reply to this! I only came over here to see your views on our game this week and found the wasp infestation that has infected so many other boards is also up here.

My sincerest apologies for commenting. I will refrain in future. Apart from dying and paying taxes nothing in life is necessary so with that attitude I'll buzz off

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 13:17
Sarricen, no, don't refrain from posting. I just wish you had said what you meant rather than leaving us a cryptic remark and then saying you'll say no more. I thought my comment might elicit a reply, but I hadn't allowed for you being so thin skinned. Did you expect no one to comment on your post, or did you just expect everyone to just agree with you (whatever twe would be agreeing with, as we don't all necessarily know what Wasps supporters had said in the past)?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/02/2018 13:19 by DaveAitch.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
sarricen (IP Logged)
13 February, 2018 17:41
TBH it was more aimed at wasps supporters and I didn't want to say it directly as it would provoke a reaction from them given how thin skinned they have been here and elsewhere over the last few days.

I'm sure they all know what I'm inferring but given it's a Sale forum I'll post as I realise I was a bit of a t**t with my original post, so apologies. I personally am very bored of being laid into by swarms of wasps which is why I was cryptic. I suppose I should just ignore them but I just love reaching for the honey. A weakness of mine but hey ho.

Back in the salary cap scandal of a few years ago, it was wasps fans who had the largest outpouring of 'anger' shall we say, and one of the biggest criticisms leveled against sarries fans was that we went to every board to vehemently defend ourselves. Now that the shoe is on the other foot it is quite funny to see wasps fans react in exactly the same way as sarries fans did a few years back (regardless of the relative merits of charges levelled against our respective clubs).

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
ukms (IP Logged)
14 February, 2018 14:09
Quote:
sarricen

Back in the salary cap scandal of a few years ago, it was wasps fans who had the largest outpouring of 'anger' shall we say, and one of the biggest criticisms leveled against sarries fans was that we went to every board to vehemently defend ourselves. Now that the shoe is on the other foot it is quite funny to see wasps fans react in exactly the same way as sarries fans did a few years back (regardless of the relative merits of charges levelled against our respective clubs).

I think you’ll find many supporters of most clubs had a view on the Sarries situation, which was probably inflamed by the continual denials and secrecy which dragged on for months and to this day it’s shrouded in mystery. I don’t think Wasps supporters have reacted in the same way. There is no mystery, no denials, no secrecy and complete transparency, a world away from the Sarries situation.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 18:38
Well said ukms.
Any sense of morality existing in professional rugby died with that Sarries scandal. The way all our clubs agreed to lift the carpet and bury the dirt was apalling.
At least Wasps and a couple of clubs initially wanted to let the truth be told. Shamefully the rest (including Sale) voted to bury the subject and go for non-disclosure.
Wasp's handling of this episode, a sloppy miscalculation on their part, should be welcomed as at least very honest.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 19:24
I certainly don't know the truth of what happened at Saracens a few years back. It shouldn't have been swept under the carpet, whatever the findings were. However, I did feel that because many people believed (and wanted to believe) that they had transgressed those people had Saracens hanged, drawn and quartered without ever seeing any evidence. That said, it does seem that Wasps have handled the situation better.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 22:07
The truth is both Saracens and Bath were both reported as breaking the salary cap in 2013/4 by more than £250K after a full RFU investigation but escaped the agreed sanctions at the time. and also here with Tigers also being implicated
If memory serves Sarries and Bath had just contested the Premiership final and Tigers were losing semi-finalists when it was all brushed under the carpet the following June!
Who said cheating never pays?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 16/02/2018 22:20 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 22:20
From a Neil Fissler report!!

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 22:25
Who to this day remains unsued for libel!
But I've added a well-known barristers report who spoke to more than four sources from different clubs present at the relevant meeting..
He also remains unsued!
Don't try and deny history Highbury Saracen!

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 22:40
H's D, you need to point to something from the RFU or the PRL. What you have is two reports from journalists. How many newspapers had that man from the Bristol down as a murderer, but he turned out to be totally innocent. I am not saying that the clubs who were implicated weren't guilty, nor am I saying they were, but many had them as guilty so, of course, a couple of newspaper reports which support what is 'known' will be taken as proof.

edit: I started to write this before I saw you last post, H's D. Where have you added the barrista's report?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/02/2018 22:44 by DaveAitch.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 22:55
Reading the Fissler report, what would Saracens sue him for? Saracens and Bath have a mention that they had been under investigation. That was true, so they would sue him over that. Nothing else really mentions any club by name, so on what basis would they sue?

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 23:00
I don't need to do anything Daveaitch: the RFU and PRL were both reported as being party to the cover up. It's pointless referencing them.
None of those implicated have taken libel action over the clear libels reported as fact by that well-known Barrista, Mr Brian Moore aka the pit bull. It's the second article referenced.
I'd happily rely on that in court as 'proof beyond reasonable doubt'. His article in particular was hugely damaging to their reputations and I simply do not believe he would have written it without it being backed by his four independent sources. Good use of the word "traduction" to denote the accusations he was elucidating.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 23:06
Brian Moore was a solicitor, I don't think he ever barrister. Big difference, as you might say.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
bonnery (IP Logged)
16 February, 2018 23:15
The state of some of the posts on here!

What seems to be reported is Wasps went over because an agent moved back to UK from abroad so their services incurred VAT (agents fees are included in the cap). It's been called an over-run not a "breach" because there's nothing deliberate or suspicious. They've paid a fairly hefty tax on the amount they've gone over.

As for historical cases. Do WE really want to take a high-ground here. How many people would be confident we assembled a box office squad packed with internationals when we won the title, within the cap?

It was the wild west, now it's being policed much better. There's nothing to see hear. But continue bleating away if you must.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
17 February, 2018 17:25
That's a very poor post in respect of the last paragraph Bonnery.

We got caught breaching the salary cap together with about 5 clubs around a decade ago. Something I indicated on here at the time. It directly lead to the resignation/sacking of our financial director. He failed to allow for media rights payments. That's hardly 'bleating' is it?
There is absolutely no suggestion of 'holier than thou' in my comments and I would fundamentally disagree that it's being policed much better now. In reality it's not being policed at all. There are no significant consequences for breaching it.
The closed shop of the PRL, Premiership clubs and RFU prefer to pretend there is no dirty washing. Deals are done in private....
That is the reality.
There's plenty of dirt to dredge up but all those involved prefer to keep the carpet firmly in place over it. I think Mr Moore is spot-on in his comments.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
bonnery (IP Logged)
17 February, 2018 17:39
Wasps have done nothing wrong.

The authorities recognise how complicated the system is; how many variables there are that can change (like, in this case, an agents fees suddenly incurring VAT). That's why there are clearly defined "over-run taxes" for small amounts where it couldn't have been avoided.

It's bleating not to acknowledge the difference between malpractice and allowable over-run that is withing regulations and incurs significant cost. There's nothing to see here.

 
Re: Wasps break the salary cap
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
18 February, 2018 17:03
Wasps made a small error in calculation, which resulted in a marginal failure to stick to the salary cap. This resulted in a set fine. Manifestly they are trying to stick to the cap. Add 'significant' to your first statement and you will cease to be seen wearing tinted specs.
It's a bit like returning your annual tax declaration late: there's a small set penalty even if it's accurate but you have still been a tad naughty.
Or a bit like sailing too close to the wind and becoming a victim of an accidental gybe.
You didn't mean to do it. but it still occured.
The secret is to either have a 'gybe preventer' in place wrt some payments, or you simply don't sail that close to the wind.


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