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Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 18:33
Dear Eddie
I hope you have the good grace to congratulate Scotland, they out fought and out thought England .
The game was won at the breakdown , when will you realise that you canít play with a 6 and a half and a lock at 6.
You need a Curry/Underhill to start, your forwards are too ponderous, you brought in the Georgians ( as you did with the Welsh) for scrummaging practice, what good did that do ? The team that wins the 2019World Cup wonít do it through the scrum.
The backs canít pass, itís too much one out rugby, the difference with NZ back play is huge.
A bad day at the office , I donít think so , needs a major rethink on the way we want to play .

 
Re: Dear Eddie
24 February, 2018 18:39
Need to get the best XV starting ie George, Te'o, Underhill. Lawes isn't a 6, Robshaw isn't a 7.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 18:44
Is that his second loss in 26?

Get a grip.....

As Dimes says about Sale - we were out enthused....

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Crutch (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 18:50
Partly selection (I said Robshaw shouldn't play 7) and partly tactics not committing enough players to the breakdown.

Having said that, I think England can feel a bit hard done by from some of the reffing of the breakdown although not saying they should have won.

To my eye a number of the turnovers won by the Scots came from players driving England out of the ruck by coming in at the side or jackaling whilst off feet or certainly not supporting their body weight.

Hoping this is a wake up call and some of the obvious deficiencies in the England tactics/selection are addressed without people just saying look at EJ's record.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Flumpty (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 18:53
Scotland won fair and square on the back of playing the ref to their advantage - they worked out what he would/woudn't give at the breakdown and beat England at the breakdown.
Particularly, at the rucks, the Boys In Blue were excellent.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 19:03
Quote:
Surbiton Shark
Is that his second loss in 26?
Get a grip.....

As Dimes says about Sale - we were out enthused....


Open your eyes surbiton, this isnít just about today , Englandís play is regressing, this isnít about 24 from 26 , itís about style , direction and selection.
Do you really think we can win a World Cup in Japan with a back row of Lawes, Robshaw and Hughes. We were totally outplayed at the breakdown . Do you really think our midfield combo works ? Do you really think our starting front row are the best available ?
Do you think our attack is clicking ? Are you confident with our dog leg defence ? Jones started well as a coach but his thinking and selection has stalled.
Do you feel confident that we will win against Ireland?. If you are unsure of any of these questions then I suggest itís difficult to justify our status as the second best team in the world, after all we have just suffered our biggest defeat to scotland in the 6 nations !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/02/2018 14:51 by camshark.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Olyy (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 19:04
Breakdown has been an issue for a while, We just don't prioritise it.
No support on runners, disinterested at clearing out or securing, no competition on the floor.

I tipped us to lose this game pre-tournament.
England have been winning ugly for a while now, and while that's good for the stats/win column (as mentioned above we've won 24/26!) we're not learning from our mistakes and just ploughing on with the same plan.
Our luck was going to run out eventually and I hope this makes EJ reconsider his breakdown strategy.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
24 February, 2018 19:18
We won't win in Ireland for sure.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
jamestaylorreturns (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 19:28
2019 world cup winners....now unlikely

as some media pundits seem to have already said, we have stalled in development (some may say regressed)over past year

 
Re: Dear Eddie
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
24 February, 2018 20:22
Lack of attacking structure, and lack of any kind of smarts at the breakdown cost England. Very reminiscent of Sale a few seasons back, relying on individual talent in attack. We ran one line all game and Farrell scored, the rest was predictable. I certainly felt Scotland got the rub of the green at the breakdown, but was incidental, they were clearly the better side.

For the record EJ did congratulate Scotland, didn't hide behind any criticism of the officials.

Underhill certainly made difference, but then his stupidity may have cost England a chance of clawing he game back.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Dear Eddie
philthefluter (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 08:35
I agree with most of the above and that the game was lost at the breakdown, but no-one has mentioned how pathetic Antony Watson was. Two of Scotland`s tries were down to his hesitation and missed tackles and, as usual, he offered absolutely nothing in attack. Yet Eddie Jones once again gave him a full 80 minutes.

In my view he is never a stand out player for Bath or England. I reckon Lewington, Wade, Solomona or Yarde should be given a chance. Not one of them could be as bad as Watson was yesterday.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
25 February, 2018 11:56
England played like they did under Lancaster.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 12:09
I sort of agree re Watson but he finished well against Italy and had a good lions tour

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Barend (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 12:53
I think there may be some reviews of Jonathan Joseph's performance above, rather than just Watson.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
MartWhit (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 12:59
England are paying the price for the way the premiership is played and referees. They were expecting their ball to be protected by the ruck laws. However, Owens and the pro 14 do t play that way. This they are more adept in jackalling and make sure they get more support to the ball carrier.

Having said that, England did get selection wrong. Robshaw played well individually, but as usual was too slow of foot and thought to be effective at 7. In 3 games as a starter care has done nothing beyond service his runners and box kick competently. Nothing of his Ďnatural gameí has been seen. Ford is woefully out of form. England are stuck halfway between a power game and a speed one, and are doing neither particularly well.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
emerging shark (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 14:10
We won't win in Ireland for sure. probably because it's at Twickenham...

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Yareet (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 16:50
Much as anyone is entitled to their opinion, Iím left wondering where this thread was after any of the last 7 matches.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 17:03
Iíve heard similar comments. Fans have been concerned that England havenít kicked on in the last year.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 17:14
Quote:
Yareet
Much as anyone is entitled to their opinion, Iím left wondering where this thread was after any of the last 7 matches.

Perhaps it takes such a dire performance and a loss to highlight Englandís current deficiencies. A one dimensional power game, without sufficient power. A clear lack of ability to change the game plan when plan A isnít working. Too many players not in good nick, the lessons not learnt when playing teams who are excellent at the breakdown , and not understanding that different referees from different countries/leagues donít always referee the Ďenglish Ď way .
EJ and his coaching team need some soul searching as over the last 7 ( or more) matches , wrong selection , poor attack play and a narrow defence, canít all be put right overnight.
England now have a difficult match in Paris and Ireland going for a grand slam at Twickenham in St Patrickís day .

 
Re: Dear Eddie
MartWhit (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 17:27
theres not much wrong with england that having Billy Vunipola, Ben Teo & Ben Youngs in the mix cant solve.

However, Eddie is following a similar trajectory to Stuart Lancaster of starting off well, with a clear philosophy. And then getting a bit muddled and failing to kick on.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Yareet (IP Logged)
25 February, 2018 18:00
Quote:
clutch
Iíve heard similar comments. Fans have been concerned that England havenít kicked on in the last year.

So who has?

Ireland who won in Paris thanks to a Hail Mary play? They had c70% possession (if I remember correctly) and 0 line breaks.

Scotland? The darlings of the media yet obliterated by Wales.

Wales? Just lost to Ireland in a 6N game for the first time in 4 years.

Oz? Beaten by the same Scotland team as England (home and away)

NZ? Beaten three times in a year for the first time in living memory.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 11:20
I was trying to work out where one kicks on from when rated as one of the top two teams in the world.
Cut Eddy a bit of slack: Underhill and Symmonds show great promise......and our back play has improved significantly in some matches.
It's no disgrace to lose tries to performances like those of Russell and Jones.

That defeat was virtually predicted in the pre-match warm-up by Johnson: the consequences of even a dram of complacency and lack of intensity against a very good Scottish team playing in their fortress. He was very worried about it.
Home advantage is massive and tangible in this 6N.

We'll see how things stand at the end of this tournament.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
26 February, 2018 11:24
I don't mind the Scots winning once every 10 years although once every twenty years would be better.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
james46 (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 11:32
England only really looked any good against Wales. The game against Italy, England were poor for 3/4 of the match and only kicked on once the subs were on.

The match against Scotland, so much wrong and so little time to fix it against France and Ireland. If they play a similar game, it will be tight against France and they will lose against Ireland.

England forwards were slow and cumbersome, lacking dynamics with poor ball retention. A back row with Lawes & Hughes is always going to struggle, as both Lawes and Hughes are pretty one dimensional. Hughes has poor hands (check ho many times he drops the ball in matches) and is just a big lump who runs at people. How he got into the England side is a mystery. If we want lumps, there are better ones.

Hartley is past his best and needs parking, Mako is off form and Launchbury had his worst game and deserves another chance.

The limitations of the Ford 10 and Farrell 12 were exposed, and NZ will take a lot of notice of this.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
26 February, 2018 11:48
It's about time that some, if not all, the finishers started. Hughes was poor against Ireland last season. Mako, Lawes and Itoje look very stale after the Lions tour and this season's big games in the AP & Europe.

What a shame Simmonds was injured against wales. Ford is a liability unless the pack is well on top and he doesn't have to defend and has the space he needs to kick long and accurately.
I'd be inclined to start Farrell at 10 v France with Te'o at 12. I don't fancy Basteraud running at Ford.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 12:52
james, who are the lumps that should start ahead of Hughes. I cannot think of a single one.

Hughes was outstanding in the final for Wasps last year, and he's just come back from injury.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
MartWhit (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 12:59
many would reach fro Don Armand, but I agree that rumbustuous number 8's are thin on the ground after Billy V and Hughes.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 13:01
He's class, but he's not Hughes size as a carrier.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
ale shark (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 15:59
England always "labour" to massive wins over Italy yet when the Irish win by pretty much the same margin against the same opposition but at home they're hailed as world beating marvels. The press are a bunch of idiots. England were pretty good against Italy, you canít expect to dominate a game for 80 solid minutes, how many tries against Italy would make some people happy?

England had a wakeup call coming and got it on Saturday. Will be interesting to see who France drop this time. Iíd like to see George, Underhill, Tíeo and Nowell start for England with Denny on the bench.

Whether itís a title decider or not Ireland at Twickenham will be a huge game, a defining game for the Irish.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 16:35
From the team that started I wouldn't have the following in there:

Brown - although he can be solid we should be looking hard now at who can be his replacement in the coming years (including WC) and giving them game time now. And he was really caught out for his lack of pace vs Scotland.
Watson - good Lions tour not withstanding I don't think he should be near this team at the moment based on current form
May - may have bags of pace but really needs to find a rugby brain.
Denny and Nowell should be starting on the wing for me
Ford - out of form, Faz is just better
Care - bench only. No idea what Robson has to do to get a game
Hartley - George is better
Lawes - not a 6, needs to regain form

I think Farrell is our best 10 and should be playing there now for experience. Ford can back him up and be a bench option (although I think Cips would be better for that job...)

(You can easily see now the scenario of Ford having a 'mare in the early games in the WC, and then us moving Farrell to 10 when he has hardly started there in the last 2 years for England. And it not going well.)

In a way I am glad we lost, maybe it will be the wake up call needed. But I doubt it. Eddie doesn't seem the type to change his mind and admit he got things wrong...

To be honest I am finding it increasingly hard to get behind this England team: too many players picked on reputation and past achievements rather who is best right now, and for the WC. I can see us stuffing that up again here, it seems to be going in the same way as before. There seems to be very little looking ahead to what is the main target for this team, for me anyway.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
26 February, 2018 17:19
Daly & Sinckler added to training squad. No Solomona.

[www.englandrugby.com]



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/02/2018 17:20 by Mrs Trellis of North Wales.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 17:59
Shaftsbury - that's a nice post

Generally with this England side - we do the set pieces well, work hard in the forwards to ensure at least parity and with our backs we can execute moves well and do have a bit of X-factor with Ford in particular (like or loath him) able to put people through space. It may not seem it on paper but Ford at 10 and Faz at 12 works well and have done for us in the past few season. I thought when Ford went off we looked less likely to score.

We miss Billy V like crazy and it's obvious - he turns our forward pack from average into above average - he gets us out of trouble and punches serious holes in the oppo.

As much as folk like to slate Robshaw for things he can't do - his work-rate is incredible and he slows down the oppo ball as much as possible at many breakdowns as possible. Not having Billy means putting people like Lawes into the backrow. It's prob fair to say we haven't got the balance in that area right.

I think everyone knows Jamie G is better than Dylan on the pitch - all the players however speak extremely highly of Dylan's leadership on and off the pitch which I guess justifies his place for the moment


Brown I thought had a shocker - he's not the fastest, he certainly doesn't seem to like to pass however he's our most solid FB under a high ball, tends to really play with a lot of intensity and when he's on form we are more solid with him. It's of huge annoyance to myself that Haley's inconsistency has seen him not able to challenge Brown - I don't really see any other FB's in the Prem who can challenge Brown.

Your point on May is good - however he hasn't done anything in an England shirt (i.e. massive defence error) to drop himself. I think we miss Daley for his rugby brain so I would prefer him on the pitch. Not sure why Watson is coming in for a load of stick - we go beaten up front and he's a winger. I do like Nowell a lot - think he's always good.

I totally agree with your thoughts about Care- everything he does well when he comes on at sub he does the opposite when he starts. He manages to slow down already slow ball even more by waving at the ref and his box-kicking has never been the strongest, I was surprised we didn't start with Wriggle for this and the last game.

I do think we need to stick with Ford/Faz. If Faz moves to 10 I just think we lose a lot of creativity - Teo is a one trick pony and I remember a few season ago Jennings just tackled him on the gain line and he had zero impact.

The transition from some of the older players and balance of the back row without Billy going into the World Cup is of prime importance but we need to keep some balance - we have won 24 out of the last 26 games. I also think, and I see this in the prem, that the number of games the players are involved in and the sheer intensity of them means they will have off games. England, and I'll admit myself, I'm sure thought they would turn up, go through the motions and come away with a win. I'm sure for France/Ireland the usual intensity will be back and we'll ground the oppo down, Faz will kick the points through hard work we'll create space for the backs.

At least I hope we're do as I'm going to the Ireland game!

 
Re: Dear Eddie
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 18:22
Thank-you Surbiton. Ditto to you!

Agree with much of what you say, though not everything :-)

I do like Ford, but I think Faz is better and needs time to play. Of course Ford will look more likely to get the backs moving currently, Faz never plays 10! He needs to be given time - now and not in the 3rd match of the WC when it's too late! They both should see time at 10 IMO. And a 3rd option - 1 injury and we're stuffed...

I like Robshaw, but at 6 not 7. You are right that the balance isn't right at the moment in the back row, too many square pegs in round holes.

Quote:
Brown I thought had a shocker - he's not the fastest, he certainly doesn't seem to like to pass however he's our most solid FB under a high ball, tends to really play with a lot of intensity and when he's on form we are more solid with him. It's of huge annoyance to myself that Haley's inconsistency has seen him not able to challenge Brown - I don't really see any other FB's in the Prem who can challenge Brown.

Alex Goode
Elliot Daly?

Quote:
Your point on May is good - however he hasn't done anything in an England shirt (i.e. massive defence error) to drop himself. I think we miss Daley for his rugby brain so I would prefer him on the pitch. Not sure why Watson is coming in for a load of stick - we go beaten up front and he's a winger. I do like Nowell a lot - think he's always good.

May and Watson are fine players, I just think we have better. I also like Daly a lot and would have in there whenever fit.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 18:59
Itís not too late for EJ and his coaches to change things ( both personnel and tactically ) before the WC which is still 18 months and a dozen matches away. But they have to be brave.
On current performances England will have difficulties getting out of the group stages ( again) if they do , they will not get to the last 4.
Daly should be getting time at FB ( he can always have Brown as back up ) his qualities are already known . Underhill/Curry/Willis at 7. I would have Itoje at 6. Kruis/Lawes/Launchbury 4&5.
Nowell should start with Watson ( May on bench).
Hartleyís leadership wasnít in evidence on Saturday and he is keeping a better player out of the team.
There is no point on pinning all our hopes on a fit Billy V or Manu T, we need an alternative to power ( such as Simmons) interesting that the early EJ success was based on pace and more attacking variety.
I donít think we can win a WC with Ford and Faz playing together in all matches, selection should also reflect in part the style and tactics that the opposition employ.
Unfortunately I believe that EJ has pretty much made up his mind on his starting XV, and we are unlikely to any radical changes.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 19:42
Quote:
ale shark
England always "labour" to massive wins over Italy yet when the Irish win by pretty much the same margin against the same opposition but at home they're hailed as world beating marvels.
Well one of those teams was up 42-0 at one point and it wasn't England.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 21:01
Quote:
Irish_Shark
Quote:
ale shark
England always "labour" to massive wins over Italy yet when the Irish win by pretty much the same margin against the same opposition but at home they're hailed as world beating marvels.
Well one of those teams was up 42-0 at one point and it wasn't England.

You mean Ireland then went to sleep?

 
Re: Dear Eddie
ale shark (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 21:55
Quote:
DaveAitch
Quote:
Irish_Shark
Quote:
ale shark
England always "labour" to massive wins over Italy yet when the Irish win by pretty much the same margin against the same opposition but at home they're hailed as world beating marvels.
Well one of those teams was up 42-0 at one point and it wasn't England.

You mean Ireland then went to sleep?

such arrogance (Sm100)

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
26 February, 2018 22:13
Quote:
DaveAitch
Quote:
Irish_Shark
Quote:
ale shark
England always "labour" to massive wins over Italy yet when the Irish win by pretty much the same margin against the same opposition but at home they're hailed as world beating marvels.
Well one of those teams was up 42-0 at one point and it wasn't England.

You mean Ireland then went to sleep?
More like they just went down into 2nd gear and finished the game out without labouring

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 00:22
Any issue re turnovers isnít a 7 issue. Itís not the job of the 7 to clear out rucks on attacking ball. That is a collective responsibility. Not that Iím saying Robshaw is the answer at 7. The whole balance just doesnít feel right.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 03:20
I agree that our back row balance isn't right, though there were other issues compounding that against Scotland. Hughes first game back after injury, probably rushed in too early given injury to Simmonds. I was still surprised that Hughes was taken off, not Robshaw. I thought Robshaw was poor, which is rare for him, he can be ineffective at 7, but hardly ever actually poor. Have England played with a traditional jackalling 7 since Neil Back? Curry got a go in Argentina I suppose, (though I confess I don't recall which of the Curry's is the out and out Jackal).

I don't have a big issue with Ford and Farrell in general, but Ford is currently way off form, and agree with shaftesbury shark that Farrell would benefit from more time there at this level before being thrown in in middle of WC (though to be honest not much seems to phase Farrell, except perhaps Scottish No8's in the tunnel). Not sure many of our issues in the backs are personnel related, the only one I feel shouldn't be there is May, he too often looks as though he doesn't believe he should be there, how he is starting ahead of Nowell at the moment I'm not sure. A number of backs are not on top form at the moment, but international selectors can't pick on form alone. Brown is there to stay, he was MOM against Wales remember, he is generally reliable if frustrating in attack. But, again some else needs more gametime there.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Yareet (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 08:32
Quote:
shaftesbury shark
Eddie doesn't seem the type to change his mind and admit he got things wrong...


Yeah completely agree [www.espn.co.uk]

 
Re: Dear Eddie
BasilBullneck (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:01
One of the most disappointing aspects of the defeat was the inability of the England team to try to adjust their tactics. That should come from the captain in the first instance. Hartley is (a) meant to be in because of his captaincy, and (b) generally regarded as not being as effective or dynamic a player as George. If his captaincy doesn't work then he should go. Cowan-Dickie also appears to be putting in some very dynamic performances at the moment as well.

I would make Farrell captain in place of Hartley, and let him choose whether he plays 10 or 12; depending on his choice if he plays 10 bring in Teo; bring Daly in at 13; drop either Itoje or Lawes but move Lawes out of the back row; move Robshaw to 6, and Underhill to 7; retain Hughes at 8 with Simmonds on the bench (if fit); and Sinckler onto the bench.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 12:52
The problem is Farrell has moments of indiscipline on the pitch. Mind you, so did Martin Johnson and he did ok as captain!

Farrell's tackling stats are shocking at 12. Part of that can be explained by the defensive system, but the egg chasers did a comparison between Farrell at 12 for England and Barritt for Sarries. Not exactly a fair like for like comparison, but Farrell misses 1 in 3, Barritt 1 in 10.

Not sure Underhill at 7 is the answer. Lots to admire, but you don't see him jackeling. I honestly think B Curry should be worth a go.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
27 February, 2018 13:04
Unlikely with this haircut:-

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/968468644597587968/pu/img/7FpZtXRyk46FSBJJ.jpg



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
BasilBullneck (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 20:49
Long term I agree Underhill is not the answer and I would prefer either of the Currys, but can't see that happening in a fortnights time. Underhill would be my sticking plaster I the short time.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
isitme (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 21:02
Willis is the answer. I expect to see him blooded on the summer tour.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 22:03
Very good shout. Heís the most impressive young forward Iíve seen in ages and that includes Itoje

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Muzza (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 22:35
Yareet
Quote:
NZ? Beaten three times in a year for the first time in living memory.

Didn't happen - 2 only by the Lions and Aussie

 
Re: Dear Eddie
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 23:16
Ireland beat NZ as well - towards the end of 2016 so it was 3 defeats in twelve months (I think - not checked all the dates) but not three in a calendar year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/02/2018 23:21 by DaveAitch.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
franknfurter (IP Logged)
28 February, 2018 01:39
05/11/2016 All Blacks 29 - 40 Ireland Soldier Field, Chicago
01/07/2017 All Blacks 21 - 24 British & Irish Lions Westpac Stadium, Wellington
21/10/2017 All Blacks 18 - 23 Australia Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/02/2018 01:40 by franknfurter.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 17:56
16-9 down after 55, down to 14 men, French crowd up for it , 5 pens conceded at breakdown , Hask and Simmons on.
Uphill battle for EJ and his team.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:30
I may be wrong but I made it 9 penalties conceded at the breakdown.
England would have won had they started with Farrell at 10. They played much , much better when Ford went off.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:36
And of course congratulations to Ireland , well deserved , but will they freeze at Twickenham ?

 
Re: Dear Eddie
ashtonshark (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:39
Turgid and ponderous with seeming little game plan apart from one off forwards running slowly into contact for the majority of the game.

At least some dynamism when Sinckler and Haskell came on. Same old issues at the breakdown but then why would it be any different with the same players playing the same way. We were so slow and laborious you could have been mistaken for thinking we had dispensed with backs & just fielded 15 un-dynamic forwards

Don't fancy our chances against Ireland next week

 
Re: Dear Eddie
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:40
If all 23 of them freeze, they will will still be leading at the 60 minute mark, if England have learned from this performance like they learned from the last one.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Olyy (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 18:59
Breakdown monstered yet again, with no hint of making any changes there.

Serge Betsen said our breakdown strategy (in terms of tactics and players) was funny, and that playing a lock in the backrow is never going to cut it against specialists.
Maybe we should have listened.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
recycledyorkie2 (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 19:31
Just a thought - Care starts twice - England lose twice. I don't like Youngs but he is streets ahead of Care.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
10 March, 2018 19:45
Spencer should have been involved in this campaign as should Armand and Jack Willis.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 19:46
Quote:
recycledyorkie2
Just a thought - Care starts twice - England lose twice. I don't like Youngs but he is streets ahead of Care.

I know heís not in EJís plans but surely Robson would have offered something different once Youngs was injured.
I find it pretty incredulous that the richest rugby union in the world wonít employ an attack coach ....even Sale have one of those .
I really worry that EJís stuborness could be his downfall.
Playing a lock in the back row doesnít work , playing 2 10ís on the pitch doesnít work and not being smart at the breakdown will never work..

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Flumpty (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 19:49
Basteraud was a right royal PITA at the breakdown. If you were a Frenchie, you would have loved his ruck work.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 19:51
Quote:
Yareet
Much as anyone is entitled to their opinion, Iím left wondering where this thread was after any of the last 7 matches.

Interested to hear your views on Englandís chances next weekend.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Yareet (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 19:57
Quote:
camshark
Quote:
Yareet
Much as anyone is entitled to their opinion, Iím left wondering where this thread was after any of the last 7 matches.

Interested to hear your views on Englandís chances next weekend.

If they play like they have for the past 2 games, not good. If they play like they have for the past 2 years, pretty good.

Why would they have any less chance than Ireland did in Dublin last year? Especially as Ireland had lost 2 away games....

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Yareet (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 19:59
[quote camshark][quote recycledyorkie2]playing 2 10ís on the pitch doesnít work and not being smart at the breakdown will never work..[/quote]

Except it has for England for 2 years. And worked again for the Lions. And Wasps do ok

 
Re: Dear Eddie
10 March, 2018 20:02
Shiley - it depends on who the ref.is. I thought we'd struggle today with Peyper who habitually sees the small picture not the larger



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
philthefluter (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 20:36
What happened to the Drop Goal??

It won us the World Cup.

Today at the end of the first half with the clock on red, 9 - 9 and our scrum almost in front of the posts - and the Captain is the Outside Half - why not??

Almost as brain dead as when we scored the last try and we then tried to run the KO from within our own 22. How many good teams try and do that? Kick it into their half and put pressure on them. As usual we were pinged for holding on - game lost.

Why?

Answers please on a postcard.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Olyy (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 21:03
Quote:
recycledyorkie2
Just a thought - Care starts twice - England lose twice. I don't like Youngs but he is streets ahead of Care.

Definitely think we're missing Youngs.
Him and Care drive each other to be better, and when one is out of form the other tends to be on form so they dovetail nicely. Care isn't playing very well ATM, and Youngs can handle playing behind a beaten pack far better than Care can.


For my money Robson is the best 9 in England and I have literally no idea why he isn't in EJs plans. He even played really well in the Saxons games he played, so it's not like he showed he can't hack it in an international environment/away from his club or anything like that.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
yukon (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 21:05
Ireland are really, really good & they deserve it.

I think thatíll do for now



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2018 21:16 by yukon.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
thekeg (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 21:27
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Shiley - it depends on who the ref.is. I thought we'd struggle today with Peyper who habitually sees the small picture not the larger

Genuine question - are there any referees you like?

 
Re: Dear Eddie
10 March, 2018 21:41
Wayne Barnes



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
10 March, 2018 23:22
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Shiley - it depends on who the ref.is. I thought we'd struggle today with Peyper who habitually sees the small picture not the larger

Presumably you mean that he didn't let England gain advantage by being offside at every breakdown?

(Sm50)(Sm50)(Sm50)

Sorry, I know that was childish and immature but I couldn't resist it (Sm100)

 
Re: Dear Eddie
franknfurter (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 01:21
camshark


"Interested to hear your views on Englandís chances next weekend."

England will lose.

Pressure is on to come back on winning track and to deny Ireland the Grand Slam. Sadly, they will not be up to the task.

Mr Jones has 12 months to return to winning ways. Whilst for me, 6 Nations are important, RWC is the one that matters.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
franknfurter (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 01:28
Don't like to single out individual players, BUT

Anthony Watson? really international standard? Conceded a try against Scotland and a penalty try and red card against France.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
TrailblazingScot (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 07:43
Quote:
franknfurter
Don't like to single out individual players, BUT
Anthony Watson? really international standard? Conceded a try against Scotland and a penalty try and red card against France.

A red card? What game were you watching?

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Monty9 (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 08:31
I heard an interview with Eddie the other week in which he said we had something like 30+ ďstaffĒ for the Senior squad. How one of those isnít an attack coach I have no idea.

We definitely need to make changes but I donít agree with everyone saying the Ford/Farrell axis doesnít work, we have won what 22 out of 25 with them, we need to sort the break down and get them front foot ball. Regardless itís not going to change, unless one of them gets injured they will be 10/12 at the WC.

Also for all the so called experts who say Hartley and Brown should be no where near the team, I think we missed both of them yesterday. Brown looked good for the 10 mins he got.

In the grand scheme of thing losing this 6 nations is not the end of the world, the worry I have is that changes we should be making with the WC in mind, like Watson at 15, George at 2, I hope EJ doesnít take too much for yesterdayís performance and sticks with them going forward to give them 12 months to settle instead of reverting to aging players.

There are so many different players on the fringe for back row I hope we make some big changes there and give the younger guys like Willis and Simmonds time to establish themselves.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 09:10
I'm not too interested in the past results under EJ, we saw the same situation with Lancaster. The issues going forward are:
Does the 10/12 axis work ? For me it's unbalanced, Ford doesn't add a lot and Faz is not a natural 12 and one of the poorest tacklers ( according to the stats) in the 6 nations.
With no Saxons games, EJ has missed an opportunity to blood some young players . Would Mercer/Willis/Curry have been out of their depth yesterday ?
Ireland had a 20 and a 22 year old on their bench yesterday (succession/contingency planning for Sexton and Kearney) and both got game time.
EJ wants to be judged on the 2019 w/c . He has been in charge for almost 30 games, does he have sufficient back up in all positions ? I'm not convinced he has sorted out his preferred back 3, his midfield combination , his starting hooker come w/c time ( both Cowan Dickie and George need more game time), who plays 6&7?
Compare that with how settled the Irish team is, they should be at their peak by sept 2019.
Our creativity has diminished , partly though injuries, partly through chopping and changing. We are 18 months away from the first match of the w/c it's not too late to bring an attack coach in to freshen up/ introduce new ideas .
This isn't just about the last two games, against a poor Italy, and a very weakened Wales there were glaring deficiencies.
Part of me wants an Irish win next weekend as this will create more change and opportunity than a scrappy win.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Olyy (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 09:26
Quote:
camshark
I'm not too interested in the past results under EJ, we saw the same situation with Lancaster.

Our results have papered over the cracks of our performances.
I've said it before but winning ugly is one thing, but you need to learn and grow from it. we haven't.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 09:34
Not sure we missed Brown, though I agree he did well when he came on. Watsons yellow and PT were unfortunate, he had to make a tackle, just unlucky that the Frenchman was dipping as the tackle was made. Though I agree too that he didn't do a great deal other than that. George picked the wrong day to have an off day, I thought he was unusually poor. Cowan Dickie did very well. Not sure if that horror of a lineout at the end was his bad throw, wrong throw, or jumpers got it wrong.

That was the worst England performance I can remember in a long time, at least as bad as anything we saw under Lancaster. Are we regressing back into our non attacking shell as World Cup pressure starts to come on, as we did with Lancaster?



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Yareet (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 11:20
Quote:
franknfurter
Don't like to single out individual players, BUT
Anthony Watson? really international standard? Conceded a try against Scotland and a penalty try and red card against France.

Yellow

 
Re: Dear Eddie
philthefluter (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 11:52
The whole world agreed that the Scottish game was lost at the breakdown and yet he picks the same back row against France??

I like Lawes as a second row but he is no flanker and Robshaw isn't as quick around the park as he used to be. If we play the same back row against Ireland we will get trounced.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
StudentShark (IP Logged)
11 March, 2018 16:57
I'm in a weird position of hoping that we lose to Ireland, and that France beat Wales.
Finishing fifth should force people to acknowledge our deficiencies and do something about them. We may only be a few percent off where we need to be, but those few percent will be the hardest to achieve and maintain.


Watson has offered nothing all tournament. Daly/Brown at full back. May/Nowell/Solomona on the wings.

I like Ford and when the pack is dominant he is brilliant, but when the opposition is running at him he struggles. Needs to re-find his form

Robshaw is my first choice 6, but can't compete at the breakdown. Underhill is not the answer to this, clearly a fantastic tackler, but we need more than that. Armand/Currys need more chances.

I have no idea what has happened to Joseph. doesn't carry anything like the threat of a few seasons ago.


And that's just off the top of my head
A win against Ireland would serve as nothing more than a plaster to an axe wound. Ultimately useless, but something for people to hide behind...

 
Re: Dear Eddie
franknfurter (IP Logged)
12 March, 2018 01:37
Yeah, Watson got yellow card.
Must have been a typo because I was seeing red lol

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Flumpty (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 11:39
Quote:
Monty9
Brown looked good for the 10 mins he got.

he may have given the appearance of looking good, but that had more to do with a) Anthony Watsons performance that preceeded him and b) at long, long, long last England tried to distribute the balls to the wider channels, rather than single phase boshing it up the middle repeatedly.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
14 March, 2018 11:45
Fwiw I think Goode is a better allround fb than either Brown or Watson.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 12:34
The one thing Goode lacks is any pace.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
TrailblazingScot (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 21:24
Quote:
clutch
The one thing Goode lacks is any pace.

Still has the most meters gained in the Aviva Premiership this season according to the stats. Quite remarkable if he lacks any pace.

[www.premiershiprugby.com]

Perhaps the term should be deceptively quick.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
clutch (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 21:44
More than one way to skin a cat. He doesnít have pace. Doesnít mean he isnít class.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
14 March, 2018 22:38
Goode should have been getting some significant game-time in the last few seasons. then there would be no doubt if he was good enough or not, we would know by experience and how he got on. there would be no need to speculate based on (excellent) club form.

As it is nobody knows if he is good enough or not. and probably won't now.

all Eddie has done instead is play Brown again and again and again... and learn nothing about his options.

and seriously, I doubt he is any slower then Brown.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
15 March, 2018 08:20
A cynic might say that one reason that Goode is in great form for his club is that he hasn't been involved in summer tours and England camps.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Dear Eddie
Yareet (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 09:57
Quote:
shaftesbury shark
Goode should have been getting some significant game-time in the last few seasons. then there would be no doubt if he was good enough or not, we would know by experience and how he got on. there would be no need to speculate based on (excellent) club form.
As it is nobody knows if he is good enough or not. and probably won't now.

all Eddie has done instead is play Brown again and again and again... and learn nothing about his options.

and seriously, I doubt he is any slower then Brown.

I'd disagree. Without coming across as a Jones apologist (I'd say the same if it was Lancaster, Johnson or Geoff Cooke), is that Jones sees a lot more of these players than we do and knows what he wants players to do. He clearly wants to win so one can only assume he picks the team/squad he feels can best achieve that.

He (at least in his mind) knows that Goode (Cipriani, Wade, Robson, hell Ross Harrison) is not good enough for some reason so personally I will trust that judgement.

And Goode has 21 caps - 14 as a starter. He's had a shot and two successive England coaches have preferred Brown.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
15 March, 2018 14:27
Yareet, yes, wouldn't really disagree with that. Only 2 caps since the world cup though, and he has been tearing it up for Sarries for ages now, I think he has earned a go. Agree that Eddie gets to see these guys in training etc. but I don't really know how well that transfers ot the pitch.

At least Watson is getting some game time now - I'm not saying Goode is better than Brown, it's just that if/when Brown is perhaps off form, or injured, maybe in the world cup, then what are the options? We never seem to give the back-ups a proper go in some positions. And then when we need them, everyone is in unfamiliar positions with unfamiliar team mates and things don;t work. This was a major error in the last WC for me and I find it frustrating that we don't seem to be learning from that. (could say the same for Sale as well, apart from that we don't go to world cups...).

(And for what it's worth, I think Goode should be playing not Watson)

Yes, we have to trust the coach, he knows a lot more about this than I do of course. But it doesn't make them infallible, or prevent us from having our own (sometimes valid) opinions about stuff.

 
Re: Dear Eddie
camshark (IP Logged)
17 March, 2018 17:17
Quote:
Surbiton Shark
Is that his second loss in 26?
Get a grip.....

As Dimes says about Sale - we were out enthused....


Care to comment ? England are way off the mark .
Just what phase of our play went well today ?


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