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Another reffing scandal.............
19 March, 2018 08:51
at the Belgium v Spain RWC2019 qualifier. For the first time ever a match may be replayed.

[www.rugbyworld.com]



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Flumpty (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 10:19
Do you have a link about the game being possibly replayed.

Its not good to see scenes like that at the end of play.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
MartWhit (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 10:32
It would set a major precedent to replay the tie. It would also involve handign the ref out to dry, and since he's the top rated ref outside the Tier 1 nations and is due to ref his first European Challenge cup game soon, would be an extraordinary move.

Still an terribly handled appointment though. Brings shame on the organisers.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
ale shark (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 10:37
Poor behaviour but the conflict of interest with the referee's nationality should have been enough to not have him officiating the game in the first place.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
19 March, 2018 10:37
Yes - Spain had objected to him reffing the game months before but were ignored.

Can you cite a ref. (Sm100)?



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
jaytom (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 10:58
Totally unnecessary - plenty of other refs to pick, why pick one with the potential for there to be such a clear cut conflict of interest?

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Flumpty (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 11:00
any link for the game possibly being replayed ? I couldn't see anything in the original article about a potential replay.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
19 March, 2018 11:09
It was Twitter chatter between Stephen Jones & Gallagher. The game happened yesterday so plenty of time for an enquiry to come from WR.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
clutch (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 12:58
What should happen is that Spain should be kicked out and banned from the world cup, and banned from the next 2nd tier 6 nations and also banned from qualifying from the next world cup. The Spanish no 6 should be banned for a long time.

We cannot allow this to happen without putting in place a huge deterrent. Otherwise this kind of stuff is deemed acceptable and will trickle down to grass roots.

Rugby holds itself in high regard re treatment of refs, especially when compared to football, but footballers don't touch and physically intimidate like this.

The ref bias thing is nonsense. We have other nationalities refereeing the 6 nations for example, as well as Welsh refs in the Anglo Welsh.

Regardless of the ref Spain should have hammered Belgium, unless the ref has genuinely cheated and started making stuff up!!!

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Flumpty (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 13:41
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
It was Twitter chatter between Stephen Jones & Gallagher. The game happened yesterday so plenty of time for an enquiry to come from WR.

who's Gallagher ?

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
19 March, 2018 13:44
Brendan of that ilk.

The problem is the laws allow many 50/50 calls and if they all go one way then the victims can't really play.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Flumpty (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 14:22
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Brendan of that ilk.
The problem is the laws allow many 50/50 calls and if they all go one way then the victims can't really play.

I'm not being obtuse, but who is Brendan Gallagher

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Yareet (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 14:30
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
Mrs Trellis of North Wales
Brendan of that ilk.
The problem is the laws allow many 50/50 calls and if they all go one way then the victims can't really play.

I'm not being obtuse, but who is Brendan Gallagher

Rugby journo [twitter.com]

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Flumpty (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 14:49
ok, I think that I get it now.

2 journalists have a conversation online and it becomes "For the first time ever a match may be replayed. "

so nothing official and nothing from an official source, just 2 journos tapping on a keyboard.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Yareet (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 14:53
Quote:
Flumpty
ok, I think that I get it now.
2 journalists have a conversation online and it becomes "For the first time ever a match may be replayed. "

so nothing official and nothing from an official source, just 2 journos tapping on a keyboard.

Gallagher states that it is possible but "a long way to go"

Hv delved into the World Rugby regs and if, on having investigated all the circumstances of Belgium v Spain, WR are not happy, they ARE able to scrub match result & order a replay Rule 18. 6. 1(cool smiley. Long way to go before that, much more info needed, but the option is there.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 16:13
Basically, so far, no one outside of the Spanish camp has suggested the ref cheated.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
clutch (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 18:06
Just listened to egg chasers. It looks dubious. Innocent until otherwise but 20 more penalties for Belgium. Head of European rugby is also Romanian. Apparently there is 10 min footage on YouTube so may take a look.

None of that excuses the behaviour of the Spanish players.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Crutch (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 18:36
20 more penalties?! Thats a hell of a lot, especially against the perceived stronger team.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
loverugby1979 (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 19:24
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Basically, so far, no one outside of the Spanish camp has suggested the ref cheated.

ok, i will wait for your rectification about it. It's common sense.

Do you know this guy?

[twitter.com]

And i think that you should hear about this other guy that are requested something...

[twitter.com]

Take a look please from an impartial side...Thx.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/03/2018 19:27 by loverugby1979.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
loverugby1979 (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 19:26
Quote:
Crutch
20 more penalties?! Thats a hell of a lot, especially against the perceived stronger team.

The final count was 28 vs 8. One penalty every 2'8'' minutes against Spain. I think that this said all...

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
clutch (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 22:06
Not without seeing the game it doesnít.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
clutch (IP Logged)
19 March, 2018 23:06
That youtube guy is an absolute oaf. Really poor analysis. half of the pens he agrees with, another quarter are harsh, but he doesn't have enough examples of inconsistency to prove it and a quarter of the decisions are just wrong.

It doesn't look great, but to be honest, watching the ref and his positioning and general demeanour, he just looked out of his depth as much as anything.

It is just as feasible that Spain, under huge pressure had a few early calls against them, and sort of lost the plot a bit.

Plus, poor refs, tend to have certain areas they are officious in. It could be that the Belgians were strong in those particular areas.

There are two options. Prove the ref cheated and ban him from refereeing. Or ban Spain. You can't reply the game. It's doesn't make sense and is totally unfair on Belgian. I don't care if Sir Clive Nosenseofhumour agrees.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 01:04
So as more people see this more make comment, I don't really get your point loveRugby1979. Please don't hold anything Sir Clive says these days in any kind of regard, I will be forever grateful for what he did for England Rugby, but everything he puts in public domain these days is about drawing attention to himself.

I stopped watching the YouTube ref after 4 penalties, the first of which is the only obvious mistake by the match ref.

World Rugby will review. The ref will have been assessed. I agree with Clutch, replaying the game would be dangerous. prompting calls for replays from all quarters. That said, IF World rugby review reveals that the ref cheated, rather than was just poor then a replay is probably the only fair conclusion



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
franknfurter (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 04:11
World Rugby "will look at the "context of events" around the result'

[www.bbc.com]


No mention of replays or sanctions

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
clutch (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 06:13
Can we reply that game against Leicester a few years back when Wigglesworth penalised us 4 times in a row incorrectly against Leicester?

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
loverugby1979 (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 06:28
Quote:
clutch
That youtube guy is an absolute oaf. Really poor analysis. half of the pens he agrees with, another quarter are harsh, but he doesn't have enough examples of inconsistency to prove it and a quarter of the decisions are just wrong.
It doesn't look great, but to be honest, watching the ref and his positioning and general demeanour, he just looked out of his depth as much as anything.

It is just as feasible that Spain, under huge pressure had a few early calls against them, and sort of lost the plot a bit.

Plus, poor refs, tend to have certain areas they are officious in. It could be that the Belgians were strong in those particular areas.

There are two options. Prove the ref cheated and ban him from refereeing. Or ban Spain. You can't reply the game. It's doesn't make sense and is totally unfair on Belgian. I don't care if Sir Clive Nosenseofhumour agrees.

Ok, we can discuss about the referee performance with different angles. But you don't talk about that Spanish Federation request a change of officials long before the match. At the same point that WR change one linesman at England-Ireland match.

The request was rejected by a organization that is managing by a Romanian President. Conflict of interest. Very clearly. it would have been clearly avoidable....Are you agree at this point?

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
clutch (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 07:35
Or there are all sorts of issues I agree but Iím not sure the ref should have been switched. They are entitled to ignore this. The error is that this was the most significant game and Ian Tempest, who is clearly a better choice, should have had this game. The penalty count is scandalous as well but there is no proof of any wrongdoing. A reply without proof would be ridiculous.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
loverugby1979 (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 17:35
Quote:
clutch
Or there are all sorts of issues I agree but Iím not sure the ref should have been switched. They are entitled to ignore this. The error is that this was the most significant game and Ian Tempest, who is clearly a better choice, should have had this game. The penalty count is scandalous as well but there is no proof of any wrongdoing. A reply without proof would be ridiculous.

We are agree about your view about that a better ref choice should been done like Ian Tempest.

We'll see the outcome of the meeting to discuss this match on Friday at Poznan.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
20 March, 2018 17:42
The referee and his officials should have been switched, if for no other reason than they would be slated on social (surely that's a misnomer) media almost however well they performed their duties.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
loverugby1979 (IP Logged)
21 March, 2018 06:08
Quote:
DaveAitch
The referee and his officials should have been switched, if for no other reason than they would be slated on social (surely that's a misnomer) media almost however well they performed their duties.

More info.

One of the linesman was wearing clothes from the Romanian Team with the team shield clearly visible(there are pictures) and he belongs to this organization(Romanian Federation) before the match!!.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 21/03/2018 06:23 by loverugby1979.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
21 March, 2018 08:11
Quote:
"Referees' appointments for the Rugby Europe Championship have been made ahead of the competition by an independent and neutral skilled committee," it said.
('It' being European Rugby - article on BBC Sport.)
I presume they mean a 'skilled neutral committee'. Mind you, sticking with the original selection does show 'neutral skill'.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Flumpty (IP Logged)
27 March, 2018 15:56
The intrigue continues

Rugby World Cup 2019 picture takes another turn as Romania and Belgium accused of fielding ineligible players

Russia and Germany have asked for clarification on players used by Romania and Belgium, with potential disqualification from the Rugby Europe Championship on the cards

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
27 March, 2018 16:01
...oh and Tahiti have been kicked out for fielding ineligible players - apparently they claimed to have Tahitian grannies.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Crutch (IP Logged)
27 March, 2018 18:35
Quote:
clutch
Can we reply that game against Leicester a few years back when Wigglesworth penalised us 4 times in a row incorrectly against Leicester?

Wasn't it more like 8? I tried to find the quote online somewhere a while back and failed, but it was sufficient for the assessor to raise it as I recall. Generally it's very difficult to say that a single decision causes a team to win or lose, but I think it's fair to say that we would have won that game if those decisions had gone the right way!

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
thekeg (IP Logged)
27 March, 2018 18:41
Quote:
Crutch
Quote:
clutch
Can we reply that game against Leicester a few years back when Wigglesworth penalised us 4 times in a row incorrectly against Leicester?

Wasn't it more like 8? I tried to find the quote online somewhere a while back and failed, but it was sufficient for the assessor to raise it as I recall. Generally it's very difficult to say that a single decision causes a team to win or lose, but I think it's fair to say that we would have won that game if those decisions had gone the right way!

My memory is it was 4 or 5, 8 would be extraordinary! Still bitter about that match, Iím not one to whinge about refs but that game felt like a absolute travesty

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
emerging shark (IP Logged)
27 March, 2018 20:05
Can we reply that game against Leicester a few years back when Wigglesworth penalised us 4 times in a row incorrectly against Leicester?
Really? were you on the pitch next to him....

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
clutch (IP Logged)
27 March, 2018 21:00
Donít think so. Donít get the question!?

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Crutch (IP Logged)
27 March, 2018 22:05
Found the Dimes quote from the MEN that was put on the board;

"But, if Iím honest, I was more annoyed with the Leicester defeat the week before where the refereeís report admitted that five of the last decisions, which all went against us, were wrong."

Also found that I'd incorrectly stated 8 in May 15, so I was remembering my own exaggeration!

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
27 March, 2018 23:52
I haven't seen the report, so don't know what it actually said. However, it's not entirely inconceivable that the only part of the report being quoted is that part which supports what the reader wants to see.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
hilly07 (IP Logged)
28 March, 2018 09:50

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
StalyShark (IP Logged)
28 March, 2018 10:42
Quote:
hilly07
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/sale-sharks-ponder-life-without-8409670

Only about three years late...

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
28 March, 2018 11:21
The point is refs make mistakes - Wigglesworth made more than most probably - but the issue is the referee being biased in favour of one team due to vested interest.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
hilly07 (IP Logged)
28 March, 2018 12:01
Quote:
StalyShark
Quote:
hilly07
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/sale-sharks-ponder-life-without-8409670

Only about three years late...

Just supplying the source of the quote that was being discussed

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
28 March, 2018 12:04
Hilly, thanks, but I meant the referee's report, rather than what was said in the paper. I should have stated that in my earlier post.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Crutch (IP Logged)
28 March, 2018 14:18
I'm sure you're right Dave that the report needs to be read as a whole, but I also think it's pretty unusual for the assessor to make such a clear statement on wrong calls being made?

Anyway, clearly Clutch was being facetious in terms of equating that game to this recent incident. We could question Wigglesworth's ability, but not his objectivity (and I do of course recognise that it's a very difficult game to ref, especially around the breakdown which I think most of the pens related to).

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
clutch (IP Logged)
28 March, 2018 15:45
Yeah. I was joking. They should ref us favourably come the last game of the season though to make amends!

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
ageinghoody (IP Logged)
07 April, 2018 06:55
Seems like World Rugby were indeed inclined to order a replay but then other factors complicated matters.

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Maybe I'm being harsh but conflating the issues smacks a bit of kicking the immediate problem into the long grass.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
07 April, 2018 07:15
Nah - they'll chuck Romania out so Spain qualify.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Flumpty (IP Logged)
18 April, 2018 12:58
Five Spanish players banned after Belgium defeat

the rugby wheels of justice rumble onwards

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
TrailblazingScot (IP Logged)
18 April, 2018 18:32
Rugby Europe needs to be put under new management. A clear conflict of interests when the Romanian President ignores a request from Spain not to have Romanian officials in a game that decided whether Spain or Romania qualify.

In terms of the refereeing, I'm no expert but the handling of the deliberate knock-on at 12:56 in this video was questionable at best: [www.youtube.com]

6:30 is also pretty interesting.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/04/2018 19:00 by TrailblazingScot.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
18 April, 2018 21:28
Not overly surprised by this and however upset the Spanish players were, abusing the ref is unacceptable.

Given that World Rugby are still investigating, this leaves open the scenario Iíd wondered about at the time, namely a replay being ordered but with several Spanish players banned. The good news for them is that if Spain does end up at the World Cup, these players will be available.

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
15 May, 2018 16:53
Russia qualify for RWC whilst Germany have further chance to qualify.

[www.bbc.com]

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Flumpty (IP Logged)
15 May, 2018 21:22
Good news for our Angry Russian

 
Re: Another reffing scandal.............
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
15 May, 2018 21:24
Quote:
Flumpty
Good news for our Angry Russian

not so good for our romanian


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