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Marquee Signing
welsh sharks (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 17:06
rugby inside line have said its likely jesse kriel has signed! wouldn’t say no to him as a replacement for addison, always been impressed with him!

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Monty9 (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 17:11
Shall we list all the players RIL have linked us with, it’s got to be at least 10 in the last couple of weeks? Out of 10 you would think they might get 1 right?

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 17:12
It seems a good shout.

We are in the hunt for a back, preferably.someone who can play across the line, and we would want a decent name to get some publicity.

Kriel can play FB, CT and WG. He is out of contract with the Bulls after this season also.

Sale have focused a lot of time and energy on scouting South African players as they’re free to play abroad but not miss the RWC due to the caveat in their playing overseas rule, and they count as Kolpaks.

This would be a real statement of intent.

I don’t think McGuigan is best at full back and JOC is too injury prone to hold the shirt for a prolonged amount of time.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 17:14
Quote:
Monty9
Shall we list all the players RIL have linked us with, it’s got to be at least 10 in the last couple of weeks? Out of 10 you would think they might get 1 right?

Scott Spedding
Joe Marler
Kyle Sinckler
Jesse Kriel

Those four of the top of my head.

Spedding and Kriel probably come from info re FBs being on our list and they fit the bill.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 17:16
I read Jesse Kriel in Hugh Bladen's accent in my head. Definitely a quality player.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 17:25
Imagine

De Klerk
MacGinty
Yarde
RJVR
S James
Solomona
Kriel

Cliff
O’Connor
McGuigan

Filth.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
clutch (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 17:56
What position does Flilth play.

Does signing a marque centre imply no van cannonball?

 
Re: Marquee Signing
thekeg (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 18:03
Quote:
clutch
What position does Flilth play.
Does signing a marque centre imply no van cannonball?

We should have salary cap spare for him and in any event can’t you have 2 marquee signings?

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 18:06
Quote:
clutch
What position does Flilth play.
Does signing a marque centre imply no van cannonball?

Flilth doesn’t play anywhere

Filth plays 1-15. Very skilled.

We have enough cap room to get someone on big bucks within the cap surely. I’d also say there is a new trend of proclaiming players as ‘marquee level’ - doesn’t mean they’re going to be marquee, just that they meet that level of value.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
clutch (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 18:07
You can, but will we, from what we can deduce from owners spending medium term plans

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 18:13
Quote:
clutch
You can, but will we, from what we can deduce from owners spending medium term plans

Haley and Addison would have been on some serious wedge. Addison was signed up on his contract when we were trying to keep him out of Wasps hands. Haley had his renewed when he was the next big thing in a lot of peoples eyes for the England 15 shirt.

You look at the money freed up there and think, one marquee (Kriel) and then say RJVR (who we would be going for whatever happens) and it looks more likely that they’d be willing to make bigger signings

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 18:13
Quote:
clutch
You can, but will we, from what we can deduce from owners spending medium term plans

Haley and Addison would have been on some serious wedge. Addison was signed up on his contract when we were trying to keep him out of Wasps hands. Haley had his renewed when he was the next big thing in a lot of peoples eyes for the England 15 shirt.

You look at the money freed up there and think, one marquee (Kriel) and then say RJVR (who we would be going for whatever happens) and it looks more likely that they’d be willing to make bigger signings

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 18:16
I would be over the moon if RJvR signs. Positively salivating if Kriel does as well!

 
Re: Marquee Signing
2007dwain (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 18:47
I know it’s different position but if we have signed kriel that we haven’t signed RJVR

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 18:48
Quote:
2007dwain
I know it’s different position but if we have signed kriel that we haven’t signed RJVR

Why is that the case?

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Olyy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 19:02
Surely we've learnt not to listen to any of the @#$%& that falls out of Rugby Inside Line's mouth?
I'd be amazed if their rumour strike rate was above 1% for the season.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Hirdyshark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 19:40
Would be deighted if we've actually signed Kriel, classy player who appears to be rediscovering the form of a couple of years ago. Also only 24 and able to play in a number of positions in the backline. Shows promise that we're now going for a higher class of player than we're used to. However, like Olyy said, need to err on the side of the caution with regards to RIL, their Marler rumour got shot down pretty much straight away by the player himself.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Marconi (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 20:07
Great signing for Sale if true - certainly turning into the new Harlem Globetrotters!

Backline posted above would be right up there with the best in the league, potentially Europe

 
Re: Marquee Signing
11 April, 2018 20:34
He big mates with Jono - pictured with him on Jono’s Instagram in SA in January. Great signing if true

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Ayerza wannabe (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 20:55
Looking at the replies to that tweet I don't think he realised that Kriel is signed up till after the Rugby world cup considering he is saying that the contract ends 2018 yet all the Saffers are saying it's till 2019.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 21:05
Quote:
Ayerza wannabe
Looking at the replies to that tweet I don't think he realised that Kriel is signed up till after the Rugby world cup considering he is saying that the contract ends 2018 yet all the Saffers are saying it's till 2019.

He signed a 3 year deal according to some sites in 2015.

Other sites show him as not out of contract until 2019

I’d say with the SA playing overseas rule change for the RWC a lot of those contracts are in fact 3 or 2 plus 1s

 
Re: Marquee Signing
ale shark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2018 21:20
What about the contracts of the players he might be replacing? Means nothing.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 10:10
well, they do. Thats what contracts are, legally binding on both parties, but only if you exercise your choice to enforce them.

Anyway, moving on. If you read Dimes preview of the Newcastle game, you wont find much about the falcons game. But you will find a robust defence of his thriftiness in maintaining a small squad, including the phrase "We wont change".

Falcons preview from the offy

It reads to me as a fairly specific piece of expectation management.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
clutch (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 12:48
Nothing we don’t already know. They have been clear about building the business ie gates etc before increasing spending. Plus we’d rathee promote a Redpath rather than do what Bath do, and sign more journeymen

 
Re: Marquee Signing
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 13:09
All that is fine by me as long as there is a plan for growing that top line. I'm sure there is one. However, its a painfully shallow upward slope in revenue if at all at the moment, made more difficult to achieve by not retaining all of the stadium revenues.

I'd say its well known on here that I'd favour a more proactive investment strategy to grow the club and try to grow revenues behind that. Success not guaranteed, but then nor is organic revenue growth. To me its doing the same thing but hoping for a different outcome, whilst in the meantime still seeing several of our stronger assets cherry picked away before we've been able to realise their full value.

So it comes down to faith in where the current level of investment and rate of growth will ultimately top out in terms of results. I genuinely admire the faith of most of you on here. Please don't shoot me simply for not feeling confident to share in it.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
clutch (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 13:43
Depends on how we market ourselves next for next season. Results aren’t everything but now the Diamond Bridge is built it’s a decent place to watch rugby so that should attract bigger gates next season. Another marquee signing would help as well.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 14:29
Mart - I think you’re reading way too much into the preview piece. You’ve got to fill copy somehow and the team talk will be given in the changing room, not in that preview piece. I’m not sure if it was after Wasps or Worcester where he made some recorded comments about the changing nature of the side and the fact we’ve won a few away now. Why write the Falcons’ team talk for them by coming out bullishly ahead f what will be a tricky fixture at any stage of the season? The fact is, the team has gelled fabulously in 2018. Even then, a bit of expectations Management can be forgiven with the absence of Will, JOC and Denny (piece written before Haley was banned).

As for investment, everyone is entitled to their own view. But I personally find it strange that you think nothing has changed, when we’ve gone from signing Lou Reed and Nick Scott to signing Strauss, De Klerk, Solomona, Yarde and JOC. If that’s not investment to grow the club, I don’t know what is. WillGriff over Longbottom? Yes please. Jono Ross over an ageing Lund or ineffectual Pearce? Any day of the week. Not to mention the big effort put into forcing the access issues - recent games have been as easy as pie to get to and from. If you get there early enough, there’s free food and drink - all incremental steps to improve the experience and make it a more attractive offering. Finally, signing longer contracts is expressly designed to stop talent being cherry-picked. Addison and Haley are unique situations and moving abroad for international a,notions is very different to leaving for a rival at the end of a contract.

It’s going to be a big ask to win given our absentees, but it’s perfectly possible.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Crutch (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 14:55
Pappje, I think you're slightly taking Mart the wrong way. Clearly the players invested in are of a higher quality, but the squad is still small to compensate. At the moment the model appears to be, sign a couple of class players, add them to the young talent and hope that by winning more games we attract more fans and bring more money in, but nothing has really changed at the club in terms of how it can make more money to be able to invest more into the squad

Contra to that, we are supposedly interested in buying the ground so that we could make money from food and drink, and I guess by hosting other events through the season, but it seems like the wrong move if the club feels the stadium just isn't in a location to ever really grow the crowds.

Then there's the fact we are apparently interested in building our own stadium which clearly would be a massive step change but I guess is too far away from reality to be considered at this stage. If the funding to build a stadium would require the kind of financing Wasps have done then I'd personally prefer to avoid the risk of the whole club being wound up and stick to current the slow organic growth model.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 15:59
I think part of Dimes thinking is that the models being pursued elsewhere are unsustainable, and that the others will come back to us at some point.

He may or may not be right, but its also a strategy that beyond his control. Dimes is 100% right with his Northern powerhouse vision. I just wish he'd be more ambitious in exploring the ceiling potential of it.

Crutch got me about right. I think the squad is better now than for quite some time, but it has shrunk as a consequence. Put simply, more capability, less capacity.

I think this squad needn't wait to succeed in 1/2/3 years time. It had potential to achieve knockout rugby this year. We squandered decent opportunities to do that in the AW and Europe for want of squad depth. We might squeak in in the Premiership, but for this make or break game in Newcastle we are again finding our squad stretched beyond its capacity.

I'd agree with Pappje on the stadium issues. The club has done a lot within its power to improve that this year, both with moving to Saturdays and with the entertainment. They cant really be given credit for the bridge, but that improved access does give them a chance to really try to sell games next year knowing they can get people in and away. Here's hoping they grasp the nettle with both hands.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
thekeg (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 16:02
Is this squad really smaller than the last 5 years? I think we’ve been consistently at 32/33

 
Re: Marquee Signing
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 16:28
objectively yes Keg.

This Year comes in at 32 only if you include mid season additions such as Moore and Luke James.

Last year we listed 36:
Roberts, Harrison, Flynn
Webber, Briggs
Aulika, Longbottom, Mujati, Parker
Mills, Ostrikov
Evans, Reed
Nield, Pearce
Ioane, Seymour, T Curry, B Curry
Beaumont, Lund
Stringer, Phillips, Mitchell
MacGinty, Mugford
Arscott, Edwards
Tuitopou, Leota
James, Jennings
Addison, Charnley
Haley, McGuigan

 
Re: Marquee Signing
thekeg (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 16:55
Harrison
Flynn
Tarus
WGJ
Aulika
Jones
Webber
Langdon
Nield
Nott
Beaumont
Ostrikov
Evans
Curry
Curry
Ross
Strauss
Moore
Ioane
Seymour
Cliff
De Klerk
MacGinty
O’Connor
James
James I
Addison
Jennings
Leota
RJVR
Yarde
Solomona
Charnley
McGuigan
Odogwu
Haley

I’d add odogwu to your list too.

You could argue RJVR and yarde count as half each so that’s 35 this year. I’d say the same for reed and arscott in last year’s list. Certainly the quality and depth is better this year as you suggest

 
Re: Marquee Signing
MartWhit (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 16:57
I left Nott off my previous list too, and Bedlow who made a couple of early appearances.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
thekeg (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:03
There’s always those that are a bit of a grey area.

I make us as 32 st the moment for next year including the two announced signings. That doesn’t include the likes of redpath and Wilkinson. Sturgess also will presumably feature a bit more. We certainly still need a prop and a couple of centres/FB

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Monty9 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:18
Kegs list for this season comes in at 35/36, Mart is saying it’s 32 and “has shrunk” from previous seasons.

Maths has never being my strongest subject, but that would suggest we haven’t shrunk? No? Just me?

 
Re: Marquee Signing
thekeg (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:28
I’m not getting wedged between another row!

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Monty9 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:33
No row Keg, genuine question as it seemed you were both providing different numbers but were also in agreement. I haven’t taken the time to look at the squad numbers but seems from above that your list is correct which would suggest we haven’t shrunk, but have stayed the same while improving quality.

No axe, just genuine question.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 17:37
Quote:
thekeg
Harrison
Flynn
Tarus
WGJ
Aulika
Jones
Webber
Langdon
Nield
Nott
Beaumont
Ostrikov
Evans
Curry
Curry
Ross
Strauss
Moore
Ioane
Seymour
Cliff
De Klerk
MacGinty
O’Connor
James
James I
Addison
Jennings
Leota
RJVR
Yarde
Solomona
Charnley
McGuigan
Odogwu
Haley

I’d add odogwu to your list too.

You could argue RJVR and yarde count as half each so that’s 35 this year. I’d say the same for reed and arscott in last year’s list. Certainly the quality and depth is better this year as you suggest

Would Langdon and Moore count as senior squad players? I’d say they’re more senior academy players who have barely featured.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
thekeg (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 18:04
Sane with someone like Parker the year before, plus we had players like reed who are “senior”” in age but just didn’t seem to be at the level required

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Monty9 (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 18:17
It’s also easy to forget considering the enormous impact that they made but Tom and Ben both spent the first half of last season at Sale FC.

So all in all, squad size the same it appears

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 18:19
The Offy has a senior squad of 30 excluding

Charnley
RJVR (wouldn’t count him anyway as shares a spot with Yarde)
L James (technically still academy)
Or Langdon/Moore etc etc.

I’d say we have a squad of 32 realistically to work with, and we dip into the academy for AW Cup plus when we start to suffer from injuries and bans, as any other club would.

In a perfect world, if we are looking to do well domestically and not get battered in Europe, I think a squad of 38/39 senior players plus your academy is about right.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 18:32
Actually I’d be happy with a squad of say 35 plus Moore, Redpath, Wilkinson, L James and Reed being Jets but all being seen as essentially 3rd choice in their positions.

Redpath covering centre
L James covering centre
Wilkinson covering fly half
Moore covering 6/8
Reed covering back 3

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
12 April, 2018 19:32
The quality issue is absolutely crucial. Having a body for the sake of depth is simply a waste of cash on salary in my view. I hate to pick on Lou Reed, but that was a stopgap given Kruger welched on us - and he made, what, one appearance? He was never going to properly figure and it’s misleading to suggest he constituted part of a deeper squad (even before the numbers above suggest we’re about level). Similarly, Parker can’t really be counted as a full body, whilst Mujati left half way through so perhaps they count as half each. It may be a source of regret that Parker left given the apparent circumstances in which he did, but again with our depth at TH I don’t think that is something that has cost us this year.

Personally, I think incremental growth has to be the way forward. It’s barely a week since the figures were published on losses across the Premiership, which is clearly financially unsustainable at present. Dai Young was grumbling before our fixture, but one of the issues for Wasps is seemingly that they splurged heavily on superstars but the finances have dictated thinnning the squad as a consequence. Beset by injuries at certain points in the season, they’ve struggled at times as a result (clearly their position now shows the quality they do have). Far better, surely, to have a more balanced squad?

Onto other aspects, I think it’s wrong to say the club isn’t pursuing means of growing the gate and the business. There’s an awful lot being done on the corporate side - witness the number of events Cueto is at with a couple of squad members promoting the club as an example - whilst you’ve had the 100 club launch too. I’m not entirely sure, but isn’t that free buses put on for member clubs if they commit to 50 tickets for a match? Dimes has a clear vision for strong ties with local clubs who send fleets of buses to home games.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
StalyShark (IP Logged)
13 April, 2018 00:15
Although we would all love the signing of RJVR and a Jesse Kriel with the arrival of L James and Redpath the signing of Kriel seems to be the most utilitarian. Yes the Lions have used RJVR on the wing but he's largely a 12. Kriel seems to cover 15, wings and 13. With only JOC and Byron at 15 next year, as much as I liked RJVR Kriel seems to be a more "new Sale" signing. Dimes and Orange please give us both though!

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Crutch (IP Logged)
13 April, 2018 17:04
I disagree. We're crying out for a first choice 12.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
MartWhit (IP Logged)
13 April, 2018 17:56
I'm with crutch here. RJvR just seemed to complete our backline, and I'd gladly pay top dollar to embed him there for a while.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
yukon (IP Logged)
13 April, 2018 18:07
Quote:
Crutch
I disagree. We're crying out for a first choice 12.

For me everything, and I mean everything, has to go into signing JRVR. Kriel would be a fantastic signing but Rohan would take us to the next level.

If we can’t get Rohan then we should go large after another, established international centre with a bit of “bosh”- Te’o for example

 
Re: Marquee Signing
thekeg (IP Logged)
13 April, 2018 18:14
Te’o has said he’s seeing out his Worcester contract

 
Re: Marquee Signing
StalyShark (IP Logged)
13 April, 2018 18:54
I’ve waxed lyrical about RJVR on here and he worked so well. I was saying I could see us going for Kriel over RJVR if we could only have one due to his versatility.

 
Re: Marquee Signing
Marconi (IP Logged)
13 April, 2018 21:10
What a difference a year makes!

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