rugbyunion
Latest News:

Opinions expressed on this message board are solely those of the individual author. No endorsement of such opinions by the editors, Sportnetwork or Sale Sharks can or should be inferred.


England Team v Barbarians
25 May, 2018 11:15
Curry starts at 7 with Denny and Josh on the bench.

Brown on the wing = baffling. Francis plays but Cips on the bench??

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ale shark (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 11:27
Bonkers. Pleased to see Daly at 15 but what possible merit is there in playing Brown on the wing?

If England fans weren't staring to get worried about Jones before then they should be now.

No place for Jono Ross

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 11:31
Presumably Cips will replace him on the wing?!! Or maybe Beaumont can play on the wing.
Like the side apart from that, and Iím yet to be convinced Francis is an international quality player.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
23Shark (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 11:35
Mad team selection, feel really sorry for Denny

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
25 May, 2018 11:43
Why not give Jono a run - he knows all about what Robshaw can and canít do

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
2007dwain (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 11:55
What is the point is Denny continuously being in the training squad if he doesnít get on the pitch. At least he is on the bench I guess but Brown over him on the wing!

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ale shark (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 11:56
Quote:
Newcastle under Lyme RUFC Shark
Why not give Jono a run - he knows all about what Robshaw can and canít do

Probably a cynical attempt to get some Quins fans in, likewise for Brownís inclusion. Can't think of any other reason.

Ashton first try scorer?

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Flumpty (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 14:57
Mike Brown on the wing - he really must have some serious dirt about Yoda.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
camshark (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 15:36
Brown on the wing .... really ???? And when did he last start professionally in that position . Fast loosing confidence in EJ, muddled thinking over the last 12 months.
Team not picked on form , dangerous . Itís a ba baís game why not pick the club form 9/10 Robson /Cips ?

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
madders (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 16:01
Maybe the thinking is that he can give them both a bit of time, to have a look, and then swap them to their more normal position, without having to use a replacement.

Surely though, this is the match to experiment more, and have a better look at those you haven't seen enough of yet..

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 16:11
Wingers play more like full backs now so itís not crazy in principle. Brown will do all the defensive stuff well which gets overlooked.

Still donít get it though.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
camshark (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 17:03
Brown is nailed on starting full back in Japan in Ejís mind.
He will be 34 when the World Cup starts, and Daly will probably be back up 15. Brown has 70+ caps, what more is there to be learnt about Browns strengths/weaknesses?
Itís a ba baís game , a dozen games from the World Cup kick off. EJ needs at least two players who can cover every position on the pitch. I just donít get Brown,Youngís , Ford starting this match, they are all on the plane to Japan, and will get game time in SA..

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Yareet (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 18:55
Quote:
ale shark
Quote:
Newcastle under Lyme RUFC Shark
Why not give Jono a run - he knows all about what Robshaw can and canít do

Probably a cynical attempt to get some Quins fans in, likewise for Brownís inclusion. Can't think of any other reason.

Ashton first try scorer?

Seriously? You canít think of any other reason? At at all?

How about this. Heís trying Daly at 15. Many people have clamoured for a back up to Brown. It seems Daly is the option in the absence of Watson.

If the Day experiment goes wrong, Jones would burn a substitution by bringing Brown (or whoever) on. itís much easier to switch Brown and Daly into their more usual positions.

Could that be a reason?

No, youíre right. Itís to get Quins fans in the ground.

As for Robshaw, neither the first choice captain (Harley) nor the second choice (Farrell) is available.

Jonesí track record has been to appoint Robshaw and Ford as co-captains. Heís continued with this tactic but itís just to get Quins fans in.

Jesus some of us have chips.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
25 May, 2018 23:35
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
ale shark
Quote:
Newcastle under Lyme RUFC Shark
Why not give Jono a run - he knows all about what Robshaw can and canít do

Probably a cynical attempt to get some Quins fans in, likewise for Brownís inclusion. Can't think of any other reason.

Ashton first try scorer?

If the Day experiment goes wrong, Jones would burn a substitution by bringing Brown (or whoever) on. itís much easier to switch Brown and Daly into their more usual positions.

Could that be a reason?


I thought he had explicitly stated that he wanted to have a look at Cips at 15 as well? Why on earth he isn't starting Cips at 15 with Daly on the wing? Then you have the option at half time to move Cips to 10, Daly to full back and bring on Denny.

At the end of the day, the result is largely irrelevant and it should be an ideal opportunity to look at all sorts of options in match conditions

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ale shark (IP Logged)
26 May, 2018 06:58
Yareet - itís a non cap game against the barbarians. Playing Daly at 15 is not an experiment that might go wrong, heís played a significant amount of time there, more than Brown on the wing.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Yareet (IP Logged)
26 May, 2018 07:04
Quote:
ale shark
Yareet - itís a non cap game against the barbarians. Playing Daly at 15 is not an experiment that might go wrong, heís played a significant amount of time there, more than Brown on the wing.

Daly has played 15 but not so much for Eddie.

Regardless of what we think of the selection my point is that it is preposterous to say that the only reason one can think of that Brown has been picked over Denny is ďa cynical attempt to get some Quins fans inĒ.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ale shark (IP Logged)
26 May, 2018 09:25
Well, that's the only logical reason I can think of. Your reason makes less sense to me as it is unnecessarily cautious in non-cap game. Had the game been in Manchester I think we'd have been surprised had Denny not started, likewise Ross over Robshaw.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
26 May, 2018 10:25
Iíd love to be a fly on the wall when someone tells Eddie heís picking player x due to the geography of the stadium.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
samlee99 (IP Logged)
26 May, 2018 11:36
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
ale shark
Yareet - itís a non cap game against the barbarians. Playing Daly at 15 is not an experiment that might go wrong, heís played a significant amount of time there, more than Brown on the wing.

Daly has played 15 but not so much for Eddie.

Regardless of what we think of the selection my point is that it is preposterous to say that the only reason one can think of that Brown has been picked over Denny is ďa cynical attempt to get some Quins fans inĒ.

Exactly. It's amazing that some people actually put such nonsense in a post that can be read by one and all.

Even more amazing that they then try to defend it!

(But it's good to have something to laugh at).

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
26 May, 2018 14:11
It looks as if the rugby is going the same way as the cricket.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Yareet (IP Logged)
26 May, 2018 21:39
Quote:
ale shark
Well, that's the only logical reason I can think of. Your reason makes less sense to me as it is unnecessarily cautious in non-cap game. Had the game been in Manchester I think we'd have been surprised had Denny not started, likewise Ross over Robshaw.

The *only logical* reason?

Itís neither the only reason (Iíve gjven you another) nor logical.

To me, Eddie gives the impression that he wants to win... everything. He selects a team best suited to do so and (Iíd guess) couldnít give a ratís ass if there were 3 people watching.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ale shark (IP Logged)
26 May, 2018 22:36
Fair enough, itís just a wasted opportunity to have a look at a couple of other players. England are losing semi finalists at best in next years World Cup if players like Brown and Robshaw arenít going to be challenged.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Flumpty (IP Logged)
27 May, 2018 10:50
Quote:
ale shark
Fair enough, itís just a wasted opportunity to have a look at a couple of other players. England are losing semi finalists at best in next years World Cup if players like Brown and Robshaw arenít going to be challenged.

Yoda will take the rugby world by storm today with his inspired subs - Beaumont on at 10 (where he used to play, I believe) and Cips at Tight Head Prop.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
MikeGC (IP Logged)
27 May, 2018 13:33
Quote:
Flumpty
Quote:
ale shark
Fair enough, itís just a wasted opportunity to have a look at a couple of other players. England are losing semi finalists at best in next years World Cup if players like Brown and Robshaw arenít going to be challenged.

Yoda will take the rugby world by storm today with his inspired subs - Beaumont on at 10 (where he used to play, I believe) and Cips at Tight Head Prop.

Beaumont's Dad certainly played in the backs (at fullback against Racing Club De Burnage)

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Flumpty (IP Logged)
27 May, 2018 15:57
Biggest cheer of the afternoon as Brown was subbed off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/05/2018 16:39 by Flumpty.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
WiganSaler (IP Logged)
27 May, 2018 17:16
We all know Chris Ashton's face doesn't fit at HQ but it's just been announced he has been Baaaaaaad from Twickers forever ;-)



--------------------------------------------------
Wigan "Home for the Bewildered"

Fully paid up member of the LSSSSC.
"Long Suffering Sale Sharks Supporters Club"

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
27 May, 2018 17:56
Is "having a look at other options" in any way a valid notion for a barbarians style rugby match?
I would suggest not. Test match rugby is a world away from Champagne rugby.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/05/2018 19:10 by H's Dad....

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
camshark (IP Logged)
27 May, 2018 17:59
Ripped apart by a makeshift ba baís team. I appreciate itís a scratch England but up to seven of these players could start in the first World Cup match in Japan.
Lessons learnt ? Cips is not a full back and must be played at 10. Robshaw one game too many this season , chance to see Jonio at 6 missed, more physicality needed at 12/13 England were blown away. Whilst I still think Mike Brown can offer something defensively at 15, he is not a winger and was badly exposed for pace, missed opportunity to see Denny. get real game time . Leadership on the pitch missing ( not suggesting every try should be celebrated Ba Ba style, but where was the on field communication coming from?). Our hooker had a decent run out as did Curry and Wilson from the bench, other positives ( other than Ford chasing down Splash) hard to find.
Is the 63 points conceded the highest at Twickenham ?

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ale shark (IP Logged)
27 May, 2018 18:33
Quote:
Flumpty
Biggest cheer of the afternoon as Brown was subbed off.

Must have been all the extra Quins fans who turned up to watch him.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
27 May, 2018 19:55
Quote:
camshark
Is the 63 points conceded the highest at Twickenham ?

Yes



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
28 May, 2018 01:13
Just watching the fries. Chris Robshaw appears to have had the worst game in rugby history. Heís directly responsible for about 50 points.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ale shark (IP Logged)
28 May, 2018 07:16
Quote:
clutch
Just watching the fries. Chris Robshaw appears to have had the worst game in rugby history. Heís directly responsible for about 50 points.

Brown made 2m and missed 40% of his tackles though so itís a close one. I shudder to think what might have happened should England not have benefitted from their excellent club form, their +130 caps and their leadership qualities.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
28 May, 2018 08:30
Entertaining game though...

Was Lobbe wearing Sale socks there? Didn't look like Toulon?

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ashtonshark (IP Logged)
28 May, 2018 08:57
They don't look like socks from his Sale days. Had a search online and they look like they could be from his first club in Argentina, Liceo Naval

So lucky to have seen such a legend play at Sale. Only pipped by JR as the best player I've ever seen in a Sale search imo



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/05/2018 08:58 by ashtonshark.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
28 May, 2018 12:09
Closely followed by Bryon Hayward.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
28 May, 2018 14:12
.......or Byron Wayward.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
ashtonshark (IP Logged)
28 May, 2018 17:03
Les Bone in 3rd on my list(Sm8)

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 06:41
You saw Les Bone PLAY?



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Flumpty (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 08:11
Quote:
shaftesbury shark
Entertaining game though...
Was Lobbe wearing Sale socks there? Didn't look like Toulon?

The game was a real pleasure to watch - I imagine that attack coaches were salivating and defensive coaches were in dispair !

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 08:45
Good game to watch!

Always tricky to play the Barbarians but a win would have been expected so prob not the best of starts for the SA tour.

Robshaw just looked massively off the pace, he's never been quick and either a combo of lots of rugby plus a bit of age is starting to show. Brown has just never had pace so why he was on the wing is beyond me.

Thought the hooker played well, plus Francis and Ford was good. Curry was just great as he ever is, Denny barely got the ball but when he did just showed his pace. Cips was good - it's going to be a bit of a headache working out how to get him in the team.

I have a bit of a horrible feeling that Jones will start with the same old starters against SA and we don't get a the XV that needs to be on the starting field till the 3rd Test - really think we need to move on from Robshaw/Brown in particular. More pace in the backrow is just an absolute necessity now.

Nice to see Ashton doing well - forgot how good he was at just tracking the ball.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Flumpty (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 09:29
Post match, I enjoyed reading some of the blurb about the BaaBaas - "The loss is all the more painful to take given that the Barbarians trained just three times together Ė and spent the majority of the week on the famed Baa-Baas nights out" and "ďSo I said if Iím coming I need to bring Jonathan Thomas and my analysis guy and he was key because I knew even though they might be half-cut in the morning they could still see the pictures.Ē

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
29 May, 2018 11:28
Thanks for the tip on Splashton scoring first. The lobster & champagne were both excellent.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 12:47
Not sure we should be binning Robshaw and Brown based on 1 performance. Brown is still very solid at 15, and Robshaw was one of England's better players in a disappointing 6 nations.

Having said that, they, along with other senior players can't be far away from the axe. I can't see us getting much out of the SA tour. If it is 3-0 to SA, then we simply can't continue with the same group of core players, going into the world cup.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 14:19
It's not really based on 1 performance.

Brown in particular offers very little in attack however is solid in defense under a high ball. His place is there for the taking - it was really annoying that Haley decided to have a really inconsistent season and has now gone to try and play for Ireland - what a joke that is...I saw someone on twitter (Guardian rugby review) I think referring to the silliness of it all.

For Robshaw - I just can't see him at the world cup having much impact - when you have someone like Tom Curry running about all the place it just seems common sense to quicker back rows with high skill sets, shame the Wasps lad was injured (Willis?) would have been good to see how he gets on.

My point being that we may as well use the SA tour to see who can make the starting XV for the World Cup - instead of approaching the world cup, dropping players and bringing in new ones.

Last point on Robshaw - he could probably do with a summer off rather than being on what's going to be a very tough tour.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 15:28
I agree with all that but Not sure Brown offers very little is fair. Heís been Englandís player of the season a few years ago offering a lot going forward. Admittedly that was a while ago and heís 32 but we there is hardly an abundance of 15s in the English club game. Most on here agree Haley isnít international quality. Goode isnít rated, Daley doesnít play there for Wasps and Watson is a no no for me. The fact that Cips is down as full back cover says it all.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
29 May, 2018 15:56
Quote:
If it is 3-0 to South Africa

..er.. when it is 3-0 to South Africa



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Crutch (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 17:16
Robshaw shouldn't have been playing since the last World Cup...

Apart from under Woodward, England have always been appalling at preparing for the next World Cup and are always too focused on the next tour/tournament.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 17:57
Robshaw is 31. That argument doesnít stack up in terms of age. Ability wise, heís been very good for Jones as well.
Woodward had loads of similarly aged people in 2003. Mind you we were past our best in 03!!!

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Crutch (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 20:00
I disagree. Robshaw was poor at the last World Cup and had no potential to improve between then and the next one.

Since then it's 3 years worth of opportunities missed to give other players a chance.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
29 May, 2018 21:53
Everyone was poor that World Cup and he has improved since then. Look at the resurgence of Haskell the last few years. Itís a fine balance between binning everyone and starting afresh, and selecting enough experienced heads to help bring the younger players on and increase the chances of winning games, especially in the short term. It was working very well before this seasons debacle, and the reasons behind the ďdownfallĒ are more complex then picking the likes of Robshaw and Brown.

Iím not convinced Robshaw is the best 6, but heís got way too much credit to be kicked under the bus after one albeit awful performance. As ever the balance of the back row is more important than the component parts, and the continual absence of Billy is the bigger issue. Robshaw is also a key leader and by all accounts a great guy, and that is very difficult to measure. Heís bounced back from the shambles of the World Cup admirably. Heís also, by all accounts been Englandís most consistent player in a largely successful period.

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
Yareet (IP Logged)
30 May, 2018 06:40
Quote:
clutch
Everyone was poor that World Cup and he has improved since then. Look at the resurgence of Haskell the last few years. Itís a fine balance between binning everyone and starting afresh, and selecting enough experienced heads to help bring the younger players on and increase the chances of winning games, especially in the short term. It was working very well before this seasons debacle, and the reasons behind the ďdownfallĒ are more complex then picking the likes of Robshaw and Brown.
Iím not convinced Robshaw is the best 6, but heís got way too much credit to be kicked under the bus after one albeit awful performance. As ever the balance of the back row is more important than the component parts, and the continual absence of Billy is the bigger issue. Robshaw is also a key leader and by all accounts a great guy, and that is very difficult to measure. Heís bounced back from the shambles of the World Cup admirably. Heís also, by all accounts been Englandís most consistent player in a largely successful period.

Put far more eloquently than I could

 
Re: England Team v Barbarians
clutch (IP Logged)
30 May, 2018 08:04
Really?!! First time anyone has said that to me


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?