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De Klerk with SAfrica
04 July, 2018 21:25
I’m reading lots of stuff about Faf missing a large proportion of next season so I thought it warranted a new thread.

Having done a quick Google the Rugby Championship runs from 16 August- 6 October. Then there are autumn internationals.

I know permission has already been granted for him to play in the Championship. The same applies to Le Roux but not Vermeulen who I think will be in Japan.

Do you think Sale might request / insist he misses some/ all of the Autumn Tests so in theory we only lose him for September and part of October?

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
clutch (IP Logged)
04 July, 2018 21:30
Not sure that will be in our best interests.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Olyy (IP Logged)
04 July, 2018 21:42
I don't think we will, we've always been pretty accommodating with players wanting to play internationals (Dimes campaigning for the PRL to allow peel to play for the barbarians for example)
Plus we need to keep him sweet - If we start putting limits on his international career I'm sure there's a dozen other clubs who would love to sign him and let him play as much international rugby as he wants.


It's a bad situation to be in, especially as he'll need some rest when he does return from international duty, But that's the price you pay for signing world class players.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
ale shark (IP Logged)
04 July, 2018 22:03
Quote:
Olyy
If we start putting limits on his international career I'm sure there's a dozen other clubs who would love to sign him and let him play as much international rugby as he wants.

Surely he did that himself when he signed a contract to play outside SA knowing it would make him ineligible for selection!

Given that there’s unlikely to be any form of compensation from the SARFU I hope there is a clause in the players contracts to say they take a %%% wage cut in the periods they’re away from their employer, he’ll be getting about £100K whilst away from Sale if his contract rumours are correct.

Imagine your employer paying you your full wages whilst you went to work for another company for 5 months.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
05 July, 2018 03:32
Surely he signed in the full knowledge that it DIDN'T make him ineligible for selection this year, with the rules relaxed pre World Cup. We certainly signed him in the full knowledge that he had international ambitions. I doubt very much that there would be a wage reduction for call ups in a contract (though it is of course possible) rather that the remuneration negotiated is done so considering the risk of losing the player for a certain period of time



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Yareet (IP Logged)
05 July, 2018 06:21
Quote:
ale shark
Quote:
Olyy
If we start putting limits on his international career I'm sure there's a dozen other clubs who would love to sign him and let him play as much international rugby as he wants.

Surely he did that himself when he signed a contract to play outside SA knowing it would make him ineligible for selection!

Given that there’s unlikely to be any form of compensation from the SARFU I hope there is a clause in the players contracts to say they take a %%% wage cut in the periods they’re away from their employer, he’ll be getting about £100K whilst away from Sale if his contract rumours are correct.

Imagine your employer paying you your full wages whilst you went to work for another company for 5 months.

But the corollary to that situation would be that Rhys Webb should be paid more by Toulon. He was signed as a current Wales international but the rules were then changed so he’s ineligible. I can’t see that Boudjellal agreed that because Webb’s available more, he should be paid more.

Come contract re-negotiation time, of course, the situation changes. As it would with Faf.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
05 July, 2018 07:47
Does anyone know if Piet van Zyl has found a new club after Irish’s relegation? 3 month deal could be an idea for Faf cover.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2018 07:58 by StalyShark.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
05 July, 2018 07:50
I suspect that most players contracts are a mix of basic salary, appearance money, bonus incentives, endorsements etc

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
ale shark (IP Logged)
05 July, 2018 08:52
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Surely he signed in the full knowledge that it DIDN'T make him ineligible for selection this year, with the rules relaxed pre World Cup.

Apologies, I didn't realise it was the case that SA's policy was already going to be relaxed in the year leading up to a WC at the point at which Faf signed, I thought it was similar to England’s policy and was then amended to only exclude overseas players with less than 30 caps from selections (Faf had 11 when he joined).

I thought Rassie Erasmus reversed the policy when he was appointed earlier this year.
[www.bbc.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2018 09:14 by ale shark.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
dickiedudeles (IP Logged)
05 July, 2018 11:17
I don't think we have much say in if he plays or not, his release would be covered under regulation 9 for the championship and any autumn internationals not scheduled outside the window.

Outside the window we're not supposed to release to any union that doesn't have a collective bargain with PRL (Like England do). Saints did it with North for Wales and got a fine from PRL every time (I think Wales vs SA was outside and Faf didn't feature there, not sure if SA have any more of them this year).

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Barend (IP Logged)
05 July, 2018 18:20
Piet van Zyl has signed for Stade Francais.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
05 July, 2018 20:22
[quote Barend]Piet van Zyl has signed for Stade Francais.[/quotae]

Ah. Thanks. Ross Cronje for a Lions reunion?

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
NorthernMaori (IP Logged)
06 July, 2018 10:56
Watching the Reds v Rebels match, I would happily take Michael Ruru on short term loan. He is unlikely to be called up to the Wallabies but is a decent all-round 9 with smart, sharp distribution.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 July, 2018 12:05
Quote:
NorthernMaori
Watching the Reds v Rebels match, I would happily take Michael Ruru on short term loan. He is unlikely to be called up to the Wallabies but is a decent all-round 9 with smart, sharp distribution.

Problem with the antipodeans is that you then couldn't play both JOC and Bryn at the same time.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
NorthernMaori (IP Logged)
06 July, 2018 14:23
Seeing as it's unlikely that JOC will be fit for the start then that could be ok

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
WhatKatySaid (IP Logged)
10 July, 2018 11:12
It's a big shame that we never got Ben Spencer when the chance was there. Would have been a great backup!

JOC can play 9 but I've never been a fan of playing people out of positions.. it's not Sunday league it's a pro sport.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
MikeGC (IP Logged)
10 July, 2018 12:24
Quote:
WhatKatySaid
It's a big shame that we never got Ben Spencer when the chance was there. Would have been a great backup!
JOC can play 9 but I've never been a fan of playing people out of positions.. it's not Sunday league it's a pro sport.

I don't think that there was ever any chance of Ben playing at the Sharks (personal comment via a family member)

edit - spelling mistook



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2018 14:45 by MikeGC.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
10 July, 2018 15:30
Iirc, at the bbq , dimes indicated that Faf will be available at the start of the season and his autumn international duties will be mostly restricted to the games in uk and Ireland ....

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Crutch (IP Logged)
10 July, 2018 19:19
Great news if that's the case

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
10 July, 2018 20:39
Yep, he commented on the club’s good relationships with international coaches (bar EJ) and suggested we not be too worried about Faf being absent for a long time.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
MikeGC (IP Logged)
10 July, 2018 20:50
Quote:
Grumpy Old Shark
Iirc, at the bbq , dimes indicated that Faf will be available at the start of the season and his autumn international duties will be mostly restricted to the games in uk and Ireland ....

In the autumn they are due to play England, Scotland, Wales and France so he's in a winner there

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
10 July, 2018 22:24
Quote:
MikeGC
Quote:
Grumpy Old Shark
Iirc, at the bbq , dimes indicated that Faf will be available at the start of the season and his autumn international duties will be mostly restricted to the games in uk and Ireland ....

In the autumn they are due to play England, Scotland, Wales and France so he's in a winner there

F his involvement in the Championship is minimal, that is a massive bonus.... imhuo

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
ale shark (IP Logged)
10 July, 2018 22:39
Quote:
Pappje Shark
Yep, he commented on the club’s good relationships with international coaches (bar EJ) and suggested we not be too worried about Faf being absent for a long time.

Did he say he might be out for 2-3 weeks? (Sm100)

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
06 August, 2018 10:09
Faf has been named in the SA Rugby Championship Squad. Looks like we will start the season with Cliff at9

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
ale shark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 10:35
SA's fixtures run from 18th August to 06th October then 02nd November to 24th November.

We have Euro Challenge fixtures on 13th & 20th October and Prem Cup on 27th October.

Doubt we'll see him any time before the Bath game on 01st December.

Great.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 10:37
Quote:
Newcastle under Lyme RUFC Shark
Faf has been named in the SA Rugby Championship Squad. Looks like we will start the season with Cliff at9

Strange that he's been back in training with us this past week then.
I reckon we'll bring in cover. Probably Cronje.

Edit: Probably not Cronje as he's in the squad too! Time for Wilf to be in the form of his life!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2018 11:50 by StalyShark.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
06 August, 2018 16:12
Cronje named in same SA squad as Faf !!! JB reckons we are announcing a 9 from the Lions tomorrow. My money is on Nic Groom. Experienced Prem operator with no international ties

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 16:14
Quote:
Newcastle under Lyme RUFC Shark
Cronje named in same SA squad as Faf !!! JB reckons we are announcing a 9 from the Lions tomorrow. My money is on Nic Groom. Experienced Prem operator with no international ties

Snap. Can't remember seeing him play much however.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
06 August, 2018 20:09
Nic Groom was pretty much Saints first choice last season, getting more starts than Reinach. I did notice that he missed the end of the SR season with a broken hand, so that might rule out a move to us ?

Interestingly SA have named 4 scrum halves in their RC Squad. Could there be an arrangement that Faf only plays a couple of games either earlier or later in the competition???

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 21:04
Groom fractured his hand three weeks ago so that looks unlikely too! Cronje and Faf to split their time between SA and us maybe? I hope someone knows what is going on!

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
06 August, 2018 21:35
I’ve been tweeting Talk Rugby an SA commentator. He mentioned that SARFU had been blocking moves to Sale ( assume he means Kitschoff et al) and conjectures it may be Groom

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Olyy (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 22:51
Depending on the severity of the fracture he could easily be fit for the start of the season

Edit: Just read that it was bad enough to require surgery, so maybe not.
17th of July he injured it, 9th September first game of the season - month and a half seems a little tight to come back from that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2018 22:55 by Olyy.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 14:33
Let's hope that this is reciprocated with Faf:

[www.rugbypass.com]

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Crutch (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 21:04
I think there must be a good chance, given comments about not worrying about Faf being away for a long time.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
08 August, 2018 21:16
The one silver lining is that if Faf comes back for the Rugby Championship week’s off he’ll be on the same time as us pretty much. Overnight flight in business class won’t be too bad a sleep. Better than Toumua and Polota-Nau coming back from down under anyway!

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Yareet (IP Logged)
09 August, 2018 14:26
Quote:
StalyShark
The one silver lining is that if Faf comes back for the Rugby Championship week’s off he’ll be on the same time as us pretty much. Overnight flight in business class won’t be too bad a sleep. Better than Toumua and Polota-Nau coming back from down under anyway!

Unless the game Faf returns from is away in Christchurch in which case he’ll be 13 hours out of sync.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
09 August, 2018 14:30
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
StalyShark
The one silver lining is that if Faf comes back for the Rugby Championship week’s off he’ll be on the same time as us pretty much. Overnight flight in business class won’t be too bad a sleep. Better than Toumua and Polota-Nau coming back from down under anyway!

Unless the game Faf returns from is away in Christchurch in which case he’ll be 13 hours out of sync.

Very true. Well spotted.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
clutch (IP Logged)
09 August, 2018 15:36
Faf often plays like he’s out of sync anyway.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
bg (IP Logged)
09 August, 2018 21:25
Quote:
StalyShark
Let's hope that this is reciprocated with Faf:
[www.rugbypass.com]

Wasps supporter comes in peace - Sale's and Faf's scenario matches that of WLR and Wasps. I suspect neither player expected to be called up to the SA squad and chose to move the NH to make a lot of money and experience something new.

All credit to Steve Diamond and Dai Young in embracing the fact they have players that SA want back. Erasmus seems like a decent bloke and will have likely organised a similar deal for Faf and Sale.

If anyone is brave enough.. take a look at tiggers board who have a similar situaton with Toomua who recently played a game in Oz outside of the international window. They are worried how PRL will view that and don't seem happy bunnies

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
10 August, 2018 02:26
I seem to remember PRL taking a dim view when we released, was it Dwayne Peel, or Mark Taylor?, for international duty outside the window. Bath were fined 60K last year for releasing Faletau



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
18 August, 2018 17:12
He's having a good game vs Argentina at the minute. Surprised he hasn't taken over kicking duties as pollard is 1 for 6 from the tee.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
18 August, 2018 23:03
Don't different rules apply outside the Premiership season?

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Crutch (IP Logged)
19 August, 2018 11:19
A try and 3 assists, lets hope any agreement we have for an early return is set in stone...

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
19 August, 2018 13:08
I see no reason to disbelieve GOS...
Quote:
Iirc, at the bbq , dimes indicated that Faf will be available at the start of the season and his autumn international duties will be mostly restricted to the games in uk and Ireland ....

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
emerging shark (IP Logged)
19 August, 2018 16:03
he was brilliant yesterday....

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Long Eaton Shark (IP Logged)
19 August, 2018 18:25
I was impressed with Steven Kitshoff when he came on. Some strong carries with the ball.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Long Eaton Shark (IP Logged)
19 August, 2018 18:25
I was impressed with Steven Kitshoff when he came on. Some strong carries with the ball.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
19 August, 2018 18:32
Quote:
Long Eaton Shark
I was impressed with Steven Kitshoff when he came on. Some strong carries with the ball.

So impressed, it was worth repeating......!!(Sm14)

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
23 August, 2018 21:08
Not very good at all:

[www.rugbypass.com]

No Ashton for the first six games, now no Faf either. At least lend us Cronje Rassie as you’re not picking him!

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
ale shark (IP Logged)
23 August, 2018 21:27
Says a lot about our league ambitions then if he's just happy to accept it. His last match for SA is the 6th of October. Our next league game after then isn't until 17th November.

With Faf, Ashton, RjvR and JOC missing at least the first quarter of the season it's looking pretty bleak already. Bristol have a number of distinctly winnable games in the opening set of six. Lucky we didn’t qualify of Champions Cup after all.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
28 August, 2018 08:59
Shame we couldn’t work something out here with Alby Matthewson:


[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
28 August, 2018 09:08
To ask the obvious - if Will Cliff gets injured whose our backup 9?

Be interesting to see the bench for Sat's game at Quins....especially at 9 and 2

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
28 August, 2018 09:10
I think Sturgess is a year ahead of Gus Warr atm and will bench. Nield will be bench hooker with Langdon in reserve.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Flumpty (IP Logged)
28 August, 2018 10:06
Tom Brady on bench to cover all front row positions, SH & FB ?

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
30 August, 2018 13:21
Francois Louw is back for Bath and Le Roux will be back soon or is already for Wasps. So, why don’t we have Faf back? Have we just thought it’s better to allow him to play for SA and keep him beyond his three year contract? Or have we not been able to persuade SA as well as others? If it is the former then why have our advances for other players (Kitschoff and especially Cronje who isn’t playing) been supposedly knocked back?

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
MikeGC (IP Logged)
30 August, 2018 13:33
Quote:
Or have we not been able to persuade SA as well as others?[/quote

that would be my guess, or never thought to ask ??

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
dinogyro (IP Logged)
30 August, 2018 16:16
I am very disappointed that I won't be seeing Faf at the Worcester game. He's my personal favorite. He brings such a lot of excitement to the game, a real showman.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
b_sting (IP Logged)
06 September, 2018 08:58
Interesting post here about the whole international selection issue with the Rugby Champ/Prem etc. Mentions Faf compared to Toomua/Polota-Nau. Site




[edit to fix hyperlink - MB]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2018 12:53 by Cap'n Major Bloodnok.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
franknfurter (IP Logged)
07 September, 2018 05:16
Plaudits go to Gloucester and Sale.

Whilst everyone wants 'their team' to field its best 15, player welfare must be paramount.

I don't think sanctions or punishment is the answer.

What is needed is World Rugby just to say NO.

International players selected for International duty is just that.

Suck it up and live with it.

Incidentally, what is the situation with Pro 14 and T14 clubs?

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
shaftesbury shark (IP Logged)
07 September, 2018 10:17
Very interesting article.

Also interesting to read that "Each of the players recalled this weekend either lost or got injured."

I know Sale also lost but I am sure in the long term it is much better to just release the player to international duty and not make them travel back and forth. Hopefully later in the season the advantages will be clearer.

And maybe the increased possibility for younger players to seize opportunities can also pay off in the long run.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
09 September, 2018 18:58
Talk pre game in Sharkquee was that Faf was coming back early from SA to us. I thought Cliff was decent today but Faf is a real catalyst for the whole team and crowd. Get him back now!

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
MikeGC (IP Logged)
09 September, 2018 23:50
Quote:
Newcastle under Lyme RUFC Shark
Talk pre game in Sharkquee was that Faf was coming back early from SA to us. I thought Cliff was decent today but Faf is a real catalyst for the whole team and crowd. Get him back now!

On the TV they expect him to be available in November

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
10 September, 2018 05:12
SA playing in autumn internationals every week in November so seems unlikely....

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
10 September, 2018 05:33
The chatter during commentary was that they would keep him for whole of the Championship, but let us have him during the AI's



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
ale shark (IP Logged)
10 September, 2018 07:03
Quote:
PoyntonShark
The chatter during commentary was that they would keep him for whole of the Championship, but let us have him during the AI's

.... when the league takes a 5 week break.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
16 September, 2018 19:19
Just reading the match report from the game at Sandy Park in The Sunday Times and it mentions that Faf turned his ankle in the SA game yesterday suggesting he’s injured. Can’t say I noticed that when he was celebrating at the end of the game??

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
StalyShark (IP Logged)
16 September, 2018 19:53
He played the full 80 and kept Cronje on the bench.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
MikeGC (IP Logged)
16 September, 2018 23:04
Quote:
StalyShark
He played the full 80 and kept Cronje on the bench.

injured during the celebrations ?

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Rick_95 (IP Logged)
17 September, 2018 13:11
Reliable source told me he’ll be back today or tomorrow. Not clear on whether that’s just for the week break in the Rugby Championship (so Wasps match) or for good.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Yareet (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 08:00
Quote:
Rick_95
Reliable source told me he’ll be back today or tomorrow. Not clear on whether that’s just for the week break in the Rugby Championship (so Wasps match) or for good.

Given the article previously mentioned and the praise given to Sale and Gloucester, I’d be disappointed if we’ve brought Faf back for one game. NZ to UK to SA is a trek.

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
18 September, 2018 12:42
Quote:
Rick_95
Reliable source told me he’ll be back today or tomorrow. Not clear on whether that’s just for the week break in the Rugby Championship (so Wasps match) or for good.

We heard the same at the Wuss game

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
clutch (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 12:46
Play him!!

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 19:23
Has he packed a couple of props in his suitcase?

 
Re: De Klerk with SAfrica
Barend (IP Logged)
18 September, 2018 20:17
It seems that South Africa have released some players ahead of the weekend. This includes 8 for Currie Cup duty.

And two overseas players.....Francois Louw and Wille le Roux.

No mention of Faf from the Springbok's Twitter.


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