rugbyunion
Latest News:

Opinions expressed on this message board are solely those of the individual author. No endorsement of such opinions by the editors, Sportnetwork or Sale Sharks can or should be inferred.


Props
05 August, 2018 09:20
Shark Tank boys are saying on Twitter that SA RFU have blocked Sale moves for 3 SA props, one of them being Kitschoff.

I asked the question whether the players could force through the move if they so wished ? Surely the SA RFU would have wanted to keep the likes of Mostert etc? I guess it could be because these boys are mid contact ??

 
Re: Props
thekeg (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 09:21
I was thinking exactly the same, I do t know what mechanism they have for blocking the move

 
Re: Props
stevene (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 10:29
Of the three kitschoff is a pure loosehead. Oosthuizen is a tight head but was converted from loosehead. Nyakane is a loosehead but can play tighthead.

kitschoff is in the final year of his contract. I think nyakane maybe out of contract, not sure about oosthuzien. However the block maybe the threat of not playing at the RWC if they leave now.

 
Re: Props
MikeGC (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 12:09
Quote:
thekeg
I was thinking exactly the same, I do t know what mechanism they have for blocking the move

Easy, "if you go to England (risking injury) you can forget your chance of a Springbok shirt" it would stop most players with ambition



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2018 12:10 by MikeGC.

 
Re: Props
thekeg (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 12:49
Quote:
MikeGC
Quote:
thekeg
I was thinking exactly the same, I do t know what mechanism they have for blocking the move

Easy, "if you go to England (risking injury) you can forget your chance of a Springbok shirt" it would stop most players with ambition

I get that, I just wondered if it meant something more formal/legal

 
Re: Props
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 12:55
We best have a viable Plan B. Just under a month playing Quins. Seems really bad to be in this position. If Harrison gets a bad injury weíll be up the creek.

 
Re: Props
thekeg (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 14:20
With Flynn out, who would be our reserve 1? Tarus or pope?

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 14:39
Quote:
thekeg
With Flynn out, who would be our reserve 1? Tarus or pope?

Tarus would be, though I donít think he played 1 for us at all last year (bench cover I remember). Pope isnít 21 yet and would probably get smashed by a decent 3.

 
Re: Props
StaffordShark (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 16:29
Quote:
thekeg
Quote:
MikeGC
Quote:
thekeg
I was thinking exactly the same, I do t know what mechanism they have for blocking the move

Easy, "if you go to England (risking injury) you can forget your chance of a Springbok shirt" it would stop most players with ambition

I get that, I just wondered if it meant something more formal/legal

If they are under contract then its fairly easy, they just don't release them. No obligation to.

 
Re: Props
Sharksladanddad (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 18:59
If this was Dimes plan for forwards this year it was at best stupid. Next year is a RWC year. No one with designs on being their will be released by their RFU. If all of this is really true then it was a really poor plan presumably based on the capture of Faf and Jono last season

Why on earth have we been going after backs all summer? 1 possibly 3rd choice forward signing all summer. Last year our backs were amongst the best in the league. OConnor is haleys replacement and Addison played so little we won't notice he's gone. So we have more or less the same back row as last year. It didn't need improvement particularly in the scheme of things. Meantime we lost almost every game we lost up Front. That's almost always the case in any game. We desperately need reinforcements in the pack and particularly the tight 5. Why are we 4 weeks from the start of the season without any major reinforcements? Bad management. Very bad management.
Also if we sign these 3 how does having maybe 8 to 10 of our best 15 being non EQPs affect their ability to be played. In Dimes we trust? Not a chance.

 
Re: Props
Crutch (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 19:21
Or...the SA policy even before the change was that overseas players could be selected in the year before the World Cup, so not necessarily such a crazy idea.

Plus, do you seriously think we've only started to try and sign forwards since tying up Ashton?? Or is it more likely that we've been trying all summer...honestly some of these comments on here assume that the management are complete imbeciles.

As I always say, let's see how it looks when the season starts before deciding how the recruitment has gone.

 
Re: Props
emerging shark (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 19:23
Get real... money talks in professional sports today....

 
Re: Props
05 August, 2018 19:49
Quote:
Crutch
Or...the SA policy even before the change was that overseas players could be selected in the year before the World Cup, so not necessarily such a crazy idea.
Plus, do you seriously think we've only started to try and sign forwards since tying up Ashton?? Or is it more likely that we've been trying all summer...honestly some of these comments on here assume that the management are complete imbeciles.

As I always say, let's see how it looks when the season starts before deciding how the recruitment has gone.

Agree. Some hints on Twitter that there may be announcements next week

 
Re: Props
buelligansmate (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 21:41
Quote:
Sharksladanddad
If this was Dimes plan for forwards this year it was at best stupid. Next year is a RWC year. No one with designs on being their will be released by their RFU. If all of this is really true then it was a really poor plan presumably based on the capture of Faf and Jono last season
Why on earth have we been going after backs all summer? 1 possibly 3rd choice forward signing all summer. Last year our backs were amongst the best in the league. OConnor is haleys replacement and Addison played so little we won't notice he's gone. So we have more or less the same back row as last year. It didn't need improvement particularly in the scheme of things. Meantime we lost almost every game we lost up Front. That's almost always the case in any game. We
desperately need reinforcements in the pack and particularly the tight 5. Why are we 4 weeks from the start of the season without any major reinforcements? Bad management. Very bad management.
Also if we sign these 3 how does having maybe 8 to 10 of our best 15 being non EQPs affect their ability to be played. In Dimes we trust? Not a chance.

At the open day Dimes stated that we were looking to sign 2 tight 5 forwards and we were in negotiation.

 
Re: Props
thekeg (IP Logged)
05 August, 2018 22:05
Letís hope the 2 they were in negotiator with arenít both being blocked....

 
Re: Props
MartWhit (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 09:53
Are any of you happy that, even IF we assume these signings will be made, the incoming players will likely be
non EQP
unrested after a full S14 season
have had no time in pre season to adjust to Sale/Premiership conditioning
had no time to work on the collective lineout & scrum skills to that we are tight and cohesive from the get go?

Its still 5 points available from game 1 to game 22. The first half dozen games arent friendlies to get to knwo each other.

Whether these players are good players or not, the uncertainty and timing of their arrival is massively sub optimal.

 
Re: Props
MartWhit (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 10:07
having said that, It does look like Flynn is very much into his rehab. I dont think he will ever be an exceptional talent, but I do think he's quite capable of doing a job at premiership level. He looks to have the requisite size and conditioning to push on from last year. I think he was unfairly handled last year in terms of gametime vs his performance when called upon.

Pope too. He looks to have tightened up physically in the past year. Probably needs more exposure to be anywhere close to premiership level, but he's always looked a handy scrummager even if other aspects of his game were not so strong.

What both need to show is the ability to defend the fringes with similar energy and high tackle completion rate that has made Ross & WGJ the preferred choices. We know Dimes believes front row play is becoming more about this and less about the set piece arts.

 
Re: Props
Crutch (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 10:11
Totally fair points, but if these players (assuming they sign) are better than ones we could attract who are EQP and available earlier then yes. Obviously better to have a full pre-season, but if they're signing for 2-3 years then better to have the quality over that period than get anyone in just because they're available earlier.

Were there any International standard EQP props available earlier this summer?

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 10:46
Were there any International standard EQP props available earlier this summer?[/quote]

None at loosehead afaik, unless you class Doran-Jones which I don't. Brookes at TH and Auterac who only looked at London clubs are the only ones I can think of.

 
Re: Props
MartWhit (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 11:59
A relatively thin market for Loose heads, but if you're really looking I think they could be found from premiership stocks.

Bath shed Auterac, who IMO is quite handy and our type of player. Probably quite afordable but as crutch said seemed to prefer London. They also acquired Noguera Paz.

Tongahuia left Bris.

Mulipola obvs.


Ben Franks left Irish to sign for Tigers. I also think a youngster like Ford Robinson could have been tempted away by a good offer.

Campese Maafu left Saints

Doran Jones
Biyi Alo

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 12:01
Quote:
MartWhit
A relatively thin market for Loose heads, but if you're really looking I think they could be found from premiership stocks.
Bath shed Auterac, who IMO is quite handy and our type of player. Probably quite afordable but as crutch said seemed to prefer London. They also acquired Noguera Paz.

Tongahuia left Bris.

Mulipola obvs.


Ben Franks left Irish to sign for Tigers. I also think a youngster like Ford Robinson could have been tempted away by a good offer.

Campese Maafu left Saints

Doran Jones
Biyi Alo

So no good viable EQP players then.

 
Re: Props
MartWhit (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 12:10
What?

except for Auterac, Alo, Ford Robinson & Doran Jones.
The rest may not be english, but are premiership attuned and proven.

Would I have liked a season from Ben Franks whilst Flynn and Pope look on? yes I would.
Muliopola would be an instant fan favourite had we acquired him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2018 12:12 by MartWhit.

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 12:17
Quote:
MartWhit
What?
except for Auterac, Alo, Ford Robinson & Doran Jones.
The rest may not be english, but are premiership attuned and proven.

Would I have liked a season from Ben Franks whilst Flynn and Pope look on? yes I would.
Muliopola would be an instant fan favourite had we acquired him.

Of the English ones only Auterac would be worthwhile for a top 4 team and he explicitly wanted to return home.
Franks wasn't the player he was and was a penalty machine last year.
Mulipola, yes but not EQP. Thin pickings.

 
Re: Props
MartWhit (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 12:27
just my opinion, but I think Franks will look a lot better in tigers front row than he looked last year. He may be getting on but he's only 34 and even if he's lost a yard, he was still a top notch All Black for a long time.

On the original point, if Dimes manages to snag Kitschoff or Oosthuizen on a 2 year deal or longer, the wait will be worthwhile. Nyakane, or a shorter deal and, IMO, we should have done something different. In the best Dimes traditions, he's gone for a high risk strategy which will either net us a good player at reasonable money or leave us rather up the creek facing a long season with success heavily reliant on the fitness on one man and with little choice in selection.

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 12:29
Franks has gone to Saints with Boyd.

 
Re: Props
MartWhit (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 12:33
sorry, meant to say saints. good spot. Its all the midlands to me.

 
Re: Props
stevene (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 13:16
Quote:
Sharksladanddad
If this was Dimes plan for forwards this year it was at best stupid. Next year is a RWC year. No one with designs on being their will be released by their RFU. If all of this is really true then it was a really poor plan presumably based on the capture of Faf and Jono last season
Why on earth have we been going after backs all summer? 1 possibly 3rd choice forward signing all summer. Last year our backs were amongst the best in the league. OConnor is haleys replacement and Addison played so little we won't notice he's gone. So we have more or less the same back row as last year. It didn't need improvement particularly in the scheme of things. Meantime we lost almost every game we lost up Front. That's almost always the case in any game. We desperately need reinforcements in the pack and particularly the tight 5. Why are we 4 weeks from the start of the season without any major reinforcements? Bad management. Very bad management.
Also if we sign these 3 how does having maybe 8 to 10 of our best 15 being non EQPs affect their ability to be played. In Dimes we trust? Not a chance.

really? so we didnt try and sign Mulipola before he went with the ex tigers connection at the falcons? or Cortes from bristol before he signed for Tigers? I suspect we have only gone down this route because of english based targets signing elsewhere.

why is having the same back row, albeit with a fit tom curry and sam moore a year older, something to moan about?

yes we are probably two to three players, tight five players, short of a squad we should be happy with. its not as if dimes and/or orange, havent acknowledged this even going into the offseason in April. fact is, as with lou reed, there is no point in signing bodies just for the sake of it (like cockerill did for tigers).

whats more it seems like you think its a case, like others with yarde, that signing ashton was either a distraction or a case of either/or. give management some credit that they can actually do more than one thing at once and pursue forward targets and sign ashton.

I cant believe I actually come on here and actually defend dimes, which I not inclined to do, but I find myself doing more and more. however some posts defy reasonable thought and logic. for the club with the smallest attendances in a northern outpost, we ain't doing too badly, and I am lot more positive about the club now than I was at the fag end of the Kennedy ownership. Christ we thought Mujati was a good signing back then.

 
Re: Props
stevene (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 13:17
Re Nyakane. perhaps the most realistic target for this season. interesting this was on a SA website a few days before the twitter post by the shark tank.

[therunnersports.com]

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 13:25
Nyakane would have been in the SA squad for their next few games if he wasnít injured though considering he started the 1st Test. If he does come will we be missing him too? Quite possibly.

 
Re: Props
ale shark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 13:44
O/T - with Ashton was there any hint of the RFU contributing towards his Toulon release fee? Given his instant inclusion back into the England set-up one might think there may have been a sweetener there for any club willing to pay his wages.

 
Re: Props
Olyy (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 13:59
Looks like Bath have signed the Lions loosehead Jacques van Rooyen

 
Re: Props
MartWhit (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 14:27
I suspect this is a terrible analogy, but ladanddad's point is probably summed up as simply not dealing with our pressing issues quickly and decisively. I dont think it really relates to multitasking, or any lack of.

We've got a nice race car chassis, and we've spent the summer painting it and polishing it, and it looks great, but unfortunately it still doesnt have an engine. So its not leaving the garage anytime soon. We're hoping the foreign engine supplier is reliable, but we have a race in 2 weeks time and we dont know if we'll be racing with a new V6 or flintstones style.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2018 14:29 by MartWhit.

 
Re: Props
thekeg (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 14:46
Quote:
Olyy
Looks like Bath have signed the Lions loosehead Jacques van Rooyen

Isnít he a 3?

 
Re: Props
Olyy (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 15:42
Started at loosehead in the SR final and has been drafted in to cover obanos year long injury.
Not sure if he's played tighthead in the past but he's going there as a #1

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 16:02
Very much doubt that we didn't have negotiations with him but it's Bath so they probably just chucked more money at him. More than we were willing to pay at least.

On another note, JB from eggchasers predicted an announcement of a signing of a Lions 9 tomorrow.

 
Re: Props
Yareet (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 16:06
Quote:
StalyShark

On another note, JB from eggchasers predicted an announcement of a signing of a Lions 9 tomorrow.


Ooh is it Conor Murray?

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 16:10
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
StalyShark

On another note, JB from eggchasers predicted an announcement of a signing of a Lions 9 tomorrow.


Ooh is it Conor Murray?

I'm sure he would love to play in our Premiership Cup games rather than rest all the time.

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 16:12
Although it was heavily hinted it was Cronje I wouldn't be surprised if it was Nick Groom returning to the Prem...

 
Re: Props
Ellastone Basking (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 16:35
And another prop signs for someone else.....money or not are we going to have to listen to Sale reel out the excuses and endure a season of nearly top 4 but finish lower!! Our backs will be playing off scraps!

 
Re: Props
IOL Shark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 22:21
I donít often post on here, but Iím finding the doom and gloom predictions for the coming season hard to understand. We hardly have a poor quality set of forwards and there has been little change to the squad in that department since the end of last season. Weíve lost TJ and Seymour, neither of whom played any significant part, and Aulika who (for me) was already on the decline and spent most matches on the bench. We also have brought in Jones and Phillips, who are decent squad players, and we have Curry and Beaumont available after significant time out injured.
To say the backs will live off scraps is laughable as we finished 4th in the try scoring chart, this being fed from the best lineout performance and one of the most successful scrums weíve seen in recent years. We have at the least the same standard of forwards for the coming season and an even better set of backs!
The only negative is that we were lucky in having Harrison in the form of his life, luckily (though wrongly in my opinion) overlooked by England and he got through the season injury free. It would be nice to see another 6, but the only priority for me is cover for Harrison. And whoís to say that isnít still in hand?

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
06 August, 2018 23:01
Iol, the concern rather than doom and gloom is that if Harrison gets injured (whatever higher power forbidl) we have an injured Flynn, Tarus who has never played a game for us on that side and a soon to be 21 year old Pope who isn't Ellis Genge despite being the same age. Thus the concern at the moment. It will be doom and gloom if the aforementioned happens and those options remain the same. Kitschoff however would solve that as I honestly believe that barring a Bathesque injury list we have enough options elsewhere in the pack.

 
Re: Props
M5 Shark (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 06:44
The front 3 is still a concern for me. We've signed some amazing backs but we need a good pack for them to thrive.
My worry is that Dimes has been saying the pack needs strengthening but cannot secure anyone. Why not? Money isn't an issue as far as i can make out from Mr O's comments. So presumably it is the club and the fact that high profile players want top flight European rugby

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 08:35
Other than buying more people out of contracts there's who is available and are good enough, reference the EQP props comments.

As an aside, Kitschoff was in the official Super Rugby starting XV just announced.

 
Re: Props
ale shark (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 10:17
Quote:
MartWhit
Are any of you happy that, even IF we assume these signings will be made, the incoming players will likely be
non EQP
unrested after a full S14 season
have had no time in pre season to adjust to Sale/Premiership conditioning
had no time to work on the collective lineout & scrum skills to that we are tight and cohesive from the get go?

Its still 5 points available from game 1 to game 22. The first half dozen games arent friendlies to get to knwo each other.

Whether these players are good players or not, the uncertainty and timing of their arrival is massively sub optimal.

Not really ideal but letís face it, we're desperate now. One front row injury no back up 9 and we'll struggle to finish above 10th regardless of the backs. At this stage literally any top-flight prop will do.

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 10:41
If our chosen ones fall through, at this stage just getting someone who can hold up a scrum and trot around not really doing much else might have to suffice. Championship players? Pro D2 bruisers just like Tigers have done?

 
Re: Props
MartWhit (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 11:07
as Ale says, its folly to leave something so fundamental to the likely success of the team to such a stage.

Its ok to look at opportunistic signings in the back 3 as we have room under the cap, as we did Yarde and Ashton. You really cant play that game in your front row and in either of the 2 halfback positions.

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 11:22
It's been obvious we've needed another loosehead for ages. If we don't get anyone of a sufficient enough quality it will have been very bad business.

 
Re: Props
StalyShark (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 11:38
Two big lumps signed by Tigers now:

[www.rugbypass.com]

 
Re: Props
Olyy (IP Logged)
07 August, 2018 14:36
Quote:
StalyShark
It's been obvious we've needed another loosehead for ages. If we don't get anyone of a sufficient enough quality it will have been very bad business.

When it was announced that Fridge would be out for the rest of the season the club said that we were going to sign injury cover for the rest of the season.
That was in 2016 and we've still not got anyone in!

 
Re: Props
Ellastone Basking (IP Logged)
09 August, 2018 22:02
You may think itís laughable, but looking at other Premiership side who actually want to be in the top 4 they are signing quality props and we havenít. Hope I am wrong but a couple of injuries to key players and we are looking at 8th again


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?