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Well we lost...
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 15:42
Oh dear oh dear. Was worried after Quins, very worried after Worcs, more heartened after Exeter....

Immediate thoughts more so focusing on the backs. We canít really do much more with the forwards however our wastage in the backs itís also frustrating- starting with....

AJ lack of game control and for some reason his Ďmiracleí passes plus errors are a bit of killer for us - based from Quins/Worcs/Wasps game. Example of not even being able to restart a game - throwing unnecessary big passes. Would put Sam James at 10. He seems a lot calmer and makes less errors

Jennings - excellent on the crash ball. Therefore use it more - itís not rocket science-
At the start of the second half he was doing pop passes to stationary forward......

Bryon for some reason just seemed completely off the pace from his first missed tackle, couldnít we have subbed him?

Cliff was knackered - again sub him.

Good to see Yarde always looking to put his best in, barely saw any of Denny

Sam James looked good, Jennings was good on the crash ball - frustrating that he just doesnít do it enough

Forwards - we need new signings - but weíve known that for 3 seasons. We are outgunned and outclassed.

Really looking down the barrel this season - our returning signings wonít stop our scrum going backwards nor give us an 8 that can break the line



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/09/2018 15:51 by Surbiton Shark.

 
Re: Well we lost...
Olyy (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 15:53
Sam James is calmer and makes less errors.....like when he panic threw the hospital pass back over our try line ultimately leading to Wasps BP?
He is in terrible form atm, other than that break and chip today.
If Rohan or Leota were fit I don't think he'd be starting and I expect to see Jennings/Luke James next week.


I'm a huge huge Sam James fan but we have to be realistic here, he's not playing well.
Moving him to 10 would be a disaster, even if AJ is struggling atm

 
Re: Well we lost...
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 15:57
I'd nearly start odogwu over Solomon next match as at least he did more in his cameo last weekend than denny did in these last two matches.

 
Re: Well we lost...
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 16:00
Think it was his brother with that complete and utter hospital pass.

Sam looked good today (watching on the TV). AJ just adding chaos to an already disorganised situation isnít helping our cause.

Still donít understand how we can be so disorganised that we canít use Jennings as a straight running crash ball merchant - he makes yards the majority of the time and takes numerous defenders to get him down.

 
Re: Well we lost...
clutch (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 16:01
Wasnít that Luke James? Plus we were trying to chase the game. Sam played well. I agree with AJ critique but that comes down to Cliff not being good enough to be starting premiership games. Gives AJ no space.

 
Re: Well we lost...
22 September, 2018 16:01
Same old, same old.

Under powered up front, half backs no game management or tactical nous.

I agree with Dimes's comment on Macginty's restart which started the rot:-

F.. f...'s s...



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4248/34452231260_b77f3695e4_t.jpg
Dis mus be da place

 
Re: Well we lost...
Braz (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 16:07
It's a while since I've posted, but I've not been this despondent about Sale for a long time. We're too reliant on a few big names coming back and even then the manifest problems in the pack won't be resolved. Any hope of a top six finish appears gone and once again we look set to be stuck in a relegation dogfight. I can't see any wins that are likely at the moment.

 
Re: Well we lost...
22 September, 2018 16:34
Most points conceded, bottom two for tries scored, worst points difference, zero bonus points, and if Wuss get a point tomorrow, bottom of the table.

Our players already look knackered (especially front five) but we put virtually the same team out every week.

Still, "the future is orange", "in Dimes we trust", "always look on the bright side of life", etc, etc.

 
Re: Well we lost...
Olyy (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 16:45
I was sure it was Sam, but if it was Luke then I rescind that point.



I think what's worrying is our lack of BPs.
Wuss yet to get a win but only 1pt behind us and with a game in hand.
Quins only 1 win this season but 5pts ahead in the table.
Last season we got a boat load of BPs - even in our losses we tended to come away with something,



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/09/2018 16:45 by Olyy.

 
Re: Well we lost...
ashtonshark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 16:47
We have no choice but to put the same team out again. We've only got 22 or 23 senior players available. How can you expect to do anything with a senior squad of only 29 with the 4 highest profile players not available for the first quarter of the season. Just a ridiculous position to be in.

The objective of the season is already shifting from top 6 to survival

Its all been said already. Forwards under powered and lacking any go forward. Well beaten in the scrum and completely ineffective maul defence and attack. Backs look disorganised and directionless. We are about an un-clinical as you can be, wasting chances and committing error after error. I am struggling to find many positives to take from the start to the season.

 
Re: Well we lost...
H's Dad... (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 18:16
I tend to agree with Dimes comments.
Wasps started with a different pair of props to last week. We just about held our own in the scrum till towards the end of their stint , but our replacements were going backwards from their very first scrum - Wasps replaced theirs simultaneously. That set the tone from 60 minutes on.
We principally lost because Johnson and Hughes carried far better and with greater effect than our forward ball carriers. Their backs also recycled better and outflanked us clearly on several occasions: twice when we failed to drift our defence they made huge territory gains.
Nevertheless on a different day we would have scored 2 or 3 more tries (Denny's failure to catch, Sam's unlucky bounce and one held up over the line. Sam James played pretty well.
I thought our centre partnership was ok today. Both Jennings and Luke also did well.
Two lovely tight offloads by their 12 De Bourgois(?) though, each time to a supporting player immediately behind him, resulted in scores. We don't seem to have the right defensive structure to defend this.
Our kicking was also poor though, Le Roux worth his place for Wasps for that alone.

Nevertheless no need to be despondent IF we get some front row additions that can also carry! We started brightly enough and played well when we kept ball in hand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 22/09/2018 18:21 by H's Dad....

 
Re: Well we lost...
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 18:25
The thread title is wrong. It should be 'Hell we lost...'

Other than that, there's not much to say.

 
Re: Well we lost...
ale shark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 18:30
The first 30 seconds were promising though. That bit was fun.

 
Re: Well we lost...
clutch (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 18:33
Wasnít Dennyís fault. Awful pass.
Ashton we created loads of chances. The game was pretty even bar taking our chances.

 
Re: Well we lost...
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 18:51
Saw a stat on BT that Sam J has missed 4 Prem games in last 4 seasons. In this era of rotation, I find that staggering. I thought he was ok today - and so nearly a brilliant score - but that stat really caught my eye.

 
Re: Well we lost...
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 19:21
Quote:
Pappje Shark
Saw a stat on BT that Sam J has missed 4 Prem games in last 4 seasons. In this era of rotation, I find that staggering. I thought he was ok today - and so nearly a brilliant score - but that stat really caught my eye.
Yes, I saw that too, but is it true? A full premiership season is 22 games. Sam James has played 87 times for Sale - knock 3 off for this season, that's 84. If they were all premiership games then he hasn't played any non-premiership games in the last 4 years. By contrast, Ross Harrison has played 25+ games each season for the last four years. The trouble is that unlike football and cricket, rugby statistics are exactly neatly set up.

 
Re: Well we lost...
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 19:22
We principally lost because they were much better than us. They didn't play for the first 20 minutes and we still steadfastly, repeatedly refused to score. I reckon our scrum was in trouble after that first 20 minutes, well before the changes. Our one effective ball carrier was sat on the bench for about 60 minutes. Despite our forwards issues, we still managed to create, or happen upon several chances, that we consistently failed to capitalise is a worry. Our missing backs will hopefully bring some composure and convert those opportunities, but the need for several more forwards has never been so starkly outlined as today. Perhaps more worryingly there is no evidence of any Deacon plan when we do have the ball, everyone seems to be simply reacting to what the guy inside him does.

Not despondent yet, but that little confidence boost from last week has all gone



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Well we lost...
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 20:21
Quote:
DaveAitch
Quote:
Pappje Shark
Saw a stat on BT that Sam J has missed 4 Prem games in last 4 seasons. In this era of rotation, I find that staggering. I thought he was ok today - and so nearly a brilliant score - but that stat really caught my eye.
Yes, I saw that too, but is it true? A full premiership season is 22 games. Sam James has played 87 times for Sale - knock 3 off for this season, that's 84. If they were all premiership games then he hasn't played any non-premiership games in the last 4 years. By contrast, Ross Harrison has played 25+ games each season for the last four years. The trouble is that unlike football and cricket, rugby statistics are exactly neatly set up.
In reality he's only missed 4 games in last 3 seasons

[www.salesharks.com]

 
Re: Well we lost...
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
22 September, 2018 20:46
Irish, yes it does just mean three sesaons, but...

According to those stats he played one Premiership game in 2012-13, yet he was credited with 0 minutes on the pitch. Presumably he was an unused replacement for that game. That being the case have there been any others seasons when that has happened i.e credited with an appearance that wasn't made - or is it just wrong in the minutes played column? Either way there is no Andrew Samson when it comes to rugby stats and trivia.

 
Re: Well we lost...
FarnhamShark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2018 07:58
There's a complete lack of variety in AJ's game at the moment. I can't remember him ever using a short kick (when Sam did, it worked). Surely, against a very fast rush defence, the chip over the top or a grubber kick is an obvious tactic, but we AJ never used it. As a result, we found it very hard to get any momentum. When is JO'C fit?!

 
Re: Well we lost...
camshark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2018 08:27
Without quick ball from Faf , who also keeps defences tight due to his unpredictability and ability to break, AJ is trying too hard to make things happen on his own. He is taking the ball up too much , how many times did he duck under shoulder high tackles yesterday ?
I am not blaming Cliff , he is what he is , and puts in a 100% every game , but just compare his speed of distribution compared to Fafís for SA. Defences against us have an eternity to get set up at the breakdown.

 
Re: Well we lost...
clutch (IP Logged)
23 September, 2018 08:44
Itís not Cliffs fault as you say. Cliff has played well, very well at times in terms of his level. Heís just not a starting prem 9. We need to have signed someone else and have a back up to AJ. It goes back to my old point about AJ struggling with the structure. Not saying he is, but perhaps Faf makes him look a lot better than he actually is. As class players often do.

 
Re: Well we lost...
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2018 10:16
Cliff's delivery is at least as quick as Faf's and a lot more consistent. Don't think that is the problem. He (Cliff) may well take more time to marshall the forwards and actually get his hands on the ball, giving defence more time to organise. Of course, Cliff is not a runner, so defence doesn't have to cover that eventuality. He has actually tried a couple of runs, but just isn't effective. He ran himself into the ground on Saturday (prime time for getting injured), it's been done to death but no point putting academy on the bench if you don't trust them. I bet there weren't many, if any, other 9's who played 80 minutes this week.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Well we lost...
thekeg (IP Logged)
23 September, 2018 11:05
I thought MacGinty was pretty poor yesterday, continually carrying the ball, which wasps were clearly expecting. Some poor passing too, most notably for the Solomona drop, plus some dire restarts. Thereís plenty to like about him but he definitely wasnít at his best yesterday.

I agree that cliffís service is at least as good as Faf, but faf is such a threat with ball in hand that sides are so preoccupied with keeping him quiet that it creates space for others, without even factoring in the magic he can create as an individual. Cliff simply doesnít have that running game, so the space for MacGinty etc is closed down quicker.

 
Re: Well we lost...
MartWhit (IP Logged)
23 September, 2018 11:51
Macginty is carrying the ball because he doesnt like the shapes he's seeing outside. Basically, the alignments are too flat and the passes he's receiving, not so much from cliff who is decent but from the forwards giving the pass behind from first receiver, are terrible.

 
Re: Well we lost...
StalyShark (IP Logged)
23 September, 2018 14:07
Strauss has to start next week, Ross, good 6 but isn't an 8 as he doesn't make hard yards. One Curry from the start to be replaced by the other around the 55 mark so they can be in or around every ruck. We didn't win one turnover on the floor accotding to the official stats so it's definitely not working.

 
Re: Well we lost...
clutch (IP Logged)
23 September, 2018 14:14
Having said all that the alignment canít be that bad. We created plenty of opportunities. We may have won the game with Faf but that would paper over the front 5 squad deficiencies.


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