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Dimes on podcast
Surbiton Shark (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 12:20
For those who can operate the technology - Dimes is on a podcast (rugby dungeon) for a 30 mins informal interview.

It's very good and will be of interest to any Sale fan.

Couple of items that took my interest

1. The team for this weekend will be strong as we failed to win last week in Ireland - so it's flat out for 5 points
2. We won't sign any new backs over summer - everything is front 5
3. Dimes spoke at length about player welfare (very proud of it) plus why the likes of Webber/Harrison etc., play 80 mins and how in previous seasons we falter towards the end of the season due to our smaller squads
4. He is still striving for more consistency from the team - admitted that we should have beaten Connaught last week - this is fair enough for me, it's clear we are still struggling to put in 80 min performances week in/week out so it's good that the club also identify with this.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
clutch (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 12:27
Focusing on front 5 is unquestionably the priority but Iíd be concerned if we sign no backs. 3/4 are fine but 9/10 a concern.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
23Shark (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 14:04
For anyone wanting to listen, it can be found here [twitter.com]

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
yukon (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 14:10
At around 32:30 mark, does he say Ashton signed a four year deal?

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
H's D (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 14:58
Aye, same as FAF.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
Sussex Shark (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 15:26
I thought he meant more that Faf, Beaumont and Ashton were at the press day.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
H's D (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 15:43
FAF"We wouldn't have signed 4 year deals if we didn't like it..." you could be correct but the use of "we" would suggest otherwise. Especially so since it's in effect been repeated by Dimes.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
yukon (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 15:43
He did say we're no longer pluggin gaps short term too.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
stevene (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 17:10
Quote:
Surbiton Shark
For those who can operate the technology - Dimes is on a podcast (rugby dungeon) for a 30 mins informal interview.
It's very good and will be of interest to any Sale fan.

Couple of items that took my interest

1. The team for this weekend will be strong as we failed to win last week in Ireland - so it's flat out for 5 points
2. We won't sign any new backs over summer - everything is front 5
3. Dimes spoke at length about player welfare (very proud of it) plus why the likes of Webber/Harrison etc., play 80 mins and how in previous seasons we falter towards the end of the season due to our smaller squads
4. He is still striving for more consistency from the team - admitted that we should have beaten Connaught last week - this is fair enough for me, it's clear we are still struggling to put in 80 min performances week in/week out so it's good that the club also identify with this.

re second point then, no rob du preez? if so probably no jean luc or rob then?

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
ale shark (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 18:01
Maybe heís already signed!

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
yukon (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 18:05
Quote:
ale shark
Maybe heís already signed!

Dimes is an expert at suspense & word play

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
clutch (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 18:48
The first third feels heavily edited as if there was a load of uncomfortable silences or things Diamond didnít want publishing.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
ashtonshark (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 19:40
After the first few questions i thought it was going to be a strange and difficult interview as Dimes didn't seem to want to talk and was giving very short answers. However he relaxed and opened up well and it became nicely informative

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 20:32
Clutch - Iíd say the chat is for the dPs to join after the RWC, so technically not joining in the summer. But thatís 2+2=5

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
Yareet (IP Logged)
17 January, 2019 22:56
Quote:
yukon
Quote:
ale shark
Maybe heís already signed!

Dimes is an expert at suspense & word play

[www.ruck.co.uk]

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 02:05
Quote:
Yukon
Dimes is an expert at suspense & word play

I hear he has been known to tell the odd fib too.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
MartWhit (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 11:03
I enjoyed it a lot. Some soft peddling from JB but it helped to get Dimes to open up and share some insight we mostly didn't know. I think he did a good job setting out the clubs training and fitness approach. I also agree with the recruitment focus. There is plenty of high ceiling talent in the backs which make further recruitment not neccessary, looking to the academy is far better risk/reward and value for money.

Specifically wrt the game time of the 1st choice front row, he did a great job of explaining why he does what he does. What he didnt do is give me confidence that the late game and late season tiredeness that has afflicted us is a resolved issue.

To me he basically said the backups havent shown enough to earn more gametime, and they wont get gametime on the cheap. This may or may not drive standards, but so far its pretty much ensuring that Harrison, Webber & John will again be v tired at the business end of the season. This year they will likely face at least 1 additional game, perhaps 2 or 3 if/when we progress in Europe too.

The club has played 1600 mins of rugby this season. Harrison has played 1251 (78%) of them, Webber & John ~1075 apiece.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
23Shark (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 11:41
Quote:
MartWhit
I enjoyed it a lot. Some soft peddling from JB but it helped to get Dimes to open up and share some insight we mostly didn't know. I think he did a good job setting out the clubs training and fitness approach. I also agree with the recruitment focus. There is plenty of high ceiling talent in the backs which make further recruitment not neccessary, looking to the academy is far better risk/reward and value for money.
Specifically wrt the game time of the 1st choice front row, he did a great job of explaining why he does what he does. What he didnt do is give me confidence that the late game and late season tiredeness that has afflicted us is a resolved issue.

To me he basically said the backups havent shown enough to earn more gametime, and they wont get gametime on the cheap. This may or may not drive standards, but so far its pretty much ensuring that Harrison, Webber & John will again be v tired at the business end of the season. This year they will likely face at least 1 additional game, perhaps 2 or 3 if/when we progress in Europe too.

The club has played 1600 mins of rugby this season. Harrison has played 1251 (78%) of them, Webber & John ~1075 apiece.

At least this should be addressed for next season with hopefully a quality replacement 1,2 and 3

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
MartWhit (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 12:05
and 4 & 5 hopefully.

Its my very personal opinion that the talent in the Jets at the moment is lacking players with high ceiling potential as tight 5 forwards. There's plenty of ability, and several good enough to be a premiership players, but no-one of outstanding athletic capability in terms of size, strength or speed who might develop to be the next Itoje, Genge, Vunipola.

Best examples for me are Nott & Rouban Birch. Both are very gifted players, but Nott is struggling to bulk up for the requirements of the 2nd row, and even if he does I think theres a risk he then loses some of what makes him good, namely his agility and speed and I wouldnt rule out this process as part of his current ongoing injury struggles. Far better for me to let him make the grade or not (pun intended) as a 6.

Birch is probably even more gifted, and blessed with great speed. What he isnt blessed with is great height (6'3" I think) and i very much doubt his frame will fill out massively. He's got Zach Mercer type no 8 written all over him.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
thekeg (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 12:33
Based on what Iíve seen I tend to agree with you MW. We seem to have a good flow of hookers but not props or locks. Nothing wrong with shopping elsewhere to fill the gaps as long as we bring youngsters through elsewhere

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
MartWhit (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 12:42
I guess you cant control if or when those generational players come into your academy. You have to accept the swings and roundabouts, and sometimes you'll be overstocked in one area and barren in another. You also have to trust the catchment area and the scouting, which I think we can and do.

Further down the pathway, I think the likes of Rodd and perhaps a couple in the U18 might have all the tools.

It sure would be nice to still have Jamma on board though.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
clutch (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 13:24
Diamond specifically refers to Posethwaite in the interview though as someone that isnít that far away.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
45jumper (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 13:26
Thought it was an excellent interview, really informative!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/01/2019 13:27 by 45jumper.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
Monty9 (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 13:41
Another podcast worth a listen with Simon Orange on the SharkTank just out, definitely worth a listen with lots to be very postive and excited about

[soundcloud.com]

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
Yareet (IP Logged)
18 January, 2019 17:55
Quote:
Monty9
Another podcast worth a listen with Simon Orange on the SharkTank just out, definitely worth a listen with lots to be very postive and excited about
[soundcloud.com]

Literally listening to it as I read this post

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
Crutch (IP Logged)
19 January, 2019 03:14
Probably deserves a thread of its own - really positive interview - lots of insight and apparently we have 2 front row deals done to be announced feb/March, with second row and 3 Du Preezs being worked on.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
thekeg (IP Logged)
19 January, 2019 10:29
I got the impression that perhaps some Du Preez were nailed down but not all....

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
franknfurter (IP Logged)
19 January, 2019 10:45
Listening to the Dimes and Orange podcasts back to back, good things promise to be on the horizon for Sale over the next two seasons.

IMHO, if it doesn't happen, I honestly don't know where Sale go.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
emerging shark (IP Logged)
19 January, 2019 12:21
'perhaps a couple in the U18 might have all the tools.'

Tom Curtis perhaps?

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
thekeg (IP Logged)
19 January, 2019 12:47
Quote:
franknfurter
Listening to the Dimes and Orange podcasts back to back, good things promise to be on the horizon for Sale over the next two seasons.
IMHO, if it doesn't happen, I honestly don't know where Sale go.

The danger is that we assemble a strong squad, underachieve and the the owners lose interest. But Iíd prefer to look at the positives....

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
MartWhit (IP Logged)
19 January, 2019 16:48
Anything is possible. Underachievement included. But if you dont try you dont find out. And I think Simon Orange has realised that not trying means his investment will inevitably fail, and he's decided to take a risk, invest, and at least give him a chance to succeed. He's also realised that nothing succeeds unless the playing side is right.

FWIW, I took a massive amount of info and confidence from both interviews. Orange seems to have really got into the detail of the business in the past year, and now talks with confidence and depth across most challenges facing the club. Its clear he has a plan, it looks to be a well considered plan, and he has the finance to implement it.

Also FWIW, I think chances are it will succeed. Sale has an inherent advantage over many other clubs. It has a massive catchment area of playing talent, and a massive sporting fanbase to pull from. I dont buy the argument that football is a major hindrance. I think folks of Manchester will happily support more than 1 team. An aspriation of crowds of 8-10k is not even agressive if the club is regluar top 6 and in the HC. If the playing side is good, the only barrier is the stadium logistics which still need some work.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
H's D (IP Logged)
19 January, 2019 22:35
How do you assess a "successfull" investment in Premiership Rugby when almost all clubs run at a significant loss. Certainly not in money terms.
Only Exeter come close to turning over a profit currently and their owner is still owed over £12M.
Saracens, the most "successfull" club of recent years regularly posts losses of around £3M and owes it's owner over £50M!
I tend to think one has to put a value on winning a major trophy to be worth well over £5M for it to be termed a "successfull investment"
Isn't it more appropriate to post in terms of all clubs now trying to "buy" success? Some more effectively than others.(Sm100)

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
franknfurter (IP Logged)
19 January, 2019 23:32
I agree with Sale having a HUGE catchment area for support and that the Football clubs aren't a hindrance, like the old adage says "if you support Man Utd, you don't live in Manchester" lol

I'm guessing a "successful" club is a winning club - Trophies, Championships et al
Sale Sharks are not the most popular club with TV, however, If Sale were to dominate all competition they would have no option other than to televise. That in itself breeds supporters.

Like someone once said "Give them what they want - they will come"
Supporters of any sport want to be part of a winning organisation. Best of luck with your vision for Sale Mr Diamond and Mr Orange

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
thekeg (IP Logged)
20 January, 2019 09:00
I think the definition of success MW means here is the one set out by Simon orange in the podcast, which seems to be that if we have a team consistently in the top four competing he believes that will attract a regular gate of 9-10k, which in turn will allow us to break even

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
20 January, 2019 09:34
Quote:
thekeg
I think the definition of success MW means here is the one set out by Simon orange in the podcast, which seems to be that if we have a team consistently in the top four competing he believes that will attract a regular gate of 9-10k, which in turn will allow us to break even

It always seems a simple equation to break even, spend less than you get in. The truth is always somewhat different. Owners, DORs or whoever pretty much always believe that a little bit extra needs to be spent to get success and with it the associated financial rewards. The fact that so few clubs, and not just in rugby, actually make a profit points to the thinking being flawed. Exeter are, at present and have been over several years, the one club which has successfully bucked the trend at the highest level.

The big problem is that there can only be one team which is top, and four in the top four. No matter what is aimed for, most clubs will be unsuccessful. It's just the way professional sport is.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
H's D (IP Logged)
20 January, 2019 10:24
Would we break even if we filled the AJ Bell week-in week-out?
Somehow I doubt it on ticket sales alone.
Even clubs like Tigers, who not only come close to filling a far larger stadium but also gain all the profit from matchday ancillary sales and a far more successful corporate offering AND have a far more significant level of corporate sponsorship, fail to do that consistently.
They have almost everything in their favour but have struggled for the last three or four seasons.
Of course the sale of a large share of Premiership Rugby Limited could help balance the books but as DORs have pointed out the £11M due to each club after tax is, on average, only 3 or so years losses.
All I am suggesting is that we are kidding ourselves if we think any sane businessman would think of club ownership as "an investment" that will being a return. Rugby is still largely a rich owner's (tax mitigating) high profile hobby for all but the biggest clubs.
Albeit that Exeter are incredibly well structured and managed and confound the rules. Nevertheless they are not generating a realistic return on investment in financial terms alone..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 20/01/2019 10:33 by H's D.

 
Re: Dimes on podcast
thekeg (IP Logged)
20 January, 2019 11:19
I wasnít saying it was easy,achievable or realistic, just that this is the ownerís stated target and therefore what we need to start with that target when determining if itís been successful


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