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Israel Folau
franknfurter (IP Logged)
10 April, 2019 23:19
Sounds off again after his 12 month "quiet period" ends

[www.bbc.com]

 
Re: Israel Folau
ale shark (IP Logged)
10 April, 2019 23:55
As an atheist am I supposed to be bothered by this?

 
Re: Israel Folau
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 02:02
You should be thoroughly outraged, as am I, that he should have the temerity to have beliefs differing to yours. Quite why his twatterings should be newsworthy is not apparent to me.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Israel Folau
Olyy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 05:08
Hopefully the Wallabies take a stand and chuck him directly into the bin.

He has the freedom of speech to air his disgusting views, but that doesn't free him from the consequences his words will bring.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 08:52
Ale, PoyntonShark - itís his equating of being homosexual with being a crime. You donít need to believe in God nor get worked up over differing views, but thereís no place for such backwards views.

 
Re: Israel Folau
isitme (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 08:57
I hope the people who are outraged at Israel Folau are as equally outraged by what is happening outside primary schools in Birmingham and even in Manchester.

Personally I don't agree with his views and as someone who isn't religious I am doomed to hell anyway! His comments do raise an interesting discussion regarding the rights of religious beliefs compared to what might be classed as 'societial norms'. Personally I am against circumcision unless there is a clear medical reason, but so many boys undergo this treatment for purely religious reasons.

 
Re: Israel Folau
StalyShark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 09:22
Letís hope nobody offers him £750k a year...

Israel Folau: Rugby Australia 'intends' to sack full-back after social media post
[www.bbc.co.uk]

 
Re: Israel Folau
mattw7787 (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 10:19
Got to love Joe Marler's response on twitter tho...

 
Re: Israel Folau
ale shark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 10:21
Pappje - Mr Folau is also suggesting that the same level of repentance is required for a much larger mass of people. Iíve never quite understood why the media focuses on a far smaller group as being those that we need to be outraged on behalf of when most of those that might potentially be outraged forms a far larger sector of Mr Folauís beef.

Are the media not exacerbating the issue by implying that the minority that they focus on is full of far more sensitive souls than the mass of other people that Mr Folau doesnít like?

If you walked down Canal Street on a Friday night, youíd be hard pressed to find anyone who cares what he thinks. If you went to your local liberal safe-space youíd find seething mass of folk, all frothing away, who are probably not even on Mr Folauís hit-list. Just ignore him.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Olyy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 10:35
Didn't realise Piers Morgan posted on here

 
Re: Israel Folau
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 10:52
What, ignore him by coming onto a web forum to signal my ignorance of him?

Iím not outraged on behalf of anyone. I believe his views are out of date and unpleasant for myself.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Grumpy Old Shark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 11:27
Ale
I donít think that he doesnít like them.
Rather he believes (misguidedly or otherwise) that his belief system holds that people breaking the taboos of that belief system need to either repent or face some form of divine judgement.
That belief system also generally offers tolerance but some followers are more hardline than others.
It does also hold that part of that Ďtoleranceí is a requirement to try to Ďsaveí those that have erred from the supposed true path.
If it is accepted that he is entitled to follow a belief system, perhaps there is also a need to accept that that requires him to try to guide others.
As you say, itís probably best not to take offence as none is intended and if an individual doesnít feel any need to be saved just ignore him.

 
Re: Israel Folau
jaytom (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 11:59
For me, it's simple. Leave politics and religion out of this.

He took action x.

His employer told him that doing action x was in breach of his contract and that taking
action x again would result in him facing disciplinary action and potentially being sacked.

He took action x again.

He is therefore facing disciplinary action and potentially being sacked.

Simple.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Flumpty (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 12:31
hmmm, does anyone know of a club with a recent history of taking in "lost souls" and is in need (according to some) of a full back .....................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2019 12:32 by Flumpty.

 
Re: Israel Folau
clutch (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 12:59
Dimes dismissed that the last time around!!

 
Re: Israel Folau
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 13:10
Pappje, in his arcane belief system being gay is a crime against god, I disagree with him too, but I do believe it is a deeply held belief. To me it is no more a backward view than his belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent creator of all things, but they are views that he shares with huge swathes of the world's population. He can't be fired for his beliefs, he can, as Jaytom points out, be fired for breach of contract and he has stated that his beliefs and his right to express them are far more important to him than any career. Ultimately it will be Qantas rather than the ARU who decides on the severity of his punishment.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Israel Folau
Yareet (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 16:13
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Pappje, in his arcane belief system being gay is a crime against god, I disagree with him too, but I do believe it is a deeply held belief. To me it is no more a backward view than his belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent creator of all things, but they are views that he shares with huge swathes of the world's population. He can't be fired for his beliefs, he can, as Jaytom points out, be fired for breach of contract and he has stated that his beliefs and his right to express them are far more important to him than any career. Ultimately it will be Qantas rather than the ARU who decides on the severity of his punishment.

Qantas who's CEO happens to erm... be gay

 
Re: Israel Folau
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
11 April, 2019 17:54
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Pappje, in his arcane belief system being gay is a crime against god, I disagree with him too, but I do believe it is a deeply held belief. To me it is no more a backward view than his belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent creator of all things, but they are views that he shares with huge swathes of the world's population. He can't be fired for his beliefs, he can, as Jaytom points out, be fired for breach of contract and he has stated that his beliefs and his right to express them are far more important to him than any career. Ultimately it will be Qantas rather than the ARU who decides on the severity of his punishment.

Qantas who's CEO happens to erm... be gay

Well I'd be fairly happy if I was CEO of a national airline!

 
Re: Israel Folau
Yareet (IP Logged)
12 April, 2019 07:41
Quote:
Yareet
Quote:
PoyntonShark
Pappje, in his arcane belief system being gay is a crime against god, I disagree with him too, but I do believe it is a deeply held belief. To me it is no more a backward view than his belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent creator of all things, but they are views that he shares with huge swathes of the world's population. He can't be fired for his beliefs, he can, as Jaytom points out, be fired for breach of contract and he has stated that his beliefs and his right to express them are far more important to him than any career. Ultimately it will be Qantas rather than the ARU who decides on the severity of his punishment.

Qantas who's CEO happens to erm... be gay

I can only apologise for the awful grammar typo 😔

 
Re: Israel Folau
StalyShark (IP Logged)
12 April, 2019 08:44
It would be quite the PR coup if a club managed to help him see toleration where once he was intolerant; maybe some community work on a certain street...

 
Re: Israel Folau
clutch (IP Logged)
12 April, 2019 09:28
If Dimes could do that he should be knighted and become a senior political figure.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Olyy (IP Logged)
12 April, 2019 09:35
We saw how the sponsors reacted to the rumours of the Ulster duo, can't see them being too keen to sign such a loud and proud bigot.

 
Re: Israel Folau
StalyShark (IP Logged)
12 April, 2019 09:45
In Dimes we trust.

 
Re: Israel Folau
WiganSaler (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 09:00
Billy Vunipola defends post telling gay people Ďhell awaitsí in support of Folau!
These players liked his post...

Courtney Lawes England and Northampton Saints second row
Ellis Genge England and Leicester Tigers prop
Luther Burrell England and Northampton Saints centre
Manu Tuilagi England and Leicester Tigers centre
Faf de Klerk South Africa and Sale Sharks scrum half
Will Skelton Australia and Saracens second row
Taulupe Faletau Wales and Bath back row
Lopeti Timani Australia back row
Nick Isiekwe England and Saracens lock
Jack Singleton Worcester Warriors hooker
Jamal Ford-Robinson Northampton Saints prop
Sekope Kepu Australia prop
Siegfried Fisiihoi Tonga and Stade Francais prop
Dave Ewers Exeter Chiefs back-row forward



--------------------------------------------------
Wigan "Home for the Bewildered"

Fully paid up member of the LSSSSC.
"Long Suffering Sale Sharks Supporters Club"

 
Re: Israel Folau
Olyy (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 09:04
Ben Curry did as well, but unliked afterwards and said on Twitter he didn't read the caption/doesn't agree with it

 
Re: Israel Folau
JohnJ of HM (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 09:09
I'm appalled at all those liking it. I see no difference between this and posting racist comments. They are equally abhorrent. How would Folau feel if he received tweets about that. They are both condemning a whole section of society for something they can do nothing about.

 
Re: Israel Folau
clutch (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 09:34
Who likes something without reading it. All very bizarre.
Iím pretty sure Faf has a girl friend in SA so Iíd imagine the odd bit of fornicating takes place. Iím in between agnostic and atheist. Bit concerned where that places me.

 
Re: Israel Folau
dinogyro (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 09:52
I am really disappointed that Faf would condone homophobic messages.Perhaps the club could find out Faf's intentions in 'liking' the post.

There is no difference between homophobia and racism. None of it has a place in society or rugby.

I am an atheist, so I would probably be damned too.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Olyy (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 10:05
Faf has spoken about how deeply religious he is in the past, said at lions they had team prayers pre game and ran bible study sessions etc.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Crutch (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 10:26
Yeah if you read Fafís twitter posts (and Rohanís) theyíre clearly very religious - but ultimately it comes down to the difference between your own personal views being a matter for yourself, versus judging others publicly based on those views.

Iím agnostic, but anyone else is free to believe whatever they want as far as Iím concerned, so long as they donít hurt anyone else in the process.

 
Re: Israel Folau
muddydwarf (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 12:28
I'm disappointed but not surprised by some of the Sale players liking BV's post.
As stated, they are deeply religious & no doubt hold certain views that put them at odds with those of us with more 'progressive' views.
Their views are their own & freely-held as is their right.
I'd just like to think that they would consider their elevated platform & the effect their views may have on young fans coming to terms with their sexuality, especially given the noise the sport makes about inclusivity.
BV's post can be surmised as "you're all being beastly about my Faith, & after all its Adam & Eve not Adam & Steve" which comes across as whiny bigotry I'm afraid.
Having a religious viewpoint doesn't stop you having that viewpoint challenged/questioned/ridiculed no more than any other socio-political ideology.
Our Rights stop at the point where exercising them begins to hurt others as far as I'm concerned.
I personally deeply dislike religion, but I've no right to curtail the practice of such & that works the other way too.
Sarries seem to have jumped on this very quickly & I'm sure other clubs including Sale have done so too.

 
Re: Israel Folau
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 12:33
To be perfectly honest I couldn't care less what Israel Folau thinks about anything and I care even less what other people think about what he thinks.

Shall we get back to Brexit?

Or even rugby?

 
Re: Israel Folau
dinogyro (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 12:43
Quote:
SimonG19
To be perfectly honest I couldn't care less what Israel Folau thinks about anything and I care even less what other people think about what he thinks.
Shall we get back to Brexit?

Or even rugby?

If you don't care what people think about things, a forum is a strange place to be.

I am here because I want to know what people think. I think it's relevant what Folau says (rather than what he believes) because that does have an affect on rugby. Its image and its support.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Monty9 (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 13:23
Quote:
dinogyro
If you don't care what people think about things, a forum is a strange place to be.
I am here because I want to know what people think.

Best post ever!

 
Re: Israel Folau
ageinghoody (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 13:27
Quote:
clutch
...
Iím pretty sure Faf has a girl friend in SA so Iíd imagine the odd bit of fornicating takes place. ...

Not in the original sense, or at least, I'd hope not!

In Latin, "fornix" means arch or vault. In Ancient Rome, prostitutes waited for their customers out of the rain under vaulted archways. Fornix became a euphemism for brothel, and the Latin verb fornicare referred to a man visiting a brothel. As an aside, note that it's the buyer of the service who's considered the guilty party!

I'm one of those odd people who believes in God, nominally the same one as IF and BP (and others it appears), but wonder how the bits about forgiveness and "judge not ... etc." got overlooked.

 
Re: Israel Folau
muddydwarf (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 14:26
Quote:
ageinghoody
Quote:
clutch
...
Iím pretty sure Faf has a girl friend in SA so Iíd imagine the odd bit of fornicating takes place. ...

Not in the original sense, or at least, I'd hope not!

In Latin, "fornix" means arch or vault. In Ancient Rome, prostitutes waited for their customers out of the rain under vaulted archways. Fornix became a euphemism for brothel, and the Latin verb fornicare referred to a man visiting a brothel. As an aside, note that it's the buyer of the service who's considered the guilty party!

I'm one of those odd people who believes in God, nominally the same one as IF and BP (and others it appears), but wonder how the bits about forgiveness and "judge not ... etc." got overlooked.

I'm not religious at all, but AH here makes a very good point & one I'm bang alongside. I don't think you need religion to understand that concept.

Edit : a concept I do struggle with I must admit. I should be a better person.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/04/2019 14:52 by muddydwarf.

 
Re: Israel Folau
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 17:13
Quote:
Olyy
We saw how the sponsors reacted to the rumours of the Ulster duo, can't see them being too keen to sign such a loud and proud bigot.
I thought the gay community had monopolised "loud and proud" for themselves, just as they have with the word 'gay'.

I'm neither for nor against Folau. All I shall say is 'thank God I'm an atheist'.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Pappje Shark (IP Logged)
13 April, 2019 21:43
As my understanding of it goes, Lawes has stated that he doesnít agree with BVís views but that he ďlikedĒ the post because he accepts his right to speak (or something along those lines). The gist is that a like/retweet does not equal endorsement, which is often used by people.

Personally, Iím quite liking the fact the Bristol DJ played ďItís raining menĒ after the final whistle today....

 
Re: Israel Folau
SimonG19 (IP Logged)
14 April, 2019 12:56
I'm against anyone who posts on Twitter!

 
Re: Israel Folau
StalyShark (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 09:56
Officially booted out now.

 
Re: Israel Folau
PoyntonShark (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 10:24
Not quite. First step in the process to boot him out has been completed, i.e. He has been issued with a breach notice. He stated at the weekend that he intended to appeal, so at least some poor lawyers will net some cash out of this whole silly situation.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

 
Re: Israel Folau
StalyShark (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 10:26

 
Re: Israel Folau
dinogyro (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 11:58
This could work to England's advantage. We just need Sonny Bill Williams to post some support and get sacked too.

 
Re: Israel Folau
clutch (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 13:22
Or the entire Bath, Bristol and Gloucester squad.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 14:20
Quote:
dinogyro
This could work to England's advantage. We just need Sonny Bill Williams to post some support and get sacked too.
A Muslim showing support for Christian repentance? Unlikely.

 
Re: Israel Folau
ale shark (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 14:57
SBW is freely allowed to cover up the logos of his team's sponsors if he doesn't like them based on his religious beliefs.

 
Re: Israel Folau
ageinghoody (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 18:48
Quote:
Irish_Shark
...
A Muslim showing support for Christian repentance? Unlikely.

Islam preaches repentance too! They tend to use the Arabic word, Tawba, but the principle's the same.

 
Re: Israel Folau
JohnJ of HM (IP Logged)
15 April, 2019 21:24
You can repent from being an adulterer or a fornicator. You can't repent from being gay. It's like repenting from being black.

 
Re: Israel Folau
ulsterlad (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 03:04
Why do extreme Christians need to state the people they hate?


ISIS throw gay people from buildings and certain rugby players send them to hell!


Why cannot people of faith post messages like:


"I draw strength from my faith, and belief in Jesus, keeps me on a path I believe will be my salvation. I urge everyone to look for the same strength I have"


Post your belief! Why do they need to then list things that will send people to hell?


Leviticus, which is the Bibical text which Folau often quotes about homosexuality also has similiar words about body markings (tattos) yet he ignores that biblicial text

As for some of the comments on here making light of the situation, you need a long hard look at how ignornarnt you are!

 
Re: Israel Folau
ulsterlad (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 03:10
Quote:
dinogyro
This could work to England's advantage. We just need Sonny Bill Williams to post some support and get sacked too.

Disgusting remark!

You Sir, have no place in decent company!

 
Re: Israel Folau
ulsterlad (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 03:16
Quote:
DaveAitch
Quote:
Olyy
We saw how the sponsors reacted to the rumours of the Ulster duo, can't see them being too keen to sign such a loud and proud bigot.
I thought the gay community had monopolised "loud and proud" for themselves, just as they have with the word 'gay'.

I'm neither for nor against Folau. All I shall say is 'thank God I'm an atheist'.


What is that about?


LGBT people were called gay and rather than accept that as an insult, they embraced it and made it their own. So are they to be blamed now?

For a self proclaimed atheist you are making alot of comments about religion and anti LGBT!

 
Re: Israel Folau
ale shark (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 04:47
Looking forward to the tribunal. Should be an interesting case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/04/2019 04:48 by ale shark.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Chris1850 (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 07:57
Denny has his say in today's Telegraph. Think it can be viewed by all. Apologies if it is behind the paywall

[digitaledition.telegraph.co.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/04/2019 07:58 by Chris1850.

 
Re: Israel Folau
Irish_Shark (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 08:44
Quote:
Chris1850
Denny has his say in today's Telegraph. Think it can be viewed by all. Apologies if it is behind the paywall
[digitaledition.telegraph.co.uk]
I think Denny came affront rather well there, kudos to him as he covered some tricky topics

 
Re: Israel Folau
jaytom (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 10:44
Quote:
Irish_Shark
Quote:
Chris1850
Denny has his say in today's Telegraph. Think it can be viewed by all. Apologies if it is behind the paywall
[digitaledition.telegraph.co.uk]
I think Denny came affront rather well there, kudos to him as he covered some tricky topics

Agreed - and a far more dignified way to preach your faith to the public if you feel the need to do so. Folau - take notes!

 
Re: Israel Folau
dinogyro (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 10:45
Quote:
ulsterlad
Quote:
dinogyro
This could work to England's advantage. We just need Sonny Bill Williams to post some support and get sacked too.

Disgusting remark!

You Sir, have no place in decent company!

I carnt help it, i am ignornarnt.

 
Re: Israel Folau
DaveAitch (IP Logged)
18 April, 2019 14:20
Quote:
ulsterlad
Quote:
DaveAitch
Quote:
Olyy
We saw how the sponsors reacted to the rumours of the Ulster duo, can't see them being too keen to sign such a loud and proud bigot.
I thought the gay community had monopolised "loud and proud" for themselves, just as they have with the word 'gay'.

I'm neither for nor against Folau. All I shall say is 'thank God I'm an atheist'.


What is that about?


LGBT people were called gay and rather than accept that as an insult, they embraced it and made it their own. So are they to be blamed now?

For a self proclaimed atheist you are making alot of comments about religion and anti LGBT!

My wording may not have been the best but if you read up on the origins of the use of 'gay' in its modern context you will find as wiki says (yes, I know, wiki) "In the 1960s, gay became the word favored (sic) by homosexual men to describe their sexual orientation." The perjorative use of the term would appear to have followed on from that, rather than precede it.

What makes you think I'm a self proclaimed atheist? What I wrote was "thank God I'm an atheist", which is contradictory to say the least. I don't know if you ever saw Dave Allen, the Irish comedian (but he was so much more than that). He used to close his shows with "May your god go with you". I shall assume you understand what he meant in saying that.

I actually don't have an axe to grind with most things in life. I do, though, object to having to bend over backwards to please a group just because it has a loud voice. Fire and brimstone religion used to be what was practised, and it was that type of religion that was forced by the good Christians of the Old World onto peoples it infiltrated, often suppressing them by force at the same time. (The same is true of many other religions.) perhaps it's no surprise then to find it is that type of religion that is prevalent in those regions. I suppose it is evangelical zeal that I have a problem with, and that runs throughout life, whether it's religion, LGBT, rugby clubs or whatever.

 
Re: Israel Folau
ulsterlad (IP Logged)
20 April, 2019 02:14
Quote:
jaytom
Quote:
Irish_Shark
Quote:
Chris1850
Denny has his say in today's Telegraph. Think it can be viewed by all. Apologies if it is behind the paywall
[digitaledition.telegraph.co.uk]
I think Denny came affront rather well there, kudos to him as he covered some tricky topics

Agreed - and a far more dignified way to preach your faith to the public if you feel the need to do so. Folau - take notes!


A good example of what I said in an earlier post. You can (and should be allowed to express you faith) without having to demonize thousands of kids/young adults struggling with their sexuality and ( maybe) faith!


If you want to force your religious opinion upon others, you have no place in professional sport!

 
Re: Israel Folau
ulsterlad (IP Logged)
20 April, 2019 02:36
And to be clear:

If Rory Best started spouting DUP nonsense on equal marriage (or supported hateful comments by Folau or BV, I would be at the top of the list demanding he was sacked and never played for Ulster or Ireland again!

I am beyond disappointed that some of our players liked these comments and disgusted that some are trying to excuse that.

That funky rainbow sharks sign they change the Twitter feed for a week to support equality becomes pointless when players are posting hateful, homophobic comments!


Ben Curry may now have deleted the fact he liked a hateful post, but he did and that is the issue!


As for Billy V - if England play him again, it says all I need to know!


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