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Sir v Gloucester
Discussion started by Chris1850 , 15 May, 2019 22:55
Sir v Gloucester
Chris1850 15 May, 2019 22:55
Wayne Barnes

Linesmen: Chris Ridley & Peter Allan
TMO: Keith Lewis

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Major Bloodnok 15 May, 2019 22:57
Ooh, interesting. I'd have thought someone like Sir Wayne would have been given one of the juicier games.



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Somewhere in the South Stand

Re: Sir v Gloucester
PoyntonShark 16 May, 2019 02:18
Have I remembered correctly? Did I read that Wayne is retiring from reffing to concentrate on his lying, sorry Lawyering?

Could this be his last regular season Prem game? If he is packing in he will surely be given the final.



Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Newcastle under Lyme RUFC Shark 16 May, 2019 06:51
If memory serves me, he reffed the last game v Leicester last season. Obviously like Manchester in May !

Re: Sir v Gloucester
MikeGC 16 May, 2019 07:52
possibly the best referee available, great appointment

Re: Sir v Gloucester
clutch 16 May, 2019 08:07
Lets hope he goes out in style. Erroneous penalty try in last minute for Sale!

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Pappje Shark 16 May, 2019 20:34
A juicier game? Falcons already down, the top two aren’t playing each other, there’s something riding on this one so get a good ref in.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Grumpy Old Shark 16 May, 2019 23:22
Bubber

Re: Sir v Gloucester
grunter 17 May, 2019 22:12
It's common knowledge that Wayne has always been a big fan of Gloucester, having grown up in Bream not many miles from Kingsholm. If he is to retire and if this is his final Premiership game, he may have been given this fixture as a fitting way to go out. I'm sure that he will be totally impartial, as ever. Top official.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
H's D 18 May, 2019 10:47
The Most highly respected referee in rugby union. Just ask Kilburn Cosmos or London French! (they participated in his favourite game ever - completely penalty-free!)

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Olyy 18 May, 2019 13:11
I've said it a bunch of times before but for my money he's the best ref in the game.

Glad we're his last regular prem game

Re: Sir v Gloucester
emerging shark 18 May, 2019 19:33
He was brilliant today. Loved his comment during the game 'just another regular premiership match'!

Re: Sir v Gloucester
H's D 18 May, 2019 19:35
Great that he was willing to decide on most tries himself. Peerless.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Major Bloodnok 18 May, 2019 19:51
Other comments today:

to AJ, after Faf had taken (and missed) a quick conversion for the second try before AJ could tee it up: "Faf took it quickly but, hey, at least you're still 100%"

To Denny, who was asking about a possible forward pass: "Oh, let it go, it's an entertaining game"



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Somewhere in the South Stand

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Crutch 18 May, 2019 20:53
And that in a nutshell is the entire problem.

Barnes wilfully ignores huge numbers of offences in the interests of making the game “entertaining”

I for one will not miss him one iota.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Yorkiesale 18 May, 2019 21:27
As stated previously I will not miss Mr Barnes at all, he thinks he is more important than the game, he thinks he’s some sort of superstar ref. Never asks the touch judges for assistance or even listens to them, in fact I would get rid of them as they are a an expense which the game does not utilise or require with the TMO’s especially with all the cost cutting at twickenham HQ.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
BasilBullneck 18 May, 2019 21:46
Quote:
Yorkiesale
As stated previously I will not miss Mr Barnes at all, he thinks he is more important than the game, he thinks he’s some sort of superstar ref. Never asks the touch judges for assistance or even listens to them, in fact I would get rid of them as they are a an expense which the game does not utilise or require with the TMO’s especially with all the cost cutting at twickenham HQ.

T’is the (off)season of goodwil, clearly!
I suspect there are a very considerable number of referee assessors who disagree with you august opinion, fortunately. That probably explains why he has referred so many internationals and leading club matches for well over a decade in preference to other highly qualified, experienced officials. Looking at it objectively, of course.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Yorkiesale 18 May, 2019 22:02
I do hope he’s a better barrister than a ref,I really would not like my liberty being reliant on his total unbiased opinion.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
JohnJ of HM 18 May, 2019 22:23
I thought it was an absolute master class today. As also, though in a different vein, was his handling of the Ireland V New Zealand game in the Autumn Internationals. In fact he was consulting with his ARs and TMO throughout today. He had already checked with them whether there was a clear forward pass before Denny approached him.

I particularly liked his comment to his team after Denny's try: "I think that will make the cut for the season's highlights reel".

By some distance the best referee in the Northern hemisphere.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
clutch 18 May, 2019 22:25
Quote:
Crutch
And that in a nutshell is the entire problem.
Barnes wilfully ignores huge numbers of offences in the interests of making the game “entertaining”

I for one will not miss him one iota.

He wouldn’t be given the top games if he deliberately ignored things. That simple can’t be the case.
I think he missed a couple of forward passes in the second half but all refs do. Other than that I don’t see what he did wrong.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Crutch 18 May, 2019 23:08
A number were the ones that all refs are ignoring this season around ruck side entry and off feet.

However, he completely refused to ref the scrum. A number wheeled and disintegrated to the point that either a penalty or reset had to be given, but he just let them continue.

He gave nothing on rolling mauls despite offsides and side entries. No attention to offside line although both teams were pretty good in that respect. No crossing or accidental offsides despite repeat offences.
No not straight or interference at line outs.

No forward passes or even checking on them (where’s the harm in checking Wayne except to your ego?)

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Pappje Shark 18 May, 2019 23:22
Crutch - perhaps he has a feel for the game and trying to let it flow? I much prefer a Barnes or the French ref who lets scrums go as much as possible to get the ball back in play, in contrast to refs who ping every time whether knowing who is at fault or guessing so. Scrum whistle-fests are utterly boring.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Major Bloodnok 18 May, 2019 23:28
Before checking the grounding for their disallowed try, he checked for a forward pass. The consensus was that it wasn't forward, but there was a "knock-on, blue". I heard him on several occasions ask the TMO whether there was a knock-on. He also regularly asked his assistants if they'd seen anything on their side of the scrum.

I saw nothing in the scrums that I haven't seen elsewhere if you mean the ones where the front rows went up and it all got a bit messy. On a couple of occasions, he clearly told the players that the ball was available and to play it. Rolling mauls I heard him several times say that it was taken down by "own man". I distinctly remember a couple of pens for in at the side, along with several warnings after a line out of "do that again and it's a penalty".

What I saw was a fast, flowing, entertaining (if heart-stopping) game. Lots of defensive errors, sure, but that's down to the players, not the ref. What that game also had was a ridiculously low penalty count (given some past Sale matches) and I credit that entirely to Barnes's handling of the players by pre-empting problems. Good grief, if it had been Maxwell-Keys, we'd be complaining about how finicky he was - who was that was always accused of extreme pedantry as a way of being seen as the most important person on the field? Retired a couple of years back, IIRC.



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Somewhere in the South Stand

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Olyy 18 May, 2019 23:33
Aye, Barnes checked plenty but didn't disrupt the flow of the game.
He's the best at using the TMO in my opinion, gets them to check marginal stuff on the fly rather than blowing up and going to the big screen at every opportunity. It's the way it's meant to be used: Catch the bad stuff without ruining the entertainment of the viewer.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Crutch 18 May, 2019 23:40
If I could change one thing about the whole discussion of rugby it would be removing the desire to “let the game flow”

Just bin off the laws if there’s no need to follow them.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Crutch 18 May, 2019 23:44
Quote:
Olyy
Aye, Barnes checked plenty but didn't disrupt the flow of the game.
He's the best at using the TMO in my opinion, gets them to check marginal stuff on the fly rather than blowing up and going to the big screen at every opportunity. It's the way it's meant to be used: Catch the bad stuff without ruining the entertainment of the viewer.

Such as the Quins try with crossing that he refused to go back and check...

Asking the TMO in real time and them answering back within seconds means they’ve not looked at it properly. In which case they might as well not exist.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
clutch 18 May, 2019 23:54
Apply the laws correctly and we don’t have a viable product. We would a penalty every ruck. That’s not a recent issue. It’s been like that for ages. You have to let the game flow as long as it’s done consistently and safely.

Maxwell Keys has been good the last few games I’ve seen on TV.

The Quins try was a difficult one but he was spot on with the crossing that was spotted. There happened to be a further one, which no one else spotted.

Fortunately they didn’t spot the Webber knock on for our second try!! No idea how that was missed.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
Flumpty 19 May, 2019 08:35
Quote:
Crutch
If I could change one thing about the whole discussion of rugby it would be removing the desire to “let the game flow”
Just bin off the laws if there’s no need to follow them.

Crutch, just for my curiousity, which (if any) ref do you rate ?
The IRB, RFU, most pundits and rugby fans in general rate WB very highly - you give the impression that if he gave you a £10 note that you'd grumble that it wasn't a £20 note !

Re: Sir v Gloucester
H's D 19 May, 2019 09:34
Methinks Crutch has monocled jaundice.
Having met and chatted with Mr Barnes after a glass of French red on the pitch, I can verify that he is incredibly humble, self-effacing and a really honest straightforward bloke. Players have complete faith in him and respect him. His ref-link chat completely confirms it. Even Dimes respects him!

Re: Sir v Gloucester
DaveAitch 19 May, 2019 09:57
Was the glass of red imbibed on the pitch, or was Mr. Barnes met and chatted with on the pitch...or perhaps both. It's uncertain, too, who actually had this glass of wine.

I'm never quite sure what some want from a referee. The laws of rugby are too complex and complicated for any referee to turn in the prefect performance. Ping very slight misdemeanour and the game doesn't get past the first play, even if it gets that far. There are players offside at the kickoff, every kickoff, for a start, at the start.

One thing crutch did say that I completely agree with is that if a law has to be constantly ignored by the referee to allow the game to flow, then why not remove if from the law book. The scrum throw in situation was changed so the ball would be put in straight, but still almost guarantee the ball to the side putting in, but it has made no difference at all. It might be that it's the fault of the referees for not picking it up, but it is more likely that the powers that be have told them to referee it that way. And, of course, if they don't they will soon find themselves off the panel.

Re: Sir v Gloucester
H's D 19 May, 2019 17:47
The glass of wine was immediately after the Kilburn Cosmos v London French game in Barnes, Daveaitch. A very civilized tradition on the pitch for London French. Wayne also stayed on for comestibles in their shared "clubhouse", eventually cycling home in the evening.


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