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17 May, 2012 09:11 Report
yorkshireblue (IP Logged)
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The long awaited review
[www.leedscarnegie.com]

Main point -

Quote:
To increase support, our plan is to deepen our partnership with selected clubs around the County, notably Hull Ionians, York, Otley, Wharfedale and Huddersfield. We will take 3 of our home games to these clubs next season and work hard with them to create a real rugby occasion. For their part, each club will select two of our games at Headingley Carnegie to "bring their club", their players, fans, sponsors, juniors etc. It's what Yorkshire Cricket used to do - their home was Headingley, but they developed their membership throughout the County by taking matches to out grounds. Hopefully, this policy will see our core fan base increase and at the same time, boost attendances at our games at Headingley Carnegie.

So three home games will be played around Yorkshire at junior clubs next season.

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17 May, 2012 19:06 Report
Madtyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
I bet the ST holders will be happy, any chance they'll lay on buses to ship those who live in Leeds and surrounding areas out to these matches for free?



[www.arborfieldoldboys.co.uk]

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17 May, 2012 19:27 Report
Dartagnan Tyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
I am a ST holder and it sounds great to me - there are some terrific clubs out there which, with the exception of Wharfedale perhaps, aren't that difficult to get to.

At least they are trying something and it is only 3 games - why not give it a go?

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17 May, 2012 19:49 Report
Wildwillie (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
Dartagnan Tyke
At least they are trying something and it is only 3 games - why not give it a go?


...and we might get served some decent ale! (Sm63)



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17 May, 2012 20:53 Report
Bran (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
what about getting a decent game for a change? Just a thought....

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17 May, 2012 21:23 Report
almostatyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
Bran
what about getting a decent game for a change? Just a thought....
Just we we were getting excited about Real Ale.....



I wasn't born in Yorkshire, but I got here as soon as I could

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17 May, 2012 22:28 Report
Knavesmire (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Ah,but where woulds't we be without the power of negative thought.

I find GH's honesty refeshing and the idea of having a jolly up to Wharfedale for a home match a fine idea.

Can we play one of our home games at Rotherham?

;-)

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18 May, 2012 08:44 Report
yorkshireblue (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
The full review is available here

Apparently next season "We will continue to aim to play with an
attacking philosophy with a fi fteen man
gameplan with all players comfortable
with ball in hand and able to make
decisions"

Continue?

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18 May, 2012 09:08 Report
Leggs (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Could be the first step to leaving HC stadium.

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18 May, 2012 10:43 Report
Bibby (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
This romany-wandering-yorkshire team idea was around at about the time PD left.

Imagine if you'd got Caddick, the 2 Donny sugar daddies and the Rotherham yorkshire windows guy all to sing off the same hymn sheet and cooperate with each other, rather than compete and burn each other's money?

Might have worked, but I suspect not. The geographical and identity issues would have been a problem, but it would have been interesting if Yorkshire had acted like a Province, with Roth/Donny/us as senior-junior feeder clubs, if that makes sense - like Neath, Pontypridd and Swansea are now.

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18 May, 2012 16:21 Report
prawn cocktail (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
I assume the three games in question will be Cup games.

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18 May, 2012 17:10 Report
Timofe (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Only one is a cup game; two are league games. Maybe they coincide with the redevelopment of the South Stand?

It all sounds constructive to me (pun optional). Thanks to the Board for fronting up and letting us know what to expect.



Riding the Leeds roller-coaster since 2001

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20 May, 2012 14:15 Report
Tartan Tyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
Leggs
Could be the first step to leaving HC stadium.
I had the same thought,probably think it's not worth opening the stadium for less than 2,000 supporters.Leeds Rugby will save a fortune in not having to pay the fluorescent mafia,bar staff etc.
Sorry to be one of the Doomwatchers but I would say GH as just signed the death warrant on professional rugby union being played in Leeds

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20 May, 2012 16:14 Report
Wildwillie (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
Tartan Tyke
.Leeds Rugby will save a fortune in not having to pay the fluorescent mafia,bar staff etc.
Sorry to be one of the Doomwatchers but I would say GH as just signed the death warrant on professional rugby union being played in Leeds

Other Championship clubs have volunteer stewards. We could do the same - fluorescent hats already visible!



[www.northernpubs.co.uk]
[www.embsaywitheastbyallotments.org.uk]

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20 May, 2012 19:16 Report
Gelbel (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
WildWillie
Quote:
Tartan Tyke
.Leeds Rugby will save a fortune in not having to pay the fluorescent mafia,bar staff etc.
Sorry to be one of the Doomwatchers but I would say GH as just signed the death warrant on professional rugby union being played in Leeds

Other Championship clubs have volunteer stewards. We could do the same - fluorescent hats already visible!

I'm part certified.

(Sm30)

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20 May, 2012 19:29 Report
Wildwillie (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
.... and, in the opinion of my Paddock colleagues, I ought to be certified.

(Sm105)



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20 May, 2012 20:14 Report
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
WildWillie
.... and, in the opinion of my Paddock colleagues, I ought to be certified.
(Sm105)

I will endorse that. However, one of the problems with having volunteers I imagine, would be the need for everyone to have a CRB check, something I assume is automatic for the fluorescent jacket brigade. These cost about £50 a go, and I think the club would be concerned about forking out for that, unless there was some guarantee that the 'volunteers' would be available for every game.



COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

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20 May, 2012 20:47 Report
Wildwillie (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
The current stewarding is way over the top for a club of our diminishing gates/stature. I, for one, would be happy to help steward the stadium in a manner which would make a positive contribution to the "Headingley experience."



[www.northernpubs.co.uk]
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20 May, 2012 22:57 Report
Beeston Lion (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
But volunteer stewarding will not be sufficient for fifteen thousand at Rhinos fixtures, and I would expect that the availability of G4 stewards at Carnegie fixtures is a synergy resulting from fixed price contracts along with meeting needs of theoretical capacity of HC.

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22 May, 2012 10:34 Report
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Re: The long awaited review
Giving up home advantage for three games does not appear to signal that the club are determined to achieve a top four finish next season.



Love thy fellow man and be happy

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22 May, 2012 10:59 Report
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Re: The long awaited review
That was the first thing that struck me as well, Freddy

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22 May, 2012 11:35 Report
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Re: The long awaited review
There seems to be a lack of understanding here
the club has to build support from the Rugby community in the county and in the short term has to take the mountain to mohamed so to speak.
Leeds=Yorkshire and visa versa
Our support has to come from the 120 rugby clubs in the Yorkshire region not people in yellow hats based locally

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22 May, 2012 12:27 Report
Bran (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
you want a fan base you need to perform, where you perform is irrelivent.

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22 May, 2012 12:44 Report
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Re: The long awaited review
Just out of interest trundle

I live in Worcestershire

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22 May, 2012 12:46 Report
Rocky's Dad (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Just out of interest trundle

I live in Worcestershire

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22 May, 2012 13:05 Report
prawn cocktail (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Trundle, the objective is to get promoted. Playing home games at home tends to be a good idea if one wants to maximise points. Incidentally, I live just outside Huddersfield, one of the options mentioned. As someone who has a season ticket with hospitality, there are issues that don't seem to have been addressed.

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22 May, 2012 13:50 Report
Rocky The Tyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
To be honest Trundle I think you will find most of those who wear yellow hats are actually from outside of Leeds.

I dont disagree that we need to spread our appeal however the tribal nature of Yorkshire makes this very difficult. This tribal nature not only applies to location but also to following of specific sports as witnessed by some of the inane comments on the YEP website whenever a Leeds Carnegie article is published.

As a club we need to attract the following:
- Young rugby union players through links with schools and sports,
- the student population, short term maybe (although I only came to Leeds as a student and still follow the team), but the student population can be brought in with deals and, if the product is good, they will come back,
- disaffected ex-supporters who got fed up and walked away, we cannot be proud as it is numbers we need,
- families - if you can make it appealing for families to come you get, not only footfall, but the associated spending whilst there.

Getting people in is one thing (witness some of the massive attendances we have had) but keeping people coming back is the challenge. To do this the product has to be right, the product includes the team performance (needs to be exciting and attractive), the stadium (needs to be welcoming to Leeds Carnegie/Tykes fans and make sure they feel part of the club), the staff (please send G4S on a training course to get rid of their attitude and self agrandizing behavior), the food and drink (meat that once came from an animal and beer that wasnt found in a drainpipe would be appreciated).

The fact is implementing these things is not difficult, a few pictures and shirts in the "Leeds Carnegie Cafe Bar", a single keg of Leeds Brewery ale, a BBQ or at least a decent burger van and then, the easy bit, a win (hopefully).

In the past a lot of money has been spent (or wasted) on marketing without addressing these issues first. You can always get someone to attend once but if they think it is sh......shocking, they wont come back. Get the infrastructure and the "Rugby Union Club" aspect sorted and then start marketing.

As a club we have had many opportunities to solidify out place at the top table but they have either been let down by poor performance, poor management or poor acquisitions (or a combo of all 3) which leaves us as a mid-table Championship side. We need to return to first principals and what made us a Prem team in the first place.

The backroom team need to be the ones to stand up and be counted because, with poor management of the club and squad, we will stagnate and go backwards.

Equate it to a Gordon Ramsey Kitchen Nightmare, we are bloated and over complicated serving up a dish no-one wants. All he suggests is, freshen it up, kick the management up the @#$%&, simplify your product with good quality and then keep it up and dont take your eye off the ball.

It isnt rocket science.



__________________________________

The time for reminiscing is after rugby. Then you can sit down and get fat.

Quote from Josh Lewsey

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22 May, 2012 17:11 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Well said Rocky.

I've resisted commenting about the content of the review, but you sum up my feelings very well.

I'm not sure we are moving forwards...but rather marking time I'm afraid.

But I hope to be proved wrong(Sm134)

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22 May, 2012 19:02 Report
almostatyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
Freddy
Giving up home advantage for three games does not appear to signal that the club are determined to achieve a top four finish next season.
OK a risk but given that our opposition has probably to travel further (into the unknown) and that we will get the chance (I imagine) to practice on the playing pitch for a week or so, IMHO a risk worth taking for the long-term benefit.
Our best performances. alas, came away from home last season.

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22 May, 2012 20:27 Report
leemingtyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Build a winning team made up of Leeds Carnegie players that plays good exciting rugby for the shirt, for the club and for each other, a team that the fans can be proud of and we will come to watch them.

Settle for being Sale's feeder club and I for one wont waste my time or money on a directionless club with no ambition.

Simples!

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22 May, 2012 22:31 Report
JDH (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
we might play better at someone elses ground than we do at our own!

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22 May, 2012 22:39 Report
*baldric* (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Spot on JDH - last season we tended to be better away than at home. I remember one comment during the season suggesting the team should be put on a coach and driven around for three hours before letting them into HC - they might play better!



Still a Tyke - whatever the name!

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22 May, 2012 22:45 Report
JDH (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
i wonder whether the new found reality of where we are will make the match day experience more enjoyable?

for the last couple of seasons we have been told top 6 in the AP and promotion (taken with a pinch of salt by most) but next seasons top 4 aim might calm us down abit?

i still go to every leeds game expecting they will win but if they dont prehaps i may not be so disgruntled, if the effort was there that is!

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23 May, 2012 07:11 Report
BorisTheBear (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
There are some interesting comments about the report from players/recent ex players. They seem a little dubious about it's content.

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23 May, 2012 08:45 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
BorisTheBear
There are some interesting comments about the report from players/recent ex players. They seem a little dubious about it's content.


Are you going to share their comments with us Boris?

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23 May, 2012 09:18 Report
Mark_C (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Come on Boris, let's get the mischief out the way before the season starts!

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23 May, 2012 09:21 Report
Rocky The Tyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
williamwebbellis
Quote:
BorisTheBear
There are some interesting comments about the report from players/recent ex players. They seem a little dubious about it's content.


Are you going to share their comments with us Boris?

Lots of comments have been made mainly about 'interesting interpretations' and it being 'fictitious'.

Generally they are holding their tongue but you do get a sense of frustration from ex and current players.



__________________________________

The time for reminiscing is after rugby. Then you can sit down and get fat.

Quote from Josh Lewsey

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23 May, 2012 09:30 Report
BorisTheBear (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Rocky has nailed it.

They are attempting to remain dignified, and the comments are suggestive amongst themselves. Big Mac is the most outspoken accusing the club of 'slitting wrists'

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23 May, 2012 09:36 Report
Mark_C (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
I will be more concerned if it is the current crop of players that are making comments. At the end of the day they are the (arguably) most impoprtant people at the club, and if they are not happy then we do have problems.

Big Mac's comments would be more interesting to me if I knew the context in which he is making them. As a long-serving former player, he has been with the club through good and bad times. Given the lack of finances presently coming in to the club I can understand his sentiments.

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23 May, 2012 10:16 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
There will be players who are still in contract who have not been happy at work all season. Happy seems the wrong word to use but I hope you know what I mean.

Those players will not be enthralled to see the likes of Mac, a Leeds Hero, a good bloke and a reliable and loyal team member disappearing… and the root of the seasons problems staying, ie Diccon Edwards.

So, unfortunately we do still have problems.

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23 May, 2012 11:12 Report
exheadingley (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
I am with www all the way

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23 May, 2012 12:23 Report
leemingtyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
me too,

DE and Titts were a bit of a nightmare partnership last season imho.

My gut feeling is that DE really isnt the man to pull us round but it looks like were going to find out. Massive season for him

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23 May, 2012 13:05 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Leemingtyke, there was NO partnership between Andy and DE.

I’d be surprised if there was much amiable dialogue between the two of them let alone the potential for a positive or successful partnership.

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23 May, 2012 13:09 Report
Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Where can we see Mac's comments? I have travelled all over watching Leeds Carnegie, and it hurts to read about subterfuge, sub plots, and even more sub plots. Let's have everything out in the open, thrash out the problems, and start from scratch.
If that means re-signing Mac, Blackett and Scotty then let's do it!!



COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

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23 May, 2012 17:17 Report
Wildwillie (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
Haxbytyke
Where can we see Mac's comments? I have travelled all over watching Leeds Carnegie, and it hurts to read about subterfuge, sub plots, and even more sub plots. Let's have everything out in the open, thrash out the problems, and start from scratch.
If that means re-signing Mac, Blackett and Scotty then let's do it!!

Hax you will have to start Tw**ting - all the gos' is on there!



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23 May, 2012 17:42 Report
Rocky The Tyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Mikes Twitter Page



__________________________________

The time for reminiscing is after rugby. Then you can sit down and get fat.

Quote from Josh Lewsey

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23 May, 2012 18:23 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Rocky, your link takes me to Lee Blackett tweets?

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23 May, 2012 18:27 Report
Haxbytyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
It only asks me to sign up so I'm still no wiser.!!!!



COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

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23 May, 2012 18:28 Report
yorkshireblue (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
This should work [twitter.com]

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23 May, 2012 18:57 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
Haxbytyke
It only asks me to sign up so I'm still no wiser.!!!!

Get with it Hax(Sm23) I JOINED! I am now officially a twitterer... Although I don't think I will be tweeting unless I can find someone to explain the use of the # key etc(Sm6) My kids will be sooooo impressed!

Thanks YB your link took me straight there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 23/05/2012 18:58 by williamwebbellis.

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23 May, 2012 19:13 Report
leemingtyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
williamwebbellis
Leemingtyke, there was NO partnership between Andy and DE.
I’d be surprised if there was much amiable dialogue between the two of them let alone the potential for a positive or successful partnership.

No dialogue between Head Coach and Captain, and neither of them did anything about it, unbelievable!

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23 May, 2012 20:51 Report
JDH (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
if last years senior players who have now left didnt get on with DE and visa versa and DE wrote the report of course they will reckon its bollo

as said, its all DE's next season so lets see what team he assembles and how it plays for him the club and the fans

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23 May, 2012 21:33 Report
Mark_C (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
thumbs down

The ball's in his court now,let's see how he plays it.

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23 May, 2012 21:34 Report
almostatyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
JDH
if last years senior players who have now left didnt get on with DE and visa versa and DE wrote the report of course they will reckon its bollo
as said, its all DE's next season so lets see what team he assembles and how it plays for him the club and the fans
Agreed. DE's defence is that he did not have any say in the squad starting last season - it's hard to argue with that. So this season he has no excuses and must come up with the goods - let's hope so!



I wasn't born in Yorkshire, but I got here as soon as I could

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24 May, 2012 08:37 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Rocky, having spent sometime in twitterland...

I noticed a tweet from Gareth Jones on your page,

CEO Hetherington says they are open to hearing from potential new owners for #leedscarnegie ."We've never been precious about ownership"

I don't remember reading anything about that in the review?

Do you know anymore? When/where did GH say that?

It fits with my overiding thoughts that the club is now marking time but I am surprised I have missed reading about it.

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24 May, 2012 08:59 Report
Rocky The Tyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
WWE, Gareth's comment came from a discussion he had with Hetherington where they admitted they (the club) were always on the look out for investment. This has heightened since Caddick has decided to not bankroll us.

There is no takeover imminent but the club are putting noises out to anyone who would like to invest. It would be nice if it were to happen but realistically there are not many who are keen to invest in this or any club at the moment.



__________________________________

The time for reminiscing is after rugby. Then you can sit down and get fat.

Quote from Josh Lewsey

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24 May, 2012 09:11 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Thanks Rocky,

Is it a very recent discussion? I think Gareth's comment was dated 18/5 or is it older news?

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24 May, 2012 09:37 Report
Rocky The Tyke (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
It was from a discussion which was centred around the review so only about a week ago.



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The time for reminiscing is after rugby. Then you can sit down and get fat.

Quote from Josh Lewsey

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24 May, 2012 09:45 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Thanks Rocky.

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24 May, 2012 10:05 Report
Bibby (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
The problem is that we don't mean invest, because that implies a potential return. What we mean is sink loads money in a money pit, and keep doing so for ever. Oh, and put up with the odd nightmare prima donna player and the ungrateful fans who turn on you at the first bump in the road. Thankless. No wonder PC is jaundiced. He's been fantastic, but got nowhere near the credit he deserved.

Professional sport is a financial basket case.

Finally got round to reading moneyball - fascinating on the subject of pro sport, money and player value. Try it.

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24 May, 2012 10:57 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Moneyball?

Is there a book? just googled it and came up with references to a film.

I Would be interested to know Bibby, I like a good read.

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24 May, 2012 11:02 Report
Mark_C (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review

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24 May, 2012 12:11 Report
datz (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Hethringtons comments were part of an interview broadcast on WYS one evening.

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24 May, 2012 13:35 Report
williamwebbellis (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:

Thanks Mark.

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24 May, 2012 13:59 Report
Leggs (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
By the way, our new DOR is Chris Gibson. Who the hell is he and what Rugby experience has he got ?

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24 May, 2012 14:04 Report
Mark_C (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
"A former Wakefield and Yorkshire Rugby Union
player, Chris enjoyed a distinguished playing record in
Rugby League with Leeds and York before embarking
on a career in the legal field with Solicitors, Walker
Morris and is now full time at Leeds Rugby"

Hire'em Fire'em bloke methinks....

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24 May, 2012 14:09 Report
trundle134 (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
obviously someone who knows all about rugby union and its potential and how to get the media to take it seriously!!!!!!

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24 May, 2012 14:12 Report
Loosehead (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
Bibby
The problem is that we don't mean invest, because that implies a potential return. What we mean is sink loads money in a money pit, and keep doing so for ever. Oh, and put up with the odd nightmare prima donna player and the ungrateful fans who turn on you at the first bump in the road. Thankless. No wonder PC is jaundiced. He's been fantastic, but got nowhere near the credit he deserved.
Professional sport is a financial basket case.

Finally got round to reading moneyball - fascinating on the subject of pro sport, money and player value. Try it.

I mentioned this last year,that Leeds would do well to spend a few ££ to read the book. I think RU would be able to follow a similar model, and what type of players to look for you would need an expanded scout network, some film of them playing as well, as well as very good stat site.

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24 May, 2012 14:16 Report
Loosehead (IP Logged)
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Re: The long awaited review
Quote:
trundle134
obviously someone who knows all about rugby union and its potential and how to get the media to take it seriously!!!!!!

His job is DoR and will be mainly to do with signing players, contracts, budget constraints etc

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24 May, 2012 14:28 Report
Rocky The Tyke (IP Logged)
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Date Joined: Jan, 2005
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Re: The long awaited review
Gibson has been handling a lot of the contract negotiations recently.



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The time for reminiscing is after rugby. Then you can sit down and get fat.

Quote from Josh Lewsey

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