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Any news?
Discussion started by SideStep (IP Logged), 28 May, 2019 13:35
MESSAGES->author
SideStep
28 May, 2019 13:35
I know the answer to this will be no but it's ridiculous we have heard nothing from the club in what seems forever.



The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos

headingleytyke
headingleytyke
28 May, 2019 18:35
Never expect anything from our club

AnIdiotAbroad
AnIdiotAbroad
28 May, 2019 19:01
Might be waiting for Lady Geech to tweet? It does make me smile when the more naïve forum followers say how 'transparent' the club have been with comms. Oh my days, if comms have been transparent I dread to think what being kept in the dark feels like....

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
28 May, 2019 20:19
My name is Steve Naïve then. How can the club commentate on confidential club to player negotiations?
We are frustrated but anyone involved in real world of business will understand that you cannot publicise everything until matters are finalised.

AnIdiotAbroad
AnIdiotAbroad
28 May, 2019 20:41
I don't think anyone expects confidential information to be shared but if you think the club has shared as much as it can then I guess we have to agree to disagree. The snipe about anyone involved in real world of business was a tad personal for me. Enjoy your evening Steve....

MESSAGES->author
Albert Fishwick
28 May, 2019 22:14
I'm not sure there are any players left to negotiate with! To me it seems likely that the discussion is about whether the club has any basis to continue.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

MESSAGES->author
Madtyke
28 May, 2019 22:15
YC have until 30th June to announce if they are to continue playing in the Championship or are going down the London Welsh route of imploding in obscurity. I suspect the former due to the lack of funding/player/Coach availability. As a Leeds Tykes/LC/YC supporter being kept in the dark is normal but I wish they'd break the habit of a lifetime and drip feed us or string us all a line.



[www.arborfieldoldboys.co.uk]

Tyko
Tyko
28 May, 2019 23:43
Don't you mean the latter?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/05/2019 23:44 by Tyko.

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
29 May, 2019 09:56
Quote:
almostatyke
My name is Steve Naïve then. How can the club commentate on confidential club to player negotiations?
We are frustrated but anyone involved in real world of business will understand that you cannot publicise everything until matters are finalised.

Almo, seriously, I'd be interested to know who you think is negotiating with who given that we have no DOR, no Head Coach, no players and no money?

haxbytyke
Haxbytyke
29 May, 2019 10:16
Quote:
leemingtyke
Quote:
almostatyke
My name is Steve Naïve then. How can the club commentate on confidential club to player negotiations?
We are frustrated but anyone involved in real world of business will understand that you cannot publicise everything until matters are finalised.

Almo, seriously, I'd be interested to know who you think is negotiating with who given that we have no DOR, no Head Coach, no players and no money?

And in the League Express, our PR Manager is waxing lyrical about the excellence of the communication methods used at the Rhinos. Must have forgotten about communicating with Carnegie.



COME ON LEEDS.
We've been through it all together.

AnIdiotAbroad
AnIdiotAbroad
29 May, 2019 16:30
At this moment in time the most senior staff member in the rugby department is the Academy Manager. And Lazo is one of the very few left with any integrity at the club.

Worse kept secret in last few weeks announced today that Steve Boden has joined Knights on a 2 year contract as Assistant Coach. I personally wish him all the very best - Bodes has been exceptional in my view and will no doubt raise performance levels at castle Park.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
29 May, 2019 16:35
We have 8 players contracted for next season and unless they all agree to waive their entitlements for next season then the club cannot proceed. These are the negotiations to which I referred.

MESSAGES->author
Albert Fishwick
29 May, 2019 18:04
But aren't most of those the reinforcements we signed in mid-season? I'm sure I've seen somewhere that they are either taking up options elsewhere or going back to NZ.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
29 May, 2019 19:00
Can you name the 8, because I think some of them may have secured moves.

And also, there is no one for them to negotiate with. That would be the DORs job.

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
29 May, 2019 20:59
All the eight players are amongst those recruited from NZ, but until all have waived their entitlement (and this means more than a twitter message - I am going back to NZ), then the club cannot move forward. In parallel there is the alleged £250k overspend from last season which the shareholders might or might not fund.

All this was made clear at the fans meeting at Headingley. OK frustrating that we do not have any updates, but I am sure if there is any good news to share it will be broadcast immediately.


IMHO no news is bad news, but criticising the club for not saying anything when there is probably nothing to say doesn't help.

Steve Naive

headingleytyke
headingleytyke
29 May, 2019 21:35
Perhaps we could supplement the team with members of theforum. I played 2nd row/ no 8 . Mind you it was 45 years ago

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
29 May, 2019 22:04
OK, so you mean the club (presumably Mr Dockray, Chris Gibson maybe - in the absence of anyone else) negotiating the premature end of the contracts of the players we signed towards the end of 2018, not negotiating deals for new players.

By my reckoning two of those players have gone, thats:

Tom Hill (going to Nottingham)
Cian Romaine (going to Pirates)

Which leaves:

Fa'atiga Lemalu
Nic Mayhew
Antonio Kiri Kiri
Jade Te Rure
Elijah Niko (who I think is rumoured to be going to play RL somewhere)

and one other who I can't think of?

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
30 May, 2019 09:41
Thoroughgood.


It would be interesting to know what their general demeanour is: are they bitter at lost promises or grateful for an, albeit brief, spell in Leeds in a successful team?

On one hand it has been a shop window for them but I imagine that is overshadowed by the "fire sale" environment whereby they are only likely to get a cut-price deal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/05/2019 09:47 by almostatyke.

MESSAGES->author
Competitive Dad
30 May, 2019 11:30
Broken promises, tuck in a foreign land and either having to find a job or pay for their relocation back home. I can imagine their general demeanor is on the GRIM side

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
30 May, 2019 14:07
I believe that the club made a promise to honour last season's wage commitments in full and I am pretty sure that would include an end of season flight home as part of the package (unless someone knows better?).

Does anyone understand the NZ rugby scene, doesn't the Currie Cup start half way through their season?

JDH1
JDH1
30 May, 2019 21:03
[www.yorkshirecarnegie.com]

Fox gone to bath. He will be some player.

Also lists those who have gone

MESSAGES->author
almostatyke
30 May, 2019 21:16
Confirms the ongoing problem with the NZ players who have 2019/20 contracts IMHO.

Yorki
Yorki
30 May, 2019 21:36
I am not too sure the club can stop this free fall they going through now.

The heart of the club has gone, I feel very sorry for the players from NZ it appears they are looking for another job or waiting to be paid off, The latter looks very slim with the club in such difficult financial situation (skint).

If YC scrape themselves out of this situation I will be amazed. I hope I am wrong and the club restarts again from where it started in the late 1990's.

I have read most comments and I think every body has raised very valid points about the club and its management but we have never got the crowds and therefore not enough income.

It is very sad situation and for me it has made me question my interest in Rugby Union as a game. I do not like the kick chase style of play and the professional tactics to win ugly.
The money is not letting the game develop it just floats to the top for the few elite clubs.

Maybe I am just getting old

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
30 May, 2019 22:26
Yeah, a very sad situation indeed Yorki.

I just wanted to see us as a permanent fixture in the Premiership at the new Headingley. Despite people's misgivings, I believe the attendances would grow over time; not enough to make us 'sustainable' maybe but nor are 11 of the 12 clubs currently in the Prem based on attendances. But I think the supporter base would've grown enough to create a decent atmosphere in a fantastic stadium.

I don't believe there's any hope of us surviving this close season so I guess I'll just follow England and the Lions next year without having any allegiance to a club side. Just a waste of time and effort if your hearts not in it.

Tyko
Tyko
31 May, 2019 14:44
Maybe someone can check the stats but I seem to recall that back in the day- when we were in the Prem - neither Falcons or Sale, or even Sarries, were getting many more than us through the gate. If only we could have got that extra point at Saints and stayed up in the Prem who know how things would have turned out.

JDH1
JDH1
31 May, 2019 14:58
There's always hope

JDH1
JDH1
31 May, 2019 15:00
Attendance would increase if we were competing well in the prem. Without that you rely on a club feel to generate crowds which we don't have.

JohnRich
JohnRich
01 June, 2019 11:00
Madtyke suggests 30 June for deliverance.....whichever way.

My recollection of the last meeting upstairs at Carnegie was that David D mentioned end of May for sorting the finances out, (assuming their are any?)

That date is now past Do we hold our breath...................or walk away?

AnIdiotAbroad
AnIdiotAbroad
01 June, 2019 11:18
31 May is the end of the season for players just contracted to end of the 2018/19 playing season. I understand there were still 3 of the alleged 8 contracted players for 2019/20 still to agree a settlement (as of last week-end). I suspect the odd announcement will filter through from new clubs with pre-seasons about to start, That will include names of the actual 8 rather than the speculated 8 as there are names not yet included in those posts who are in that group.

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
01 June, 2019 19:30
Bear in mind it's the Rugby Paper, but....

[twitter.com]

Scuffer
Scuffer
01 June, 2019 20:36
What is left at the club? There is no coach, no DOR, there are no players! How can we hope to continue next season? Pre-season must be due to start shortly but there’s nobody at home.

JDH1
JDH1
01 June, 2019 20:56
Mr newcombe is normally right. Fingers crossed hey

JDH1
JDH1
01 June, 2019 22:22
Good or bad news..... ? Me thinks bad

AnIdiotAbroad
AnIdiotAbroad
01 June, 2019 22:28
If ever there was a post on twitter that sums up the disgraceful way the club have not communicated with players then read Lewis Wilsons tweet. Embarrassing way to treat staff and players.

JDH1
JDH1
01 June, 2019 22:34
Read it. That's why I reckon it's bad. Cue another fans meeting?..

JDH1
JDH1
01 June, 2019 23:06
Or would Mr Newcombe put it a bit differently if we were going out?

MESSAGES->author
Rocky
02 June, 2019 06:50
Well the headline ‘Carnegie facing oblivion’ doesn’t bode well.

JDH1
JDH1
02 June, 2019 07:40
Any new details?

headingleytyke
headingleytyke
02 June, 2019 09:23
Have seen the article. It says YC made the overseas players an offer which was much less than they had been offered. Three players will not accept that. The club is applying for a CVA . If we don't get that we are doomed.

MESSAGES->author
Albert Fishwick
02 June, 2019 09:26
Even if we do it's a tough road to the next season.

I can understand the contracted players being highly disgruntled but I've always thought it better to have a fraction of something rather than 100% of nowt.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

Feeding
Feeding
02 June, 2019 09:44
It also essentially states that we can't sign any new players until the financial position is resolved.

JDH1
JDH1
02 June, 2019 10:18
Same same then

Yorki
Yorki
02 June, 2019 10:24
What is a CVA?

headingleytyke
headingleytyke
02 June, 2019 10:29
A CVA Is a creditors voluntary arrangement.

AnIdiotAbroad
AnIdiotAbroad
02 June, 2019 10:44
The acronym stands for 'Company Voluntary Arrangement' - no real difference from an IVA for an individual albeit in the commercial world.

Latest tweet from Jon Newcombe suggests ring fencing of Champ this coming season, a ray of sunshine perhaps? Also a suggestion that the CVA threat was (allegedly) a tactic to encourage players who had not agreed a settlement to do so.

Whatever the truth it sounds a real mess. I feel for the likes of Lewis Wilson and Scott Barrow who are relying on the media for clarity it seems.

Feeding
Feeding
02 June, 2019 11:11
Doe he mean there would be no relegation if the Championship consisted of only 11 clubs,or no relegation even if we are included? If the later,what would the champions of Nat 1 think?

AnIdiotAbroad
AnIdiotAbroad
02 June, 2019 11:45
Suggestion was Championship would extend to 14 clubs. That in tandem with prem going to 13 (possibly with assumption Falcons will go back up next season). No real details after that but if it is the case then promotion would stay in place from Nat1 until such a time the 14 team Champ league is in place (and that will impact the N2 leagues).

Without the possibility of promotion to the prem you can see budgets dropping substantially and a worrying line of progression from the Champ to the Prem being compromised - either that or the prem clubs develop more even more players thru the Champ or work more closely with the Uni's with Super BUCS rugby?

It will change but may be there is a more sustainable pathway for young talent than is at first obvious.

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
02 June, 2019 15:35
It seems that players and coaches are finding out about this on Twitter from The Rugby Paper story.

An absolute disgrace.

Just put us out of our misery now FFS. The people in positions of authority at Carnegie aren't up to it. They just don't care. It's embarrassing.

Yorki
Yorki
02 June, 2019 18:57
I appreciate this may be a left of field statement at the present moment. But if the championship is to be degrade to academy sides in principle by ring fencing. It makes a complete mockery of relegation from the premiership by a full time professional out fit like Newcastle. The standard and physical magnitude of their squad is going blow away any championship side. I would argue that it could get to point where there is duty of care issue towards the young lads in the championship sides. The difference in standards between the premiership and the championship will be huge.

Johnflinn
NOM
02 June, 2019 19:38
Whilst there are company laws to be followed regarding the solvency of the club the RFU could have acted by now.

YC were relegation candidates until they recruited a group of players they clearly could not afford (in hindsight but now a fact) to get out of trouble.

Along with the Hartpury sham the Championship has been shambles this season with this scenario and the Mickey Mouse cup scheduling.

The other clubs will suffer if it turns out to be an 11 team league next season- losing revenue from a home fixture is material.

The RFU should have acted by now and those clubs who have failed to support their league position by genuine means should be relegated; take your pick between Hartpury and YC but it is hard to see why Richmond got the drop in these circumstances.

The game deserves better from the RFU, sadly when leadership is needed they have been found wanting and unable to take care of their own affairs whilst this chaos has reigned.

MESSAGES->author
Zandra LaPoI
02 June, 2019 19:50
So, with ring fencing in the Champ, (if that is gen), meaning we may be able to 'compete' with a squad of part timers why spunk the best part of £100k on remaining at HC? I get the excellent stadium and training facilities, however, surely that money could be best spent elsewhere?

At the moment, having a stadium worthy of Prem Rugby is the last thing we need to thinking about as that is about as big a pipe dream as you can get.

Seems a shocking waste of cash that we can't afford.

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
02 June, 2019 19:57
Quote:
NOM
Whilst there are company laws to be followed regarding the solvency of the club the RFU could have acted by now.
YC were relegation candidates until they recruited a group of players they clearly could not afford (in hindsight but now a fact) to get out of trouble.

Along with the Hartpury sham the Championship has been shambles this season with this scenario and the Mickey Mouse cup scheduling.

The other clubs will suffer if it turns out to be an 11 team league next season- losing revenue from a home fixture is material.

The RFU should have acted by now and those clubs who have failed to support their league position by genuine means should be relegated; take your pick between Hartpury and YC but it is hard to see why Richmond got the drop in these circumstances.

The game deserves better from the RFU, sadly when leadership is needed they have been found wanting and unable to take care of their own affairs whilst this chaos has reigned.

I get your point,

In our defence I would say that we could, or rather were told by our main benefactor that we could, afford it at the time. It was only when he later and unexpectedly withdrew his support that we couldn't.

This in no way excuses the way the club has been run which has been shambolic and amateurish.

Johnflinn
NOM
02 June, 2019 20:32
Appreciated Leemingtyke, it was not a dig at the club from outside - I am born and bred Yorkshire with family still in Leeds.

My shot is 100% at the RFU - they continue to preside over the deconstruction of our game whilst the Premiership hand gets stronger.

Yorki
Yorki
02 June, 2019 21:16
The problem with RFU like most large institutions in this country there are too many people milking the system when times are good and everybody thinks the good times will keep rolling. They now have financial problems it seems they cannot afford to repair the roof at Twickers. No money set aside for maintenance - incredible!

Who ever decided at YC it was prudent to sign players on contracts without guaranteed funding should be sacked or where they just desperate to keep themselves in a job and live in hope?

the club is knackered the management have kicked the can down the road and are stuck with no way out of the mess.

The YC situation is like a mini Leeds United fiasco under David O Leary and Peter Ridesdale living in hope of getting into European championship final with a debit of £110m.

Sorry just ranting on - old mans syndrome.

MESSAGES->author
leemingtyke
02 June, 2019 22:16
I believe that the RFU have wilfully allowed the Championship to wither on the vine, whilst making disingenuous statements of commitment to it's future.

But

I think that is a separate issue and we should be careful not to use it as an excuse for our present situation. That is a brick wall that we've been careering towards for several years and we've had opportunities to turn off.

Chronic mismanagement is the reason we are where we are. The incompetence at HQ has been at least matched at Headingley IMHO

MESSAGES->author
Competitive Dad
03 June, 2019 11:50
From Rolling Maul

"The Mond have been instructed not to post their fixtures on the web site
If you are away supporter coming to the Mond hold back
1 if we are in NAT 1 none of our home fixtures have a SET time as we share the ground with LS
LS have first choice, as they are in a higher league, they have can choose when they play
Championship fixtures have not been decided yet due to problems already documented in other threads
2 we may not be in that league "

JDH1
JDH1
03 June, 2019 12:23
The board and shareholders need to find a way through.

Yorki
Yorki
03 June, 2019 17:54
I see Rob Oates is struggling with the financial crisis at YC - From the beach in Portugal - on twitter. Planned holidays have to be taken but publishing on a social media when the club is in such a situation beggars belief.

JDH1
JDH1
03 June, 2019 19:12
Considering the commercial crisis I thought he would be speaking at the last meeting. He was there.

headingleytyke
headingleytyke
03 June, 2019 19:34
No one wants to take the blame. Not me guv

JDH1
JDH1
03 June, 2019 20:15
I suppose Jon Wright has to take a fair share.
Open question but what involvement does Mike bidgood have now? I don't think he has missed a game has he?

MESSAGES->author
Albert Fishwick
03 June, 2019 20:20
Don't know whether he saw the writing on the wall or just has good timing but he retired some time last year.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

AnIdiotAbroad
AnIdiotAbroad
03 June, 2019 20:33
Rob Oates seems to holding up well under pressure. That is if his tweet from the beach on his Algarve holiday is anything to go by. As you hash-tagged Rob.... #mot

Impeccable timing.....

JDH1
JDH1
03 June, 2019 20:38
I saw him at the meeting but didn't know what involvement he still had.
The whole things just so bloody disappointing. Would you want to be responsible for the death of the club?
Why wasn't dave d mentioned in the latest statement?

Billy ba
Billy ba
03 June, 2019 21:29
Jon Wright probably realised the situation and was wise enough not to invest..

JDH1
JDH1
03 June, 2019 21:56
And therefore had a major hand in killing the club. Pi $$ poor show from him imo.

Yorki
Yorki
03 June, 2019 22:25
Has there been any formal statement from YC or Jon Wright as to why he decided not continue funding the club?

MESSAGES->author
Albert Fishwick
03 June, 2019 22:29
Not that I'm aware of. The accounts of the gym business don't seem to make for very happy reading but I have no idea what his personal situation might be.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

JDH1
JDH1
04 June, 2019 09:26
I am sure there are good reasons but the result has been dire.

Tower
Tower
04 June, 2019 11:09
You all appear to be extremely hard on Rob Oates why should a pre book holiday came under such fire from you it is all such sour grapes.

We are in a terrible mess and having a go at one person just makes you out to be grumpy old people and not helping the situation.

Anyone got any bright ideas on the way forward?

Or are you just going to moan.

We are all hurting.

MESSAGES->author
Gelbel
04 June, 2019 12:38
Only person I am grumpy with is Jon Wright - how can he stand up in front of people and say he was putting a load of money in and just a few weeks later (from the timing Chris told us) not have the money?

I can't see how he didn't know he was lying out of his backside.

IMHO he's got a hell of a lot to answer for and that's putting it mildly.

JDH1
JDH1
04 June, 2019 12:58
Agreed

Wharfedale1985
Wharfedale1985
04 June, 2019 13:19
John sounds like he comes out with a fair bit of bull.

Tower
Tower
04 June, 2019 13:48
Quote:
Gelbel
Only person I am grumpy with is Jon Wright - how can he stand up in front of people and say he was putting a load of money in and just a few weeks later (from the timing Chris told us) not have the money?
I can't see how he didn't know he was lying out of his backside.

IMHO he's got a hell of a lot to answer for and that's putting it mildly.


Totally agree with this. What that man has done to our club is terrible.

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
04 June, 2019 14:15
Quote:
Tower
You all appear to be extremely hard on Rob Oates why should a pre book holiday came under such fire from you it is all such sour grapes.
We are in a terrible mess and having a go at one person just makes you out to be grumpy old people and not helping the situation.

Anyone got any bright ideas on the way forward?

Or are you just going to moan.

We are all hurting.

Perhaps we should be extremely hard on Jon Wright. Oh wait, you just have been. (Sm124)

Tower
Tower
04 June, 2019 14:55
Quote:
Wildwillie
Quote:
Tower
You all appear to be extremely hard on Rob Oates why should a pre book holiday came under such fire from you it is all such sour grapes.
We are in a terrible mess and having a go at one person just makes you out to be grumpy old people and not helping the situation.

Anyone got any bright ideas on the way forward?

Or are you just going to moan.

We are all hurting.

Perhaps we should be extremely hard on Jon Wright. Oh wait, you just have been. (Sm124)

Oh come on hardly !!!! Saying what he done is terrible is that extremely hard? Various people on here was having a go about a man on a holiday.

Wharfedale1985
Wharfedale1985
04 June, 2019 15:12
Borderline criminal whats gone on lets be honest.

MESSAGES->author
Wildwillie
04 June, 2019 15:23
Quote:
Tower
.... and having a go at one person just makes you out to be grumpy old people and not helping the situation.

Welcome to the miserati Tower! (Sm22)

Yorki
Yorki
04 June, 2019 17:23
People are entitled to holidays and it very awkward when times are difficult and I expect it was agreed by management. But in light of the pending collapse of YC it lacks tacked in the circumstances to advertise what a great time you are having when players are struggling for their jobs.

You can put it another way he may not be bothered and that would reflect the clubs attitude in some quarters of Leeds rugby. So should I be surprised?

Hornchurch
Hornchurch
04 June, 2019 17:41
Quote:
Yorki
People are entitled to holidays and it very awkward when times are difficult and I expect it was agreed by management. But in light of the pending collapse of YC it lacks tacked in the circumstances to advertise what a great time you are having when players are struggling for their jobs.
You can put it another way he may not be bothered and that would reflect the clubs attitude in some quarters of Leeds rugby. So should I be surprised?



Disagree Yorki

I really do not believe for one moment that anybody from the club does not care.

Additionally, there would not be one person who revelled in people losing their jobs. We do not know whether or not their jobs are on line.

MESSAGES->author
Albert Fishwick
04 June, 2019 19:08
None of us knows exactly what has gone on, still less why. It may all become clear, or it may not. We are certainly entitled to feel disappointed and let down but it's not our jobs at stake or our millions going down the pan.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

Yorki
Yorki
04 June, 2019 19:53
well Hornchurch I hope I am wrong

MESSAGES->author
Gelbel
05 June, 2019 09:48
Quote:
Yorki
in light of the pending collapse of YC it lacks tacked in the circumstances to advertise what a great time you are having when players are struggling for their jobs.

Something on similar lines to this - on Bambi's birthday the club tweeted the fact, adding we hope you're having a great day. Just a day or two after he'd been told he had no job.(Sm164)

Tyko
Tyko
05 June, 2019 17:49
From the Offy. Can't see that anyone has posted this so far.


Update from Chief Executive Gary Hetherington

03/06/2019

Yorkshire Carnegie Chief Executive Gary Hetherington has issued the following update on the club's current situation.

"The Leeds RUFC Board of Sir Ian McGeechan, Prof Paul Smith, Rob Oates and myself are responsible for the running of Yorkshire Carnegie and for making major decisions on the Clubs’ future and we are now awaiting a decision from the Shareholders of Yorkshire Tykes RUFC, who provide the funds to enable LRUFC to operate, before a further announcement can be made.

"But, it is fair to say the Club is in a critical position having lost its major source of funding and the Board is now working closely with the RFU and YTRUFC Shareholders to manage our current predicament and hopefully plot a way forward.”

JDH1
JDH1
05 June, 2019 18:17
It's was posted earlier

Tyko
Tyko
06 June, 2019 11:37
Ooops!! Missed it. eye rolling smiley


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