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leeds_shark
Board Update
WPL (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 09:33
I guess this means the wheels in motion...

Link

Not sure how long the process is likely to take or is it a case of how long is a piece of string...

Is it to be read there is a bit of money, but not the whole amount we needed and not much else has changed. I suspect the bit about presenting to the RFU was when Melville was in town

 
Johnflinn
Re: Board Update
NOM (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 09:55
The money will be to pay the administrators fees and associated costs along with a Ďpotí that will be offered to creditors. Usually this is a fraction of what is owed and is a Ďtake it or risk getting nothing if CVA is not agreedí.

How the RFU view it is another matter. A CVA is a clear declaration of financial failure so would normally come with a penalty (points deduction from last season - forcing relegation - or starting next on minus points or relegation down one or more leagues).

The next step will depend on whether creditors accept the terms and then how the RFU see it.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
Wildwillie (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 10:11
"A new operational, break even plan for the 2019-20 season has been presented to the RFU with the Yorkshire Carnegie club continuing to stage matches at Emerald Headingley Stadium and the team operating from the Leeds Rugby facilities at Kirkstall."

No mention of a coach or what the team might consist of. If you don't have any staff then it should be quite easy to break even.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
opuscoitus (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 10:18
points deduction forcing relegation while not ideal gives a chance to rebuild in a lower league and not fall right down the league pyramid,

from my point of view swap us with Richmond gives us a year or 2 in N1 to strengthen miles better than no relegation in champ and us getting humped every week,

ultimately it is what it is and we have to take the medicine, we clearly dont have the organisation skills for Prem at this current time so forget we are a prem club nonsense and rebuild from a decent level and for gods sake to all involved learn from this i beg you

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
almostatyke (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 10:29
I though that only administration brought a points deduction? If the creditors agree to the CVA terms then we carry on, or should that be, struggle on, without further penalty IMHO.

Still at lot to do though.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
Albert Fishwick (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 10:34
Some earlier posts indicated that a CVA may not result in a points deduction if agreement is made with creditors but I am no expert.

I don't know how we would survive relegation to level three. Without the £550k from the RFU how would we pay the £100k for Headingley, never mind the rest of the running costs?



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
Wildwillie (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 10:44
Quote:
Albert Fishwick
I don't know how we would survive relegation to level three. Without the £550k from the RFU how would we pay the £100k for Headingley, never mind the rest of the running costs?

We are stuffed.

 
leeds_shark
Re: Board Update
WPL (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 10:44
Quote:
Albert Fishwick

I don't know how we would survive relegation to level three. Without the £550k from the RFU how would we pay the £100k for Headingley, never mind the rest of the running costs?

My thoughts exactly

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
SideStep (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 10:45
The hangman is slowly getting ready...



The first Leeds Tykes child mascot...#leedswasps0203season. #cheersbentos

 
Feeding
Re: Board Update
Feeding (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 12:18
As the statement says they propose 'to operate' in the Championship,one can only assume that a CVC(if accepted) does not trigger a points deduction,whilst Administation would result in a deduction?

 
Wharfedale1985
Re: Board Update
Wharfedale1985 (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 13:03
I don't know how we would survive relegation to level three. Without the £550k from the RFU how would we pay the £100k for Headingley, never mind the rest of the running costs?[/quote]

Given how reliant the club seem to be on the £550k from the RFU paying £100k to rent a stadium is diabolical. Then again with Hetherington in charge of matters I imagine the decision is concrete.

 
JDH1
Re: Board Update
JDH1 (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 13:40
At least it mentions next season. I take that as a positive.

 
Billy ba
Re: Board Update
Billy ba (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 14:13
I reckon £100k to rent a stadium like Headingley and all the training facilities at Kirkstall plus all the extras on match day is a good deal

 
Wharfedale1985
Re: Board Update
Wharfedale1985 (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 15:36
Quote:
Billy ba
I reckon £100k to rent a stadium like Headingley and all the training facilities at Kirkstall plus all the extras on match day is a good deal

A good deal if you can afford it, as I say given how reliant they seem on the £550k that is ridiculous sum to spend.

 
Tower
Re: Board Update
Tower (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 15:47
Quote:
Wharfedale1985
Quote:
Billy ba
I reckon £100k to rent a stadium like Headingley and all the training facilities at Kirkstall plus all the extras on match day is a good deal

A good deal if you can afford it, as I say given how reliant they seem on the £550k that is ridiculous sum to spend.

I totally agree with you Billy ba this is a great deal. I want to support my club at a great venue.


Wharfedale1985 if we carry on where do propose we play?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
Albert Fishwick (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 15:48
Maybe so but it's not as if we have a spare ground we could use instead. It's a lot less than it used to be.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
almostatyke (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 16:14
Gary Hetherington said at the fans' meeting that if anyone knows a cheaper alternative to the £100k Headingley offer, please let him know.
The £100k includes the training facilities, offices and certain backroom functions. I know other clubs operate on a volunteer basis for many functions (e.g ticket sales on match day) but if we do survive, there is little time to set that up for next season.


The high level facilities might just be enough to tempt loanees and players to join us at short notice, too.


Only if we survive our financial problems of course.

 
bspa2
Re: Board Update
bspa2 (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 16:14
I suspect that there are more players than we realise who will be glad to play good rugby and develop their careers at the same time. I would be surprised if there haven't been a lot of conversations already.

At least the CVA offers continuity.

 
knightandday
Re: Board Update
knightandday (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 16:23
100k is a bargain price to pay to run a club at this level. Castle park probably costs twice as much. The difference is that any monies taken goes to DRFC where as monies taken at Headingley probably goes to Rhinos.

Good luck for the future (except when you play us)

 
Feeding
Re: Board Update
Feeding (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 16:56
If Wharfedale go bust,clearly they will expect to play and train at Skipton,free of charge.

 
Dr Zaius
Re: Board Update
Dr Zaius (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 20:54
Quote:
Billy ba
I reckon £100k to rent a stadium like Headingley and all the training facilities at Kirkstall plus all the extras on match day is a good deal
It's not a good deal, it's an amazing deal. The cost of the club directly paying stewards, ticket office staff and shop staff alone would gobble up most of it, never mind getting the best stadium in the league to play at plus training facilities and executive time.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
leemingtyke (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 21:35
100k is an amazing deal to play in that magnificent stadium, I believe its only gone down to that amount recently and in light of our current plight though?

Didn't it used to be 400k?

 
JDH1
Re: Board Update
JDH1 (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 22:15
Yes and yes. GH confirmed this at the meeting. It is a brilliant deal and as said players will want to train and play at HC.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
almostatyke (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 08:39
Quote:
leemingtyke
100k is an amazing deal to play in that magnificent stadium, I believe its only gone down to that amount recently and in light of our current plight though?
Didn't it used to be 400k?


I think that represents something like the full cost, but I believe it has always been discounted. Last season we paid £150k.

 
Wharfedale1985
Re: Board Update
Wharfedale1985 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:15
Im not denying it's a brilliant deal but if as I have already said we are massively reliant on this £550k from the RFU taking £100k to pay for Headingley is in my opinion financially daft.

As for what is the alternative? There is always an alternative where there is a will there is a way and all that. For example WPL have great facilities with multiple pitches, could something not be worked out with them?

The current board has led us to this position so any further decisions by them do not fill me with much hope and keeping the club anchored to Headingley paying £100k as a part time entity with next to no money leaves me in wonder.

Hopefully a cat is pulled out of the bag.

 
Tyko
Re: Board Update
Tyko (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:37
I understand there is a restriction on professional rugby being played at West Park.

 
Feeding
Re: Board Update
Feeding (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 09:56
Professional or indeed semi professional sport is not permitted at Bramhope,end of.

Incidentally,even if they could,why would WPL want to allow YC to use their facilities? No doubt Wharfedale believes they should be able to use them free of charge!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2019 10:23 by Feeding.

 
Wharfedale1985
Re: Board Update
Wharfedale1985 (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 11:10
Free of charge?Not at all...

Interesting that no semi pro or pro sport can be played there, was it in the terms of any funding given to them?

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
Albert Fishwick (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 12:56
Yes. It is set up as a Community Amateur Sports Club (CASC). As I understand it, investing the proceeds of sale of Chandos Park into such an entity gave some relief from the tax which would otherwise have been payable.

In any case, as Mr Feeding says, why would West Park want to shoehorn another club into what is already a busy facility?



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

 
Tower
Re: Board Update
Tower (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 15:58
Quote:
leemingtyke
100k is an amazing deal to play in that magnificent stadium, I believe its only gone down to that amount recently and in light of our current plight though?
Didn't it used to be 400k?

The figure of 400k was totally misquoted in the press. Did we ever pay such amount? If so when?

As that 400k was disputed at the meeting.

Not sure I want to go to WPL. Don't forget that sum includes the physio team as well. You are never going to find better value or a better deal.

Please do some leg work and share proper information rather than woolly statements and let us all know if you have an alternative.

 
Feeding
Re: Board Update
Feeding (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 16:13
What a wise and intelligent man you are Mr Fishwick.CASC gives amateur sports clubs savings on their VAT payments.

If all else fails,I'll buy you a beer at our (Leos) first ever game in Yorks 1 on 7 Sept when we entertain Bridlington.Your George Watkins was our backs coach last season and helped us secure promotion.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
Albert Fishwick (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 16:39
Quote:
Tower
Quote:
leemingtyke
100k is an amazing deal to play in that magnificent stadium, I believe its only gone down to that amount recently and in light of our current plight though?
Didn't it used to be 400k?



The figure of 400k was totally misquoted in the press. Did we ever pay such amount? If so when?

As that 400k was disputed at the meeting.

Not sure I want to go to WPL. Don't forget that sum includes the physio team as well. You are never going to find better value or a better deal.

Please do some leg work and share proper information rather than woolly statements and let us all know if you have an alternative.

From the published accounts for the year ended 30 June 2013:

"Leeds Cricket, Football and Athletic Company Limited ... provide stadium facilities to the company. The transactions in the period amounted to £413,463 (2012 £435,000)."

While ever the Carnegie million was being paid and we were part of the Caddick group I guess it was easier to set a figure at this level. Since Yorkshire Tykes Limited took over the picture is much less clear as small company exemptions don't require full accounts to be filed with Companies House but there has obviously been a substantial reduction.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
almostatyke (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 17:10
Quote:
almostatyke
Quote:
leemingtyke
100k is an amazing deal to play in that magnificent stadium, I believe its only gone down to that amount recently and in light of our current plight though?
Didn't it used to be 400k?


I think that represents something like the full cost, but I believe it has always been discounted. Last season we paid £150k.


Dave Dockray quoted these numbers at the fans' meeting IIRC.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
leemingtyke (IP Logged)
13 June, 2019 17:19
Quote:
Tower
Quote:
leemingtyke
100k is an amazing deal to play in that magnificent stadium, I believe its only gone down to that amount recently and in light of our current plight though?
Didn't it used to be 400k?

The figure of 400k was totally misquoted in the press. Did we ever pay such amount? If so when?

As that 400k was disputed at the meeting.

Not sure I want to go to WPL. Don't forget that sum includes the physio team as well. You are never going to find better value or a better deal.

Please do some leg work and share proper information rather than woolly statements and let us all know if you have an alternative.

Think you might need to read my post again Tower.

I'm in favour of staying at Headingley.

The 400k was something I had read and if you bother to read the post properly you'll notice the use of question marks meaning that I was asking if anyone knew if that information was correct. The only statement I made is that 100k is an amazing deal.

 
Wharfedale1985
Re: Board Update
Wharfedale1985 (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 11:30
The only time the place is busy is on a Sunday, the mens section struggle to get two teams out these days.

Im speaking hypothetically by the way using WPL as an example.

 
Grybz
Re: Board Update
Grybz (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 07:17
Just wondering if anyone has any idea who the creditors are that are owed money? Iím assuming some of them are the remaining contracted players, but given the recent news on players who have now moved on I canít believe there are many left. My understanding from previous statements was that although there was no new money coming in the club didnít have debts to speak of.

On a side issue am I alone in questioning how much the firm that were supposed to be looking for new investment must have cost to employ? Presumably they werenít offering their services for free, but given their apparent lack of success I hope there was some sort of ďno win no feeĒ agreement, but I suspect not.

 
Feeding
Re: Board Update
Feeding (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 07:25
I thought the total debt by the end of last season was around £4.5 mill ? I could be wrong.

I assume this is mainly owed to one or two directors/shareholders? If that is essentially written off,then we start with no debt,albeit equally,with few assetts and little income.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
Albert Fishwick (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 10:55
The last available accounts at 30 June 2017 showed creditors of £283,000, including £93,000 owed for payroll taxes and VAT. Any settlement which doesn't pay the taxman in full is unlikely to fly.

The balance sheet was in deficit by £54,000. This was only achieved by treating £2.73 million of shareholder loans as equity, on the basis that the loan providers had undertaken not to request repayment. Sufficient comfort was apparently provided to convince the auditors that this treatment was appropriate.

From what we have heard you can only assume that the position has worsened substantially since then.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

 
Tassigny74
Re: Board Update
Tassigny74 (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 15:17
If the current club was bankrupt would it automatically mean that any new entity ( such as a fans owned club )
Would have to start at the very bottom of the league structure. Even if it was up and running almost immediately?

 
Grybz
Re: Board Update
Grybz (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 15:29
Thanks for the number crunching Albert.

From what I could gather if a club goes into administration it has to drop to the bottom of the league structure, the example given was Richmond who had to drop ten divisions. London Welsh seemed to be different as they had a split between the professional club and the amateur club. If a CVA is agreed the club could still be docked points at the start of the next season, although there may be a mechanism for applying it to last seasons table which could mean Richmond staying up and us dropping down. I think the options were mentioned on the will greenwood podcast a week or so ago, so canít be 100% sure as I was listening to it on the train!

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
Albert Fishwick (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 15:48
It all seems rather murky. In a liquidation the company ceases to exist and then I think you do have to start again at the bottom. Administration is different, or can be; Plymouth received a big points deduction, from memory, but didn't have to go down the long snake.



If I had all the money I've spent on drink ..... I'd spend it on drink.

 
tightprop
Re: Board Update
tightprop (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 20:17
Plymouth were relegated to National League One at the end of 2014-2015 season after coming bottom of the Championship table. Funds were also short that season and they only avoided administration by an injection of cash from investors.

According to a BBC report, Plymouth RFC were deducted 30 points as a result of running out of funds and going into administration in April 2016. Administration meant that Plymouth finished the 2015-2016 season in 7th place in National League One with 72 points which was enough to prevent them going down into the division below. They have stayed in National League One ever since.

Two former Plymouth players took over the assets of the club after Administration. BBC report of 2016 here:

[www.bbc.co.uk]

Hopefully Yorkshire Carnegie will survive. In what form we shall have to wait ans see.

 
MESSAGES->author
Re: Board Update
almostatyke (IP Logged)
15 June, 2019 20:37
Thanx tp.


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