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Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Discussion started by Yorkie , 26 February, 2012 12:01
Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Yorkie 26 February, 2012 12:01
Can't see where anyone has commented upon Billy's performance?

He had a bit of a mare imvho. Didn't pass when he needed to and some of his passes were so far ahead of his team mates that they'd have needed to be Uzain Bolt to get to them. And it's a good job he scored as he should have passed then too really to make sure we scored.

Can't question his committment and he did make 1 break through a tackle but that's the limit of his positives.

Messaih? Pah!!



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Jon T 26 February, 2012 12:05
Very harsh in my opinion, Billy had a good solid game, made no more bad passes than anyone else, made 3 or 4 good breaks and got in some very good positions in my view, thought he and Smith make a good second choice centre pairing. All IMHO.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/02/2012 12:08 by Jon T.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
tbtb 26 February, 2012 12:06
Same as ever.

Physically quite good, which enables some bullet like passes. Unfortunately they are fired all over the place.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Rich W 26 February, 2012 12:06
Harsh. I thought he wasn't bad - albeit with the odd error and against ordinary opposition.



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Tiggs 26 February, 2012 12:12
I thought he was quite good, considering his lack of recent game time.
I would recommend that you read Cockers thoughts on the game and Billy's performance, whom Cockers singled out for praise !



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
JK 26 February, 2012 12:13
I think I did comment in the match report. Pretty much same as Rich W above TBH.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Tiggs 26 February, 2012 12:13

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 12:15
Well I thought he had a reasonable game. Certainly one pass missed whoever was on the left wing, Agulla maybe, but on the whole he was a sight better than the opposition, which I suppose sheds light on his performance.However he was very well served by young Ford as well.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 12:17
Note: my comments were written before I saw any of the above replies.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Yorkie 26 February, 2012 12:20
Sorry. Stand by my OP. I'm allowed my view as others are theirs and everyone's is valid including Cockers!!

Here he was playing in his "preferred" position with a 10 inside him having a stonking game and giving him flat quick ball against weaker opposition. Should have been a star and shone in such circumstances. He didn't! Simples.



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 12:23
Yorkie, are you a merekat living in a Russian pogrom?

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Rich W 26 February, 2012 12:26
You're quite right Yorkie - you are.



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Yorkie 26 February, 2012 12:29
Quote:
Dalmatian
Yorkie, are you a merekat living in a Russian pogrom?

What's a "pogrom"?



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 12:51
A pogrom is an area designated for particular types such as religious or racial groups, but in your case a displaced meerkat diaspora. All very tongue in cheek of course!

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Yorkie 26 February, 2012 12:53
Thanks for the education. (Sm3)



Oh. And the answer to your query is, "No".



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
ka ora ka mate 26 February, 2012 12:55
Pogrom: an organised persecution or massacre ... I think he means Yorkshire (Sm100)

My concern was for George Ford, but he proved his worth according to the radio and subsequent comments and didn't need the steadying hand on his shoulder that I feared would not be there from 36. The radio, Melton and Cockers were fairly complimentary of 36, and since I haven't seen the game I cannot comment further.

However, I will!

Not really. I'll get my coat



'Profit Motive' .. the Vaseline of genocides.

'Reality' .. the new cynicism



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/02/2012 13:06 by ka ora ka mate.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
ka ora ka mate 26 February, 2012 13:09
Posted by: Dalmatian (IP Logged)
Date: 26 February, 2012 12:51

A pogrom is an area designated for particular types such as religious or racial groups, but in your case a displaced meerkat diaspora. All very tongue in cheek of course!

... not according to the Oxford English Dictionary, and word is from the Russian for destruction [unless it's religious or racial groups in the perceived @#$%& or Stalinist styles]

... pedantry notwithstanding

[Why would the site censure the abbreviation for National Socialist .. did it not happen, that period of German history?]



'Profit Motive' .. the Vaseline of genocides.

'Reality' .. the new cynicism



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/02/2012 13:11 by ka ora ka mate.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 13:14
My brief definition excluded motives for a pogrom to allow the retention of humour in my post. I am well versed in most things Slav because I am one.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 13:17
...........and don't get me on the Germans, I'm one of those as well!!

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
ka ora ka mate 26 February, 2012 13:22
I know you're Slav, and I was wary of putting my toe in this particular water, but I wanted to know more, and now I do .. thankyou



'Profit Motive' .. the Vaseline of genocides.

'Reality' .. the new cynicism

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 13:31
Kein problem mein freund, i nazdralije!

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Rich W 26 February, 2012 13:33
Foreigner!



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Yorkie 26 February, 2012 13:36
And what's all this got to do with Elephants?



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 14:08
I'll explain after we've enjoyed our goose!

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dalmatian 26 February, 2012 15:07
Nothing, but the goose was magnificent!

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Duncan Keene 27 February, 2012 07:52
Strongly disagree with yorkie's opinion, I thought twelvetrees had a solid game. Yes he found a bit of contact, but he committed defenders and that's an important part of playing centre. Great to see him celebrating with Ford after the latter's cross field kick set up for Morris's try. Thought it shone a bit of light on some of the unfounded sneers that he isn't a team player.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
jojo 27 February, 2012 08:16
Kept his ty scoring as better than one in three which is much better than the other 12 Yorkie!!!!!!!!!!!(Sm102)

Just to put things in balance of course

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Rich W 27 February, 2012 10:03
Why is it that some posters have to respond to a critical comment on one player's performance by denigrating another?



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
jamesroberts 27 February, 2012 11:32
Because some on here seem not to acknowledge the weak points of our other 12 .

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Rich W 27 February, 2012 11:43
What have the relative opinions of one player got to do with the analysis of the performace of another?

It's like the Quins fans in my Mike Brown thread whose sole response to my raising the issue of his error retaliate with their opinons on Youngs and Flood without even considering the original point.

It's childish - my dad's bigger than your dad stuff.



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
jojo 27 February, 2012 12:03
Comparisons made, both play in the same position. For me the issue was closed but these snide comments re Billy 12T really go too far. He's gone. He had a decent game. He scored. would I prefer him to still be at Tigers - Yes. It's finished so why keep raking over the coals with a thread like this.

We have another 12 at Tigers who shows potential and I will support him now Forsyth. Believe that when fit will be a good Tiger and needs to be given opportunities. The best thing about him is that he isn't a 10 and won't be messed around positionally.(Sm19)(Sm31)angry smileyyawning smiley

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Rich W 27 February, 2012 12:31
With all that I, for one, agree entirely!



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Yorkie 27 February, 2012 12:33
As I said in my OP. It was imvho! Please disagree with me (as some have) as you're entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I accept your opinion is valid on the basis you accept mine is too. Everyone will never see subjective issues the same way.

No where (I don't believe) have I accused Billy of not being a team player and I highlighted his committment as a positive in the OP. At least 3 times he threw out a pass which was way beyond the reach of the intended receipient. Loads of times he didn't pass when that was perhaps the better option. As I said in the OP, it was a good job he scored his try!

Here was an opportunity that some have said he's never had. Playing with 12 on his back against weaker opposition and a form 10 playing inside him giving him good quick ball. I was expecting more tbh if the claims of others are valid?

How other options Tigers have for the 12 position would have played on saturday is unknown and irrelevant to this thread.



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
melton tiger 27 February, 2012 12:45
I was on the fence about 36, his Weston-Super-Mare in Belfast to the forefront. But, with the sharp service he got in his favoured position I thought he did well on Saturday, albeit v weak opposition. He is a loss and Bowden has to impress otherwise we have a real net loss situation because Ford's progression means that 12 is where we need the strengthening.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
irishaxeman 27 February, 2012 13:50
You ever played in the backs Yorkie? 12T threw a couple of flat passes which were potential line breakers. You throw those - if you are good enough to do so - when your line is flattening and accelerating to hit the point you throw them to - as do all passes at speed. It is the responsibility of the accelerating players to hit the gainline as well as your responsibility to not throw the pass behind them. IMO from very close to one of those 'poor passes' was that if Agulla or Matt had been a foot faster or nearer, we would've been celebrating a try. They weren't bad passes they were one half of a standard ploy that didn't come off - because of Matt and Agulla mainly.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
jojo 27 February, 2012 13:57
I agree Irish. IMO Billy probably has the strongest, longest and fastest passes at Tigers. That it isn't/wasn't used to its full potential is not his fault.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Rich W 27 February, 2012 14:28
It's interesting that.

I tend to agree that it is often not the passer's fault that passes go in front of the receiver. Things happen at such pace - much faster than anything most of us ever played at that there isn't time to adjust the pass. And, given the level of training that professional players undertake to create systems and drills that allow you to play at that pace, there is usually an expectation on behalf of any passer - particularly those in playmaking positions - that receivers will be running onto passes. The passer just can't adjust his pass to any great tolerance at that pace and often under pressure. Runners should just, automatically really, run the appropriate lines and pace/depth off each phase. Of course errors happen - and sometimes you just run out of numbers so there isn't someone where they are expected to be - but usually this is because the receiver has been unabe to get into position rather than the passer throwing a wild pass. Not that wild passes don't happen mind. That said you can't absolve the passer on every occasion.

To me it's a bit like running on the shoulder in support of the line break - there should be an almost instinctual understanding that this is about to happen. Partially it comes down to awareness and reading of what team-mates are going to do and part of it comes down to simple discipline and organisation. Too often players make unsupported breaks - now it's important not to simply hare away from the support but it's equally (if not more important) for support runners to make themselves available. This seems to be something that just isn't worked on in the English game so we don't build up that automatic understanding.

The idiot Guscott was talking about it yesterday. His idea was that it was instinctive and wasn't about coaching.

I also agree that Billy has an extremely strong pass - it's his greatest strength imo - though I'm not quite sure that it hasn't been used. If it hadn't been used how would we know about it?



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Tom Paine 27 February, 2012 16:51
I'm a bit worried about Yorkie. Yorshiremen who don't have opinions are either dead, or dead drunk. But I've never met one who voiced his opinions humbly (or quietly for that matter) and "very humbly" is just plain ridiculous.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Yorkie 27 February, 2012 17:38
(Sm6) (Sm6) (Sm6) (Sm6)


Yorkshireman I certainly am and opinionated goes without saying really, but politeness and patience cost nothing.



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Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
jamesroberts 27 February, 2012 18:16
What a bizarre view of 12trees performance .I could understand it if he had made lots of mistakes , missed tackles and messed up lots of try scoring opportunities but here we had a game where for once our 10 and 12 worked well together and we had a backs display that was both efficient and enjoyable .Long fast passes are a strong point of Billy's game and someone like Geordan seems to know how to time his arrival to make them work.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Dr.Venter 27 February, 2012 18:29
Wondered how long it would be before 36's agent came on!

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
ChrisC 27 February, 2012 19:42
(Sm22)(Sm152)

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Stopsy 28 February, 2012 08:22
I watched the game last night and do not recognise the negative description of Billy's game from that. Having said that I am dull witted and have not played as a Back.

Re: Well I'll comment on the Elephant in the team.
Tigergeezer 28 February, 2012 09:28
Quote:
Yorkie
(Sm6) (Sm6) (Sm6) (Sm6)

Yorkshireman I certainly am and opinionated goes without saying really, but politeness and patience cost nothing.



Just as well. Can't imagine a Yorkshireman paying for them, after all. (Sm151)


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