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Harvester of Eyes
Purebob (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 03:58
All the hoo-ha regarding citings lately is certainly wearing a bit thin.

However reading on the LI board for a second some posters there claim to have CERTAINLY seen YBY punch Gibson in the face several times. I have watched that incident on telly live, then again on highlights and YBY hits the ground near his face VERY clearly. LI fans actually saw different facts than I did.

And LI fans wholly dismiss the provocation of YBY, yet the reaction of their SH who ran over to give YBY a seeing to is so obviously righteous and benign it doesn't need even commenting upon.

This is NOT a rant about the fine LI fans, just that we fans seem to be GENUINELY one-eyed when we view such things. There are still Saints fans who still give Clarke the benefit of the doubt, for example, even claiming some provocation because Hawkins has a West county accent or something....

I have learned a lesson from this YBY issue that each of us really can't help seeing events coloured by our fan proclivities. Folks may not be trolling if they see something obviously at odds with what we have seen, they might just have had an eye harvested by their fan bias, just as I have.

I shall allow my neck to get less red in future when discussing such and remember I am a cyclops too !



Defense, defense, defense, defense. Yeah, yeah, yeah !

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Duncan Keene (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 06:42
Well said bob and very true.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Stopsy (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 06:49
Indeed, In the Sarries game at WR I am convinced I saw one of their players stamp on the prone back of one of ours. I have rewatched the incident a few times and although the camera is 180 degrees different angle to my seat, I can see no evidence of this.

We are bound to be partial by the nature of our support for one team.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Johns (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 06:56
Are the ultimate defence "claiming some provocation because Hawkins has a West county accent"

Hawkins could be in line for a very long ban then.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Rich W (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 08:19
Blue Oyster Cult - there's something I haven't heard in a while...



...
Nothing I cared, in the lamb white days, that time would take me
Up to the swallow thronged loft by the shadow of my hand,
In the moon that is always rising,
Nor that riding to sleep
I should hear him fly with the high fields
And wake to the farm forever fled from the childless land.
Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
Time held me green and dying
Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
jojo (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 08:25
Even Boothe and Smith are one eyed. In their post match thoughts say Gibson pinned to the ground by Ben and Gibson defenceless so shouldn't have a knee drop.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Tigergeezer (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 08:52
We're always Johnny Nash for incidents against our own, and Talking Heads about stuff they do themselves...



_____________________________________________

See that girl
Watch her scream
Kicking the dancing queen

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Purebob (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 09:06
Quote:
Blue Oyster Cult - there's something I haven't heard in a while...

Rich if that was without a Google BRAVO !

Cult's best stuff was brilliant !



Defense, defense, defense, defense. Yeah, yeah, yeah !

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
JK (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 09:07
Be careful how you spell that!

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Purebob (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 09:13
Correct JK, I mean even broadsheets manage to spell a word wrong three times on one page. Where are the standards in journalism eh ?

http://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/543308906.jpg?key=640847&Expires=1332408580&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIYVGSUJFNRFZBBTA&Signature=zxLnqhR~54KCWfUv3fUI-tJ6yEk3nxTm1hG7suryK85uXg7AIsGJX49lf96ZAYEDpgGhAWf9UXvo1zpiemL3VkwhI01jD5dUNPO16QfgpUrzWL34MCwAKteBnUP2Zdb0BgoEvrsn5f8XSYsMI2WM13HsoLB7lvfE06lgVxyX1jk_



Defense, defense, defense, defense. Yeah, yeah, yeah !

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Saint Dom (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 10:50
It's hard to be objective when the whole point of supporting one team against another is to be partial.

Cockerill was spitting nails after the LV game, when he called for Clark to be cited. But after the LI incident, he complained that the media would call for Youngs to be cited. He needs to learn that he can't ride with the hunt and run with the hounds...

Clark has said he had no intent to injure. His view is probably that - when an opposition hooker flops over the ball at the breakdown - it is the flanker's first duty to haul away at his limbs until the ball is released. Neil Back was very effective at doing that, too.The panel hearing Clark's case will have to decide what degree of intent there was in the range between yanking his arm off the ball to breaking it.

When the panel look at Youngs' case, they might well regard it as inconsequential because Gibson hasn't suffered a head injury or broken ribs...

It's a fine line, isn't it?



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/99/99_0_1202835632.jpg
*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Purebob (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 10:55
Hi St Dom

Your post kind of supports my point I think. You equate Clark's "incident" with YBYs, and to me that like comparing a stink bomb with a shotgun.

But hey...

Incidentally do you have a link to Clark's comments please ?



Defense, defense, defense, defense. Yeah, yeah, yeah !

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
SK 88 (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 11:31
Well Gibson didn't suffer any injuries because Youngs didn't try to use enough force to cause any injuries.

He only started because Gibson was holding on to him, he also stopped as soon as Gibson released him, and attempted to play on.

Clark started after the whistle, so nothing more to be gained, and didn't stop until Hawkins was screaming in pain. All after the whistle.

It isn't a fine line at all.

The fact Clark is first player to ever be cited by Tigers surely says all you need to know about the severity of his actions.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Rich W (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 11:39
I'm not sure that Cockers did call for Clark to be cited - the only comment I recall was to the effect that he was disappointed and that he would wait for the RFU to determine what action was appropriate.

Similarly it seems implicit in what he seems to have said of Ben that we should wait for the official decision rather tahn leave it to the media.

Seems remarkably consistent to me.



...
Nothing I cared, in the lamb white days, that time would take me
Up to the swallow thronged loft by the shadow of my hand,
In the moon that is always rising,
Nor that riding to sleep
I should hear him fly with the high fields
And wake to the farm forever fled from the childless land.
Oh as I was young and easy in the mercy of his means,
Time held me green and dying
Though I sang in my chains like the sea.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
JK (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 15:05
"Clark has said he had no intent to injure. His view is probably that - when an opposition hooker flops over the ball at the breakdown - it is the flanker's first duty to haul away at his limbs until the ball is released. Neil Back was very effective at doing that, too.The panel hearing Clark's case will have to decide what degree of intent there was in the range between yanking his arm off the ball to breaking it."

Absolute rubbish. The whistle had clearly gone about two yards away and he bent that arm so far back that it was highly unlikely that no injury would result.

As far as I am aware, there is no record of Neil Back causing deliberate injury to anyone.

The panel hearing Clark's case ought to reflect on the fact that the whistle had gone and there was no need whatsoever to "manipulate" Hawkins' arm.

I don't know why you guys continue to try to (partially) defend Clark. He needs to accept what's undoubtedly coming his way just as Manu did and Youngs does now.

Our boy was held back but shouldn't have retaliated, especially not with a knee if that's what he did. In Cockers' words, it is "not ideal" but we will suck it up.

Your fans, including Saint Morrissey and yourself, would garner a lot more respect if you would do the same.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Stopsy (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 15:41
I think a few would disagree with you on Backy, one Joe Worsley for starters although I think I understand that you meant a deliberate attempt to injure.

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Saint Dom (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 15:58
You will have to take my word for it when I say that I am trying fully to endorse Purebob's shrewd comment about partiality.

As for Clark, what is the point of agreeing or disagreeing with me? You only draw attention to your own one-eyed-ness.

Ask yourself: if you were completely neutral, could you say there would be any furore over Clark's actions if he had not injured Hawkins so severely? Was it deliberate? Was it accidental? Did he hear the whistle?

Then ask yourself: Did Youngs deliberately try to knee Gibson in the chest and punch his lights out? What would be your reaction if he had severely injured him?

There is a spectrum of intent and outcome, from trying to clear a ruck in the 'heat of battle'* and - at the other extreme - trying to maim somebody. I don't pretend to know the answer, but for goodness' sake, we'll have plenty to argue about after 14 April, so let's park this for now.

*
Quote:
Cockerill quote - [www.planetrugby.com
]
Leicester scrum-half Ben Youngs, who left the field with a minor shin injury in the second half, could be cited after he appeared to knee an opponent deliberately while he was on the ground.


Exiles coach Toby Booth said the England number nine's actions were "unnecessary" but Cockerill believes Young's actions were not intentional.


"It was in the heat of the battle," he said...



http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/99/99_0_1202835632.jpg
*I could agree with you - but then we'd both be wrong...*

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
Tiggs (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 16:04
Any attempts to defend CC's actions, or trying to compare them to others, do nothing to earn respect from any one, by making any such ridiculous attempts IMO.



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/tighthead.gif http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/TigersFire2.gif

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
ra (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 16:29
Quote:
Saint Dom
He needs to learn that he can't ride with the hunt and run with the hounds...
Actually I think you'll find that that's exactly what you can do. What you're supposed to do in fact!
I think you mean he can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.



http://home.zonnet.nl/fred.kitty/calvin/A_hob.gif

 
Re: Harvester of Eyes
SK 88 (IP Logged)
26 March, 2012 16:30
You make yourself look ridiculous by trying to make out any injury would have occured from Youngs action. A couple slaps to the face will never hurt anybody. This knee thing is being blown completely out of proportion by the whining of the London Irish coaches.

Ask your self this Saint Dom, if Clark didn't intend any harm why did he only stop once Hawkins (a professional rugby player so not exactly a stranger to pain) was literally shrieking in agony? The arm was long out of the pile, so he wasn't just trying to free the ball for a quick tap (as if that was what he was doing anyway), what was he actually trying to achieve if it wasn't pain? Clark is unfortunate the Rugby's unfair disciplinery system will take into account the damage he has done rather than damage he intended (which I am 100% wasn't to end his season or career) but once you intend to damage an opponent you open yourself up to allsorts.

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