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Morbid O/T
IDLETIMES (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 14:43
Suicide is the main cause of death in men under 45. Why is this, at a time of life when everything should be 'go'. Can't people talk about things or is it that there is no one listening?

 
Re: Morbid O/T
irishaxeman (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 15:29
There's a few people listening, just not very many. Frankly nobody in this country gives a f*** about others much anymore.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Trev's Big Tackle (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 15:34
"Toxic Masculinity" or whatever you want to call it is a big problem. Being told to "Man up" from a young age doesn't lead to men wanting to talk about their problems.

There's also been big funding cuts in mental health services so even those who want to talk might have difficulty finding the help they need.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
18 April, 2017 17:36
We're back to the General Election again .. our society is broken



This pantomime; just put it .. behind you!

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Yorkie (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 17:43
Why don't we all just move away from this broken land? Europe or some such? Or even Scotland and then we can really get away from it all!!!

Folk want everything now and believe they deserve it regardless if it has been earned. No-one wants to have to deal with the consequences of their actions or be responsible for anything.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

 
Re: Morbid O/T
IDLETIMES (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 18:25
I think it's a similar problem in all parts of the world. I care because I remember before I married at 36, from say 1969 when I finished my apprenticeship, I was here, there and everywhere doing anything and everything and I find it a damned shame that so many people are not getting or finding the chances and or just giving up, very sad.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Saints_Dazza (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 18:29
Thought provoking discussion. Not sure of statistics, but here's my two'peneth based on personal experience. Society is dislocated, family used to be a source of strength but there is a tendancy for it now to be scattered. More people seeking to live an idealised life and acquire ceaselessly in a society that cherishes extravagant shows of wealth and happiness above all else. Lose of close knit stable family, social, work networks supplanted by vapid social networks. There is still a lot of good and good people out there but the above is my experience of what the o.p says.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Tiggs (IP Logged)
18 April, 2017 19:06
Join your local Rugby Club, and find friends, and an immediate support network for almost anything you might need, both tangible, and mental support.
Rugby Clubs are about so much more than just Rugby !



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/tighthead.gif http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/TigersFire2.gif

 
Re: Morbid O/T
18 April, 2017 20:05
Life is tough. Depression is not new. Just like racism, child abuse etc. it's something we can talk about now and solve.

Having had my 'issues' I admire those with 'holier than than thou' attitudes that think it's an excuse, a soft option etc.

I hope they never suffer.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
irishaxeman (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 09:28
Quote:
Saints_Dazza
Thought provoking discussion. Not sure of statistics, but here's my two'peneth based on personal experience. Society is dislocated, family used to be a source of strength but there is a tendancy for it now to be scattered. More people seeking to live an idealised life and acquire ceaselessly in a society that cherishes extravagant shows of wealth and happiness above all else. Lose of close knit stable family, social, work networks supplanted by vapid social networks. There is still a lot of good and good people out there but the above is my experience of what the o.p says.
Yep agree there, the progressive death of many communities (won't get political) is an issue. We (with large families both sides) had a spell supporting a depressed stepson, which wasn't easy, but did stop him cycling further into depression (including suicidal thoughts) - not surprisingly the thing that did the most good was getting him to join a karate club - and I have one son who hasn't spoken to me for four years since I tried to get him to seek help for mental problems that were manifest in early childhood. It doesn't help when you have two very successful older siblings.
Round where I live there are so many 20-35 age group barely surviving in the gig economy, and too many friends of the kids have depressive issues, compounded by the ostentatious success thrust at them through the media and their sense of helplessness.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 11:32
I would add in:

1. the poor quality of so many jobs, so much minimum wage stuff with no prospect of progression
2. no chance of getting onto the housing ladder combined with very high rents
3. combining to reduce the possibility of ever being independent of parents

Easy to meld these into "what's the point?"

 
Re: Morbid O/T
19 April, 2017 12:55
Quote:
Tiger in the Bath
I would add in:
1. the poor quality of so many jobs, so much minimum wage stuff with no prospect of progression
2. no chance of getting onto the housing ladder combined with very high rents
3. combining to reduce the possibility of ever being independent of parents

Easy to meld these into "what's the point?"

... not wishing in any way to trivialise these heinous circumstances, voting for change is a positive option



This pantomime; just put it .. behind you!

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 15:29
Voting for change isn't the same as getting change. I see no prospect of anything other than a strengthened Tory majority, which will do nothing to address any of the three points I added.

It will take years to change the trends in these areas in a way which would make younger people feel more positive about their prospects.

Not optimistic. Also not under 45 but have two sons that are. We had better prospects than them in the late 70s which says so much

 
Re: Morbid O/T
daktari (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 16:31
This current generation (40`s and younger) are the first since before the second world war who have a less prosperous and opportune future. Zero hours contracts, unacheivable mortgages or home ownership,less certainty in employment,less employment rights, less public services,a critically underfunded NHS.
We baby boomers and older have gifted the future generations a more bleak future than our parents gifted us.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Yorkie (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 19:32
Apprenticships and the like are no more as companies cannot afford to fund them and most kids are not willing to work at realistic wage levels like the "rich older" folk did in the 60s and 70s. So the trades are dieing off. God help us trying to get a plumber in 20 years time! Kids want/expect everything now or on credit rather than save up for stuff like generations before them did. Even nowadays, work hard and you will get that roof over your head that you own. Yes, will leave you skint but wasn't that the way back in the day. Anyone else pay 15%+ on their mortgage with most of their wages going to pay it?



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

 
Re: Morbid O/T
daktari (IP Logged)
19 April, 2017 21:16
Its impossible to get a mortgage when your employment status is a zero hours contract , with no guaranteed earnings , no statutory paid leave , no statutory sickness pay and no welfare benefits.
Under 25`s receive 7.50 an hour if they are lucky , or they could be classed as an apprentice shelf stacker on 3.50 an hour. They are now no longer entitled to any form of housing benefit That is today`s world for hundreds of thousands of young people, a mortgage is as attainable as living on Mars.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
20 April, 2017 06:26
Quote:
Tiger in the Bath
Voting for change isn't the same as getting change. I see no prospect of anything other than a strengthened Tory majority, which will do nothing to address any of the three points I added.
It will take years to change the trends in these areas in a way which would make younger people feel more positive about their prospects.

Not optimistic. Also not under 45 but have two sons that are. We had better prospects than them in the late 70s which says so much

I too have children, also grand children and great grand children.

I see the only chance of change to be a Labour government or left wing coalition .. Jeremy Corbyn, for all his detractors, has serious policies to address many of the failings accrued under successive Tory and Blairite [lite-blue] regimes .. I may not expect it but it is worth striving for for the sake of my offspring, and I shall be active and vote accordingly.

This PurgaTory must end.



This pantomime; just put it .. behind you!

 
Re: Morbid O/T
IDLETIMES (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 09:25
I agree with a lot that Yorkie says about not being prepared to save and wait. I was 35 before I could afford to buy a small flat, one of those Studio Solos that were popular in the early 1980s, but why should it lead to such high rates of suicide. I have spoken to some people in this position and in many cases they just want someone to talk to. Can't be too difficult to listen if I can do it, I'm no brain of Briton, the complete opposite, in fact, I failed, miserably, by 1000s of marks, the 11+. I didn't see it as a failure at the time. If I had gone on to Grammer school it would merely have been a chance to upset and annoy a different group of teachers.

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Yorkie (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 10:07
Quote:
daktari
Its impossible to get a mortgage when your employment status is a zero hours contract , with no guaranteed earnings , no statutory paid leave , no statutory sickness pay and no welfare benefits.
Under 25`s receive 7.50 an hour if they are lucky , or they could be classed as an apprentice shelf stacker on 3.50 an hour. They are now no longer entitled to any form of housing benefit That is today`s world for hundreds of thousands of young people, a mortgage is as attainable as living on Mars.

It was always the case that the "low paid" or part time worker struggled to get a mortgage. Which is why there were council houses. Now housing associations. But there are not enough as the government snatched the cash made when said council houses were sold off instead of letting local authorities keep it to build new ones. Perhaps all those folk who bought a cheap council house should have to sell it on at the same % below market rate that they bought it at. Cheaper houses for the less well off?



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

 
Re: Morbid O/T
Tiger in the Bath (IP Logged)
20 April, 2017 12:55
I think that those of us that see the solution to some of these problems as a centrist or left wing government are going to have a very long wait. Its pretty clear that both in England (not Scotland or Wales) and most of the Western World the movement has been and still is to the right. Global political tides don't turn very quickly.

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