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A view on injuries in the game
vicky_c (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 10:30
Dan the man (amongst others) talks to the beeb about injuries.

For me, itís an interesting counter-point to all of the noise about player welfare and burnout


[m.bbc.co.uk]

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
Tom Paine (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 10:44
Gives an excellent players' perspective, Vicky, but doesn't really explain the avalanche of injuries that's hit the Prem this Autumn. Is it just a blip or has the game reached a tipping point where it's becoming impossible to play at this level without an unacceptable and uneconomic rate of injury? Jamie Roberts blames the recent law changes which have increased the number and impact of collisions (gang tackling) and extended the ball in play time.

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
Rich W (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:05
Has gang tackling been affected by law changes?

Fundamentally there are too many games and not enough players because of the financial pressures on the game. How one squares that circle I am unsure.



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Re: A view on injuries in the game
Tom Paine (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:17
Roberts doesn't actually call it gang tackling. His point is that the surrender of the breakdown , at least for the first few phases, has led to League style lines across the pitch where the ball carrier is frequently hit by two or more tacklers, driving him back behind the gain line.
You can see why; dislodging the ball by the force of the tackle is a more effective way of creating a turnover than contesting the breakdown. Ref's are calling it a knock on even when the ball is clearly ripped (or reefed as they say in League) out by the tackler.

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
vicky_c (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:18
Well Exeterís flying in at the ruck certainly up the chances of injury to anyone standing in the vicinity.

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
grannyg (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:34
+1. Crazy how a head first 2 metre flying leap through the air is accepted by the refs. Surely proper rucking was much safer than this.

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
vicky_c (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:42
Quote:
grannyg
+1. Crazy how a head first 2 metre flying leap through the air is accepted by the refs. Surely proper rucking was much safer than this.

Part of the root of the problem is what is and isnít being allowed by the ref. If he chooses to ignore flying in off the feet, then sides will just keep doing it.

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
Tiggs (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:54
IMO a simple cure is all player must stay on there feet, and once off your feet you are out of the game and must immediately roll out of the way, and get back onside before you can enter play again.
No fundamental change to the rules, just enforcement.
Players then would have no incentive to go off their feet, or beyond the ball.



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/tighthead.gif http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/TigersFire2.gif

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
Tiggs (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 11:57
One thing that always wrankles with me is that the defending team can not go off their feet at the breakdown without penalty, but every attacking play can, and does, apart from the SH.
If the breakdown became more contested, but not physically so, then the ball would be kept alive a lot more.



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/tighthead.gif http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.bath1/Bath/Photos/TigersFire2.gif

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
daktari (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 12:04
Quote:
Tiggs
IMO a simple cure is all player must stay on there feet, and once off your feet you are out of the game and must immediately roll out of the way, and get back onside before you can enter play again.
No fundamental change to the rules, just enforcement.
Players then would have no incentive to go off their feet, or beyond the ball.

This

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
vicky_c (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 12:08
Quote:
daktari
Quote:
Tiggs
IMO a simple cure is all player must stay on there feet, and once off your feet you are out of the game and must immediately roll out of the way, and get back onside before you can enter play again.
No fundamental change to the rules, just enforcement.
Players then would have no incentive to go off their feet, or beyond the ball.

This

Yep, all day long!

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
SK 88 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 12:33
Quote:
Tiggs
One thing that always wrankles with me is that the defending team can not go off their feet at the breakdown without penalty, but every attacking play can, and does, apart from the SH.
If the breakdown became more contested, but not physically so, then the ball would be kept alive a lot more.

This annoys me so much too.

Also where attackers can enter from compared to defenders. The gate is meant to be the same for both sides!

I'm sure the angles that attackers fly on from increases the risks of a players knee buckling under them.

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
SK 88 (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 12:35
Having said that I'm not convinced there are many more injuries about than normal. Maybe its just happening to a few higher profile players like Vunipola and Cipriani?

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
Rich W (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 13:10
Ah - I understand Tom - and exactly so! I do watch a bit of League - but when I watch Union I want to see Union!

Of course in League you can't rip the ball in a gang tackle.

Agree totally with Tiggs: enter a ruck off your feet - or get so low that you are inevitably going to go off your feet (centre of gravity - hips above knees - head above hips) on either side - penalty. Strictly enforce the off-side line so that side entry - on either side - penalty. If you come into a contact with an opponent beyond the opposing back foot - even if you are on your feet - penalty. You can ruck over and past those already bound into the ruck but you must not play a man before he enters the ruck!

And if you tackle, leading with the head, shoulder or as stiff arm - red card.

I am in danger of ranting now so I will take a breath!



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Re: A view on injuries in the game
Tom Paine (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 13:23
Agree with all of above. It all comes down to refs enforcing the laws which, from what I've seen, they do at school levels. Be nice to hear the views of some of the elite refs on the breakdown.

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
Johns (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 13:25
This needs action from the top of World Rugby.

They should set up a body to oversea the game globally and take action against any union that allows referees to ignore the laws of the game.

The very best referees should be involved in driving up standards, not in just in their own union but where ever help is needed in driving up standards.

Perhaps referees should receive a bonus payment for outstanding performances.

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
vicky_c (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 13:51
Who is in charge of the refs these days at World Rugby? Is it still Joel Jutges??

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
Yorkie (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 13:57
Quote:
Rich W
Fundamentally there are too many games and not enough players because of the financial pressures on the game. How one squares that circle I am unsure.


Actually, while I believe the players deserve every penny they get paid and that they should try to maximise what they earn, for me, there is more money than ever in the game but fewer players are being paid a lot more. Agents (with their rake off) have pushed player wage inflation massively in the last few years. Very few of today's players have had to earn a living outside the game and see rugby as their career whereas in the early days of professionalism players were delighted to be getting paid for indulging in their hobby, so to speak.

The cash is there to have bigger squads but no Prem team is brave enough to allow all their highly paid stars to leave to accommodate this as they probably wouldn't be a Prem team for long! Is possible to square the circle but won't happen.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

 
Re: A view on injuries in the game
Rich W (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 13:58
But you can incentivise referees through performance based incentives all you like - but if the measures they are assessed against are wrong it's irrelevant.

The problem is that the issues we've mentioned are being wilfully ignored to create a highly severe (and un-necessary) risk to players' health and a significant reduction in entertainment and spectacle for those watching.

It's fruitless to introduce an incentive if it isn't an incentive to do the right things.



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Re: A view on injuries in the game
Yorkie (IP Logged)
12 October, 2017 13:58
I've said before, refs need more support, feedback and training plus the money should be found to make all the top refs professional.



http://www.jakehowlett.com/tuckshop/wrappers/chocolate/plain/yorkie-nutter.jpg

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