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RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
TheLeicesterTigers.co.uk (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 12:37
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Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Tiggs (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 12:38
Many thank to Yorkie for this article !



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Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Tiggs (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 12:46
20 teams sharing the revenues of what 12 clubs share now ?
There is the biggest issue. The big teams losing nearly half their income, and so Sugar Daddies have to pump more in just to keep where they are now, and the small clubs instantly becoming unable to compete, as they have no Sugar Daddy.
IMO, this would just make the rich a bit poorer, and make even more poor clubs unable to compete.
I struggle to see any positives for any of the clubs ?



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Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Stopsy (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 13:46
Thanks Yorkie, I'd get rid of both Marquee players as they introduce an uneven playing field.

Get rid of the Play Offs too as we should be able to avoid the international fixture clashes to a greater extent. Maybe even a new agreement with the RFU regarding numbers of EQP in each match day squad in return for reducing the number of Internationals any one player is able to play.
You could even have some end of season financial bonus allowed on top of the cap to clubs who have representatives unavailable through international call ups, even injuries cause by them

I'd rather watch a relegated Tigers in the lower division than a ring fenced mediocrity etc.

Paying the players more is a self generating cycle and we'll be helping the agents line their own pockets.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Yorkie (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 14:23
Quote:
Tiggs
20 teams sharing the revenues of what 12 clubs share now ?
There is the biggest issue. The big teams losing nearly half their income,

But haven't CVC been brought in to create more income for the sport? So they should be able to generate enough to at least maintain the status quo?

More games available each weekend for tv so larger tv deal?

Clubs will save a big tent salary?

I suppose the big plus for the current clubs is getting the security of status and income they seek via ring-fencing? Without all the down side that comes with ring-fencing?



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Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Yorkie (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 14:28
BTW, this article was quickly scribed when I first put up the other thread upon which there is already much discussion. And from the view I have that it's better when you say something is wrong if you can provide an alternative for discussion.



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Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Tom Paine (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 15:30
I quite like the idea, Yorkie, though I can't see it coming to pass unfortunately. Needs to be a gate between prem2 and league below - once every 3 years, lowest/highest average position over period with a playoff?

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
IDLETIMES (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 18:38
I am all forgetting rid of the marquee players but, Tigers, like a couple of other clubs had to agree to it to get the new wage cap in place. It's a good piece by Yorkie, as he always does, a genuine attempt t make some sense of a ridiculous idea. We could agree to ring-fence for 3 years but I wouldn't trust the barstewards, 3 would become 5, 5 would become 10 and then it would be permanent.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Yorkie (IP Logged)
29 January, 2019 20:56
I thought that I would look at the "movement" at the foot of the Championship at the end of each season.

Season / Promoted into Championship / Relegated from Championship

2017/18 Coventry Rotherham
2016/17 Hartpury College (Rotherham) No relegation due to London Welsh going bust
2015/16 Richmond Moseley
2014/15 Ealing Plymouth
2013/14 Doncaster Ealing
2012/13 Ealing Doncaster
2011/12 Jersey Esher
2010/11 London Scottish Birmingham & Solihull
2009/10 Esher Coventry

2008/09 Birmingham & Solihull Esher/Sedgley Park/Newbury/Otley/Manchester
2007/08 Otley/Manchester Pertemp Bees/Launceston
2006/07 Esher/Launceston Otley/Waterloo
2005/06 Moseley/Waterloo none


In 2009, league was reduced to current 12 team league with 1 team promoted and 5 relegated.


Interesting fact. In 1994/95, Sarries were Champions and promoted to the Prem the following season. Wakefield were also promoted as runners up that season. Sarries, Kings of Europe. Wakefield, defunct! Contrast ......



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Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
IDLETIMES (IP Logged)
31 January, 2019 13:48
Going back a bit further, remember when Bris . were the big west country team, Glaws were the sloggers and Bath were the babies, none of us had heard of Exeter and Tigers simply could not beat 'Cov'. home or away

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
31 January, 2019 16:10
Firstly, I am in favor of promotion/relegation BUT I think your idea has merit Yorkie.

What to do about Championship rejects/Division 2? Well i think you follow the same path. Once the 5 year project is complete you start the same process with the teams then in Div 2. Aim to get to 3 Leagues of Professional teams (30 teams) in the next 20 years.

What about the lost games? Well we bring back a propper League cup, so that keeps close links between the new Championship and those teams in the league below as those two leagues play in the first rounds and then you add in the 10 Top teams for the next round. Yes there is a tiny chance of a minnow having to face the European champions but if they get there they have earned the right.

As for entry requirements to the leagues, well i think we need to set the bar a lot lower. Teams Like Doncaster Have a very decent ground but it has a low capacity, but there is no point them having a 10K ground immediately. I think 2K to be allows into the second level and then a plan to get to 5K minimum over 5 years. I prefer a full small ground over an empty large ground.

I agree, scrap the Marquee slots. Either have a cap or dont. I prefer a sensible cap thats fixed for the length of a TV contract and re-assessed based on any new deal.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
melton tiger (IP Logged)
31 January, 2019 23:15
A good plan and I've advocated similar - old football league application for re-election should be the gate at the bottom of Prem 2. It allows financial deadbeats to be chucked out with potential Exeter's to get voted in. with the football league all applicants got re-elected in most years. Might need 3-5 years ring fencing to kick-off the new structure. I agree scrap Marquees. It's been a failure. English clubs have continued to underperform in Europe.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Parcdeprince (IP Logged)
01 February, 2019 08:18
Like the principle but think it falls a bit when you look closely at who the extra eight teams could be...Ealing Irish Quins Scottish Sarries competing within a few miles of one another. Is there a market for two clubs in Coventry plus Nottingham and Bedford in the catchment. Would have to have additional northern sides, but not sure if Leeds and Donny could both be a success.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
SK 88 (IP Logged)
01 February, 2019 11:55
London is massive it's one of the most under-served parts of the country. Remember it might look close on a map but The Stoop to Ealing is a pretty similar travel time to Leicester to Coventry.

Leeds and Doncaster are totally different markets, hardly anyone would travel from one to the other for anything other than a cricket test match at Headingly or St Ledger in Doncaster. For something as local as week to week sports teams the markets are always about an hour door to door travel time at the most.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Brownian Motion (IP Logged)
01 February, 2019 11:58
Does anyone currently lay claim to the south coast? Surely that is a potentially huge growth area.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
melton tiger (IP Logged)
01 February, 2019 12:35
Quote:
SK 88
London is massive it's one of the most under-served parts of the country. Remember it might look close on a map but The Stoop to Ealing is a pretty similar travel time to Leicester to Coventry.
Leeds and Doncaster are totally different markets, hardly anyone would travel from one to the other for anything other than a cricket test match at Headingly or St Ledger in Doncaster. For something as local as week to week sports teams the markets are always about an hour door to door travel time at the most.

I don't think there is enough support in Donny / Rotherham / Sheffield for union. The amateur clubs tend to be strong because they cover a big catchment and big lads who like sport who are no good at football will provide the player pool ( from my experience at Junior level Scunthorpe's teams are full of behemoths compared to Melton's slighter if more skilful players). The union fans I know in that area follow Leicester!

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
SK 88 (IP Logged)
01 February, 2019 12:40
Anywhere has enough people if someone with deep enough pockets drives it forward. Certainly to the same level as Newcastle or Sale at the least.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Tiggs (IP Logged)
01 February, 2019 12:51
Problem with that area is that folk are reluctant to travel to other towns / cities to watch.
No one from outside Leeds goes to Carnegie, same with Doncaster, and Sheffield.
As such each has a limited catchment, and would need many years to develop a good crowd, even if they could develop a ground and team.



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Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
melton tiger (IP Logged)
01 February, 2019 13:21
Quote:
Tiggs
Problem with that area is that folk are reluctant to travel to other towns / cities to watch. No one from outside Leeds goes to Carnegie, same with Doncaster, and Sheffield.
As such each has a limited catchment, and would need many years to develop a good crowd, even if they could develop a ground and team.

I think FACov have managed it - they are a West Midlands franchise with a massive population catchment area - clearly don't want to be branded as "Coventry". Of course if they had to play some games on a Friday night I doubt many would travel. Not sure the same approach would work in the Rother and Donny area though.

 
Re: RING-FENCING. AN ALTERNATIVE?
Tiggs (IP Logged)
01 February, 2019 14:24
But Wasps were already a big successful club, with big name opposition, moving to an established Rugby city.
Very different.



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