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Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Tiggs (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 12:05
Cricket and rugby union have been urged to take immediate action to tackle football-style dissent towards umpires and referees after the biggest study into the problem found that more than half had been verbally abused.

The report, written by academics at the University of Portsmouth, followed surveys with 1,228 match ­officials from grass roots to the elite and concluded there was “an urgent requirement for the England and Wales Cricket Board and the Rugby Football Union to intervene and attempt to improve the operational landscape”. In cricket, 56.5 per cent of umpires had endured abuse, while 45 per cent said that it ­occurred at least twice a season.

Report from the Telegraph.



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Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Stopsy (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 12:56
It works both ways, those who have an empathetic approach and a rapport with the players, not necessarily best mates, seem to attract a lot less abuse than the little generals.

Consistency within and between games let alone refs will help a lot. 10m, penalty, early card is all well and good but has to be applied consistently through the game. All too often it is a tick box, "I've ticked that one for my assessment so I don't need to look for recurrence".

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
jojo (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 15:35
if the performances of the refs improved perhaps the abuse would go down.

Get rid of the TMOs or do it properly may help.

I can never understand why the TMOs don't draw a line across the pitch (like they do in football) for forward passes or off side. It's clear and unambiguous. But I suppose it is the RFU. All about opinion so the refs can hide behind that.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Brownian Motion (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 15:38
Forward passes and offside aren't the same thing and can't be judged the same way, that's why. A forward pass has to take into account the forward momentum stemming from the running player, and a simple line across the pitch doesn't take that into account.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
jojo (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 15:43
I know that BM. But you can actually get an idea of whether the ball has travelled forward as a fact. Further if the player passing the ball forward is not ahead of the ball when caught then it is clearly forward under the definitions coming out backwards and having forward momentum. Especially if that is included in the guidelines issued to TMOs. Or is that beyond the capabilities of the rugby body.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Brownian Motion (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 15:54
What happens if:

- the wind catches the ball
- the passing player is tackled and stops moving forward immediately
- the receiving player starts in front, but ends behind the passing player

That's just off the top of my head; there are too many factors which need to be taken into account, IMO. And mostly the issue with forward passes doesn't seem to lie with the TMO, it's referees and linesmen not referring them for review in the first place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 16:11 by Brownian Motion.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Murphyjames (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 16:24
Does the survey cover abuse handed out to CEO's?.

By the way, before anyone jumps up & down, I don't agree with abuse.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
jojo (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 16:34
If the issue doesn't lie with TMOs then why are so many situations refered to the TMO who then ajudges forward or not, or when examined says forward pass. If ref saw it as forward on the pitch would have given it, if marginal why give the decision to a TMO.

This kind of discussion leads me more to the opinion why have TMOs.

TMO decision appear to reduce the confidence of referees and their authority. It also allows them to get away with not watching the game because if after the game it was seen that a referee allowed tries which clearly should not have been given then it would show which ones consistently got decisions wrong.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
11 June, 2019 21:27
Quote:
Stopsy
It works both ways, those who have an empathetic approach and a rapport with the players, not necessarily best mates, seem to attract a lot less abuse than the little generals.
Consistency within and between games let alone refs will help a lot. 10m, penalty, early card is all well and good but has to be applied consistently through the game. All too often it is a tick box, "I've ticked that one for my assessment so I don't need to look for recurrence".

This, but abuse of the useless g1ts has to be stopped too



The referee is the final arbitrary

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Tiggs (IP Logged)
11 June, 2019 21:34
Well comments like that on the pitch, and off it, are precisely the issue, or maybe that is your humour ?



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Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Rinkadink (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 08:26
Quote:
jojo
I know that BM. But you can actually get an idea of whether the ball has travelled forward as a fact. Further if the player passing the ball forward is not ahead of the ball when caught then it is clearly forward under the definitions coming out backwards and having forward momentum. Especially if that is included in the guidelines issued to TMOs. Or is that beyond the capabilities of the rugby body.

Passing doesn't work like this, speaking of rugby bodies this may help you;





It could work for offside but would probably result in some very harsh calls where a leg moves at last second as a player is starting to stand from a ruck or similar which technically moves the offside line.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Brownian Motion (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 09:46
Quote:
Rinkadink
It could work for offside but would probably result in some very harsh calls where a leg moves at last second as a player is starting to stand from a ruck or similar which technically moves the offside line.

Courtney Lawes against New Zealand springs to mind.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Fat Boy (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 10:53
First off, I would assume, simply due to the numbers, that most of these refs are refereeing grass roots rugby. In that context, the competence of and abuse of referees are separate issues. I played rugby for over a decade (15 years or thereabouts between my first and last games) and not once can I remember a situation where I or a team mate abused the ref. It is not acceptable and should not be happening, and where it does happen it should be dealt with.

At that level, the refs are giving up their free time to make the game we enjoy possible - and as a player I always appreciated their commitment. I don't expect them to get every decision right, because they are human. The players drop passes, miss overlaps, miss tackles, etc. - so why would or should we expect the refs to be different? There should be a culture that accepts that sometimes decisions will go against you, and you get on with the game regardless. It is after all, just a game.

And if the referee isn't very nice, so what? They are there to referee the match, not coming round to your house for dinner. If a ref is being abusive to players then that is different and should be dealt with as well, but I've never once seen that happening - and I'd imagine that refs would agree anyway.

In terms of why refs might be getting more stick at grassroots - I don't really think abuse by players or supporters at pro level is necessarilly the issue, on the pitch it doesn't happen that often and is dealt with when it does. If it is happening more at grass roots, I would put the 'inspiration' at the door of commentators - like Brian Moore, especially in his early days - who are regularly questioning and critical of referee performances. I can't really recall that being done when I first started watching rugby (there's a huge difference between a commentator saying a team were unlucky to get a decision against them, and calling the ref incompetent/should do their job/ridiculous/etc all of which I've heard), and that is where I would imagine your typical 16 year old is going to hear derision and criticism, and think it's normal and okay and apply it at the weekend.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
jojo (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 12:10
There have been multiple threads regarding forward passes and what constitutes a forward pass etc. I understand that.

BUT if you refer back to that game against Bath one of the criticism was that Bath scored a blatant forward pass try which was not refered back to the TMO with many clearly of the opinion that it would/should have been denied. The ball has travelled forward but was the hand motion going backwards? Could have gone either way IMO.

Take another example - ball passed on 22 on caught on camera as being caught infront of the 22 by two or three yards. Nearly always given as forward. The decision is going to be always an opinion so why not just leave it to the ref. The commentators are not helpful too as nearly always they say that the ball has travelled forward.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
12 June, 2019 14:21
Quote:
Tiggs
Well comments like that on the pitch, and off it, are precisely the issue, or maybe that is your humour ?

I would have thought you'd know me by now, Stephen



The referee is the final arbitrary

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Tiggs (IP Logged)
12 June, 2019 14:24
Sometimes too dry ?



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Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
13 June, 2019 12:37
Quote:
Tiggs
Sometimes too dry ?

I will try to be wetter



The referee is the final arbitrary

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
SK 88 (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 09:54
If the spate of red cards in the U-20s is anything to go by they will need to introduce much more transparency and processes around the referees in the Premiership. If the league starts averaging two red cards a weekend a lot more teams are going to be affected and a lot more tensions are going to boil over if the process isn't above reproach.

You can see people voting with their feet already and its just going to get worse if they don't cop on and realise people want the players to decide games not the referees.

 
Re: Rugby and Cricket to take action against ref abuse
Yorkie (IP Logged)
14 June, 2019 16:35
Quote:
SK 88

people want the players to decide games not the referees.


(Sm22)

What a weird concept!!!


(Sm161) Just in case.



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