Following today's performance and that of the team since Boxing Day, I think it's time for some radical team changes and a different approach from BV and the coaches!

We haven't built on an excellent first 3-months of the season, the team has been on a slippery slide down in both position & in form, we are out of both Cup competitions abnd if we continue as we are, we will struggle to stay in the top 4 of the GP!

I think it's time to give some different players a chance of first-team rugby! We are not achieving anything with the players we are using each week so what have we got to lose? The likes of Powell, Sorrell, Cato etc need a regular run in the side! Use some of our outstanding kids from the bench, lads like George, Farrell, Short and Sharp! Give Goode a shot at fly-half!

Lads who aren't normally in the team will bring enthusiasm, they will be determined to take their chance and want to retain their places! The kids will relish an opportunity for 20 mins a game and the experience will be vital for their futures! Look what we did with Powell, Cato etc we introduced them to first-team rugby gradually & now after 2/3 seasons, they are Saxons regulars! These young boys are our future, give them a chance!

Lets get behind all at Sarries, we've got an excellent team, fantastic academy, enthusiastic young coaches, top class signings for next season & brilliant fans! Together we can achieve!

we need to start playing our best fly half,Glen Jackson Hougarrd is one dimentional and the opposition know exactly what we are going to do KICK!!
ROTATION IS CLEARLY NOT WORKING

I think we already have the players at the club to play a more expansive game and that's why it's so frustrating watching them playing such a dull tactical gameplan. I think we're perhaps three or four players off being a very good side but that counts for nothing if the coaching staff insist on a "hoof and hope" gameplan and a rotational policy. Dr V, pick your best fifteen AND LET THEM PLAY!

It's the Good Doctor who is the problem. He has lost the team with his tunnel visoned approach and negative tactics. All of the flair and belief has been coached out of them and they are bored rigid along with the long suffering fans. Rugby should be a beautiful game played with enthusiasm, joy and flair. This team has been 'strangled' by Venter. Time to go time - now

I agree with ExLoosehead. It's the tactics not the players. Last 10 minutes today is how we should be playing all of the time. Intensity, ambition and direction. Yes, kick occasionally, otherwise teams will work you out just as they have our kicking game, but keep the ball in hand

Play Jackson at 10. we have him for 2 more months, make the most of him while we can.

I'd like to see Haughton in the team; he adds something extra and unpredictable. I thought he showed well today.

It seems to me that there has been a clear attempt to play a more expansive game. We are just not very good at it so it will take time! It is a bit difficult to play an expansive game with such bad discipline and poor scrummaging, which has been our downfall in recent weeks. I only listened to the commentry today but it sounded like our backs, especailly Ratouvu, were given a lot of ball today., it's just we didn't have a platform to work from.


And for those calling for BV's head, have we not learnt from previous experience??? We are in a bad spell, straight after an amazing three months. Our signings will hopefully solve some of our problems next year, I am sure we will be playing more positive rugby and suddenly those calling for his head will look foolish.

Exactly - we have the players to play, but we don't bother using them until it is far too late.

Another completely dispiriting 80 minutes, with the early drop goal attempts from somehwere near Welford Road causing derision in the ground and in the comm box.

Crass discipline issues that Brian Moore would understatedly call "dull". Great call skipper - try to kick the ball out of Dickson's hands in front of the ref and in front of the posts. "Dull and unedifying" as my learned friend would say.

When the commentators are making issues of this site calling for changes to the way we play and registering our disatisfaction, and the pundits are calling us pantomime villains, I am beginning to despair at the team I love becoming a laughing stock.

We CAN play good rugby, we CAN play for 80 minutes with 15 men. Until we learn how to to both at the same time, we will achieve nothing, and we will deserve our achievement.

And then you read on the 'fish...

"However, Sarries then lost captain Ernst Joubert to the sin bin for a reason only known to the referee "

It's called kicking the ball out of the scrum half's hand when you are flat on your @rse.

With spin like that, what hope is there?

It was very silly from Ernst, and spoiled an otherwise excellent performance from him. Botha too was immense, the hit on Dowson was at least the equal of Burger on Varnell.
Saull was a bit anonymous today, but Alex Goode outstanding.
The big turning point was conceding a penalty in their half with a few seconds of the first half remaining, which resulted in the quick counter attack and the Skuse sin-bin as well as losing the lead.
Why on earth did Marshall tap-and-go with no support from a penalty award on their 22 with the scores still close? He needed restraining to prevent him repeating the folly on a couple of other occasions.
I guess the real compensation was the outstanding performance of Tonga- we just need to put a decent sized second-row behind him to make it count.

I think people are over-reacting by calling for Venter's head! It takes time to build a team and to get all parts of that team working succesfully together consistently! The current coaching team have not even had a full season together yet and already people are calling for heads to roll!

Great teams aren't built in half a season, it takes time and collective effort! For too long Sarries have lacked consistency of coaching staff, playing staff etc and now all we want is a period of stabilty!

We have a great structure in place now to build for the future! Players signing long-term deals, young coaching team signing long-term deals, fantastic new signings arriving next season, very strong reserve side and academy!

Everything is in place for Sarries to be a very succesful team over the next decade, all it requires is time!

From the comfort of my armchair I thought Joubert was very hard done by. The scrum half picked the ball and his foot and dragged it around. No kicking involved at all.

As for Skuse - well he is just not good enough and that was the turning point.

Me - I am looking to next season now, Stevens, Tiny and a couple of more signings and we will be awesome.

You can't become the best team in the league in one season!

Identical situation on Saturday in the Calcutta match

Penalty no yellow card then

Consistency from referees is what the good doctor asked for

Quote:

gentleone
You can't become the best team in the league in one season!

I totally agree. We have improved significantly this year. The problem has been the squad though in the latter part of the year. With the likes of Gill, Borthwick, Ongoro & Augero (if they're still with us) likely to be missing next year as well, we need to bulk up in the front five. So far it will be:

Loosehead - Gill, Tonga'uiha, Augero?
Hooker - Brits, Ongoro?, Reynecke, George?
Tighthead - Nieto, Stevens
Lock - Borthwick, Smith, Vyvyan, Botha, Ryder

But if you take out the ones who may going to be missing for different reasons:

Loosehead - Gill, Tonga'uiha, Augero?
Hooker - Brits, Ongoro?, Reynecke, George?
Tighthead - Nieto, Stevens
Lock - Borthwick, Smith, Vyvyan, Botha, Ryder

Then we're looking at 1 or 2 players in each position. We could also go with a FH, as I wouldn't like to see Derick as much as we have this year. I would like Goode as our number 1 choice, and have a new signing alternate with Hougaard when Goode is unavailable, or when rotated.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14/03/2010 20:54 by MrRobby.

He tapped the ball out of the scrum halfs hand, stupid and asking for trouble from a ref who was definitely the boss! Thought Goode was very dangerous, surely with a player like him you should be running everything back (like our Bruce) Obviously,you must kick sometimes but..... You looked good with ball in hand, can't understand why you play the way you do?? Good luck with the run in. see you again at the sharp end!

You could have a Saracens team consisting of

Tiny
Brits
Hayman
Matfield
Borthwick
Van Heerden
McCaw
Parisse
Phillips
Carter
Wlliams
Roberts
O'Driscoll
Sivivatu
Goode

And it would still play the same way under the existing instructions:

Rubbish.

---

"There is a fine line between wrong and visionary. Unfortunately you have to be a visionary to see it."

Dr Sheldon Cooper

Sponsor me for Saints with Heart 2010 [original.justgiving.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/03/2010 21:10 by large.

I'm glad you don't make you true feelings know while commentating, it would have been even more unpleasant listening!

(Edit: Just realised the ambiguity of my statement. I meant unpleasant as in the team's performance, not your commentry. Your commentry is the best I have heard on the radio)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/03/2010 21:12 by Sarriecen.

The Good Doctor on the BBC report...

"The most positive thing was that the best player on the pitch, Northampton prop Soane Tonga'uiha, will be playing for us next season."

Well that bodes well for the rest of THIS season, doesn't it?

My glass is nearly empty - thank God there's another bottle in the fridge.

Sarriecen - on here you get Large the fan, on the wireless you get Jason the commentator.

I always go out of my way to make them distinct. On air I give a service, on here I give an opinion.

Thanks for your praise, all I set out to do is make my commentaries balanced and informative. If I can do those two, then I've done a good job.

---

"There is a fine line between wrong and visionary. Unfortunately you have to be a visionary to see it."

Dr Sheldon Cooper

Sponsor me for Saints with Heart 2010 [original.justgiving.com]

I have massive mixed feelings about today.

It was a Fab day out & I had a great time in The Gardens. The Saints fans round us were top.

The game was enjoyable. The first six minutes were divine. We were more than ‘in it’ at half time and played some great rugby. Some individual performances were superb. However the bottom line is we lost.

I disagree with the game plan we were obviously being asked to play to (one noticeable moment was the penalty when DH looked as if he wanted to go for corner, but upon looking at the bench opted to go for posts). DH played well. I think he symbolises BV on the pitch, so often gets a rough ride from us fans when we are frustrated with our coach. The second sin binning was our downfall, and although I didn’t see the incident from where I was, I thought the ref had a good game, so have to accept it was fair.

However I am not sure I can condone the comments about a re-building season. In Gaffney’s first ‘rebuilding’ season we made a semi and finished top 4. We will be lucky if we emulate this in the current season. I will revisit the promises we were made last year (in particular FarmFez’s question at the Feb 2009 fans forum) and the beginning of this, before I decide how positive I feel about this particular re-incarnation of the re-build, or if it really is just same-old, same-old.

kat,

i gotta say that my opinion on venter is that there is no plan B,

it was said about him at london irirsh which is why he was let go from there.

we had a brilliant run at the beggining of the season but i think most people did say that with the style of rugby that it would come to an end quite abruptly cos teams would work it out soon enough, the problem i have is that we haven't done anything to address the fact we are now losing playing the same way.

it is frustrating and extremely boring

Were in not for the fact that Gerraghty couldn't hit a barn door from ten metres with his kicking, my 40 to 50 point nightmare would have been reality, Venter os an arrogant foolish oaf, thinking that there is any hope for the team playing to his game plan, I feel sorry for the players this morning.

Quote:

large
Sarriecen - on here you get Large the fan, on the wireless you get Jason the commentator.
I always go out of my way to make them distinct. On air I give a service, on here I give an opinion.

Thanks for your praise, all I set out to do is make my commentaries balanced and informative. If I can do those two, then I've done a good job.

Your commentaries are always balanced and informative - excellent in fact.
Your posts on this board are always considered and informed too. For me, the fact that you've said what you have about the current situation indicates the significance of it.

Sarriecen, I think you are being far too harsh on the players who have done in general little or nothing wrong, its their off the field boss who has to chnage, the last thing we need is to chuck in a bunch of kids , when all we need is a radical change in the game plan and probably a new coach if he is to arrogant to admit it and do something about it, you cant blame Hoo Haa for Venters crass stupidity.

Dave,

Is it the coaches who don't bind in the scrum? Or who don't roll away in the tackle and get carded? Or knock the ball out of the scrum half's hands? Or knock on a record number of times against Wasps?

We DO need a change of gameplan, and we now have a fortnight to work on it, but NO gameplan is going to work if the players give away penalties and possession as easily as they have done in the last three months.

In all honesty, the off field stuff has massively improved this season, but surely a more pragmatic approach to the communications might have managed expectations a little better for the supporters?

Even when we were unbeaten a little bit of humility wouldn't have gone amiss, what we got was spin, hyperbole & critism for those that dared criticise. I understand the need for positive thinking, but what we're getting know is a backlash against the stuff peddled earlier in the season.

On the pitch the gameplan is still crap!

danilo, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Three things were wrong yesterday:

Discipline, Scrummaging and the Game Plan.

The discipline is solely the players fault, unless you think Dr V ordered them to give away penalties and get sin-binned.

The scrummaging is either the players or Cobus's fault or most likely a bit of both. That is not Dr V's fault.

The game plan is Dr V's responsibility, I'll give you that, but I still think if our scrum and discipline was good we would have stood a good chance.

Our backline does not appear to be as good as we all think so maybe BV has got it right in going for DGs and penalties, who knows!

To blame it all on the coaches is rather foolish, and the words you are using to describe him are not pleasant (an arrogant foolish oaf with crass stupidity is what you called him), especially from someone who complained at the amount of vitriol on this board. In fact, calling him an oaf is pretty disgraceful.

The coach is not the only problem, it is foolish to blame him and slip into the football mentality of blaming the coach whenever something goes wrong, without blaming the players.