Just reported on SSN. Moody to captain.

Please don't let it be long term!

B&&ger! They said it was a long-term injury - is it one that can hold on to close season with careful handling or is that the last we have seen of him for this season.

Whichever - best wishes, Steve.

hopefully a weeks rest will see him right & we can have back for Newcastle.

couldn't find a "fingers crossed" smiley

Melbourne here we come!!!!

Joke

Joke! Bad taste I know! I'll get me coat!

Can I suggest thta Borthwicks main aim will I am sure be too lead the English troops down South in the summer and secure his position as England's world cup skipper, he's not going to want to take it off recovering rom injury, Mr Moody has the opportunity to breathe right down his neck tomorrow,quite why Deacon has replaced him in the second row is beyond me.

Who else would you bring in?

Lawes?

Deacon has an older head and with the amount of new faces already in the team this week Johnson probably wants someone with experience to step in.

Quote:

WoodfordDave
Can I suggest thta Borthwicks main aim will I am sure be too lead the English troops down South in the summer and secure his position as England's world cup skipper, he's not going to want to take it off recovering rom injury, Mr Moody has the opportunity to breathe right down his neck tomorrow,quite why Deacon has replaced him in the second row is beyond me.

An older head? That's the problem England have been having for far too long - returning to old heads just to plug holes. What's the point? What point is there in us narrowly beating France playing a restrictive, lumbering game where Deacon just plods around as usual? This game has to be a start of a dramatic push on in style and cohesiveness as a side.

Saying that, is it possible that Palmer and Deacon are ahead of Lawes this week because Mallinder understandably put his foot down, after Ashton and Foden not being given their much deserved chance against the likes of Italy or Scotland, and instead are now selected when Northampton could actually do with them, for a final, and Northampton have demanded him back rather than having him warm the bench at the Stade de France?

Nice idea RobH, but I think the club/ country protocol would give Mallinder no say in the matter. This is one of the time blocks when country has first call.

No the clubs have no say in who gets selected for England and quite rightly so.

Tonight is Grand Slam decider, to send an experimental side just to give some kids experience would be an insult to the game and totally demeaning.

Pick on merit and nothing else, which is why Lawes should be in the 22

I'd rather have Nick Kennedy in than Lawes but that's personal choice.

Quite how Tom Palmer and Louis Deacon are better players than Nick Kennedy and Courtney Lawes is beyond me.

Replace Borthwick and bring in Kennedy with Lawes on the bench

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Everybody in rugby can see there is something special happening at Saracens...

I thought Moody was good as Captain yesterday. Probably deserves to keep it assuming Johnno sees him as a permanent team member from now on.

England need a shake up in selection, tactics and captaincy in my opinion.

For five minute yesterday I thought there was a new England coming out of hiding, but then Foden, Ashton and Flutey remembered they were playing under Johnson's orders and never looked as good again!

LNBD in the Times has it about right; the problem starts with Andrew, covers MJ's inability to manage Dave Aldred and goes on from there. Perceptive, and at alst the 2003 old guard are beginning to see MJ's appointment for what it has been.

Of course Andrew has to bang on about we're getting there; he appointed MJ in the first place so might be said to have a vested interest in carrying on until MJ has at last learned the job, even although in the process we shall be made to look awful in SA next year.

You are being two harsh Innings, that was a pretty solid performance by and standards, with half a dozen young turks in the team all of whom sttod up to the test with the possible exception of Dan Cole, the is was Jonno's second sesaon in the job, he hasn't been there forever and we have come 2nd and 3rd respectively, not great, but solid.

France won because of their awesome discipline, they only gave us one kickable penalty all night which Johnny duly slotted,our defence was solid and we scored the only try of the evening which was a bit of a blinder.

OK it got negative towards the end shoving Johnny on, to try and kick us out of trouble, when a second try would have done the trick nicely, but we were in drop gioal for victory territory in the end, and at least we didn't succumb to making pointless attempts from within our own half.

Given that Scotland beat Ireland, we didn't end up the season in such bad shape at all.

Jonno does need to take stock and shake up his coaching team a bit, and stop picking his old mates ie Deacon where their is no justification.

But there is a chance we might end up turning the corner,more of a chance than there would be if we sacked him now.

If Saracens lose their GP semi Final 12-10 at Welford Rd , I shall be impressed and would consider we had made progress, if we dont get there or get thumped when we do then we won't have made progress.

I was expecting England to be on the wrong end of a hiding on Saturday, I was wrong and am rather pleased and happy this morning.

Dave better than previous English performance but wouldn't you say the actual result was more about the French bottling it than the English performance can't see Tigers bottling like that in the semi !

Maybe a bit of both Gryff and no you certainly don't see Tigers bottling it.

But at this levelk as we have seen both in the Six Nations and the Prem, the diffrence between the teams isn't that high, Sarries are not as bad now as everyone makes them out to be, nor areare they as good as everyone here seemed to think they were on the pre christmas run.

The difference between a narrow win and a narrow loss is small.

England are not good enough at the moment but they are not that far off the pace, same goes for Sarries.

Both teams have the players to achieve their dreams IMHO, and both have coaches who would much that come second at the moment than take the chances you need to win, and maybe come fourth as a result.

I suspect both think they are be pragmatic this season, certainly for Jonno, 2011 is the yaer that matters, and he has the rest of this year to build up to it.

Saracens ought to be in the same position, but Edward G and Bendan V have overhyped us to such an extent this season, with it has to be said stupid and unjustified outpouings of positivity, that now not reaching the GP final will be seen as massive failure, Edward came here time after time saying no matter how negatively we played and how boring we were to watch we would be at Twickenham on 29th May, I dont think even he believes that any more, and now the fans are badly deflated and losing interest.

We are after all going to qualify for the HC aren't we.

Back on Borthwick, whilst he will play a major part in the World Cup as a second row, I suspect Moody will get the armband for keeps. He does come across as more inspirational.

I can only speak for myself, but I am neither badly deflated nor losing interest.

Winning is good, but the team is losing by small margins, a small improvement in form will see them winning again.

Agreed Convex about how easy it would be to start winning again, but not sure its about a small improvement in form, though that would help, its more about adjustments to a game plan that has been sussed, on Saturday we saw Jonno start tentatively to make those adjustments, will we follow suit on Sunday.

Two or three of the recent losses could have been wins, just as two or three of the early wins could have been losses.

So why play rugby that leaves you a few points either side of a win or loss, why not play rugby that has you winning by a serious margin, Tigers and Saints do, thats why they are one and two and one of them will lift the trophy.

I guess because BV and the other Sarries coaches think that we will get beaten if we play that way.

As they have forgotten far more about rugby than I know, I am inclined to believe them.

And that sadly Convex is why we are losers and one of them will be the winner, we wont be a disaster but we wont be the winner, in the GP there is only one winner and eleven losers and we by our own admission are not ready to win the top slot, we will be proud of ourselves to come fouth, possibly rightly so, so why all the Hype about us haedling for Twickenham, why not better management of the supporters expectations from a PR aspect.

The reason I feel England did so well on Saturday is that Tindall, Aston and Foden ripped in for a brilliant try early doors that put the French mentally on the defensive, let them know we they were in the game, Cato and Goode are quite capable of doing the same for us.

WD - after all you have said, you then come out and say you are pleased with England?! After a loss??!! Still a loss...

I thought the England performance on Saturday was a very good step forward from what we have seen previously this year. Unfortunately for Borths, it would now be possible to use Moody going forward, drop Borths out the squad and therefore hold him primarily responsible for the previous 2 years RA/MJ failings.
I am absolutely not saying that is correct but I can see it happening and a lot of the media jumping on it.
For me, Borths was and is a great captain but unfortunately not necessarily for the tactics his coaches have developed.

Yes because I thought be would get murdered 40 points plus, anilahated and secondly we played well, scored a great try which kept us in the game, if we hadn't scored the try when we did Parra would have kicked 15 points before opening up ripping us apart, we didn't kick possesion away and gave it a lash, if Sarries want to win the GP we need the same and more, if a HC place is all we want more of the same old same old will probably get us there.

I felt the stirring of a spirit of adventure in the England team that could take us forward, the problem for England is that the coaches have to start believing, they have the players at their disposal, and I don't see them going out of the World Cup before the semis, do they have the belief, do the coaching team have the belief to take them all the way, we saw signs on saturday that it could be happenning.

I am going to do a Mc Saracen now.

Sheridan
Hartley/Thompson
Stephens/Cole

Borthwick / Kennedy
Shaw / Lawes.

Moody (capt)
Easter
Croft

Care
Flood

Ashton
Gerraghty
Tindall
Cueto

Foden

Starts to look like a winning line up to me.

There is defiantely a place for Alex Goode in the squad and possibly Cato too. But will they getr the opportunity to show what they can do with ball in hand.

Can Cato prove he is as good or better a finisher than Ashton more imporatantly will he be given the oportunity to try at club level?

Why on earth would you play Steve Thompson?

He was rubbish even in his prime.

Lee Mears is leaps and bounds ahead.

Good point, had forgotten about him.

I do like the concept of bringing JW on at 10 in the second half and letting Flood drop back to 12, but that should give Jonno the confidence to play a Gerragty at inside centre at first to try and get things moving, you couldn't have Gerraghty in the side without someone else to place kick though, so hes not going to fet the 10 shirt in a hurry.

Geraghty was woeful for England in the autumn and having a 10-12 channel of Flood-Geraghty, against players like Bausterand isn't wise. Flutey is our best 12 and will improve towards the World Cup (I hope)

I agree with most of your selection WD but would look at getting Mullan in there and getting some game time. We need at good enough cover for Sheridan. And surely Vickery is ahead of Stevens. I also think David Paice should be ahead of Steve Thompson.

I would have Phil Dowson at 8. I would also have Lee Dickson at Scrum half and Ben Youngs on the bench. Miles Benjamin and James Simpson-Daniel are playing well, so Mark Cueto's spot is a personal choice I think, as there is also the likes of Monye, Banahan, Vainikolo, Cato and Strettle.

Take Cole out of the thinking, pleease.

What take Cole out on the basis of a poor 40 mins on saturday, hardly long term.

Agree with WD about Cole.

We have seen first hand what a good prop he is. He is only young and will mature into the role.

Even on Saturday he managed to display an unusual talent - making Payne look good.

Whatever set of front rowers we take on the plane, we need to get them playing faster. Getting to rucks faster, line outs faster. Moving faster not only gets you to the action more quickly thus preventing turnovers it also looks good and improves morale during the game.

Look at Ireland and Scotland on Saturday and how guys like Cian Healey and Euan Murray were scrumming down one moment and then rushing 40m to the ruck the next. Did we see Payne, Hartley and Cole do that? Nope although Vickery, Sheridan, White, etc wouldn't be much better.

As for the back row. Oh how I pine for a back three of Croft, Saull and Narraway. Am I the only one who thinks that Narraway has been treated harshly? Every time he's played for England he has turned in a superb performance and during the abortive trip to New Zealand in 2008 he put the fear of god into the All Blacks (no mean feat).

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Cole had to go on Saturday because he got on the wrong side of the ref and was getting pinged, not a lot but, the French weren't getting pinged at all, perfect discipline in the penalty zone, had it not been for their discipline we would have beaten them.