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Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Plastic Welshman (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 09:17
BY A REFEREE!!

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Innings (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 09:20
Don't blame the referee for our own shortcomings. He was not as bad as you suggest; our inability to impose our own style on the game was the difference between between the strength of the two teams, not the referee's performance.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Sam Skennel (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 09:25
No - don;t think we can blame Rolland for that performance. 3 points from the boot and never threatened the try-line until the last 5 minutes or so. Inconsistent, maybe, but not to blame.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Ginger John (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 09:27
Plastic Welshman, would you be the one who sits in the Rous abusing the ref ever 15 nanoseconds or so?

If not then I apologise, but don't think our shortcomings and the oppositions exellence are down to a poor ref.

There will always be some controversial decisions in games and some will be singled out for discussion. But don't let us go down the route of finding someone else to blame.

Take it on the chin.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Kat. (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 09:27
The ref was fine.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Gryff (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 09:59
Thought he was poor at scrummage time otherwise fine. Beaten by better team men against boys

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
cap587 (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 10:00
Ref wasn't perfect but no one is. He made a couple of iffy decisions favouring Clermont but also some went our way. The fact is, we were outplayed in almost every single department by a better team and even a biased ref in our favour wouldn't have led us to victory.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
mk-fez (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 10:54
Yes Rolland was dodgy at the scrum (when the two front rows came up), but we made it easier for him to ping us because we weren't scrummaging properly most of the time.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
saracens4life (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 10:57
Watching the game back - contrary to how I saw it at the time - Rolland was absolutely fine.

Still don't think it's right that the ERC/IRB put him in the inevitably compromising position where he's a Frenchmsn reffing French sides.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Ginger John (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 11:01
He's Irish with French parentage. He's a referee, it's his job.
He may have a fondness for things French. But he won't go out of his way to be biased against other sides.

It's not a problem he was okay and proved he could do the job.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 11:05
I find it quite sad that this thread was started, Rolland was fine yesterday... we were beat fair and square by a better side, end of !

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Convex Hull (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 11:16
We were beaten fair and square, but I didn't understand some of his scrummaging decisions. I did play at prop, albeit not a very well.



Regardez mon visage. Suis-je bovvered?

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
1876-Fez (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 11:26
Plastic....IMHO you are wrong...he wasn't perfect...not many refs are.



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Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
PhillFez (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 11:32
The better side by far won, Rolland missed a lot in front of us including a Sarrie knock on but it is frustrating when at one single ruck ASM entered from the side three times, I think that flavours the origin of the post.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Neville (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 13:51
Rolland had a mare at the scrum. By the end of the 1st half we generally had the upper hand and in the second half were dominating. I dont recall one resulting penalty to us.

I do recall a pen to them early on after we had driven straight and level and they had gone up.

I recall a pen against us when Rhys missed his bind. Just one miss. All it needed was a word and a reset. Instead he gave a pen, which they kicked. Rediculous decision.

These early pens gave them points opportunities and a momentum which cannnot be underestimated.

Rolland seemed to ignore the offside rule for them. He only gave one offside decision that I can recall and of course that was against us, killing an early attack.

He ignored their forwards coming in from the side at rucks

And I really didnt like his cosy chat with Rougerie in the second half. Im absolutely sure that it was innocuous but he just shouldnt do it.

None of this could have effected the overall result. We were worked out and worked over. The second half kick return by Lee Burn was the death knell of our kicking strategy. They were better than us at everything.

But Rolland favoured them and refereed poorly, seemingly having no idea at scrum time.Arbitrary and often wrong. He isnt a top class ref.And the suspicion of partiality lingers unpleasantly.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Plastic Welshman (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 14:24
Totally agree Neville!

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
matabass (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 14:41
Several inconsistencies from the ref/touch but that is the norm these days. Beaten by a better team is the reason we lost. How we go about becoming a better team should be the focus now. It is up to the management and players to continually address this, and up to the fans to keep supporting them all in a positive way! I don't support Sarries just when they win, but I will be the first to admit that I do get frustrated when the players/management/fans don't do the job they should be. As a club we are still progressing and cannot expect to become a Clermont/Leinster/Munster/Leicester in just a couple of years. This period is a test of our resolve and character, and we should be supportive of what everyone at Sarries is doing with the long term plan for the club. We now have to give it everything for the last games of the season. Go Sarries!!!

Realistically I'd have taken HC QF and 2nd in the league at this point of the season. A semi would have been epic, but it was not to be this time. We have given a good account of ourselves, and the lack of European success for Premiership clubs this year may go some way to the powers that be considering changing the ridiculous imbalance between us and France/Ireland. It is not a genuine European competition unless all teams have equal opportunity.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
PhillFez (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 16:32
Don't disagree with anything you say matabas but the additional frustration of an inconsistent ref doesn't help the pain.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
phil_t (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 17:43
Quote:
Ginger John
He's Irish with French parentage. He's a referee, it's his job.
He may have a fondness for things French. But he won't go out of his way to be biased against other sides.

It's not a problem he was okay and proved he could do the job.

Noone is saying he is biased, but he is put in a position which the IRB, ERC, whoever, should have enough common sense to realise is a conflict of interests. As a player, he was eligible to play for Ireland and France, and on that basis shouldn't be able to referee games involving France, or French teams. This came up during the world cup, and it comes up again.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
danilo2 (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 17:47
I'm hoping that given the lack of sense that IRB/ERC/RFU show in appointing referees that if Glenda ever wanted to pursue his refereeing career over here, we might get him every week!

Although, I'm not sure even he would have been able to change the result yesterday - even if he'd seen the scrummaging issues and the countless examples of blatant blocking that M. Rolland and his 'assistants' missed.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Ginger John (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 18:37
Quote:
phil_rich tea_now in leeds
Quote:
Ginger John
He's Irish with French parentage. He's a referee, it's his job.
He may have a fondness for things French. But he won't go out of his way to be biased against other sides.

It's not a problem he was okay and proved he could do the job.

Noone is saying he is biased, but he is put in a position which the IRB, ERC, whoever, should have enough common sense to realise is a conflict of interests. As a player, he was eligible to play for Ireland and France, and on that basis shouldn't be able to referee games involving France, or French teams. This came up during the world cup, and it comes up again.

So I don't understand what the issue with Roland being appointed is then.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
derbyshire fan (IP Logged)
09 April, 2012 18:52
I watched the game on TV with a 'neutral' fan; both of us were very much of the view that there were no real issues with the ref - not perfect, but pretty fair overall.

Simply we didn't play well enough. Let's stop this assumption that the ref is biased simply because we don't get very penalty we one-eyed ones think we should

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
kiwisarrie (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 00:42
Plastic Welshman

Rolland is Irish/French. By the logic expressed in another thread on this board Rolland is biased towards the French but presumably not the Irish?
If Rolland can't ref French games then I guess you would say he should ref Irish games.
Using that logic no English ref should be able to ref a game where an English team is playing as they also would be biased? Or do people think only a ref with French parentage is biased?

Its ridiculous - being a ref is tough enough, On the whole they do a good job (all of us will see things they don't whistle for) just as well though as we wouldn't have a game.
Rolland does ok.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
JohnMB (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 00:57
Rolland is Irish. He was born in Ireland to a French father and Irish mother. He was raised in Ireland, educated in Ireland and before he became a Ref he was employed in Ireland by the Irish Mortgage Corporation. He played his club rugby with Blackrock and his international rugby with Ireland as a scrumhalf in both cases.If he'd been born in France, educated there, employed there, played his rugby there and played for France, Plastic Welshman and Neville might have a case but he didn't and they don't. All they do have is a predudice.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
10 April, 2012 11:53
The worst call by Rolland was when he allowed Joubert to be pulled out of the air on our lineout near the 22 at the South End in the first half then 2 mins or so later pinged Sarries for a similar interference with the ASM jumper on their ball. Very inconsistent I felt.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
10 April, 2012 11:55
Oh and the linesman should have mentioned something to Rolland when Shorty was barhed into touch on a kick chase and then in touch barged again into the hordings. The first barge was illigal but you see it a lot the second was farcical!!!

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
beshocked (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 12:07
Rolland is a poor ref but he wasn't to blame for Saracen's loss.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Neville (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 12:31
I agree with that totally.

But the suspicion remains that he tends to favour French teams, a suspicion that was not put to rest on sunday.

We wont see him refereeing Irish team because he is Irish, so i'm not sure I follow Kiwi's point above.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Hoggers (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 12:38
At the end of the day MOST of the refs we see are inconsistent. i must admit that when Rolland kept pinging our scrum I was a bit miffed and also the Shorty incident should nave been spotted by the touch judge but it does not alter the fact that we were well beaten. Let's just take it on the chin learn from it and move on.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
kiwisarrie (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 14:11
I guess Neville the point I'm trying to make (not very well) is that by saying Rolland is biased towards France because he has a French father and an Irish mother having been brought up and playing rugby for Ireland we have problems.

The reason we know Rolland's parental background is because that he speaks fluent French so no its fairer on the French teams will understands better what he's saying.

Do we know the parental nationality of every other top class ref? e.g. perhaps a ref has an English mother & a Scottish father or a Welsh father and Canadian mother. In other words where do you draw the line? Are all refs with parents of differing nationalities biased?

I truly don't believe refs are actively biased. - not that I always agree with their decisions! But there will always be decisions that the other team doesn't agree with either. Refs are trained, watched, analysed etc during and after every game. Any suggestion of real bias surely would have been picked up.

Back to the Clermont game we lost because we were not good enough. Clermont were more street wise and played great rugby and took their chances. That is what Sarries have to aim for and we can do it. However, We need to do something about our scrum, our injuries to our flankers and we need a game breaker. We never really looked like scoring a try. Maybe Ashton will serve that purpose?

The best teams win regardless of the referee.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Roger G (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 15:02
Quote:
kiwisarrie
...Do we know the parental nationality of every other top class ref? e.g. perhaps a ref has an English mother & a Scottish father or a Welsh father and Canadian mother....

Some of them we'll never know who their father was!
(Sm73)


Quote:
kiwisarrie
Back to the Clermont game we lost because we were not good enough. Clermont were more street wise and played great rugby and took their chances. That is what Sarries have to aim for and we can do it....

Absolutely spot on!!

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Neville (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 16:31
All I am saying Kiwi is that for some time there has been a suggestion that Rolland favours French teams. It is suggested that this is perhaps to do with him having a French dad.

Either of those points could be true but, are unlikely to be so. Like you I agree that no top class ref has pronounced partialities. And to speculate as to the motivation for something that hasnt been established as fact is daft

But on sunday Rolland failed to deal fairly with us,and ignored what to me and those around us seemed obvious infringements by ASM.

Thus the suspicion of partiality hasnt been obviated which it would have been if he had been even handed

Mind you in my experience as a schoolboy flanker at Leyton County High in the 1960's refs had clear and distinct partialities. Leyton Refs were Leyton schoolmasters who semed to delight in finding things to penilise those boys whom they didnt like!

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Convex Hull (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 17:55
Vickers makes the same comments as many here in the coach's cut.



Regardez mon visage. Suis-je bovvered?

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
kiwisarrie (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 17:59
Hey Neville
I suspect we are in agreemeet actually! I still think that Clermont would have seen infringements by Sarries that weren't blown up which we perhaps choose not to see.

I guess there always has been some subjectivity in refereering otherwise the whistle would be going all the time for the regular infringements by all teams. Perhaps touch judges (or assistant referees) should be more involved than they seem to be especially in top games where so much hangs on the decision. What do you think? Mind you you would have to have top quality touch judges!
I was really peeed off by Parra throwing himself to the ground in a real Hollywood and it was demonstrated he wasn't touched! Why wasn't that a yellow card - blatant cheating.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Herby (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 23:17
I've watched several matches on TV reffed by Rolland. Quite simply he is not up to reffing.

Perhaps the worst decision on Sunday was at a ruck was when one on their props ran at and shoulder charged one of our defending players to the floor. He took no action. Not fit to ref a game of rugby if he can't even ref things out in the open in front of his nose.

Spending £40 on a ticket I expect better from the standard of officials.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
To Mega Therion (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 10:23
Stop whining, FFS. The much better team won.



https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMpKHV_mtVeNi9mSYLq3K1i9NvBslw7N8R4UvEbLchopTFrP2k
Eparistera Daimones

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
warwickh (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 11:26
What a load of one eyed nonsense. I havent been to VR for over a year and i thought Clermont were worth the admission alone. Awesome display

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
AlanE (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 11:30
Agreed. It was probably the best performance by a visiting side since...well, since the last time Clermont were here.

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
King Zak (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 18:53
I have no problem with Rolland and thought he had a good game. If he was 'biased' he would have binned Hodgson for the 'late, high hit on Parra'

The lineout calls - We dropped Joubert, Botha took out their supporting player. The scrums are always a bit of a lottery and as people have moaned so much about reset scrums he chose (correctly IMHO) to penalise rather than reset.

Having watched the game back on tv, I thought he reffed the scrum very well



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
JO'G (IP Logged)
12 April, 2012 09:32
the only thing I was annoyed about was the two lineouts that almost followed each other

1) Sarries drive, under control disrupted by a number of Clermont players coming in from the side (not just one of them) - allowed to disintigrate. Should have been 3 points

2) Shortly afterwards identical situation in the Sarries half - Clermont penalty that closed out the game

No question that the better side won though. Just felt that we might have rescued it from 19-6

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
King Zak (IP Logged)
12 April, 2012 14:58
BTW, if you seriously thought that was the worst ref performance ever, I assume you've never seen Dave Rose - unless of course you actually ARE Dave Rose, in which case I claim my £5



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: Probably the worst performance I have ever witnessed!
Convex Hull (IP Logged)
12 April, 2012 20:50
Pahh! Rose, he is faultless compared with some...

I give you SLander - Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Rugby Premiership.



Regardez mon visage. Suis-je bovvered?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2012 20:53 by Convex Hull.


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