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'Sup - 2nd Test
King Zak (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 02:35
Well, fair to say I didn't see that coming!! Let's hope it's as successful as the 2013 dropping of BOD

[www.skysports.com]



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Static (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 03:50
Can anyone explain AWJ still in the team!

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Waldo (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 05:50
Well as suspected George Kruis misses out! I thought Lawes might have started with Kruis on the bench .

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
flavman 35 (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 07:57
Static he is Welsh. With garland that is all you need

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
JO'G (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 07:58
Quote:
Static
Can anyone explain AWJ still in the team!

I am given to understand he is Welsh



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
flavman 35 (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 07:59
I believe looking at that line up we have just lost the series.
Two had a really good game in the first test and now he puts Farnell in his place to accommodate sexton who hasn't played well all tour.
Should have stuck with the same side just changed HIS tactics, which is what cost us in the first test. Well @#$%& off now

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 08:07
I like this team better with Faz and seton playing, i think having both of team will hopefully bring a bit more composure when it comes to us finishing breaks. I am pleased he stuck with the back 3 as they were excellent.

AWJ is very lucky imo, he looked old and slow last week and to me does not deserve to start at all, apart from his experience, just can't see a single area on the field where he can cause the all blacks any issues, hopefully he can get through 45 minutes and lawes comes on to replace him

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 08:31
I'm not sure moving Owen to 12 is the answer. We lost the last game by losing the gain line. I can't see where our go forward is in the backs now.

Also, as good a defender as he is, I think it is a massive ask to get him to contain SBW.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 08:32
I have briefly written up my views here;

[rugbymarvel.wordpress.com]

Jones must have some seriously risque pictures of Gatland, otherwise how is he still holding onto his test place.

Rugby Marvel called the Sexton/Farrell axis, but lets see if it now works...

Shame for Kruis, as despite poor display, still an important cog in the lineout machine and on better form than Jones.

Please comment with your views, like if you like it and follow if you want to read more!

RM

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 08:45
Agree with Flavman!
I could understand them not playing the lock partnership that has helped win champions cup for last 2 years,if AWJ wasnt playing!!
Not happy with Teo missing out to accomodate Sexton either or SW starting!!
Apart from that great side!
Would love to eat large slice of humble pie smiling smiley



Double Champions of Europe,we know who we are!! smiling smiley

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 08:56
Quote:
#wolfpack
I'm not sure moving Owen to 12 is the answer. We lost the last game by losing the gain line. I can't see where our go forward is in the backs now.
Also, as good a defender as he is, I think it is a massive ask to get him to contain SBW.

I agree about losing the gain line but, i think we lost the game really because their front 5 had a better game, i think the lions will look to play wider and hopefully with Faz at 12, another 10 who has a calm head to finish up the breaks the lions will make.

As for AWJ, having just heard maro say he will be calling the line outs, i just for the life of me cannot understand why he is there, if they were not playing kruis, lawes should be starting with Hendo on the benc, i just don't see what area of the game AWJ will trouble the all blacks, he is not that athletic, does not carry that well, is not as good in open play as the others, is not more physical than lawes and lawes has 58 caps so he is not inexperienced, i don't get it at all

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
King Zak (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 09:08
It does seem somewhat baffling. We're playing against, arguably, the best rugby team ever. There are bound to be areas of the game in which they dominate. SBW will off load, they will dominate the speed of the breakdown, Barrett will make clean line breaks; Lions need to make sure they take their chances when they come. Last week, Lions created some fantastic opportunities but were unable to finish them off, ABs take their opportunities. I think there has been a complete over-reaction to last week's performance. The ABs will always score in the region of 30 points per game, Lions need to score 35 to have any chance of winning (unless ABs have a really bad day). Is this team more likely to hit that target than last week's?



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Rolls (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 09:09
I think Kruis is unlucky, to go from nailed-on starter to not making the bench because of one indifferent performance is harsh. I would have loved to have seen him and Maro start together, they weren't bad last season, with Lawes and/or Henderson on the bench. I think Garland has tweaked the wrong part of the team, I hope I'm wrong. I still think A W-J is lucky to be in the side.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
primavesi (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 09:14
Realistically any combination we put out would probably lose to this New Zealand team, but I don´t mind this.

He had to at least try something different, and Sexton-Faz gives us that.
Kruis, unfortunately, was poor on Saturday and not surprised to see him make way for Maro. Presumably AWJ will call the lineouts. I didn´t think he played that badly - one dropped pass but certainly not alone there. Warburton is probably also a pretty obvious switch considering how 2nd best we were at the breakdown.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
primavesi (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 09:18
Quote:
King Zak
Is this team more likely to hit that target than last week's?

In my opinion yes. Sexton-Faz should cause more problems than Faz-Teo hopefully.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Barnetsarrie12 (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 09:19
Itoje is calling the line outs primavesi, he said that in his press conference this morning

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 09:58
I think with Farrell at 12 everything gets very lateral.

Also, the idea of playing fast and loose and wide against NZ seems a bit odd to me. I'm not sure I want to see turnover ball very far from the forward pack...

The only way I think Farrell and Sexton makes sense is that the Lions intend to kick the leather off the ball and try and play as much rugby as possible in the NZ 22.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Waldo (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 11:00
Interesting that Gatland doesnt play Liam Williams at Full Back for Wales - do you think he will now ?

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Brighty_Fez (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 12:13
for wales you seem to think he has to justify using halfpenny as he is one of the quota on non wales based players in the squad

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Waldo (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 13:58
Perhaps Williams will now become that !

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
GerryK (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 16:49
it is likely that Sarries will just use Liam as a winger when Alex is playing,(as a direct replacement for Ash) then revert him to full back when a change is required

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
JO'G (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 16:54
The thought of Alex and Liam running back ball is quite mouthwatering



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
The Bard (IP Logged)
29 June, 2017 18:28
The selection of AWJ before the first test looked bad, and looks astonishing now. Sure GK dropped some balls but AWJ simply looked old and slow. Given the chance to do it again, I suspect I know who would be more likely to put it right.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
King Zak (IP Logged)
30 June, 2017 08:27
Have to admire his commitment and support for the Lions 'concept'. But if the answer really is, 'let's get physical' tomorrow, then why no Kruis or Lawes from the start??



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
30 June, 2017 09:36
Quote:
Static
Can anyone explain AWJ still in the team!

Good Morning Everyone!23 hours until kick off...

EXCITED.

Worried the side isn't going to match up to the All Blacks, but hoping they prove me wrong.

I have looked at Alun Wyn Jones' performances this tour, and discussed whether he deserves this test start.

[rugbymarvel.wordpress.com]

Please give it a read, comment if you agree and like/follow!

So Glad Itoje made it.

Moment of the tour so far - Itoje on the sidelines waiting to come on in the first test, he emits a guttural roar before charging on a smashing anything in his way.

He then calmly answers numerous questions in press conferences with such articulate and calm responses. Next England Captain - Yes please.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
SaintED (IP Logged)
30 June, 2017 16:29
I don't get the majority of the calls tbh.

One of the main takeaways seemed to me to be that we needed to keep hold of the ball more and keep it in play, kick to open field less and also address the lack of physicality at the ruck and in carrying. So we need a strong lineout so we can kick off the field and at least as many carrying options plus more physciality at the breakdown.

One part of the game that really worked last week was the lineout. Not only did we win good ball but we also spoiled and stole All Black possesion. Gatland has taken out the lineout caller and the primary jumper. Not sure how competitive that is going to leave us? Really feel for Kruis. I thought he had a poor game by his own high standards but that is literally the first game I have seen him struggle to make an impression and dropping him feels like a massive over-reaction.

Gatlands then taken out Te'o who made a mistake in attack but did a huge amount to keep SBW quiet for the first 60. As soon as he was subbed SBW started making ground. I expect both their midfielders to target Farrell and I just hope he is neither injured or ends up carded with his propensity for hitting high (legally, but if it rides up he could be in strife)

Then we have the addition of Warburton who only really helps the issue of the breakdown if we end up on the backfoot again. He adds little to carrying and is a decent lineout option but not in PoM or Lawes league not to mention that he hasn't played much nor earned his place in the XV.

Finally the call to start AWJ. Poor call but not near as poor as letting Lawes play almost 50 minutes on tuesday. If AWJ is as poor again or takes a knock Lawes gets to step up hvaing already played a very hard game earlier in the week. Idiocy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 30/06/2017 18:28 by SaintED.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
30 June, 2017 17:18
Some thoughts on the most important three Head to Heads tomorrow...

[rugbymarvel.wordpress.com]

Enjoy!

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Sara'sman (IP Logged)
30 June, 2017 17:34
(As usual) I largely agree ED. Like most armchair critics, watching live I felt that GK had a poor game by his standards. But as is so often the case a couple of very poor plays (a drop and a strip) caught the eye and took away from the rest of his game. His lineout in defence and own ball was faultless, his defence around the park the usual energetic standard, his carrying generally sound but hindered by the lack of support and alternatives. He can both kick himself and feel hard done by! Jones should be back in Wales.

I'm no fan of Farrell at 12, neither his tackling nor carrying is strong enough for this position, just hope I'm proved wrong tomorrow and Williams doesn't boss the gain line. I'd also like to see Mako arrive on 45, once the game has opened up a little.

My main hope for tomorrow is that we come away without any injuries. Watch your knees boys.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
King Zak (IP Logged)
30 June, 2017 18:42
I also expect Barrett to be far more involved ball in hand tomorrow. He'll put pressure on Sexton, that'll be sufficient to 'hold' Farrell and thus giving SBW all the time he needs. Farrell at 10 almost always means the opposite number plays a bit deeper purely because of his aggressive speed off the defensive line.



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
30 June, 2017 19:13
Quote:
SaintED
I don't get the majority of the calls tbh.
One of the main takeaways seemed to me to be that we needed to keep hold of the ball more and keep it in play, kick to open field less and also address the lack of physicality at the ruck and in carrying. So we need a strong lineout so we can kick off the field and at least as many carrying options plus more physciality at the breakdown.



One part of the game that really worked last week was the lineout. Not only did we win good ball but


we also spoiled and stole All Black possesion. Gatland has taken out the lineout caller and the primary jumper. Not sure how competitive that is going to leave us? Really feel for Kruis. I thought he had a poor game by his own high standards but that is literally the first game I have seen him struggle to make an impression and dropping him feels like a massive over-reaction.

Gatlands then taken out Te'o who made a mistake in attack but did a huge amount to keep SBW quiet for the first 60. As soon as he was subbed SBW started making ground. I expect both their midfielders to target Farrell and I just hope he is neither injured or ends up carded with his propensity for hitting high (legally, but if it rides up he could be in strife)

Then we have the addition of Warburton who only really helps the issue of the breakdown if we end up on the backfoot again. He adds little to carrying and is a decent lineout option but not in PoM or Lawes league not to mention that he hasn't played much nor earned his place in the XV.

Finally the call to start AWJ. Poor call but not near as poor as letting Lawes play almost 50 minutes on tuesday. If AWJ is as poor again or takes a knock Lawes gets to step up hvaing already played a very hard game earlier in the week. Idiocy.

Agree 100% Martin ...bizarre 23 selected



Double Champions of Europe,we know who we are!! smiling smiley

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 08:47
'Go Maro Itoje' echoing around the stadium! smiling smiley

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
vunipolae (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 09:50
Mako Vunipola has been incredibly harshly dealt with across the game. The scrum penalty both the NZ hooker and TH go down first. The ruck penalty he's clearly on his feet maybe his knee went down off screen but a couple of minutes before that Cane was clearly on his knees and won a penalty which was described as flawless technique by the commentators. The charge down I'm not sure what he was meant to do and Garces let an identical challenge in Farrell go unpunished a couple of minutes before. The final challenge probably was a penalty but it's no different to what happens in most rucks

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
King Zak (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 10:17
Well, that's humble pie for my breakfast!



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Jim 55 (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 10:24
Nice tasty pie though Chris....

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 10:28
Quote:
King Zak
Well, that's humble pie for my breakfast!

Me too!!
SBW was a tad silly!



Double Champions of Europe,we know who we are!! smiling smiley

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Barnesy (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 10:43
Quote:
vunipolae
The charge down I'm not sure what he was meant to do and Garces let an identical challenge in Farrell go unpunished a couple of minutes before.

Wasn't even an identical challenge he let go, no attempt to charge down just a shoulder charge after the ball had gone

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
The Bard (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 10:59
There's always a risk the ref will try and even things up after a red card, it certainly happened today. What a fight back in the last 20!
Was Maro man of the match?

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
RugbyMarvel (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 11:14
What a victory. Didn't think the Lions would capitalise on the SBW red card (definitely the correct decision)...

Still shaking, haven't stopped since kick off.

Heroes and Villains from this test?

------> [wordpress.com]

Comment, like and follow. Also, who would be your two heroes and two villains?

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
TrailblazingScot (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 12:44
Heroes? Jaime George and Connor Murray. Villains? Easy. SBW and testicle grabber Vunipola.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2017 12:54 by TrailblazingScot.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
The Bard (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 13:04
Quote:
TrailblazingScot
Heroes? Jaime George and Connor Murray. Villains? Easy. SBW and testicle grabber Vunipola.

Beauden Barrett must keep his jewellery in a strange place...

Mako seemed to get on the wrong side of the ref at every turn, really not convinced it was all justified and on that basis alone should have been replaced after the first TMO intervention.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
TrailblazingScot (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 14:44

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
GerryK (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 14:55
Thought Maro and Jamie did exceptionally well, Mako did not have one of his better outings.
All set up nicely for a final battle next Saturday.

We can but hope

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Maroon Tyke (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 15:55
Quote:
GerryK
Thought Maro and Jamie did exceptionally well, Mako did not have one of his better outings.
All set up nicely for a final battle next Saturday.

We can but hope

As a result, I think Mako may well lose his starting slot next week. Otherwise same team as today.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
King Zak (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 16:50
Quote:
The Bard
There's always a risk the ref will try and even things up after a red card, it certainly happened today. What a fight back in the last 20!
Was Maro man of the match?

Maro was exceptional but Sean O'Briwn was even better!



Nous sommes l'armée noir et rouge !

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
JO'G (IP Logged)
01 July, 2017 21:53
been singing ' oh maro itoge; in my head all day

watching the lions this summer take being a Sarries supporter to another level



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
SaintED (IP Logged)
02 July, 2017 09:01
Quote:
King Zak
Well, that's humble pie for my breakfast!

Only a small slice though (and for me too) as we did everything we could not to win that game for large portions of the match.

What on earth got Mako so riled up? Dropped a knee onto Retallick and a shoulder into Barrett on the clear out. I have never seen him so out of control.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
02 July, 2017 09:39
Quote:
King Zak
Quote:
The Bard
There's always a risk the ref will try and even things up after a red card, it certainly happened today. What a fight back in the last 20!
Was Maro man of the match?

Maro was exceptional but Sean O'Briwn was even better!

Vicious rumour that Sean o Brien has been cited!
I do remember tmo trying to get refs attention at one point & dont think he could hear him!



Double Champions of Europe,we know who we are!! smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2017 09:39 by Highbury Saracen.

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
flavman 35 (IP Logged)
02 July, 2017 10:15
I do admit that I slaughtered garland this week. Glad I was wrong but I do feel that everything ghats could have gone for him did.
SBW getting sent off took away my worries that Farnell and sexton wouldn't stop him off loading and taking our midfield apart.
Barretts bad day with the boot let nine points slide that would have won the game.
For me Sean O brien and Jonathan Davies have been my players off the series so far

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
ninjafez (IP Logged)
02 July, 2017 10:30
Quote:
Highbury Saracen
Quote:
King Zak
Quote:
The Bard
There's always a risk the ref will try and even things up after a red card, it certainly happened today. What a fight back in the last 20!
Was Maro man of the match?

Maro was exceptional but Sean O'Briwn was even better!

Vicious rumour that Sean o Brien has been cited!
I do remember tmo trying to get refs attention at one point & dont think he could hear him!

No rumor I'm afriad, he has been cited



Ninjafez - supporting Sarries and cleaning their signs since 2006!

 
Re: 'Sup - 2nd Test
SaintED (IP Logged)
02 July, 2017 12:05
Quote:
JO'G
been singing ' oh maro itoge; in my head all day
watching the lions this summer take being a Sarries supporter to another level

Just think in fifteen years time (when Maro Itoje CBE, MBE, etc) retires there will be parents taking their kids to White stripes gigs and when they start 7 Nations army their kids will be like "why are they playing the Oh Maro Itoje song"? smiling smiley

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