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Loz
Huxley (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 09:26
According to Fissler in the Rugby Paper today, Loz has turned down a contract extension and will look to leave when his contract ends. This is apparently due to Farrell signing a long term deal, limiting his future opportunities. Wasps want to re-sign him with cipriani out of contract soon.

Not sure I believe that considering that Loz has stated that he didn't think he'd get as much game time as he has had, and the fact he's got into the England squad already. Hopefully it's rubbish, as, bar his goal kicking, I thought he played a blinder yesterday.

 
Re: Loz
Pimpernel44 (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 10:07
I don't believe for a second that Loz joined Sarries in the expectation that Faz would leave, so I don't see how Faz signing a new contract (however long) could changes Loz' thinking at all.

 
Re: Loz
Jim 55 (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 10:36
The flip side is if he stays he is accepting the permanent understudy role, he's tasted success and gained international recognition the moment he arrived will he be content with that? I would think not. With Faz in place for years to come he will always be the bridesmaid (can I make such an analogy in this day and age) I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him move on.
Let's be really blunt he's done us proud and he would go with our best wishes, if he does go!
On other threads Malins is being touted as someone who might be quite 'special'.....
It's not a bad place to be in no matter what happens.

 
Re: Loz
Adey (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 11:10
Yep. If Malins is the real deal then it's impossible to fit 3 into 1. Especially when Faz is one of the first names on the team sheet and I imagine the next full time skipper.

The question then is how long Malins will stick around for?

 
Re: Loz
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 11:19
I Wouldn't read too much into TRP but at the same time I could understand Lozowski's logic if that is how he feels. As said above the club already has an exceptional understudy in Malins.

 
Re: Loz
Huxley (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 12:59
I think there are good arguments for him both staying and going. Hypothetically, if Loz were to leave at the end of the season would it be a lot of pressure on Malins to take the role for 10 games a season? Would Goodey be enough of a back up during the international window? I think we suffered when Charlie got injured against Sale a few years ago, with Nils not being the best back up.

I do think that Max is a potential star in the making, and I'm surprised he hasn't had the coverage that Marcus Smith has had. He only had to yawn yesterday to get Nick Mullins fawning over him!

 
Re: Loz
kakshaks (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 13:49
I think Loz will stay, him and Faz can also play 12 if needed, Loz can also play 15. Both of them can nurture Max into the team too.

 
Re: Loz
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 15:16
You need 3 players in the specialist position; F/H, S/H and hooker for example. Two required for each match day every time. Without a third you cannot rotate, have no injury cover etc etc. Can't see the problem myself. Owen and Loz will rotate (Owen will probably have a late start to the season again anyway - Loz played the first 6 games in a row last season IIRC) and Max M will play the AW games with prob Loz on the bench. Not to mention the time Owen is away with England when we will have only Loz and Max.

Far too much being made of this IMHO.

 
Re: Loz
Huxley (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 15:49
I'm not sure anyone is making anything of it, it's simply opinions on the report in the paper.

 
Re: Loz
The Bard (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 15:54
Some agent provocation perhaps? Not convinced Loz would be a starter at any of the other top clubs at present as his kicking is not good enough. But on the other hand his defence yesterday was top drawer.

 
Re: Loz
JO'G (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 16:34
I can see the logic of Loz moving on to a side where he is going to get a start each week. There are plenty of clubs in the premiership fitting that bill. To Wasps seems an odd choice where his problems will be almost identical to what they are now



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions

 
Re: Loz
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 16:49
Quote:
Huxley
I'm not sure anyone is making anything of it, it's simply opinions on the report in the paper.

It's not though is it. The discussion had moved on from there to the notion that 3 fly halves was too many. It's there in black and white...just read it. My response is specifically addressing that point.

 
Re: Loz
camerounfred (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 17:19
I can see the logic of wanting to go.

After all, the same thing caused us to lose Nils

 
Re: Loz
Adey (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 17:40
Quote:
GazzaFez
Quote:
Huxley
I'm not sure anyone is making anything of it, it's simply opinions on the report in the paper.

It's not though is it. The discussion had moved on from there to the notion that 3 fly halves was too many. It's there in black and white...just read it. My response is specifically addressing that point.

If Loz and Malins have serious international ambitions then those 3 into 1 at the same club is too many. Either of them could go off to another club and be first choice, getting regular game time and put their hands up for England honours. Hard to be the first choice 10 for your country when you're not first choice for your club.

 
Re: Loz
kakshaks (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 18:09
Tigers might be looking for a new fly half after today.

 
Re: Loz
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 18:33
Quote:
kakshaks
Tigers might be looking for a new fly half after today.

Priestland? (Sm100)

(how good must he be feeling right now?)

 
Re: Loz
vunipolae (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 18:43
I can understand why he would leave at the end of his contract but I thought he signed a 3 year deal so would still have 2 years left? I don't think his kicking is good enough to start for a top team unless they have a reliable kicker elsewhere in the team. I would like to see him trusted more off the bench this season where he was often an unused sub or only getting minimal minutes when the game was won last season in the big games

 
Re: Loz
Dolph42 (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 19:42
Fissler was the first to report Loz to Saracens some 2/3 months before it was official so it's likely he has some inside knowledge. However, that could just mean his agent is trying to get more money (like the Daly story in the DM). While he plays a good amount of games here he's never going to start an ECC or knock out game unless Faz is injured.

Having said that some on the Wasps board seem to think that he'd leave Saracens to rotate with Cips - pretty unlikely. If he were to consider Wasps it would be because he knows he's better than Cips (which he is). He would start at every other club except Saints (rumoured to sign Biggar for next season) and Tigers.

 
Re: Loz
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 20:09
Would he start over Steenson?

 
Re: Loz
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 00:10
Quote:
Adey
Hard to be the first choice 10 for your country when you're not first choice for your club.

Oh like it's hard to be first choice 12 for your country when you're not first choice for your club? Because that's never happened.

As it happens George Ford is still England's first choice 10, in EJ's eyes at least. So if there is any change there it's a racing certainty that will mean Faz is next in line. Any vacancy as starting 10 for England is some way off for Loz and even further away for Malins, much as I rate them both. They reasons for Loz moving to Sarries were valid and remain so. I doubt he would move in the short term but if he did I would be the first to wish him good fortune wherever he went.

 
Re: Loz
Adey (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 08:22
You try so hard to shoot me down on any point I make you've come around to agree with me on this one. If Faz can't get a game starting for England at 10, what chances do his club mates have playing second and third fiddle behind him?

As for being a long way off, I bow to your superior knowledge and insight into EJs mind. It's not as if Ford and Faz burst into the scene as precarious young talents is it? If either moved and had regular first team game time the England coaches would surely take notice.

And why wouldn't you wish any player who moved on your best? You're not going to be booing Ashton when we inevitably draw Toulon in the latter stages of the Champions cup are you? Just because he moved on for a better pension.

 
Re: Loz
TimH (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 08:39
This is spot on...

Quote:
Pimpernel44
I don't believe for a second that Loz joined Sarries in the expectation that Faz would leave, so I don't see how Faz signing a new contract (however long) could changes Loz' thinking at all.

Why leave to merely rotate with another fly-half? i.e at Wasps.

 
Re: Loz
Raggs (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 09:06
Quote:
TimH
This is spot on...
Quote:
Pimpernel44
I don't believe for a second that Loz joined Sarries in the expectation that Faz would leave, so I don't see how Faz signing a new contract (however long) could changes Loz' thinking at all.

Why leave to merely rotate with another fly-half? i.e at Wasps.

He's a developing and growing player. It's unlikely he expected Farrell to leave, but Loz equally may not have planned to spend the rest of his career with Sarries (unless Farrell left), if Farrell had signed 2 more seasons, maybe Loz would think he could stay, keep playing a bit, and see how it goes, that is no longer an option, and it would be clear he'd be second choice for the next 5 years.

Cips would start in front of Loz at 10, but equally Loz may want to look at the 12 shirt (especially if Eddie sees him there), and could perhaps take over from Gopperth (34) as 10/12 for Wasps. Who knows how long Cips plans on staying too, I have a suspicion he may stick it out in England until 2019 at least, he's not really a French style 10, and there's good money in the AP these days, injuries could happen too.

 
Re: Loz
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 11:36
Quote:
Adey
You try so hard to shoot me down on any point I make you've come around to agree with me on this one. If Faz can't get a game starting for England at 10, what chances do his club mates have playing second and third fiddle behind him?

It's not hard at all Adey, not that it is my intention in the first place and I don't agree in the least. We will however just have to agree to disagree then.....Loz and Malins will have the last word on this but I can't see either of them going anywhere soon.

 
Re: Loz
JO'G (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 12:16
Malins would be more likely to stay if Loz is off. However Sarries do have a policy of letting players go early if they want to be off. Helps with potential cap overspend



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions

 
Re: Loz
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 13:52
It would be an odd one from Loz. He's probably going to start more games than not for us over the next few years what with Owen's England commitments etc. Granted he will be second choice in Europe and knock out games, but he's one injury from starting in a European Cup final.

 
Re: Loz
JO'G (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 14:34
Quote:
#wolfpack
It would be an odd one from Loz. He's probably going to start more games than not for us over the next few years what with Owen's England commitments etc. Granted he will be second choice in Europe and knock out games, but he's one injury from starting in a European Cup final.

and probably on the bench for a European Cup final



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions

 
Re: Loz
Poking With Sticks (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 16:24
Quote:
OldMarovian
Would he start over Steenson?

Would he start over Steenson and Slade? Slade's not necessarily fulfilling his potential at the moment but Baxter's keeping faith with him. If it was just Steenson then it might make sense for Loz to move since Steenson might well retire before too long - he's 33.

 
Re: Loz
saracens4life (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 17:05
Surely the issue is 12 as much as 10.

Brad is 31 and plays such an attritional style of game (and has done consistently for a number of years). I'd have thought one more season after this one as a regular starter.

Then the question is, do we replace like-for-like, or do we move to the 2nd playmaker approach - which Loz would be prime for, and which would definitely set him up well with England.

Imagine in 2-3 years time, a set of midfield options of: Farrell, Malins, Lozowski, Tompkins, Griffiths, Taylor. Pretty handy.

Loz has a lovely blend of flair and tenacity, and he's still improving all the time. Not irreplaceable of course, but it'd be a real shame to see him leave.

 
Re: Loz
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 17:11
Poking With Sticks I think Slade has massive potential but it rarely been realised. Like Lozowski though he is possibly caught between playing at fly-half and as a second play-maker in the centres.

saracens4life that's an interesting point. Barritt is a rock for us but it will also be interesting to see what different players can offer at 12. Specifically for me, Tompkins.

 
Re: Loz
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 17:33
Brad is completely indispensable in my book. He's getting better each season as well I think.

 
Re: Loz
Poking With Sticks (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 17:59
Quote:
OldMarovian
Poking With Sticks I think Slade has massive potential but it rarely been realised. Like Lozowski though he is possibly caught between playing at fly-half and as a second play-maker in the centres.

Personally I think Slade's failure to reach expectations is overstated. If it wasn't that people have quite such high expectations for him he'd be regarded as a fine 10.

 
Re: Loz
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 19:50
Haven't got an issue with Slade he's young still and looks good most of the time, same for Loz, Loz was 3rd choice at wasps and would be if he goes back.... Hed be clearly first choice at London Irish, Harlequins, Worcester and Sale, Possibly even at tigers... Any1 else he's second choice in my opinion, with Faz away with England Loz is not behind him in any sense, however if he wants to go then let him go and we will bring through Mallins. On the flip let Loz stay and develop his game

 
Re: Loz
David@Sarries (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 20:32
I agree with Saracens4Life, we have to consider what our plans are for 12 as well. Playing Loz or Faz there impacts Goode at 15 too and that changes the whole dynamic of the team.

I'm in favour of keeping Loz but he has to want to stay. Let's face it the coaches will play Faz at 12 if Laz plays well enough...

 
Re: Loz
JO'G (IP Logged)
05 September, 2017 09:27
I heard that Loz left Coventry to come to London - so leaving Sarries looks more Quins than Waspies. Irish would probably be a good option there as well



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions


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