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IN SEARCH OF A MIRACLE!

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Saracens v Quins
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 15:25
Feel we are fortunate to be 5-10 up at HT.
Apart from the first ten minutes we just don't seem to be clicking. Can't help but feel Wiggy is kicking away too much of the little possession we have had.
Quins definitely up for it as usual.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 15:30
We just can’t get and keep the ball.
It’s looking horribly similar to last week.

We can’t defend for 70 mins a game. Let’s get the ball and make them do some tackling.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
CB1959 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 15:39
Penalty count increasing. Handling errors increasing. Same story as last 4 weeks

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
paulglynn (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 15:45
Can we please get spencer on wigge is to quick to kick

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 15:46
How did Maro get his 'facial injury'?

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Jim 55 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:24
Bummer......

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
cwrich (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:26
well done Quins .. however on what planet was that a high tackle by Skelton ... shocker of a decision with 3 to go . Ref bottled it

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Westrock (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:26
Skelton high tackle for grabbing the back of the shirt gives Quins a penalty!!!! You couldn't make it up

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
BathPatriot (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:26
You were unlucky, that last penalty was nonsense, but the amount of ball Quins had was unreal. Brutal game for both teams, good to watch for the neutral.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Rolls (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:27
I give up, leading this time up to the 79th minute. Fingers need to be pulled out, plans need to be changed. Can’t blame Quins, 3 tries to 1, Care excellent, we used to be the never give up side, now if we lead we lose! Third loss straight at the Stoop, oh, and it’s Clermont next week. Wake up and wake up fast!

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
AB (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:28
little cheater Danny Care complaining to ref about Skelton pulling shirt of Lang!

what a soft penalty and tet another last minute loss!

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
lechef (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:28
We did not play like Champions of Europe more like a 2nd rate team. Too many penalties again.
We need to get our act together fast if we are to beat Clermont over the next 2 weeks. The way we are playing at the moment it is going to be an uphill struggle.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
vunipolae (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:29
Poor again, can't say quins didnt deserve the win. We seem to have no fluidity and have lost the edge we had in previous seasons at the set piece.

One thing that completely bemused me way the Reffing if the ruck for both sides. If the rules were properly applied today then I have no idea what the rules are. At almost every ruck there would be a player from the attacking side flying in off their feet to clear out. Both teams clearly had hands on the ball many many times with the attacking player holding on with. Every time the referee told the player to take his hands off despite being first in and on his feet. There were a few examples of the ball leaving the ruck then being put back in and players being done for offside. Also several in from the side and neck roll clear outs from both sides that went unpunished. It seemed to me that if there was a ruck then the attacking team could do whatever they wanted and they'd get away with it. This happened for both sides and effectively removed any form of contest at the ruck.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:30
The last penalty against Skelton was an absolute travesty. He clearly had hold of the number 10 in the middle of the back of his shirt. Not in a million years a high tackle.

BTW first time we have lost 5 games in a row for 10 years!

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
samgibbo (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:33
Not enough bite at the breakdown and Quins wanted it more. Ref wasn’t good but had we played with more energy then we wouldn’t need to worry about him.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
F-F-F-FEZ (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:34
Aaaaaarrrggh

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Coughie (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:36
Clermont next week always was a must-win, but now the fixture takes on vast importance - Backlash against the French side please - Cricket score run up against them essential!



~ You never knowingly let the facts get in the way of the story. ~

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
manrow (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:38
Just accept it Quins deserved to win on the day.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Kevetty (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:38
Absolute shocker from the TMO to give a penalty for the Skelton ‘high tackle’! Having said that it felt like we haven’t played together for ages

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:38
Once again, we get a lead and then let it slip right at the end. Bath, Gloucester, Exeter, Quins - if you're still in it with 5 to go, you have a proper chance against us it seems.

We cannot win if we are determined to give away 10+ penalties a game (even if the one from Spencer and the one from Big Will which directly let to their tries were softer than soft). We cannot win if we are determined to just defend for 60+ minutes.

It was pretty much EXACTLY the same as last week.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
london pride (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:45
So including the Anglo Welsh we've now lost the last five games.We've lost the last 3 league games.In all of those games we've gone in leading at half time.Something in previous seasons that never happened, once we got in front, we stayed in front.
Somethings not right and I'm fearfull for the next two European games,

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
#wolfpack (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 16:47
Played 10, lost 4 - and we haven't yet had the 6N where we traditionally get about 5 points across the entire block.

So far by my count we've had 2 incredible performances against Northampton and one very good half against Wasps at home, and that's about it in terms of playing well this season.


I'm feeling a bit uneasy this season...

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 17:02
Absolutely brainless yet again. We make mistakes with ball in hand but will improve there and actually looked dangerous when we kept it but the endless kicking the ball back to open field and feeding attacking team; Exeter last week, Quins this week defies belief in terms of stupidity. A 5 point? lead with three minutes to go and we kick to open field. Get it off the field and you can take a minute out of the clock in their half before the ball is in play.

Worth noting there were some very good performances in the team especially from our front row but we have looked tactically naive in the past couple of games. The restart kick at the end almost unforgivable unless Farrell scuffed it.

We have a really good team and coaches but we've stuttered all season and no one seems to have the answers beyond revisiting 2015's gameplan. Really hoping for a major step up against Clermont as we'll need it.

Well played to Quins too. A couple of moments of class from Care the difference.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 17:22
Another lesson to learn......
Both last week and this week we lost by less than a penalty. Last week we spurned several kicks at goal in favour of the corner. Today we had one particular penalty halfway through the first half when we were 0-10 up and it was literally in front of the posts. We kicked for the corner and predictably got nothing.
This is not benefit of hindsight at all. In a league this tight we need to take the points when on offer and as a result two more wins were there for the taking.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
camerounfred (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 17:25
ah well, if it carries on this way we'll at least save some money this year by having no semi finals or finals to go to.

think I'll book an early holiday(Sm100)

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 17:31
Well simple if we don't improve within a week an play like this for the next two weeks we are out of Europe, Quins got under our skins (again) credit to them for having more bite and aggression and yes it was a soft penalty at the end but we shouldn't even be in that position after a fast start, early on when we had a 10 - 0 lead we went for broke going for the corner, and messed up then gave 4 penalties in a row, should have taken the three points, aside from that we have not been our clinical selves recently, that's basically our strongest available team, and the harsh reality is we were not good enough today, ok lads let's re group and somehow get a win next week against Clermont...

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 17:46
Quote:
samgibbo
Not enough bite at the breakdown and Quins wanted it more. Ref wasn’t good but had we played with more energy then we wouldn’t need to worry about him.

Don't agree about the breakdown. We competed hard especially Clark but the ref took us out of the game just as he did on defensive lineout.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 18:02
Congratulations to Exeter and Quins, but that's two braindead performances in a row.

Last week spent the the final 20 mins giving possession back to Chiefs, and they are the last team in the league that you should do that to.

This week we gave away at least 4-5 stupid, needless penalties allowing Quins to relieve pressure or kick to the corner. I don't remember them giving away one 'stupid' penalty.

No need to panic, but we are now in a dogfight to get 2nd place and home semi final. Exeter will not be caught.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
samgibbo (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 18:06
Quote:
OldMarovian
Quote:
samgibbo
Not enough bite at the breakdown and Quins wanted it more. Ref wasn’t good but had we played with more energy then we wouldn’t need to worry about him.

Don't agree about the breakdown. We competed hard especially Clark but the ref took us out of the game just as he did on defensive lineout.

Rewatch it and compare Quins’ aggression in the counter ruck to ours. On the whole, we stood there and allowed Care to comfortably clear the line, whereas Wiggy was under constant pressure that resulted in a number of turnovers/mistakes. Small margins but Quins deserved it far more than we did. the players need to quickly learn that it’s not their god given right to win, like they have got used to in previous seasons.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
PeterboroughQuin (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 18:19
Unlucky Sarries. Didn't look like a pen at the end but we'll take it.

You are still 3rd and European Rugby Champions Cup holders.

Look forward to you thrashing us at the Olympic Stadium.

Merry Christmas to you all

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 19:22
And to you too PeterboroughQuins and good luck in Quins European fixtures.

I really respect and admire McCall as a coach but the following:

“We’ve been in winning positions the last three weeks and had a lot of experienced players on the field today; we’ve got to learn lessons from it, this one was different from the other two because we really were the masters of our own downfall today”

concerns me. If he really believes that then he's been watching different games to me. In all three games a naive and out-dated gameplan has lead to an opposition win.

It hasn't been about the second half or even last five or one it's been about a game's worth of gifting the opposition attacking ball and seeming to think that being tackle-sponges is going to win the game.

I had to leave before the end of the Womens game but when I left Sarries Women were leading having been down to 14 when Cleall was sin-binned. They didn't hoof the ball aimlessly to Quins ladies to run back at them but tried to keep it in hand or kick it off the field.

Hope they did win. Oh and well done to the youngsters for their win over Bristol.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Westrock (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 19:32
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
How did Maro get his 'facial injury'?
. MIke Browns shoulder I think

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
The Bard (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 20:57
Our defence in general was fine. We were simply undone by 3 kicks, which you have to say were perfectly executed. Glos scored a similarl one against us, we need to come up with a response.
Out of the 400 minutes of the last 5 games, we have probably led for 370....

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
kakshaks (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 21:14
Agree, nothing to worry about. We will be fine. Quins deserve the win today.
As for Pearce, never been a fan. Has no idea what is happening at the ruck as players fly in and off their feet all over the place. He is a choker and has history with us. Same thing at Bath, reviewed a decision based on the crowd booing and at Glaws when a decision was replayed umpteen times on the big screen before he then decided to look. Skelton penalty gave them the opportunity to win but so not a penalty. Might explain why he has spent the end of last season and the beginning of this reffing the Championship.
Anyway, well played Quins. Bring on Clermont.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
bargepole (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 07:19
Watching this game as a neutral, it seemed to me that Sarries' returning England contingent - Vunipola, George, Itoje and Farrell - all had fairly mediocre games, whereas Marler, Robshaw, Care and Brown all brought their England form and really stepped up.

I have no idea why that was, but ultimately it was the difference between the teams.

Anyway, putting AP rivalries aside for the next two weekends, good luck to all Premiership teams facing French opposition - let's show them that the pace and intensity of the AP is something they're not used to in the turgid Top 14.



Wasps supporter and ex-player since 1964

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
JO'G (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 08:52
Very frustrating game, which Quins on balance deserved to win

1) We should have taken the points at 0-10. Losing the lineout and the four successive penalties was the turning point of the game as for the next 50 minutes Pearce's only contribution was to remind Sarries forwards the warning was still in play

2) Spencer isn't smart enough. Apart from giving away the sucker penalty, he didn't react to it. One of Wiggy's strengths is that when a penalty is given he sprints back 10, turns and faces. Had spencer done that instead of moaning about the offence. Care doesn't make the inroads and Alex can stay back to deal with the kick-through

3) Pearce was very poor all round.



Park team from London
Just a park team from London
European Champions
Just European champions

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 09:36
Quote:
Westrock
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
How did Maro get his 'facial injury'?
. MIke Browns shoulder I think

According to MMc in the post match interview Maro has had to go to hospital to check if there is structural damage, with an update to come in 24 hours.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
RDB. (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 09:44
Our attacking play has become far too predictable and we're being found out time after time. I think we really miss Ashton's approach of coming infield looking for the ball. OK he was occasionally caught out defensively as a result, but it did at least keep defences guessing.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 10:01
JO'G we all thought Wiggy was far too pedantic around the base of the scrum whether it was s ruck or set piece thus putting himself under pressure and getting scragged on more than one occasion. It has to be said that the constant box kicking was often inappropriate (last week as well) and simply resulted in giving away possession, of which we had very little. It looked very much like we had returned to the game plan of old, except we didn't execute it well...... No Ashy?
He did however deliver some fine exit kicks to touch from within our 22.
Spenno has many fine attributes as well; he's much faster, threatens the try line and of course saves our bacon with pressure kicks when others can't deliver.
However for me the biggest issue yesterday was that failure to get the back line running enough and to me that was down to the game plan.

We still have missing....
Billy V
Britsy
Mike Rhodes
Duncan Taylor
Liam Williams
....so hopefully they'll all be back in the New Year. However Clermont home and away followed by Tigers away all before Xmas is going to be a very big ask on current form.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Fanski (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 11:26
As a neutral who was at the game -

All refs make mistakes - he also made a mistakes when at the start of the 2nd half a Sarries player ran into one of his own 2 yards from the ref and did not give obstruction or accidental offside, he also missed a Sarries knock on right in front of me

Sadly the carping about the ref is more wendyball and does your fans no credit

Quins were just the better side - get over it - and take the rough with the smooth

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Navyquin (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 12:29
Quote:
AB
little cheater Danny Care complaining to ref about Skelton pulling shirt of Lang!
what a soft penalty and tet another last minute loss!


Bad form, no need to sound like a spoilt child. I remember both teams complaining to the referee however it was a bad call no doubting that.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
wolfgangvonb77 (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 12:34
we have to take into account the vast amount of rugby our players have been playing of late and Quins looked up for it yesterday. Maybe some of our mistakes are due to fatigue or maybe we are lacking a bit of confidence but our guys will come through. Maybe we go under the radar this year and then up in a final and win it. But the other teams in the league are getting stronger and it's more competitive. I see no reason why we won't be up there every great team hits a bad patch from time to time it's how we respond as fans that counts by supporting our team and players.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2017 12:36 by wolfgangvonb77.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
nedrichards (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 12:37
Fanski, oh, we're taking it! I'm almost perversely excited about this return to the 'good old days'. I thought the ref did a decent job, although I think we'll see a whole new world of breakdown interpretations in the Champions Cup next week (in the same way that the recent Internationals were more competitive there) it just seems to be the way that premiership refs are encouraged to referee. At least they're consistent!

My annoyance comes from the role of the TMO, I accept the presence of a TV ref in the game in order to 'get things right' - but that has to be the baseline, not a stretch goal. All of the benefit of the doubt that goes to the referee evaporates for the TMO. That penalty decision at the end was just flat out wrong. Entirely likely that Quins could have worked another try scoring opportunity in the remaining minutes - Sarries were clearly exhausted and they were deserving winners but we still haven't got the balance of the TMO and the entire officiating team working together right as a sport.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 16:16
We played too poorly for the referee to be used as a legitimate excuse IMO. Quins also missed a few kicks that made the game look closer than it was.

Ultimately we have to work on the elements of the game we can control. Looking at why we're giving away so many soft penalties and kicking possession away to counter-attacking sides would be a good start.

In an odd way, neither Exeter or this result (given our track-record recently at the Stoop) should be huge upsets. I think the concerning thing is the performances feel like a continuation of a season-long trend, the games against Northampton aside, of us under-performing.

There's been a fair bit of disruption though in the squad so I hope we can now settle down to playing a bit more like I remember from last season. I can't wait for the Clermont game and look forward to cheering Sarries to victory.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
ChipsteadQuin (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 16:41
Unlucky there Sarries , not sure we wanted it more , but we certainly needed it more .

Most noise Ive heard from visiting fans for a while which is a credit and those I spoke to after the game were rugby folk that took it on the chin and had a beer .

What irritates me is the desperate attempts that the media ( BT Sport in particular) are making to try and turn this fixture into a 'grudge match' every time .

Im probably like most who want to see the likes of Farrell ,George , Kruis , Itoje et al perform close up , so look forward to a Saracens visit ( hence the sellout !)

Hope Itoje is OK

Good luck with all bar one of your games for the rest this season .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2017 16:43 by ChipsteadQuin.

 
Re: Saracens v Quins
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 16:57
Thanks Chipstead, good to hear our travelling fans were gracious in defeat, like we all should be, Pearce wasn't bad, he explained all his decisions clearly and is lenient at the break down, it's consistent and Barring that last minute TMO intervention it was great and refreshing to see a ref back their own decisions, there was 2 occasions where I personally thought Quins scored and both times Pearce said held up,many other refs would have used the TMO for 'peace of mind' so you know credit where it's due,how many times do people moan the Referees do not back their own decisions etc...


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