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Champions Cup - No English Winners
Discussion started by VR1997 , 10 December, 2017 19:00
Champions Cup - No English Winners
VR1997 10 December, 2017 19:00
Wasps, Quins, Northampton, Exeter, Bath and Leicester all lose this weekend.

At the halfway stage in the Pools it doesn't look as though we are going to have much representation in the latter stages of the Champions Cup.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/2017 19:21 by VR1997.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
AP 10 December, 2017 19:51
Half of those were away games which you don't necessarily expect to win, but, yes, not many bonus points and not good!



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Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Garym 11 December, 2017 11:05
Quote:
AP
Half of those were away games which you don't necessarily expect to win, but, yes, not many bonus points and not good!

In my day at school the maths would have said 2/3 at home (Saints, Bath, Quins, Exeter) 1/3 away (tigers, Wasps). So you would have expected some home wins

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
PotNoodleHorn 11 December, 2017 11:18
You only need one English team represented

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Innings 11 December, 2017 11:46
I could have sworn that there was a shot of the Toulon stadium, overlooking the brilliant blue Med. Perhaps I got confused and it was the Rec, overlooking the sunny Avon. That would make three home, three away which in my rigorous elementary maths would make Ap's maths a little less suspect than Garym's.



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Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
F-F-F-FEZ 11 December, 2017 14:02
Wonderful Brexit humour woven into rugby report by Rob Kitson in the Grauniad;

There has certainly been a distinct trend in the latest oval-ball round of Anglo-Irish exchanges; English clubs have all encountered a distinctly hard border in terms of free movement over their opponents’ try-lines.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Garym 11 December, 2017 19:34
My mistake, I thought bath were at home

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Yorkie 11 December, 2017 19:45
Quote:
VR1997
Wasps, Quins, Northampton, Exeter, Bath and Leicester all lose this weekend.
At the halfway stage in the Pools it doesn't look as though we are going to have much representation in the latter stages of the Champions Cup.

There's a team missing from that list!

(Sm159)



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Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
tpr's headmistress 11 December, 2017 20:04
There's a team missing from that list!

That's because he doesn't have a crystal ball. As a Tigs supporter you of all people must know that you can't be top dogs for ever.(Sm108)

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Yorkie 11 December, 2017 20:14
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
There's a team missing from that list!
That's because he doesn't have a crystal ball. As a Tigs supporter you of all people must know that you can't be top dogs for ever.(Sm108)

Sorry. Couldn't resist! Although it read as though the poster expected you guys to win?

And fair point well made. Seems a very long while ago now since Tigers were anywhere near "top dogs"!



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Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
tpr's headmistress 11 December, 2017 20:30
What goes around comes around. No doubt it will happen for Tigers again - remember this then, especially if we're wallowing.(Sm151)

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Westrock 11 December, 2017 20:39
Increase the salary cap to that of the French teams and then we might be able to build bigger and better squads to compete.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Yorkie 11 December, 2017 21:05
Quote:
Westrock
Increase the salary cap to that of the French teams and then we might be able to build bigger and better squads to compete.


But only Bath and Sarries would be able to pay up to said raised cap.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
SimonG19 12 December, 2017 11:55
Quote:
Westrock
Increase the salary cap to that of the French teams and then we might be able to build bigger and better squads to compete.

Oh the utter irony!

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
maynas 12 December, 2017 17:48
Bristol could pay any thing it seems

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Seany_Boy0511 14 December, 2017 10:45
Raising the salary cap would not work, money doesn't buy success (no matter what anyone thinks) Saracens team that dominated over the last couple of seasons have mainly been academy lads with the retiring experienced players coming for the odd season, also we unearthed Gems in Duncan Taylor, Chris Wyles, Schalk Brits, and to a degree Alex Lozowski.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
ukms 14 December, 2017 14:27
Quote:
Seany_Boy0511
Raising the salary cap would not work, money doesn't buy success (no matter what anyone thinks) Saracens team that dominated over the last couple of seasons have mainly been academy lads with the retiring experienced players coming for the odd season, also we unearthed Gems in Duncan Taylor, Chris Wyles, Schalk Brits, and to a degree Alex Lozowski.

Out of interest where exactly did you unearth the gem of Brits from ? He was a capped international wasn’t he ? Likewise where did you unearth Loz ? Wasps ! .... maybe you have a different interpretation of unearthing a gem ...... to me it’s plucking someone out of complete obscurity, which doesn’t really apply to either .... next you’ll be claiming Billy V winking smiley

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
Roger G 14 December, 2017 15:43
Hi ukms, I think you have a point with regard to Lozowski. Brits, however, although a capped international had, as far as I'm aware, little or no chance of adding to his caps due to the preference of the then SA coach for a different type of hooker (Jon Smit, Bismarck du Plessis), and when he came to Sarries few in the UK had heard of him. Another Du Plessis, although no longer with us, might also be classed as an unearthed gem, along with Richard Barrington. Yes, we've signed some big names, but no more than some other clubs, and the squad is primarily built around academy graduates

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
ukms 14 December, 2017 16:57
Quote:
Roger G
Hi ukms, I think you have a point with regard to Lozowski. Brits, however, although a capped international had, as far as I'm aware, little or no chance of adding to his caps due to the preference of the then SA coach for a different type of hooker (Jon Smit, Bismarck du Plessis), and when he came to Sarries few in the UK had heard of him. Another Du Plessis, although no longer with us, might also be classed as an unearthed gem, along with Richard Barrington. Yes, we've signed some big names, but no more than some other clubs, and the squad is primarily built around academy graduates

It was a bit tongue in cheek smiling smiley you’re correct there have been others .... Brits for me has always been someone I’ve admired ... both as a player to watch and the few occasions I’ve seen him chat off the field.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
OldMarovian 14 December, 2017 17:43
Roger G, spot on. Also think you could claim that whatever potential Lozo might have had at Wasps it wasn't being realised as he sat behind Cipriani and Gopperth barely getting bench spots let alone starts. Skip forward a season and he is starting or at worst benching almost continuously whilst having been called up by England. I'd be very interested to hear where or when Wasps supporters think his break at Wasps was going to come? When Cipriani was injured maybe? little sign of it before then.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
ukms 14 December, 2017 20:27
Quote:
OldMarovian
Roger G, spot on. Also think you could claim that whatever potential Lozo might have had at Wasps it wasn't being realised as he sat behind Cipriani and Gopperth barely getting bench spots let alone starts. Skip forward a season and he is starting or at worst benching almost continuously whilst having been called up by England. I'd be very interested to hear where or when Wasps supporters think his break at Wasps was going to come? When Cipriani was injured maybe? little sign of it before then.

Difficult to know when his break was going to come and it was well discussed on our board ...... what none of us really know is when he declared his desire to move which could have had a bearing, various reasons/timings have been rumoured but who knows. I think he would have naturally got a break and the rest would be history, as quite a few Wasps players have been thrown in at the deep end before and then shone , perhaps ahead of when many would have given them a start - Daly, Wade, Launchbury all in that boat.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
OldMarovian 14 December, 2017 21:02
Fair point ukms but if I understand you right that's a bit my point. He was waiting around for an injury to promote him to a starting or bench spot and give him the chance, without that would he have got one?

Funnily as soon as he joined us he benefitted from just that straight away as Farrell was out at the beginning of the season so Lozo went straight from "bright young thing" to starting fly-half.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
ukms 15 December, 2017 03:56
Quote:
OldMarovian
Fair point ukms but if I understand you right that's a bit my point. He was waiting around for an injury to promote him to a starting or bench spot and give him the chance, without that would he have got one?
Funnily as soon as he joined us he benefitted from just that straight away as Farrell was out at the beginning of the season so Lozo went straight from "bright young thing" to starting fly-half.

My view (others disagree) is that he would have been given a shot and regularly featured but once he declared he wanted to leave Dai Young would then not have sidelined someone else. If leaving was related to him wanting to stay in London then he may have declared that fairly early.

Re: Champions Cup - No English Winners
JO'G 15 December, 2017 12:28
It was interesting watching the Sarries / Quins game and the Exeter / Leinster game comparing the interpretation of the ruck

1. Pearce calls out repeatedly to take your hands off the ball almost immediately after the tackle / formation of the ruck

2. Leinster carry on tugging out the ball until they either get it or the French ref penalised the player holding on. I notice that Exeter also didn't try for turnovers


Are the English referees interpretations stopping Premiership teams competing and worse still will England suffer for his in the 6 nations


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