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Skelton
maynas (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:33
Is it just me and iím missing something or is he useless? What I see is that every time he gets the ball he goes to ground making zero yards. He seem to have no leg drive, no thrust into contact, not sure why we have him, I thought he added zero today compared with players like Maro, Isekwe, Cruise and Rhodes. Is it players like this that are dragging us down in terms of performance, defence etc? God knows we arenít playing well despite ending the losing sequence and though Iím going to the Ricoh next week I dread seeing a thrashing
from Wasps if they play like they have recently

 
Re: Skelton
CT (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 01:05
Certainly wasn't useless in the build up for the 5th try. Lucky Wiggy was passing to him as even he was reaching for it. Agree he doesn't make many yards but he's always going to be double teamed which should create space if we get quick ball.

 
Re: Skelton
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 08:49
Agree with CT. Far from useless but certainly a work in progress. We also have to get better at playing to his strengths. When he takes contact he is almost always able (and often looking) to get the ball away but the support is rarely there or it is more concerned with securing the ball on the floor than keeping it live. He also commits a lot of defence close to the line. Again we should be using that to find gaps further out. In a good game he is also carrying in double digits and the more carrying options we have the better IMO.

 
Re: Skelton
McSaracens (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 08:51
I personally thought he was one of the better players yesterday and out in a very good performance. His carrying is improving and he always brings at least 2 opposition defenders in with him, generating quick ball. IMO once Kruis, Isiekwe and Itoje are available there would be a very good opportunity to use him as a 20 minute impact man against tiring defences.



ďI believe it might have been said before, but there is something special happening at Saracens, and I want to be part of it.Ē - Nils Mordt

 
Re: Skelton
duchessmalfi (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:01
Far from useless, good into contact and making no yards as long as it's not negative isn't necessarily a bad thing with quick ball. Also, he's often got his arms free into contact which can lead to some handy offloads...he's reined that in recently after overusing and often knocking on but hopefully will reintroduce in a slightly more thought out manner in the new year. Also, he stuck in a couple of massive hits yesterday putting us on the front foot in defence.

 
Re: Skelton
derbyshire fan (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:08
I thought he had a rather better game for us yesterday ; and agree that he gives us good options

 
Re: Skelton
Eric Browett (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:26
Body angle into contact when carrying ball. Enough said.

 
Re: Skelton
RustySword (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:28
If Mark McCall (in whom we trust) rates him then that's good enough for me.

 
Re: Skelton
The Bard (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:46
We have yet to see how the selection process goes with everyone fit.
Can't see him starting with Itoje, Kruis, Rhodes and Isiekwe available.

 
Re: Skelton
Seany_Boy0511 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:48
He is the type of player that could make wasps defence make mistakes therefore creating gaps for the likes of Goode and co to run through to score some tries, give the guy a break, and no player who is a professional rugby player is useless! They work hard and are extremely talented. Also unlike bath I don't think we will allow wasps so much time and space, we will be faster and hopefully more accurate with our line speed and will probably commit and compete more at the breakdown

 
Re: Skelton
nedrichards (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:56
Opta has him making 25 meters yesterday with 3 defenders beaten and one penalty conceded. That's good for 5.5 fantasy points which is pretty decent for a lock!

 
Re: Skelton
saracen1971 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 10:21
It's you..

 
Re: Skelton
McSaracens (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 10:48
Could there potentially be room for all 5 with Itoje, Kruis and Rhodes starting, Skelton covering second row and Isiekwe covering 6?



ďI believe it might have been said before, but there is something special happening at Saracens, and I want to be part of it.Ē - Nils Mordt

 
Re: Skelton
samgibbo (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:08
IMO Willís improving week in week out and needs game time to learn our systems fully. He already seems fitter and with continued hard work from the coaches, we should look to build more of a game plan around his strengths. Iím not convinced heís a player you only use for 20 mins - Irrespective of him being an Australian international, he strikes me as someone who needs to be fully engrossed in a team to retain his focus and motivation.

 
Re: Skelton
StevenRobertson (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:38
You are missing something and it is you.

Heís a professional rugby player, capped by Australia, playing for his second spell in the double champions of Europe, in the top two leagues on the planet. How can he be useless?

I just hope Skelton has too much intelligence to read posts like yours, unless your intention was indeed to undermine his confidence completely?

 
Re: Skelton
GazzaFez (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 11:41
I posted on the Sup for Wuss thread after the match he'd had a good game. After watching the extended match highlights on BT Sport's last night that view was definitely reinforced. He's improving week on week and getting back to the form he showed for us last year. What is really noticeable is the way it often takes 2 or 3 players to bring him down and as mentioned above that creates gaps.

 
Re: Skelton
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 12:19
Quote:
McSaracens
Could there potentially be room for all 5 with Itoje, Kruis and Rhodes starting, Skelton covering second row and Isiekwe covering 6?

Now there's a thought. I'm of a mind that we have altogether too many backs in our team. Mako at 10 (distribution and goal-kicking) Billy at 12 on the crash ball and we could have something!

 
Re: Skelton
McSaracens (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 12:22
& Rhodes galloping down the wing!!!



ďI believe it might have been said before, but there is something special happening at Saracens, and I want to be part of it.Ē - Nils Mordt

 
Re: Skelton
MGB (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 13:16
It is disappointing that words such as useless are used by armchair experts about a professional player who tries his best. I don't think Ben Spencer would have scored his try without the line that Will Skelton ran which pulled the defenders towards him, creating the gap for Ben to run in to. Every time Skelton carries he attracts two or three defenders, but still generates quick ball for us to utilise the space that his carry has created.

 
Re: Skelton
David@Sarries (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 13:20
Itís definitely you; just watched the highlights and Skelton was involved multiple times in the build up to the first two tries. He seemed to both make ground and attract multiple defenders.

As said above, one of his better games.

 
Re: Skelton
maynas (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 18:55
OK maybe it is me but I didnít rate him last year and was surprised we took him on again. Personal opinion.
I also thought our defence yesterday was still having Xmas lunch and if it doesnít turn up next week we will ship more than 4 tries with Wasps back line!

 
Re: Skelton
VR1997 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 19:36
Maynas
Don't think Dai Young is to pleased with the amount of tries Wasps are conceding.

Be pleased that we are back to winning ways and are getting our injured players back on the
pitch.

Go Sarries



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2018 08:56 by VR1997.

 
Re: Skelton
Adey (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 23:32
I donít rate him. Heís a recently capped international for one of the best teams in the world. He shouldnít need time to Ďget up to speedí.

Granted, it will take him a couple of weeks to learn the plays and patterns but a couple of months to get match fit is a joke. He came with a big reputation, heís not delivered.

 
Re: Skelton
AB (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 09:36
Quote:
Adey
I donít rate him. Heís a recently capped international for one of the best teams in the world. He shouldnít need time to Ďget up to speedí.
Granted, it will take him a couple of weeks to learn the plays and patterns but a couple of months to get match fit is a joke. He came with a big reputation, heís not delivered.

Since when are you the judge and jury? Who cares whether you rate him or not? I would rather go with our coaches than rely on you!

 
Re: Skelton
Adey (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 10:10
Quote:
AB
Quote:
Adey
I donít rate him. Heís a recently capped international for one of the best teams in the world. He shouldnít need time to Ďget up to speedí.
Granted, it will take him a couple of weeks to learn the plays and patterns but a couple of months to get match fit is a joke. He came with a big reputation, heís not delivered.

Since when are you the judge and jury? Who cares whether you rate him or not? I would rather go with our coaches than rely on you!

Feeling brave this morning AB or had a tough night last night?!

Since when is anyone else judge and jury? My opinion not as valid as any others who think itís acceptable that an professional rugby player isnít fit enough to play rugby?

Mike Rhodes wasnít a name when we signed him, Iíd rather have another 2 or 3 of him than a single player who comes with Skeltonís reputation.

 
Re: Skelton
Roger G (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 10:59
Happy New Year all. I'd hoped we might at least make it through the first day of 2018 without anybody on the board falling out. sad smiley

 
Re: Skelton
AB (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 11:02
Feeling brave? What a stupid remark. Skelton played really well and takes 2/3 opposition member to stop him therefore opening up spaces for others in the team.

I, for one, will never forget his tackle on Samu Manoa last year -but then what would a mere supporter know? we bow down to your superior knowledge- NOT.

 
Re: Skelton
RustySword (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 11:27
Quote:
Roger G
Happy New Year all. I'd hoped we might at least make it through the first day of 2018 without anybody on the board falling out. sad smiley

There is always a common factor.

 
Re: Skelton
Adey (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 13:38
Quote:
AB
Feeling brave? What a stupid remark. Skelton played really well and takes 2/3 opposition member to stop him therefore opening up spaces for others in the team.
I, for one, will never forget his tackle on Samu Manoa last year -but then what would a mere supporter know? we bow down to your superior knowledge- NOT.

I didnít start the thread. Maynas did. I also only said I didnít rate him. My opinion. Maynas thinks heís useless. Didnít jump down his throat did you? A sherry or two too many last night was it sweetheart?!

If you want to sign a player based on one tackle then thatís why youíre only a mere supporter and not on the coaching staff. Skelton obviously impressed enough in his last spell to be signed for two years. I personally havenít seen it yet and donít understand why itís taken him so long to get up to speed. Heís not a youngster, heís not an unknown. Heís an established international. All you hear, apart from Maynas is how Ďheís getting thereí. He should be there by now!

 
Re: Skelton
Westrock (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 16:17
Maybe the arm he broke just before he came to us slowed down his progress/fitness

 
Re: Skelton
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 16:20
Adey I think that view possibly shows ignorance (or lack of knowledge as that's less inflammatory) about Skelton.

He may have been capped but he wasn't a regular feature in the Wallabies squad. Fitness and where to play him being part of the issue. When he came last time he worked with the S&C guys to get him to the right sort of level and unfortunately when he came this time that had to be done again. The better a handle he gets on that the more likely we are to see him more often and see contributions across 60 or even 80.

Most professional payers whatever their level or ability take a while to settle in.

 
Re: Skelton
Westrock (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 16:25
I thought he played well this week and the highlights programme shows he was well involved

 
Re: Skelton
tpr's headmistress (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 16:28
It took a while for Billy to get into shape, didn't it? If he can become as big an asset then give him the time.

 
Re: Skelton
RustySword (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 16:33
Quote:
tpr's headmistress
It took a while for Billy to get into shape, didn't it? If he can become as big an asset then give him the time.

True enough. BV was bit lardy when he came to us.

And as mentioned above, Skelly's broken arm might've impaired him just a tad when he arrived this season.

Anyhoo, if he's good enough for Small he's good enough for me.

 
Re: Skelton
Adey (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 17:07
18 caps in 2 years. Thatís fairly established as an international.

Billy wasnít capped when he came to us. He was out of shape and gave away penalties for fun when he was at Pests. It took a lot of hard work by all involved to realise his potential.

Thereís a reason Cheika wasnít bothered by Skelton coming to Premiership for a couple of years.

 
Re: Skelton
SBFez (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 19:13
To be fair he fits the Aussie mold well- unplayable on their day but inconsistent.

I think it's obvious to see he was a bit off the pace fitness wise- he is huge- lots to lug around, but with the right training and mentoring I see no reason he can't become an important part of the team.

His advantages as a ball carrier are obvious- he always attracts at least one tackler- but I also noted in the Worcester game numerous aggressive clean outs which I loved as it gave us quick ball. I think the coaching staff are probably teaching him how to use his size to an advantage for others as well as himself- as we've seen with the Vunipolas and how they are almost as dangerous as a decoy runner or providing a tip-on as they are carrying themselves.

Agreed you might expect more for an International, but I think especially with a full pre-season under him next year we will see the best of Skelton and it will hopefully all be worth it!

 
Re: Skelton
Wayoutwest (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 09:07
If he creates gaps wouldn't it be better if he came on as a finisher when players were tiring? The tackle he made against Toulon at AZP last year to stop them scoring probably contributed to us winning the European cup.

He is a good player finding his feet.

 
Re: Skelton
Essex-Sarrie (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 11:06
When Skelton returned to Waratahs* last season he received a lot of praise in Aus for how much his game had improved following his time with Sarries. His work ethic especially received praise.

I expect the same to happen again in a month or two, maybe it takes him a little longer to settle in that some others we've had but he is always improving that's good enough for me.

*Edited - Said Melbourne rather than Waratahs, my mistake.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2018 11:08 by Essex-Sarrie.

 
Re: Skelton
daz_71 (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 11:42
I agree with lots that has been said above - both positive and negative so I thought I might as well add my comments.....

Undoubtedly he has potential as a ball carrier but he seems to be taking the ball stationary which means he's an easy tackle target. That maybe to do with fitness. I feel our lineout is weakened when he plays - he's too big to lift. We can get away with it if Rhodes is playing as he give's us more lineout options.

Overall (in my opinion before anyone kills me) he's not mobile enough for our game. However I would have possibly said the same about Jim when he signed for us and that worked out OK.

If all our players are fit and not away on international duty he won't be a starter.

 
Re: Skelton
warwick5763 (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 12:45
I think he will be fine. I was a bit frustrated initially this season because he was throwing those rubbish super 14 passes on a hope and a prayer. Great when they come off but a disaster when they don't. I think its being worked out of him as he seems to have cut it out and not taking risks.

 
Re: Skelton
viewfromthe22 (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 13:42
I think it was Wray's 1st try Saturday. Wayward pass Skelton took above his head at full stretch, must be 8 feet up, takes the hit, recycles, we score. What's not to like.

 
Re: Skelton
VR1997 (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 15:16
Unfortunately new players to the first team have attracted this negativity from their detractors.

Will had a fine game on Saturday and Like Christopher Tolofua, Sean Maitland, Mike Rhodes
and Ben Spencer before him they have all had criticism from people on this board and are all imo fine players.

Everyone has an opinion and their is nothing wrong with constructive criticism but we should keep it at that.

 
Re: Skelton
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 17:43
Agree viewfromthe22. don't quite agree with warwick5763 about "rubbish super 14 passes" they could be a part of what makes him very good for us. Give him better, sharper support and they'll be a weapon in cracking open defences.

Quote:
VR1997
Everyone has an opinion and there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism but we should keep it at that.

Excellent point and I have been guilty of it and will try to mend my ways smiling smiley
Player A is rubbish - not acceptable.
Player B never looks to pass, I wish he would as it would make him a better player - acceptable!

 
Re: Skelton
Graeme D (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 22:54
Quote:
daz_71
. I feel our lineout is weakened when he plays - he's too big to lift .

Might be wrong but thought he was lifted halfway through the second half in one lineout.

 
Re: Skelton
Graeme D (IP Logged)
02 January, 2018 23:04
Premier rugby stats credit him with 5 lineout takes out of four starts so guess he is being lifted. He also lifts other players to possibly a highrr height than your average prop would.

Would like to see him taking the ball at speed and try and stay up longer after the tackle but don't think he is a weak link in the team .

 
Re: Skelton
nedrichards (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 17:51
Our feeling watching is always that we throw to him twice a game - mostly to keep the opposition honest and try and break tendencies. Strangely it almost always comes off, mostly in shock I'd imagine.

 
Re: Skelton
AP (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 14:08
Quote:
daz_71
I agree with lots that has been said above - both positive and negative so I thought I might as well add my comments.....
Undoubtedly he has potential as a ball carrier but he seems to be taking the ball stationary which means he's an easy tackle target. That maybe to do with fitness. I feel our lineout is weakened when he plays - he's too big to lift. We can get away with it if Rhodes is playing as he give's us more lineout options.

Overall (in my opinion before anyone kills me) he's not mobile enough for our game. However I would have possibly said the same about Jim when he signed for us and that worked out OK.

If all our players are fit and not away on international duty he won't be a starter.

My view pretty much too. I just feel he should be a bit better. But he wouldn't have been signed for this season if the coaches hadn't liked what they saw first time.



Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

 
Re: Skelton
Adey (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 22:08
Quote:
AB
Quote:
Adey
I donít rate him. Heís a recently capped international for one of the best teams in the world. He shouldnít need time to Ďget up to speedí.
Granted, it will take him a couple of weeks to learn the plays and patterns but a couple of months to get match fit is a joke. He came with a big reputation, heís not delivered.

Since when are you the judge and jury? Who cares whether you rate him or not? I would rather go with our coaches than rely on you!

Donít seem such a bad judge now. The big totty canít manage 50 minutes without blowing out of his behind and doesnít offer much in the way of ballast when the scrum is going backwards.

Still as long as you remember that tackle last season AB, it makes him a top class signing when he canít manage a full game and needs to be replaced by a hooker in a must win game.

 
Re: Skelton
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 22:38
We know he's not in shape to last a whole game. He is working with S&C and the fact he put in a 60 minute shift in which he got through lots of work says he's on the right track.

Anyone you do rate in the current set up or is your thing just posting about those who don't meet your expectations?

 
Re: Skelton
Adey (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 23:01
OM, you honestly believe thatís good enough? Itís mid way through January and heís still not match fit. Never mind Wyles being sin binned we were already down a man with him lumbering slowly from one breakdown to the next.

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