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Hartley's Jam
F-F-F-FEZ (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 18:09
Watched Saints Gloucs today and first congrats to Saints for the win - we know what it's like - BUT DH seems mightily out of sorts. How long can Yoda keep the faith I wonder? Time for our Jamie.

Other Jams are available (Sm6)

Hartley's Jam

Re: Hartley's Jam
Highbury Saracen (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 19:36
I watched game too & totally agree with you!
Saints put in a much improved performance not aided by Hartleys line out throws!

European champions 2016 & 2017

Re: Hartley's Jam
TheGent (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 20:24
Poor line out was down to our calling and glos doing their research.

Re: Hartley's Jam
Innings (IP Logged)
06 January, 2018 22:43
I'm not sure what he contributed in the loose either. He lurks a lot, but rarely seems to carry, make a first-up tackle. is often still in the outfield when there's a driving maul, and his guard work is distinctly unreliable. he must be an unbelievably good captain to justify his start despite all his manifest off-form efforts.


Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Hartley's Jam
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 10:04
he must be an unbelievably good captain to justify his start despite all his manifest off-form efforts.

He's not. Northamptons games where they have struggled he is anonymous. Ditto Englands games against Ireland and Italy. Most players can lead to one extent or another when the team is on the front foot. Proper leadership reveals itself when the team is under the pump.

Speaking of which many of our significant England wins have seen Hartley leave the field with England trailing. Farrell take over leadership and England win. Northampton won with him off the field yesterday too. One to ponder when considering how valuable his leadership is.

Re: Hartley's Jam
JO'G (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 12:39
the simple fact with Hartley is that pressure from the 3rd hooker - with both Taylor and LCD being injured for some while (I know LCD is back, but got injured straight away) - that means its really just him and Jamie

I agree generally that Hartley is a better starter - or Jamie a better finisher; so the combination that EJ uses makes sense.

Once there is a good 3rd option, I can see them coming in for Hartley with Jamie starting

Re: Hartley's Jam
OldMarovian (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 13:19
I've never really understood that logic JO'G.

Player B is better than player A. Player A plays 60 minutes and player B comes on for the last twenty because apparently the only thing worse than starting player A is expecting them to make an impact off the bench? (Sm147)

This starters finishers stuff is nonsense IMO. Your best players always start first in the most important games. Only exceptions would be where tactics dictate or for players who aren't capable of playing more than twenty to forty (arguably shouldn't be on the bench in that case because what do you do if the starter has an injury in the first minute?)

Re: Hartley's Jam
Innings (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 13:27
OM, I'd agree with you, but for the fact that EJ has stated, very frequently and clearly, that he sees Hartley as offering his captaincy as an essential ingredient. For all the reasons aired here, and in the Press, why Hartley should not be in the side at all, Jones has propounded his reasons for his decisions, and it would be difficult to argue with the results.


Points win matches: tries win hearts and minds.

Re: Hartley's Jam
Adey (IP Logged)
07 January, 2018 14:42
Agree that the whole ‘finishers’ thing is nonsense. Jamie at the moment is the better hooker and should be starting. Hartley’s leadership wasn’t so good when Italy played silly @#$%& at the breakdown last year was it?!

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